Danny Ainge handicapped the Celtics on his way out

Danny Ainge handicapped the Celtics on his way out

WEEI By Alex Reimer

Danny Ainge is responsible for quickly building the Celtics back into a contender following the departures of Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett. But he’s also responsible for their current middling predicament.

The Celtics are financially handicapped, forcing them to plan for an uninspiring and risky bridge year. The trouble began last offseason, when Ainge reportedly passed up a chance to swap Gordon Hayward for Myles Turner.

At the time, Hayward was hellbent on returning to Indiana, according to the Globe’s Gary Washburn. He said Packers were interested in a sign-and-trade, offering Turner and Doug McDermott for Hayward’s services.

The deal would’ve been a coup. Hayward was clearly declining as a player, and besides, he was going to leave anyway. Turner is a bonafide center and one of the best defenders at his position. He would’ve been a perfect fit for the Celtics, who lack a dependable big man.

It’s been one of their biggest flaws over the last five years.

But Ainge turned the deal down, and countered by asking for either Victor Oladipo or T.J. Warren to pair with Turner, Washburn reported. Unsurprisingly, the Pacers balked at the request. Oladipo is a two-time All-Star. Asking for both Oladipo and Turner was downright greedy — if it did indeed happen.

The Celtics eventually completed a sign-and-trade with the Hornets, sending Hayward to Charlotte for a conditional 2022 second-round pick. The big prize was their $28.5 million trade exception, the largest in NBA history.

Fast forward four months, and Ainge was under pressure to upgrade at the trade deadline. So he traded for sharp-shooter Evan Fournier, sending two second-round picks to Orlando. The price was minimal, because Fournier was in the final year of his deal.

But to acquire Fournier, the Celtics had to use $17 million of their historic trade exception, leaving them just over $11 million to play with. Fournier bolted in free agency, signing a four-year contract with the Knicks. The Celtics just didn’t have the money to keep him (his deal is worth $78 million).

Last weekend, the Celtics used the remaining portion of their exception to pick up veteran guard Josh Richardson, who’s nothing more than a mediocre rotational piece. Ainge could’ve turned Hayward into Turner. The Celtics settled for 14 games of Fournier and Richardson.

This is a big deal, because the Celtics could’ve even added more money onto their trade exception with the Kemba Walker trade. As MassLive’s Brian Robb notes, if the Celtics maintained their options, they could’ve mixed Al Horford’s salary ($27 million) into the exception. That would’ve given them $36 million to spend.

With that kind of cash, the Celtics could pick up any player in the league, including Bradley Beal, who’s due to earn $34.3 million this season.

Instead, the Celtics are left waiting for Beal to choose them on the free agent market next summer. It’s quite a Hail Mary.

Thanks, Danny.

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Packers? Hayward to replace the grumpy Aaron Rodgers?
Yes, Danny messed up the Hayward trade, and Brad has to clean up the mess.

Turner is a bonafide center and one of the best defenders at his position. He would’ve been a perfect fit for the Celtics, who lack a dependable big man.

Reportedly, nobody wanted Myles Turner, no other team. Danny asked around. We trade for him, we're stuck with him and his contract for years. That made it a no-go. This authors description of Turner sounds like hyperbole.

The Celtics eventually completed a sign-and-trade with the Hornets, sending Hayward to Charlotte for a conditional 2022 second-round pick. The big prize was their $28.5 million trade exception, the largest in NBA history.

Fast forward four months, and Ainge was under pressure to upgrade at the trade deadline. So he traded for sharp-shooter Evan Fournier, sending two second-round picks to Orlando. The price was minimal, because Fournier was in the final year of his deal.

This is a big deal, because the Celtics could’ve even added more money onto their trade exception with the Kemba Walker trade. As MassLive’s Brian Robb notes, if the Celtics maintained their options, they could’ve mixed Al Horford’s salary ($27 million) into the exception. That would’ve given them $36 million to spend.

Monday morning quarterbacking here. Adding Fournier and hoping Kemba could last through the playoffs was a good decision. You can't win it if you ain't in it. Then Jaylen Brown went down.

Lastly, Beal?

The whole article is quite a Hail Mary.

A lot of piling on here.

If Danny made a mistake with the Fournier trade it was by misjudging how much the Knicks would be willing to pay for him.  As I have mentioned in other threads Norman Powell resigned with Portland for less money and I consider Powell a better player than Fournier.  That either means Powell sold himself short or well-documented eejit James Dolan overpaid for Fournier (or I'm wrong about Powell being the better player, but I'm never wrong).  Which do you choose to believe?  That Norman Powell's agent didn't get him a fair deal or that James Dolan is an eejit (me being wrong isn't an option)?

If we got Turner in the trade RWill would never have blossomed because Turner would have gotten the start, the minutes and RWill would still be on his developmental treadmill.  One cannot demand "PLAY THE TIME LORD SO HE CAN DEVELOP!" and then say "we should have gone for a player who would have taken his minutes away from him.  That's Monday morning quarterbacking alright, but it's Monday morning quarterbacking yourself, not Danny.

Brown was out.  Kemba was out.  RWill was out.  That's 3 starters.  Expecting us to get past a healthy Brooklyn borders on a psychotic fantasy and seriously thinking that adding Myles Turner to the mix would have changed that outcome pushes it past the border and deep into the Land of Psycho Babble-on.


Bob


.

The Celtics lost quite a bit 5 minutes into GH first game.  Start there and work your way forward.  In the end GH never earned his salary because of injuries.  That was money not well spent but accidents happen and no one could have foreseen what happened to Gordon.

The Celtics made an offer to GH in FA but details have not been released.  We know now that GH wanted more so Danny went to plan B and tried to strong arm the Pacers.  

The deal was not overcooked because of Turner.  It was over cooked because Danny wanted more than just Turner.  He wanted an additional starter.  So that deal fell through and then Danny went to plan C.  He became a willing partner in the sign and trade with Charlotte.  So the Celtics get a historically large TPE and Danny sits on it for an eternity but not before he tells the world that the Celtics are not good enough to win and one of the owners concurs with that assessment.

So a chorus begins to build wanting Danny to use the TPE to get someone to make us a better team.

He uses a big chunk of it on EF who catches the rona before he can play and only plays in 16 games regular season game and 5 uneventful playoff games.

The Celtics knew that they probably would not be able to resign Fournier.  Did they expect him to reup for $12-13 million. That amount would have kept us below the tax line.  Let's be real.  The big concern for Boston going into the 2020-21 and beyond was the luxury tax.  They picked up Fournier as a rental and moved DT to save A few dollars more.  

So the way I see things as it relates to Danny Ainge, the big boo boo was signing KW.  Buyers remorse set in around March of last year.  Everything that is happening now including losing GH and splitting his TPE into back to back rentals years at some undesirable Airbnb, have a root cause in one really bad contract that Danny Ainge stuck the Celtics with.

Danny left Brad Stevens with a pile of do do to clean up.  He has already partially removed some of that pile but it is not all gone yet. The way I see it, Danny Ainge set this team back a couple of years.

I believe Danny became too cute.  He became full of himself that he could strong arm a team and get what he wants.  WRONG!   This has been coming to a head the last 2 years with Danny.  He started believing his own BS.

He hung onto too many rookies that he could have unloaded for some vet talent that the Celtics could have need, but did nothing.

How do you leave a team entering last season with such a shoot bench. It was a joke.

He 's gone and the ice jam is starting to break-up!  We Will slowly dig our way out of this mess and rise again in 2 LOOOONG YEARRRRS!

This sucks big time!

The strategy should be this > Build a great bench  players 6 thru 12 this year.  Role players that have no problem sticking to playing their role.  Defense, offense, ball pressure, whatever!  Then next year, you will be loaded for bear to get a top player in whatever position Brad feels we need.

Then you will be set for a run at #18.

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Whatever . . .

gyso wrote:Turner is a bonafide center and one of the best defenders at his position. He would’ve been a perfect fit for the Celtics, who lack a dependable big man.

Reportedly, nobody wanted Myles Turner, no other team.  Danny asked around.  We trade for him, we're stuck with him and his contract for years.  That made it a no-go.  This authors description of Turner sounds like hyperbole.

The Celtics eventually completed a sign-and-trade with the Hornets, sending Hayward to Charlotte for a conditional 2022 second-round pick. The big prize was their $28.5 million trade exception, the largest in NBA history.

Fast forward four months, and Ainge was under pressure to upgrade at the trade deadline. So he traded for sharp-shooter Evan Fournier, sending two second-round picks to Orlando. The price was minimal, because Fournier was in the final year of his deal.

This is a big deal, because the Celtics could’ve even added more money onto their trade exception with the Kemba Walker trade. As MassLive’s Brian Robb notes, if the Celtics maintained their options, they could’ve mixed Al Horford’s salary ($27 million) into the exception. That would’ve given them $36 million to spend.

Monday morning quarterbacking here.  Adding Fournier and hoping Kemba could last through the playoffs was a good decision.  You can't win it if you ain't in it.  Then Jaylen Brown went down.  

Lastly, Beal?  

The whole article is quite a Hail Mary.

Well, Drew Pearson managed to catch it and I do too. Bottom line is Danny F’ed it up. Welcome to the year of the Mystic River.

bobheckler wrote:A lot of piling on here.

If Danny made a mistake with the Fournier trade it was by misjudging how much the Knicks would be willing to pay for him.  As I have mentioned in other threads Norman Powell resigned with Portland for less money and I consider Powell a better player than Fournier.  That either means Powell sold himself short or well-documented eejit James Dolan overpaid for Fournier (or I'm wrong about Powell being the better player, but I'm never wrong).  Which do you choose to believe?  That Norman Powell's agent didn't get him a fair deal or that James Dolan is an eejit (me being wrong isn't an option)?

If we got Turner in the trade RWill would never have blossomed because Turner would have gotten the start, the minutes and RWill would still be on his developmental treadmill.  One cannot demand "PLAY THE TIME LORD SO HE CAN DEVELOP!" and then say "we should have gone for a player who would have taken his minutes away from him.  That's Monday morning quarterbacking alright, but it's Monday morning quarterbacking yourself, not Danny.

Brown was out.  Kemba was out.  RWill was out.  That's 3 starters.  Expecting us to get past a healthy Brooklyn borders on a psychotic fantasy and seriously thinking that adding Myles Turner to the mix would have changed that outcome pushes it past the border and deep into the Land of Psycho Babble-on.


Bob


.

I agree with your assessment of Rwill vs. Turner thinking future forward. But so far, Rwill hasn’t proven that he can stay on the court long enough to eliminate the need for a Turner. If RWill continues on the path of improvement we think he will, then you’re spot on. Problem is, if he does not which given past performance seems highly likely, then you’re dead wrong.

dboss wrote:The Celtics lost quite a bit 5 minutes into GH first game.  Start there and work your way forward.  In the end GH never earned his salary because of injuries.  That was money not well spent but accidents happen and no one could have foreseen what happened to Gordon.

The Celtics made an offer to GH in FA but details have not been released.  We know now that GH wanted more so Danny went to plan B and tried to strong arm the Pacers.  

The deal was not overcooked because of Turner.  It was over cooked because Danny wanted more than just Turner.  He wanted an additional starter.  So that deal fell through and then Danny went to plan C.  He became a willing partner in the sign and trade with Charlotte.  So the Celtics get a historically large TPE and Danny sits on it for an eternity but not before he tells the world that the Celtics are not good enough to win and one of the owners concurs with that assessment.

So a chorus begins to build wanting Danny to use the TPE to get someone to make us a better team.

He uses a big chunk of it on EF who catches the rona before he can play and only plays in 16 games regular season game and 5 uneventful playoff games.

The Celtics knew that they probably would not be able to resign Fournier.  Did they expect him to reup for $12-13 million.   That amount would have kept us below the tax line.   Let's be real.  The big concern for Boston going into the 2020-21 and beyond was the luxury tax.  They picked up Fournier as a rental and moved DT to save A few dollars more.  

So the way I see things as it relates to Danny Ainge, the big boo boo was signing KW.  Buyers remorse set in around March of last year.  Everything that is happening now including losing GH and splitting his TPE into back to back rentals years at some undesirable Airbnb, have a root cause in one really bad contract that Danny Ainge stuck the Celtics with.

Danny left Brad Stevens with a pile of do do to clean up.  He has already partially removed some of that pile but it is not all gone yet.  The way I see it, Danny Ainge set this team back a couple of years.

Exactamundo!

Just my 2 cents:

1) Yes, these last few years Danny screwed up. That is why he is out. His mis-steps include Kyrie trade, Kemba signing (biggest mistake), letting Hayward walk and not adding better help at 5 during the 19-20 season.

2) Before that Danny did a great job.

3) Even now, we may reap the benefits of his Sam Hinkie moves: drafting RWill, Langford and Nesmith, all injured players coming out of college. Too bad that NBA is not forgiving of long term views strategically.

I just think that Danny lost sight of the competitive goal and got a little too enamored by the asset development and management. We kept falling just short of the competitive threshold.

Excellent analysis prakash.

By the way, I always pray for cash.

worcester wrote:Excellent analysis prakash.

By the way, I always pray for cash.

The only thing I disagree with is that signing Kemba was the biggest mistake. The biggest mistake was trading for Kyrie, and then not understanding that Kyrie had no intention of signing with the Celtics. Please don't tell me I am Captain Hindsight. I am just a fan, but even I could see that trading for Kyrie was questionable, and it immediately became apparent to anyone paying attention that Kyrie was a bad fit and was unhappy in Boston. Signing Kemba was just an attempt to make up for the disastrous KI signing. Ainge's job was to understand this shite, and he totally botched it. Not only was Kyrie a disappointment, the way Danny handled IT essentially drove Anthony Davis away. I love Danny as a player and mostly as a GM, but the Kyrie trade was his undoing. It really was a disaster.

The bottom line is that the Celtics have to move on.

Yes Danny made one or more blunders but he also struck gold in the draft.

The core today are all homegrown guys drafted by Danny.

Shamrock1000 wrote:

worcester wrote:Excellent analysis prakash.

By the way, I always pray for cash.

The only thing I disagree with is that signing Kemba was the biggest mistake. The biggest mistake was trading for Kyrie, and then not understanding that Kyrie had no intention of signing with the Celtics. Please don't tell me I am Captain Hindsight. I am just a fan, but even I could see that trading for Kyrie was questionable, and it immediately became apparent to anyone paying attention that Kyrie was a bad fit and was unhappy in Boston. Signing Kemba was just an attempt to make up for the disastrous KI signing. Ainge's job was to understand this shite, and he totally botched it. Not only was Kyrie a disappointment, the way Danny handled IT essentially drove Anthony Davis away. I love Danny as a player and mostly as a GM, but the Kyrie trade was his undoing. It really was a disaster.

GM is a tough job, a lot of moves you won’t know until a few years whether they work out or not, and ofcourse some you can see in a few months. Danny was hoping certain players bought into the Celtic Mystique, like earlier generations before Danny and even when Danny played. He had the magic with the KG and Ray Allen acquisitions, then the best players figured out how to do it themselves without management. A lot of that was because of Danny’s bold moves and he even had the magic with the Nets fleecing. Getting Kyrie looked brilliant at the time, and getting on cusp of Finals without Kyrie and GH was a thrill ride. If GH never gets injured and then having too many internal problems the next year, still dealing with the injury, everything might have been very different and we are still praising Danny. Really tough making the right moves to stay at the top, he tried, nothing is easy in basketball and life.

cowens/oldschool wrote:

Shamrock1000 wrote:

worcester wrote:Excellent analysis prakash.

By the way, I always pray for cash.

The only thing I disagree with is that signing Kemba was the biggest mistake. The biggest mistake was trading for Kyrie, and then not understanding that Kyrie had no intention of signing with the Celtics. Please don't tell me I am Captain Hindsight. I am just a fan, but even I could see that trading for Kyrie was questionable, and it immediately became apparent to anyone paying attention that Kyrie was a bad fit and was unhappy in Boston. Signing Kemba was just an attempt to make up for the disastrous KI signing. Ainge's job was to understand this shite, and he totally botched it. Not only was Kyrie a disappointment, the way Danny handled IT essentially drove Anthony Davis away. I love Danny as a player and mostly as a GM, but the Kyrie trade was his undoing. It really was a disaster.

GM is a tough job, a lot of moves you won’t know until a few years whether they work out or not, and ofcourse some you can see in a few months. Danny was hoping certain players bought into the Celtic Mystique, like earlier generations before Danny and even when Danny played. He had the magic with the KG and Ray Allen acquisitions, then the best players figured out how to do it themselves without management. A lot of that was because of Danny’s bold moves and he even had the magic with the Nets fleecing. Getting Kyrie looked brilliant at the time, and getting on cusp of Finals without Kyrie and GH was a thrill ride. If GH never gets injured and then having too many internal problems the next year, still dealing with the injury, everything might have been very different and we are still praising Danny. Really tough making the right moves to stay at the top, he tried, nothing is easy in basketball and life.

+1 This whole Monday quarterbacking thing leaves me cold. Ainge is gone. Time to move on. He couldn't know GH would break his ankle. Then by the time he was fully healthy again he was third or fourth scoring option. So he moved on. He didn't know Walker's knee would go south or that Thomas's hip would largely end his career. He thought Irving was a superstar. He turned out to be a super ass. Woulda, coulda, etc. Boston is not LA or NY, where superstars come to see their name up in lights and get their friends to join them. So we have a team of very promising young players that we got the hard way--we drafted them. Who drafted them? DA.

The fickle nature of media and fans.

Almost every move that Ainge is now being shot down over was universally cheered at the time it was made.

If a player breaks down, is it on the GM or player? In GH’s case it was an unforeseen freak injury. Seeing how well we crushed Lakers by 30 with a healthy GH and Kemba in the first Celtic vs Laker game in 19-20, Ainge looked like a genius. But then the season took its toll, neither guy was healthy for a deep playoff run.