Player Improvements Needed

Player Improvements needed (pecking order)

Jayson

Jayson Tatum had a great year.  He won an Olympic Gold Medal this past summer and made the All NBA first team and he was an allstar for the 3rd time in his career (consecutive selections.  This was his 5th year in the league and he is getting better.  He posted career highs in Points, Assists, Rebounds and FT attempts.
 
As a fan, what I would like to see from him on offense is less ISO and more movement.  Use more screens to free up your shot.  He did more play making this year but even more so in the playoffs.

He handled the ball more and recorded 6.2 assists during the playoffs but he also turned the ball over 4.2 times per game.  Some of it was unforced passing turnovers and dribbling turnovers where he lost control of his handle or drove into a crowded area.  His decision making can best be improved when he knows when to get off the ball and when his shot selection reflects how he is being defended and what the team needs on a particular possession.  Defensively my only gripe is about his transition defense as he tends to play at half speed.  I want to see less demonstrative hands thrown in the air when a play does not go his way.  Way too much bantering with the refs. He recorded a career high of 13 technical fouls this year.  He has a total of 30 over 5 years.  

I have a high degree of confidence and a high level of expectation wrapped around a realistic measurement of certainty  (k-t-r-o-n) that he can make progress in those area.

Jaylen

Jaylen Brown  had a very good year.  His scoring however was down 1.1 PPG and his shooting was also down especially from deep.  His assists numbers and rebounding numbers were up a tick.  He recorded his first 2 triple doubles this year.  

Jaylen was 20th in scoring this year among all players.
 
Jaylen had some hamstring and knee issues that slowed him down this year and the hammy in particular appears to be a recurring injury because that same hammy shut him down for the playoffs last season.

Jaylen also made strides into becoming more of a playmaker but with no statistical improvement.
 
During the playoffs him and  his running mate Tatum were solid on defense as they were also during the regular season.  However just like Tatum he was inflicted with the turnover bug.
I would like to see him focus his attention on his handle, his decision making and his FT shooting.
He shot 75.8% during the regular season but I think his goal should be to crack 80%.  He had a few strange outings this season where he appeared to be disconnected to what was happening on the court.  Did not happen a lot but there were a few games where I was wondering where the hell his mind was.

Rob

Robert Williams is in my opinion the 3rd best player on this team so I am putting him here.  This was Rob's first year as a fulltime starting center and he did not disappoint.

Rob posted career highs in game played, minutes,  points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals, FG% and FT %.   It seems the sports writers just talk about his rim protection and his vertical game on offense but they seem to miss his passing, screen setting and pace that he plays with at both ends of the court.  

Late in the season, he was limited in the playoffs because of the meniscus surgery.

If there was some way he could play more games, that would probably be the biggest improvement that we could want.  However he plays with tremendous force and energy which probably makes him more susceptible to nagging injuries.  During this off season he needs to keep working on his body by doing all the exercises and reps that his trainer (s) task him with.

On the court, we want to see his offensive game add an away from the rim option.  He has the skill to knock down midrange shots.  In our offense, elbow jumpers are there for the taking and at the foul line area and on the baselines in that 12 foot range, he needs reps and a lot of them so that he feels confident in taking those looks.

Defensively he is on par with Smart as our best defender IMO.  He just needs to keep working on his defensive reads.

Marcus

Marcus finally got recognized as the top defensive player in the NBA.  That is huge for a guy like him who prides himself on playing defensive.

Other noticeable accomplishments was him recording career highs in total points scored and in assists.

He also set a new mark in career starts 71 games out of 71 games played.
He demanded the PG job.  This was his first season where he was not the BU PG.  He did a good job at point as evidenced by his 5.9 APG career high.  Last year he averaged 5.7 APG so the YOY improvement does not exactly jump off the page.
 
Marcus had some really great games at PG and also some really poor games.  From game to game I honestly did not know which Marcus would show up. Defensively he was solid but as an everyday PG responsible for running the offense he still has a long ways to go.

If he can improve and that is a big if for a 28 year old in his prime who has 8 years in, he should think about his job as a full time PG during this offseason.

Marcus can best help this team when he reduces the number of 3 point shots that he launches. When he takes shots within the flow of the offense when the ball is popping, he is at his best.  But when he goes off the reservation like he did down the stretch in the Miami game 7 closeout he undermines his responsibilities to create offense by running plays to get the ball to our best scorers.

He needs to know who he is and not who he would like to be.

Al

Al Horford was the biggest surprise that I had of any player on the team.

He had a very impressive regular season and followed that up with a tremendous playoff run.
I had my doubts that our 2 big lineup would be effective but it was except for the GS finals. Nevertheless he did his job and did it well.

Derrick

Derrick White did a fairly good job as a facilitator and defending in our switch almost everything defensive schemes.

He was a complete dud on offense.  No one expected him to be a shot creator for himself.  We just needed him to knock down wide open looks.  He could not do that for us.  Part of his issue was clearly a lack of confidence in taking shots even though no defense was close by.  That lack of confidence stems from  the fact that he knows damn well that he is NOT a reliable shooter.

During this off season, he should work diligently on shooting 3 pointers from everywhere on the court.  I hope that if he focuses on that he can come back next year and improve his shooting.

Grant

Grant played well for us this year but not well enough to earn an extension.  

He needs to work on all aspects of his game but we have to be realistic.  He has become a pretty reliable catch and shoot guy but he cannot get that opportunity unless somebody sets him up.  I did see more off the bounce drives this year but that clearly is not his strength.  He needs to really work on his rebounding.  3.6 regular season and 3.8 in the playoffs is subpar for a PF.  He has a real strong body but still has not learned to own the position under the glass.   think he needs to keep working on his positioning techniques and reads (where and how the ball is coming off the glass)

I would also like to see him be more mindful of those off the ball fouls.  Lastly, he talks too much and argues with the refs.
 
Peyton

Peyton looks more and more like a one trick pony.  He can make 3 points shots.  he did not shoot well in the playoffs but he did during the regular season.  Ime had a quicker trigger to take him out if he was not shooting well from the start.  One thing that may have gone unnoticed is the pace that he plays with in getting the ball up the court.  His on the ball defense is good but he is most vulnerable if he has to switch onto a bigger player.  Peyton I a good player but he does not seem to have the skills to be a natural playmaking PG.  High ceiling for him would be a Patty Mills guy and the low ceiling is nothing close to being a Patty Mills.

Aaron

Aaron Nesmith had a very disappointing second year.  His opportunities were characterized by limited playing time because he could not make shots.  It is quite simple.  If he makes a shot or two his playing time gets extended.  Ime has zero patience with his inability to make shots.  Defensively he has been a physical, sometimes over aggressive reactionary guy who still goes at 70 MPH in a 45 MPH speed zone.  But he is a good defender and a very good rebounder.  His physical abilities are right there.

It is all in his head..missing shots and then trying harder and then the technical breakdowns.

I think he is in a do better or get lost situation going into year 3.
 
He has to work on his shooting and his confidence.  He needs to stop thinking about shooting and missing and just shoot the damn ball without thinking about it.  reps reps reps reps establish muscle/brain memory so just stop thinking so much.

Daniel

Daniel Theis was traded for by Brad at a salary that defies logic.  Remember when Danny did not resign him because it was going to cost around $5 million.

His playing time during 21 regular season games was 18.7 MPG where he produced 7.9 PPG and 3.6  rebounds.  His off rating was only 104.4 and his def rating was 108.4  That translate into a negative net rating of 3.4  During the playoff he became unplayable even in some games where Rob did not play.

He did play in 16 of our 24 playoff games while logging 12.5 MPG.  He averaged 4.3 points and 3.3 rebounds.  He had a very poor showing posting an offensive rating of 102 and a defensive rating of 110.8.  His net rating was -8.4  This is why Ime did not use him that much.  He only played 2 games during the GS series.

There is nothing good that can come from me pretending that improvement can be realized.  
Good luck trying to move him his $17.8 million guaranteed salary remaining over the next two years.

Sam

Sam Houser can make catch and shoot shots but his defense is not on an NBA level mainly because his is S-L-O-W
 
Everybody else

They all get an incomplete because they were only added because Brad needed to fill roster spots.

Dboss I believe it was the wrist that shut JB down in 21.

dboss,

You put a lot of thought and hard work into that post. Great job!

Regards

cowens/oldschool wrote:Dboss I believe it was the wrist that shut JB down in 21.

Cow

You are correct. I was thinking the Hammy but he did have a hammy issue last year and this year where he came back too soon.

NYCelt wrote:dboss,

You put a lot of thought and hard work into that post. Great job!

Regards

Thanks, still pretty vanilla so I anticipate additional comments to add more context.

We had an amazing year and should be a very strong team next season.

dboss wrote:Player Improvements needed (pecking order)

Jayson

Jayson Tatum had a great year.  He won an Olympic Gold Medal this past summer and made the All NBA first team and he was an allstar for the 3rd time in his career (consecutive selections.  This was his 5th year in the league and he is getting better.  He posted career highs in Points, Assists, Rebounds and FT attempts.
 
As a fan, what I would like to see from him on offense is less ISO and more movement.  Use more screens to free up your shot.  He did more play making this year but even more so in the playoffs.

He handled the ball more and recorded 6.2 assists during the playoffs but he also turned the ball over 4.2 times per game.  Some of it was unforced passing turnovers and dribbling turnovers where he lost control of his handle or drove into a crowded area.  His decision making can best be improved when he knows when to get off the ball and when his shot selection reflects how he is being defended and what the team needs on a particular possession.  Defensively my only gripe is about his transition defense as he tends to play at half speed.  I want to see less demonstrative hands thrown in the air when a play does not go his way.  Way too much bantering with the refs. He recorded a career high of 13 technical fouls this year.  He has a total of 30 over 5 years.  

I have a high degree of confidence and a high level of expectation wrapped around a realistic measurement of certainty  (k-t-r-o-n) that he can make progress in those area.

Jaylen

Jaylen Brown  had a very good year.  His scoring however was down 1.1 PPG and his shooting was also down especially from deep.  His assists numbers and rebounding numbers were up a tick.  He recorded his first 2 triple doubles this year.  

Jaylen was 20th in scoring this year among all players.
 
Jaylen had some hamstring and knee issues that slowed him down this year and the hammy in particular appears to be a recurring injury because that same hammy shut him down for the playoffs last season.

Jaylen also made strides into becoming more of a playmaker but with no statistical improvement.
 
During the playoffs him and  his running mate Tatum were solid on defense as they were also during the regular season.  However just like Tatum he was inflicted with the turnover bug.
I would like to see him focus his attention on his handle, his decision making and his FT shooting.
He shot 75.8% during the regular season but I think his goal should be to crack 80%.  He had a few strange outings this season where he appeared to be disconnected to what was happening on the court.  Did not happen a lot but there were a few games where I was wondering where the hell his mind was.

Rob

Robert Williams is in my opinion the 3rd best player on this team so I am putting him here.  This was Rob's first year as a fulltime starting center and he did not disappoint.

Rob posted career highs in game played, minutes,  points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals, FG% and FT %.   It seems the sports writers just talk about his rim protection and his vertical game on offense but they seem to miss his passing, screen setting and pace that he plays with at both ends of the court.  

Late in the season, he was limited in the playoffs because of the meniscus surgery.

If there was some way he could play more games, that would probably be the biggest improvement that we could want.  However he plays with tremendous force and energy which probably makes him more susceptible to nagging injuries.  During this off season he needs to keep working on his body by doing all the exercises and reps that his trainer (s) task him with.

On the court, we want to see his offensive game add an away from the rim option.  He has the skill to knock down midrange shots.  In our offense, elbow jumpers are there for the taking and at the foul line area and on the baselines in that 12 foot range, he needs reps and a lot of them so that he feels confident in taking those looks.

Defensively he is on par with Smart as our best defender IMO.  He just needs to keep working on his defensive reads.

Marcus

Marcus finally got recognized as the top defensive player in the NBA.  That is huge for a guy like him who prides himself on playing defensive.

Other noticeable accomplishments was him recording career highs in total points scored and in assists.

He also set a new mark in career starts 71 games out of 71 games played.
He demanded the PG job.  This was his first season where he was not the BU PG.  He did a good job at point as evidenced by his 5.9 APG career high.  Last year he averaged 5.7 APG so the YOY improvement does not exactly jump off the page.
 
Marcus had some really great games at PG and also some really poor games.  From game to game I honestly did not know which Marcus would show up. Defensively he was solid but as an everyday PG responsible for running the offense he still has a long ways to go.

If he can improve and that is a big if for a 28 year old in his prime who has 8 years in, he should think about his job as a full time PG during this offseason.

Marcus can best help this team when he reduces the number of 3 point shots that he launches. When he takes shots within the flow of the offense when the ball is popping, he is at his best.  But when he goes off the reservation like he did down the stretch in the Miami game 7 closeout he undermines his responsibilities to create offense by running plays to get the ball to our best scorers.

He needs to know who he is and not who he would like to be.

Al

Al Horford was the biggest surprise that I had of any player on the team.

He had a very impressive regular season and followed that up with a tremendous playoff run.
I had my doubts that our 2 big lineup would be effective but it was except for the GS finals. Nevertheless he did his job and did it well.

Derrick

Derrick White did a fairly good job as a facilitator and defending in our switch almost everything defensive schemes.

He was a complete dud on offense.  No one expected him to be a shot creator for himself.  We just needed him to knock down wide open looks.  He could not do that for us.  Part of his issue was clearly a lack of confidence in taking shots even though no defense was close by.  That lack of confidence stems from  the fact that he knows damn well that he is NOT a reliable shooter.

During this off season, he should work diligently on shooting 3 pointers from everywhere on the court.  I hope that if he focuses on that he can come back next year and improve his shooting.

Grant

Grant played well for us this year but not well enough to earn an extension.  

He needs to work on all aspects of his game but we have to be realistic.  He has become a pretty reliable catch and shoot guy but he cannot get that opportunity unless somebody sets him up.  I did see more off the bounce drives this year but that clearly is not his strength.  He needs to really work on his rebounding.  3.6 regular season and 3.8 in the playoffs is subpar for a PF.  He has a real strong body but still has not learned to own the position under the glass.   think he needs to keep working on his positioning techniques and reads (where and how the ball is coming off the glass)

I would also like to see him be more mindful of those off the ball fouls.  Lastly, he talks too much and argues with the refs.
 
Peyton

Peyton looks more and more like a one trick pony.  He can make 3 points shots.  he did not shoot well in the playoffs but he did during the regular season.  Ime had a quicker trigger to take him out if he was not shooting well from the start.  One thing that may have gone unnoticed is the pace that he plays with in getting the ball up the court.  His on the ball defense is good but he is most vulnerable if he has to switch onto a bigger player.  Peyton I a good player but he does not seem to have the skills to be a natural playmaking PG.  High ceiling for him would be a Patty Mills guy and the low ceiling is nothing close to being a Patty Mills.

Aaron

Aaron Nesmith had a very disappointing second year.  His opportunities were characterized by limited playing time because he could not make shots.  It is quite simple.  If he makes a shot or two his playing time gets extended.  Ime has zero patience with his inability to make shots.  Defensively he has been a physical, sometimes over aggressive reactionary guy who still goes at 70 MPH in a 45 MPH speed zone.  But he is a good defender and a very good rebounder.  His physical abilities are right there.

It is all in his head..missing shots and then trying harder and then the technical breakdowns.

I think he is in a do better or get lost situation going into year 3.
 
He has to work on his shooting and his confidence.  He needs to stop thinking about shooting and missing and just shoot the damn ball without thinking about it.  reps reps reps reps establish muscle/brain memory so just stop thinking so much.

Daniel

Daniel Theis was traded for by Brad at a salary that defies logic.  Remember when Danny did not resign him because it was going to cost around $5 million.

His playing time during 21 regular season games was 18.7 MPG where he produced 7.9 PPG and 3.6  rebounds.  His off rating was only 104.4 and his def rating was 108.4  That translate into a negative net rating of 3.4  During the playoff he became unplayable even in some games where Rob did not play.

He did play in 16 of our 24 playoff games while logging 12.5 MPG.  He averaged 4.3 points and 3.3 rebounds.  He had a very poor showing posting an offensive rating of 102 and a defensive rating of 110.8.  His net rating was -8.4  This is why Ime did not use him that much.  He only played 2 games during the GS series.

There is nothing good that can come from me pretending that improvement can be realized.  
Good luck trying to move him his $17.8 million guaranteed salary remaining over the next two years.

Sam

Sam Houser can make catch and shoot shots but his defense is not on an NBA level mainly because his is S-L-O-W
 
Everybody else

They all get an incomplete because they were only added because Brad needed to fill roster spots.

Dboss, you've obviously put a lot of thought in crafting this. I dont quite know if you qualify as a scout but it wouldnt hurt you to apply. (I believe there is a job posting on Indeed that's set to expire 7/1/22 so hurry up!)

I agree with a lot of your opinions here but i still want to know how one can be certain that a player is going to improve, remain stagnate or is headed fror the scrap heap.
I have a high degree of confidence and a high level of expectation wrapped around a realistic measurement of certainty  (k-t-r-o-n) that he can make progress in those area.

Your statement above might want to end with a period after the word expectation. What is a "realistic measurement of certainty"? In my opinion you're either certain or not certain and in this case as with other players, Regardless of age, years in league etc., no one can be certain that one
will improve or not. Even though you didnt apply certaincy to Theis, we dont know if he can improve yet you appear pretty sure that he won't. Theres a good chance here that you are right or wrong.

Okay, enough with the nit picking.

I stated that I agree with most of what you posted here but there are a few that I disagree with.

(1) Rob is the 3rd best player on this team. At first i thought you meant the 3rd most important player and then I thought-I disagree with that premise as well.
There is no way that Rob is better than Marcus, outside of blocking shots (maybe a slight edge in rebounding) Marcus can do more on the court and with the ball than Rob is currently doing. Smart shoots the ball better, (Rob doesnt shoot very much at all). Smart is a better all around defender and Smart also orchestrates the offense. Rob may very well extend to #3 if he's able to add and improve in the areas that you outlined but right now Smart is #3 IMO.

#2 Grant played well but not well enough to get an extension. I believe he has played well enough to EARN an extension. We shall see. The areas of improvement that you outlined are spot on as well as the mention of his perpetual bitching to the referees.
Does he talk too much? Who knows. None of us certainly (theres that word again) know. I believe that its up to the coach and his teammates on whether he yaps too much. Maybe you have the bench and locker room bugged and if so i apologize. If not, you dont know any more than we do concerning Grant's yapping.

#3 I realy like PP but i dont think you can utter his name and Patty Mills name in comparison. I'm not "certain" but I do believe that he doesnt have the skill set to get to Patti Level. see: a diminutive version of the other Pat on Milwaukee may be close. Or not.

In summation, your report cards and player evaluations deserve an applause (not quite a standing ovation-yet). You obviously put a lot of work and thought into it. You took the time out of your very busy day to put in the work without compensation. Applause doesnt put food on the table or beer in the ice box so I again urge you to apply for that scouting job that's posted on indeed. Hurry up. It expires at midnight July 1. Hurry up!!!
Thats is all......

Ktron

I did my best to embellish just for you.

ktron

Let me respond to your response.

I stand by my comment that Rob is our 3rd best player.  I should have put Smart at #5 behind AH.

As far as Grant is concerned I would be very surprised if he got an extension.  His starting point was so low that almost any improvement greatly exaggerates his YOY percentage improvement.  He has earned not getting cut.  If he had rebounded better and played better defense I might feel differently. The Celtics are in no danger of losing him next year or anticipating that he will ascend to a level where a bidding war could take place.  Unlike Jaylen, Jayson and Rob.

With regards to Patty Mills, you are totally missing the point.  I was not comparing PP to Patti Mills.  I was only using Patty Mills as an example of what a high ceiling for PP would be.  In other words if he could be compared to a Patty Mills it would be a high ceiling for PP.

By the way I put this post together based on observations that I have made and spoken about during the season.  As you know I am retired and independently wealthy so I have  extra time on my hands.  But if you think I should get some type of compensation you can zelle me a few bucks!

The Celtics are in no danger of losing him next year or anticipating that he will ascend to a level where a bidding war could take place. Unlike Jaylen, Jayson and Rob.

There you go again.. oh well. Independently wealthy people can be sooo stubborn!
No! Go to Zelle! I’m not sending you one red cent. LOL!

Ktron wrote:The Celtics are in no danger of losing him next year or anticipating that he will ascend to a level where a bidding war could take place.  Unlike Jaylen, Jayson and Rob.

There you go again.. oh well. Independently wealthy people can be sooo stubborn!
No! Go to Zelle! I’m not sending you one red cent. LOL!

Put you money where your mouth.

I bet you $ that Grant does not get an extension. My side gig!

Fill in your wager and I will respond.

dboss wrote:

Ktron wrote:The Celtics are in no danger of losing him next year or anticipating that he will ascend to a level where a bidding war could take place.  Unlike Jaylen, Jayson and Rob.

There you go again.. oh well. Independently wealthy people can be sooo stubborn!
No! Go to Zelle! I’m not sending you one red cent. LOL!

Put you money  where your mouth.

I bet you $ that Grant does not get an extension. My side gig!

Fill in your wager and I will respond.

You’re independently wealthy so I see a winning Lotto ticket in my future. I’ll wager $100,000! Cmon here!!

Ktron wrote:

dboss wrote:

Ktron wrote:The Celtics are in no danger of losing him next year or anticipating that he will ascend to a level where a bidding war could take place.  Unlike Jaylen, Jayson and Rob.

There you go again.. oh well. Independently wealthy people can be sooo stubborn!
No! Go to Zelle! I’m not sending you one red cent. LOL!

Put you money  where your mouth.

I bet you $ that Grant does not get an extension. My side gig!

Fill in your wager and I will respond.

You’re independently wealthy so I see a winning Lotto ticket in my future. I’ll wager $100,000! Cmon here!!

funny

Truth be told anything can happen.

Maybe if they give him a rookie extension he would be more attractive when the Celtics trade him.

In any event, new money will not kick in until next season which should provide an adequate timeline to engage in some depressing form of buyer's remorse!

dboss wrote:

Ktron wrote:

dboss wrote:

Ktron wrote:The Celtics are in no danger of losing him next year or anticipating that he will ascend to a level where a bidding war could take place.  Unlike Jaylen, Jayson and Rob.

There you go again.. oh well. Independently wealthy people can be sooo stubborn!
No! Go to Zelle! I’m not sending you one red cent. LOL!

Put you money  where your mouth.

I bet you $ that Grant does not get an extension. My side gig!

Fill in your wager and I will respond.

You’re independently wealthy so I see a winning Lotto ticket in my future. I’ll wager $100,000! Cmon here!!

funny

Truth be told anything can happen.  

Maybe if they give him a rookie extension he would be more attractive when the Celtics trade him.

In any event, new money will  not kick in until next season which should provide an adequate timeline to engage in some depressing form of buyer's remorse!

LOL!

I agree with much of what DBoss wrote, no point in my going over all of it.

I would say that RWill has already shown he can hit frito line jumpers, he just needs to take 1-2 a game to bring the defense out to him, like what Max did towards the end of his career.

Payton might be a one-trick pony but it's not a bad trick.  Patty Mills just signed a 2 year contract at almost age 34 with that same one trick.  In fact Patty Mills has only had two seasons in his long career in which he shot from 3 better than Payton's career 3pt fg% and one of those years he only took four 3pt fgas (his rookie year, he shot 2-4).  Patty's career 3pt fg% is well below Payton's.  As a floor general Payton's assist numbers per minute are already better than Patty's and the game is still a little fast for Payton.  It will only slow down with time and experience.  There is no position with a longer learning curve than point guard.  My beef with Payton, and this might go hand-in-glove with his youth and lack of experience, is that he isn't consistently aggressive.  He passes up shots he should take because he defers to the Js or whomever.  He's one of those players that if he can see the basket he can make the basket.  He needs to keep that in mind every second he's on the floor.  Ime's trying to groom everybody to be a facilitator, like Pop, have everybody moving or passing and I think that's making Payton think too much.  "What should I do?  Should I drive or pass or...?"  Shoot.  That's what you should do.  You should shoot if you are open.  Worry about being the next Chris Paul when your mind gets there, it'll let you know when it's ready.  This could be the year though.  It'll be Payton's 3rd year, that's a big growth year for players who make it in the NBA, and our deep playoff run must have opened his eyes and slowed down his mind some.


Bob


.

bobheckler wrote:I agree with much of what DBoss wrote, no point in my going over all of it.

I would say that RWill has already shown he can hit frito line jumpers, he just needs to take 1-2 a game to bring the defense out to him, like what Max did towards the end of his career.

Payton might be a one-trick pony but it's not a bad trick.  Patty Mills just signed a 2 year contract at almost age 34 with that same one trick.  In fact Patty Mills has only had two seasons in his long career in which he shot from 3 better than Payton's career 3pt fg% and one of those years he only took four 3pt fgas (his rookie year, he shot 2-4).  Patty's career 3pt fg% is well below Payton's.  As a floor general Payton's assist numbers per minute are already better than Patty's and the game is still a little fast for Payton.  It will only slow down with time and experience.  There is no position with a longer learning curve than point guard.  My beef with Payton, and this might go hand-in-glove with his youth and lack of experience, is that he isn't consistently aggressive.  He passes up shots he should take because he defers to the Js or whomever.  He's one of those players that if he can see the basket he can make the basket.  He needs to keep that in mind every second he's on the floor.  Ime's trying to groom everybody to be a facilitator, like Pop, have everybody moving or passing and I think that's making Payton think too much.  "What should I do?  Should I drive or pass or...?"  Shoot.  That's what you should do.  You should shoot if you are open.  Worry about being the next Chris Paul when your mind gets there, it'll let you know when it's ready.  This could be the year though.  It'll be Payton's 3rd year, that's a big growth year for players who make it in the NBA, and our deep playoff run must have opened his eyes and slowed down his mind some.


Bob

.

Bob

I agree with everything that you said here. RW shot 72% from the line this year and was pure money during the playoffs at 89.3% He has great mechanics. I think the coaches have to push him more to attempt those midrange shoots.

I really like PP. He really is a terrific shooter. I did not put forth an action plan but you did and you nailed it.

He defers too much to other guys that are not nearly as accurate when shooting the ball. Yes,he needs to be aggressive but coach Ime also needs to give him some space to shoot and miss and not be sent back to the bench.

[quote="bobheckler"]I agree with much of what DBoss wrote, no point in my going over all of it.

I would say that RWill has already shown he can hit frito line jumpers, he just needs to take 1-2 a game to bring the defense out to him, like what Max did towards the end of his career.

Payton might be a one-trick pony but it's not a bad trick.  Patty Mills just signed a 2 year contract at almost age 34 with that same one trick.  In fact Patty Mills has only had two seasons in his long career in which he shot from 3 better than Payton's career 3pt fg% and one of those years he only took four 3pt fgas (his rookie year, he shot 2-4).  Patty's career 3pt fg% is well below Payton's.  As a floor general Payton's assist numbers per minute are already better than Patty's and the game is still a little fast for Payton.  It will only slow down with time and experience.  There is no position with a longer learning curve than point guard.  My beef with Payton, and this might go hand-in-glove with his youth and lack of experience, is that he isn't consistently aggressive.  He passes up shots he should take because he defers to the Js or whomever.  He's one of those players that if he can see the basket he can make the basket.  He needs to keep that in mind every second he's on the floor.  Ime's trying to groom everybody to be a facilitator, like Pop, have everybody moving or passing and I think that's making Payton think too much.  "What should I do?  Should I drive or pass or...?"  Shoot.  That's what you should do.  You should shoot if you are open.  Worry about being the next Chris Paul when your mind gets there, it'll let you know when it's ready.  This could be the year though.  It'll be Payton's 3rd year, that's a big growth year for players who make it in the NBA, and our deep playoff run must have opened his eyes and slowed down his mind some.


Bob


.[/quote You're comparing Payton’s stats to Patti Mills? Cmon Bob, PP has been in the league 2 yrs and has played very little as opposed to Mills who has been in the league since 2009. That’s not even close to being realistic. It’s hilarious.

Excellent post as others have said: Grant, great year, tough (overall) playoffs as he incrementally forgot he’s a role player, not a starter and that others (Galinarri) can take his place. Grant kind of attituded his way down the rotation; his role is to hit corner 3s, rotate on defense, rebound, and get run over on weak side help trying to draw offensive fouls. That’s it, but that’s a lot—-so get back to doing that and he can very useful again. PP is a gym rat and has more game to give; he and Tatum had success playing a 2-man game at the top of the key for example. He gets used in the post like most short guys, some hard fouling could help (him feel better about being short, used to work for me hehe). Tatum refused to pass him the ball in like Game 3 of the Finals when he was open (left side above the arc); seemed to kill his confidence (and mine) as it was out of character and showed he was already kind of rattled (school yard “ I’m not passing him the ball” vibe -. he’s your best shooter dummy, get him going. Some untidy thoughts.