Grant Williams Needs A Reality Check

Ktron wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:Kitron you are totally missing the point, the reason I’m even bringing any of this up is because he opened up his big mouth and made a statement, that’s why we are even discussing any of this NONSENSE!!! Do you get it?

If its nonsense why are you discussing it? I’ll say it again, in my opinion, what Grant said is not problematic. It is for you so marinate in it all you want if you so desire. You have a problem with him saying he believes the Celtics are a better team. Think about that for a minute. Do you get it? What is the problem?  Also, Your questioning people’s intelligence is quite bold and unnecessary. I don't care to discuss this topic with you anymore.

I’m discussing it because it annoyed me and I’m sure a few others

dboss wrote:

Ktron wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:Kitron you are totally missing the point, the reason I’m even bringing any of this up is because he opened up his big mouth and made a statement, that’s why we are even discussing any of this NONSENSE!!! Do you get it?

If its nonsense why are you discussing it? I’ll say it again, in my opinion, what Grant said is not problematic. It is for you so marinate in it all you want if you so desire. You have a problem with him saying he believes the Celtics are a better team. Think about that for a minute. Do you get it? What is the problem?  Also, Your questioning people’s intelligence is quite bold and unnecessary. I don't care to discuss this topic with you anymore.

Dude your are hilarious!

And pathetic

Sure

Grant's diagnosis was correct. Our lack of discipline cost us #18.

The rest of his comment is irrelevant.

dboss wrote:

Ktron wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:Kitron you are totally missing the point, the reason I’m even bringing any of this up is because he opened up his big mouth and made a statement, that’s why we are even discussing any of this NONSENSE!!! Do you get it?

If its nonsense why are you discussing it? I’ll say it again, in my opinion, what Grant said is not problematic. It is for you so marinate in it all you want if you so desire. You have a problem with him saying he believes the Celtics are a better team. Think about that for a minute. Do you get it? What is the problem?  Also, Your questioning people’s intelligence is quite bold and unnecessary. I don't care to discuss this topic with you anymore.

Dude your are hilarious!

Yeah and you are the one who started this s**t with your silly open letter to Grant.

Hilarious? Beats being a Sad Sack over a #8 rotation player talking on a bench warmers podcast yet unbothered by your Super Star sucking and then hanging out with the enemy. Might wanna adjust your focus…

Btw, Thanks. I have 2 shows tonight and don't forget to tip the wait staff ya cheap so and so

worcester wrote:Grant's diagnosis was correct. Our lack of discipline cost us #18.

The rest of his comment is irrelevant.

I agree. I listened to it again and everything Grant said was true.

Hey Dboss. Do you know who Mantan Moreland is?

gyso wrote:Context is key.  Don't get wrapped up in a single line, spoken once yet quoted twice at the beginning of this thread where it is left in a vacuum.  I feel that you have to get past the headline (what have we recently learned about headlines?) and read the entire article before grokking it's totality.

Here is a bit more, but even with this bit of more, without hearing the actual podcast, we are missing the back and forth and the body language.

In an appearance on Heat forward Duncan Robinson’s “The Long Shot” podcast, Williams — who, per the podcast hosts, showed up to record with a glass of wine in each hand — talked very candidly about his rivalry with Draymond Green, as well as how the Celtics feel after their six-game defeat.

“When I’ve reflected and looked back to those games, I still would say confidently — confidently — to this day they weren’t the better team,” Williams said. “I would say they were the more disciplined team. I would say that without a doubt.”

Williams added that the Celtics — who averaged 16.8 turnovers per game in the Finals — felt like they self-destructed, as the Warriors’ “championship pedigree” helped boost them.

Again, to me this is the very same sentiment that I have read by fans, both during as well after, the finals, both here and elsewhere.
 
It seems silly to me that this faux-angst is what we are spending our time on, instead of um, perhaps discussing playing time, who is going to start, the various nicknames for our players (and surprisingly, who has no nickname), etc.  Guys, I set the table (with some effort) for that discussion, but no, we got this.  

But, whatever.  If you must, carry on.  But be nice to each other.

Gyso, I did listen to it in its entirety again this afternoon. Folks can complain about the person who said it all they want. Fact of the matter is is that everything Grant said was echoed on this forum by the same folks complaining about what Grant said.
Y’all are right. There are more important things to discuss about our team. Open letters peppered with negativity to players who won’t read them is not one of them.

dboss wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:Kitron you are totally missing the point, the reason I’m even bringing any of this up is because he opened up his big mouth and made a statement, that’s why we are even discussing any of this NONSENSE!!! Do you get it?

Cow

Good point.

The failings of our team in the finals has been discussed ad nauseam.  .   I do not recall hearing any of our guys making any assertions that we were a better team than GSW other than Grant.  From what I have read and heard the team as a collective group know they blew a huge opportunity but they remain confident that they can win the title.

That is the most important thing and Grant can pretend that he was on the winning team because Curry may let him wear a ring.

Steph to Grant Williams "It's great to see you again my man. I know you like this color, I'll let you borrow it after I'm done. I might even let you wear a ring."

Boy, talk about being trite and petty. You both sound like grade schoolers. Recess is over guys. Back to some more serious topics.

It’s pretty obvious who the grade schooler is that just posted 5 times in a row, let it end….leave Tatum alone, he and no other Celtic opened their big mouth

cowens/oldschool wrote:It’s pretty obvious who the grade schooler is that just posted 5 times in a row, let it end….leave Tatum alone, he and no other Celtic opened their big mouth

Gyso said be nice and I am trying. Cowens, I strongly suggest that you don't come for me. Your wit is hardly a match. Thats why I tried to end it by telling you I don't want to discuss it and YOU kept talking anyway. So, this time I’m asking that you don’t bring this topic up with me again. Its annoying.

Can we just move on to teasing Bob H?

All I can say about Grant Williams is last summer he hit the gym and dramatically improved his game especially form beyond the 3 pt arc. I just think IME used Grant poorly in the finals. More as a decoy to get Tatum and Brown freed up, instead of getting him the ball to hit 3 point shots. Grants game is challenged in several ways because he cannot play above the rim and he is not fast.

I cannot say the same about other members of the Celtic team which shall remain nameless for now regarding their last summers work to improve their game. The only thing I saw was the same old, same old which I saw for the last 2 years which became old.

Our team was flawed going into the playoff.

We had a short bench, no true shooting talent except for occasional bursts out of shooting from G. Williams, White and Pritchard. No true big man who could play some defense and scoring while Williams and Horford could catch some rest.

The teams we played against before the finals were either missing key players because of injuries or were subpar teams playing above their true worth.

112288

For me at $2.6 million Grant is a keeper this year.

bygone wrote:

For me at $2.6 million Grant is a keeper this year.

bygone,

I think that amount was last year's salary.  Grant will make more than that for the upcoming season:

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/grant-williams-31579/

112288 wrote:All I can say about Grant Williams is last summer he hit the gym and dramatically improved his game especially form beyond the 3 pt arc.  I just think IME used Grant poorly in the finals.  More as a decoy to get Tatum and Brown freed up, instead of getting him the ball to hit 3 point shots.  Grants game is challenged in several ways because he cannot play above the rim and he is not fast.

I cannot say the same about other members of the Celtic team which shall remain nameless for now regarding their last summers work to improve their game.   The only thing I saw was the same old, same old which I saw for the last 2 years which became old.

Our team was flawed going into the playoff.  

We had a short bench, no true shooting talent except for occasional bursts out of shooting from G. Williams, White and Pritchard. No true big man who could play some defense and scoring while Williams and Horford could catch some rest.

The teams we played against before the finals were either missing key players because of injuries or were subpar teams playing above their true worth.

112288  

That all may be true, but we still came within 2 games of winning the Finals, and were 5 minutes from a 3-1 lead. The biggest problem was our closer Tatum couldn’t close in the Finals, like he did in previous rounds and 2 J’s while having their moments, still got exposed by a Warrior defense keyed to stop them with different looks. I was really impressed with GS’s defense, despite no shotblocking big, we still couldn’t attack them and finish inside enough. A big reason being Wiggins and K Thompson were the best wing defenders we faced that can match up very well with the J’s, and Gary Peyton Jr is another very good pitbull defender.

We still have the best 2 elite wings on the same team in the league, only the Clippers and GS can rival us there. On Grant he is a limited back up PF, he can have moments, but he is still a back up and it’s not his job to carry us. He is undersized and can go thru many cold stretches too. I was cringing when he was on the floor for stretches with Horford, who is an average rebounder at best; whenever the 2 of them were on the floor together, we couldn’t rebound. I am hoping Kabengele can play at the next level, he has size and hops, he seems better equipped to do the dirty work that Grant is deficient in. I’m sure management sees this and that’s why we acquired him. If Tatum was in one of his elite zones, we could have extended and might have won the series, despite his turnovers, but it wasn’t meant to be. Love the Brogden and Galinari acquisitions and hopefully both J’s can clean up their games and play even better.

That may also be true about winning it all but you know the stark true statement that rings true all the time,

Win or Go Home!

112288

Touché, Bob

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Touché, Bob

Rosalie, are you home from your Maine vacation? I hope you had a good time.

cowens/oldschool wrote:

112288 wrote:All I can say about Grant Williams is last summer he hit the gym and dramatically improved his game especially form beyond the 3 pt arc.  I just think IME used Grant poorly in the finals.  More as a decoy to get Tatum and Brown freed up, instead of getting him the ball to hit 3 point shots.  Grants game is challenged in several ways because he cannot play above the rim and he is not fast.

I cannot say the same about other members of the Celtic team which shall remain nameless for now regarding their last summers work to improve their game.   The only thing I saw was the same old, same old which I saw for the last 2 years which became old.

Our team was flawed going into the playoff.  

We had a short bench, no true shooting talent except for occasional bursts out of shooting from G. Williams, White and Pritchard. No true big man who could play some defense and scoring while Williams and Horford could catch some rest.

The teams we played against before the finals were either missing key players because of injuries or were subpar teams playing above their true worth.

112288  

That all may be true, but we still came within 2 games of winning the Finals, and were 5 minutes from a 3-1 lead. The biggest problem was our closer Tatum couldn’t close in the Finals, like he did in previous rounds and 2 J’s while having their moments, still got exposed by a Warrior defense keyed to stop them with different looks. I was really impressed with GS’s defense, despite no shotblocking big, we still couldn’t attack them and finish inside enough. A big reason being Wiggins and K Thompson were the best wing defenders we faced that can match up very well with the J’s, and Gary Peyton Jr is another very good pitbull defender.

We still have the best 2 elite wings on the same team in the league, only the Clippers and GS can rival us there. On Grant he is a limited back up PF, he can have moments, but he is still a back up and it’s not his job to carry us. He is undersized and can go thru many cold stretches too. I was cringing when he was on the floor for stretches with Horford, who is an average rebounder at best; whenever the 2 of them were on the floor together, we couldn’t rebound. I am hoping Kabengele can play at the next level, he has size and hops, he seems better equipped to do the dirty work that Grant is deficient in. I’m sure management sees this and that’s why we acquired him. If Tatum was in one of his elite zones, we could have extended and might have won the series, despite his turnovers, but it wasn’t meant to be. Love the Brogden and Galinari acquisitions and hopefully both J’s can clean up their games and play even better.

Cowen,

How do you define elite? Elite in my book is superstar who has a complete game. Neither Tatum nor Brown fit my definition as being complete.

Tatum has no move in attacking the basket. Half the time he gets the ball stripped from him or if he is finishing at the rim he shy's away from contact and does not get the call he always is looking for and complains. My last comment was taken form a number of notable analysts who brought up why Tatum does not get calls at the rim during the finals. Tatum is ice cold or red hot when it comes to scoring. There is no in between with him. He may score 20 - 22 points on a given night but look at his shooting stats, his percentages suck! He also has no back step shot. I do have to give him credit for trying to alter his game per IME to increase his assists and rebounding. Like to see more of that by him.

Brown is better in several areas than Tatum. I believe he has better focus during the game, he has a better attacking style going to the rim and a great step back shot within the paint. He is at time very hot and cold shooting shots and inconsistent during a game. Meaning he has 22 points at half time and for the game 27.

I label them very good players and above the rank and file players, but not close to being elite players.

112288

112288

Multiple all star types that can impact on both ends and carry teams to winning situations are elite. I think Jaylen is on his way to multiple all star games and would have been last year, but our record was not good enough. We can debate Tatum all day, he is madingly inconsistent, but when he’s on we win. He was first team all NBA for a reason and we got to 2 games of the championship. Is there need for improvement? Ofcourse

cowens/oldschool wrote:Multiple all star types that can impact on both ends and carry teams to winning situations are elite. I think Jaylen is on his way to multiple all star games and would have been last year, but our record was not good enough. We can debate Tatum all day, he is madingly inconsistent, but when he’s on we win. He was first team all NBA for a reason and we got to 2 games of the championship. Is there need for improvement? Ofcourse

Ya you know why they need to type new players and prop them up as elite guys like KD or James, because KD and James are getting old and long in the tooth. It is all hype and marketing to continue the NBA down the path of mega money. As far as I am concerned, the league is not close to where it was during the Bird/Magic era or the KG/ Pierce/Kobe era.

112288