2022-2023 POST GAME NEW YORK KNICKS - AWAY

Celtics Wrap: Ice-Cold Shooting Start Dooms Boston Vs. Knicks
The C's could find their stride all night


NESN by Gio Rivera

The Boston Celtics fell rock-hard against the New York Knicks, 109-94, Monday night at Madison Square Garden.

The Celtics fell to 44-18 on their season while the Knicks improved to 36-27 with their sixth consecutive win.

ONE BIG TAKEAWAY
The C’s couldn’t buy an outside shot in the first half and it came to haunt them.

Boston’s outside game was atrocious to open up the night, shooting just 2-of-19 from beyond the arc in the first half. As one could imagine, this dug the Celtics a pretty hefty divot, trailing the Knicks by as many as 20 points in the second quarter. In fact, Boston was 0-9 when trailing by eight or more points before the three-game road trip finale in the Big Apple.

This positioned the Celtics with a picture-perfect opportunity to spark a come-from-behind run, which never came. Boston continued its repulsive 3-point struggles, finishing 9-of-41 by the final buzzer. And despite some gritty efforts such as Marcus Smart’s third-quarter block on Isaiah Hartenstein or Jayson Tatum’s behind-the-back feed to Malcolm Brogdon right after, Boston couldn’t avoid a second straight loss in the season series against New York.

Now 1-2 against the Knicks this season, the Celtics have one final redemption shot set on March 5.

STARS OF THE GAME
— Immanuel Quickley supported New York’s lineup with a more than solid 27 minutes off the bench. Quickley scored 23 points with three rebounds, knocking down 4-of-7 3-point attempts.

— Brogdon was both the highest and most efficient scorer for Joe Mazzulla throughout the night, finishing with 22 points on 10-of-15 shooting with two assists and a block off the bench.

— Smart contributed 19 points and four rebounds, getting involved on both ends to try to bridge the scoreboard gap with two blocks and a steal.

WAGER WATCH
DraftKings Sportsbook set the over/under on Tatum’s assist total at 4.5 with +100 odds on the over. The young All-Star cleared those odds easily, collecting a game-leading 10 assists before his fourth quarter ejection. A $100 wager placed on Tatum would’ve resulted in a $200 total payout.

UP NEXT
The Celtics return home, next facing off against the Cleveland Cavaliers on Wednesday. Tip off from TD Garden is scheduled for 7:30 p.m. ET.

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Looks like Joe had no answers to Tommy Thibodeau defense and offense.  Joe's only answer was to just chuck 3's all night centered around our superstar from 3 point land JT (1-9). Way to go, second straight game tatum has trouble shooting 3's and winds up with 14 points!

Without Brown we have no inside game. Looks like Rob Williams like to play below the rim for the secons straight game.

We need a real big center who can play. Rob Williams cannot play against true Bigs, he does not have the bulk nor the size and gets pushed around. Another short coming of Rob, he has no outside game especially 3 pointers. Defenses sag in the middle even if Rob comes out to the foul line which prevents any clear attack to the rim.

Let see what other tomato cans surface for Brad to pick up. Hopefully we can land a rim protector with Noel.

Oh BTW we are now behind Milwaukee by a game in the loss column.

112288

Well, the narrative on the Celtics and their chances to win the title this year has been tilting slightly lately to focusing/hinging on our newbie coach. While perfectly legit and expected, I'm going to submit to you all that this is hypocritical to say the least.

First Year Head Coach Ime Udoka took a far LESSER version of this very team to within 2 games of a championship last season. It is still not an easy task and all the stars have to line up to even win a championship but let's address this balance between coach and team.

First, I'm going to give everyone that is going to jump on this right out of the gate that, yes, SIASJ is going to blow one or two games in the playoffs because he didn't call a timeout at the right time in the game. It appears that hard heads have sore asses and SIASJ is not going to change his stripes on that. Don't worry, they won't be in the games that matter.

Remember the formula...first team to win 4 games and in a 7th game, the final score will be 4-3, just winning won more game than your opponent. Think even further back to I believe our first championship which went 7 games and 2OT's. Not a lot separating winning from losing. Ever. SIASJ know the difference.

I'm not saying SIASJ is Ime. Of course he isn't. But he saw the winning formula for a whole year under Ime. Except for the TO's and not leashing in the 3-ball when it's not working like last night, which by the way has been occurring less and less, both coaches have developed winning ways. Ime only got about half a season of it. SIASJ has seen almost two seasons of it. Unless he has an brain fart and since he seems pretty rigid in his ways, that ain't changing either.

While Ime was possibly a little more hands on, SIASJ is a little more hands off with his coaching style. But the results are similar. SIASJ hasn't come in here with an agenda or tried to upset the apple cart. Without looking, I'm going to guess SIASJ's winning percentage is better than Ime's. That may be obvious with the slow start of last year's team, but I'll let the statisticians here provide that number.

I know, I know. Playoffs aren't the regular season. Other teams have made adjustments to get over the hump. We did the same with Brodgen, White, Muscala to a lesser degree. MIL has to incorporate Crowder. PHI has to...implode. CLE, while good and right now a nemesis to Boston, won't make any noise come playoffs. If we meet, we'll do the same to DM we did to KD and make him look pedestrian. Then whacha/whoya got?!

MIL is going to shoot themselves in the foot not getting Middleton back quickly enough. It will be a 7th deciding game series. Get ready for it and it will probably be in MIL. Think the Balloon Game. JT wants to be an All-Time Celtic Great? Here's your stage. Come up short again and who knows what the world will think!

The balance and more the respect between players and coach is paramount. Every coach is going to have his shortcomings. I honestly believe, and it is showing itself very regularly on the floor, that these players respect SIASJ and vice versa. Does he need to need to reinvent the wheel with this team? Absolutely not.

The road to the Finals this year is filled with more timebombs than last year. But SIASJ will hold his own. His feet will be held to the fire but his team will speak for him and vice versa.

BTW, JT legit to argue those two calls. Can't have someone pushing on you going up for a dunk once airborne. Refs missed the second one on the wrist as well. He was ejected. Still has some maturing to do there. It won't happen again. Just wish he had driven to the basket more in that game.

3-pt Mistress is a Fickle Bitch. Here comes 2nd place in the East.

db

The Celtics do not have a Plan B when their Plan A is not working.

Last night the Celtics were right on target with their 3 point shot attempts (42),  For the season they average 42.1 attempts per game.  On average, they make 16 3 pointers per game.   Last night they only made 9.

The Celtics do not have a Plan B per say because they always believe they will make the next 3 point shot.

It is what it is.  

The game was frustrating to watch because ever time the Celtics closed the gap the Knicks scored.  There were opportunities to make shots and one or 2 more 3 point makes may have been the difference.

Our Top Gun Tatum went 1-9 from deep and some of our secondary shooters (Grant and Hauser) combined for 0-5.  You saw the game.  You had to see those wide open misses from them in the corner.  White, who has been red hot put up an 0-5 donut from deep.

I am not sure what CJ could have done differently.  Maybe a timeout or 2 to break the momentum and maybe more play calling from him when the Celtics were missing from deep.

He tried to find different combinations but nothing really worked efficiently.  

You notice how Thibs called timeouts whenever the Celtics got a sniff of consistency?

SIASJ does not know when to do that.

If Boston is going to make a deep playoff run, it will be up to the players to make that happen.

Joe does not give the Celtics a coaching edge.  Becoming a great coach simply does not happen overnight.  

I am not putting this loss on Joe.  It remains a make or miss league but you need to have a coach that knows when and how to micromanage portions of a game.

To me, the absolute worst part of the loss last night to the Knicks was Tatum getting tossed out of a game that he played very poorly in.

There is no excuse to keep whining and whining when you are not playing well. All it does is contribute to everyone else not playing as well
even if the referees missed a couple of calls, and it makes him appear to be a selfish player.

IF he is the team's leader/best player (and, he is) this guy needs to be able to suck it up when not playing well which will go a long way
to improving leadership when not playing well. And, if he were still in the game doing other things beside shooting, you never know how
the end of the game would have been.

Stay focused on the game, Mr Tatum. Your example must be much better than what I saw last night.

I was at the game last night. Just my luck I got to see one of their worst performances of the season and endure some barbs from the knicks fans.

Let's face it the knicks just played harder than us last night. Yes, we missed some wide open threes, but the worst was getting beat on the boards. Rob has to do a better job. Robinson was a real problem. We looked flat last night, so let's chalk it up to just a bad game. Malcolm Brogdon was terrific and Marcus played his usual gritty game, but everyone else didn't have it.

As was mentioned now behind the Bucks for the one seed. Each game is important if we want the one seed. I looked at both our schedule and the Bucks and neither is easy. Can't have too many performances like last night.

has anyone read through the timeout rules? It is an interesting read.

https://official.nba.com/rule-no-5-scoring-and-timing/#timeouts

Some key points

Section VI—Timeouts – Mandatory/Team

Each team is entitled to seven (7) charged timeouts during regulation play. Each team is limited to no more than four (4) timeouts in the fourth period. Each team will be limited to two (2) team timeouts after the later of (i) the three-minute mark of the fourth period or (ii) the conclusion of the second mandatory timeout of the fourth period.

There must be two mandatory timeouts in each period.
If neither team has taken a timeout prior to 6:59 of the period, it shall be mandatory for the Official Scorer to take it at the first dead ball and charge it to the home team. If no subsequent timeouts are taken prior to 2:59, it shall be mandatory for the Official Scorer to take it and charge it to the team not previously charged.

The Official Scorer shall notify a team when it has been charged with a mandatory time-out.

Mandatory timeouts shall be 2:45 for local games and 3:15 for national games. Any additional team timeouts in a period beyond those which are mandatory shall be 1:15.

That is fascinating, dboss! Thank you for looking that up. Since I record all my games and when I push my FF button twice (which advances the recording in 30-second intervals) at the start of the commercials, sometimes I overshoot and have to back track. Very annoying for someone trying to cheat the commercial ads system! That explains the additional mandatory timeouts and not knowing the different times allotted. Perfect! Thank you so much!!

db

dbrown4 wrote:That is fascinating, dboss!  Thank you for looking that up.  Since I record all my games and when I push my FF button twice (which advances the recording in 30-second intervals) at the start of the commercials, sometimes I overshoot and have to back track.  Very annoying for someone trying to cheat the commercial ads system!  That explains the additional mandatory timeouts and not knowing the different times allotted.  Perfect!  Thank you so much!!

db

 

db

NBA.COM  has a box score for every game and also a play by play option for each QTR.  I went over the play by play option to see when timeouts were called during last night's game.

What I found was disturbing.  

https://www.nba.com/game/bos-vs-nyk-0022200921/play-by-play?period=Q3

Coach Thibs called timeouts during the game when Boston was closing the gap.  He did that in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th QTRs. See the play by play log.

With 6:35 remaining in the 1st QTR: With 7:42 remaining in the 2nd QTR, with 9:53 remaining in the 3rd and with 8:45 remaining in the 4th.  At 5;48 in the 4th Thibs won his coaches challenge and he called his final timeout with 4:52 remaining in the game. The play by play log displays was was happening before the timeouts were called.

SIASJ took one time out in the 1st QTR with 2:41 remaining.  He took a TO in the 2nd QTR with 1:50 remaining.  He took a TO with 1:15 remaining in the 3rd.  He took a timeout with 6:18 remaining in the game.

CJ called 4 timeouts in the game and 3 of them were insignificant end of QTR breaks...SIASJ

Thibs used his timeouts to impact the game.

You cannot be a game manager unless you know when timeouts should be called.

wideclyde wrote:To me, the absolute worst part of the loss last night to the Knicks was Tatum getting tossed out of a game that he played very poorly in.

There is no excuse to keep whining and whining when you are not playing well.  All it does is contribute to everyone else not playing as well
even if the referees missed a couple of calls, and it makes him appear to be a selfish player.

IF he is the team's leader/best player (and, he is) this guy needs to be able to suck it up when not playing well which will go a long way
to improving leadership when not playing well.  And, if he were still in the game doing other things beside shooting, you never know how
the end of the game would have been.

Stay focused on the game, Mr Tatum.  Your example must be much better than what I saw last night.

I hate to see guys get thrown out of games.

The Celtics went 11-14 from the line and the Knicks went 23-34. The Knicks played very physical but the refs did not call it both ways. Tatum got pushed on a dunk and also was hit on his forearm on a 3 point attempt. There were many other missed foul calls as well.

The guy who should have been thrown out of the game is CJ. The coach is the one who has to step up to the plate. 20 more free throw attempts by the Knicks is reason enough for SIASJ to speak up.

Chalk this one to the NY defense forcing the Celts into bad offense. Yes, we played poorly as well but NY applied more pressure on perimeter shots than I have seen other teams being able to apply.

And then, there were wide open missed 3s. That was bad.

I think that we have a fine team. I just wished that they had looked for Muscala more when he was in the game. After all, what is the point in having a defensively weak shooter on the floor if you are not looking to get him opportunities to shoot? A 3 or a couple would have made all the difference at that juncture of the game.

I know I am a lonely voice in the wilderness, but here goes. The coach bashing on this site has become damn near ridiculous. Somebody actually lauded Doc's time out strategy compared to Joe's. Yeah, great. I guess not many people noticed that Rivers used up his timeouts the other night and our dumbassed coach had two left in the final seconds , which was instrumental in our winning the Sixers game . Or maybe people noticed , but it didn't suit their " I'm smarter than Mazulla " narrative.Does anybody seriously think that Thib's canny use of timeouts made a smidgen of a difference in last night's outcome? Mazzula is coaching the guys we have. He tells guys to take the open shot. I know some of us find that offensive, but what is the alternative? We're not exactly rife with postup guys Our bigs, sans RW, are perimeter players on offense, and RW is not exactly a post-up magician. Who can drive and finish? Brown, Brogdon , White, sometimes Smart, and sometimes Tatum, when he isn't losing his dribble, or throwing the ball into the stands. I don't see Joe interfering with the guys who can drive and I don't know who the h#ll our postup guys are.: Smart, on occassion, Brown,Grant, on the rare occassions that a smaller guy is guarding him. Like it or not, Brad has provided Mazzula with a team of excellent three point shooters, some guys who can drive and pop , or sometimes attack the rim ( and have free reign to do what they do best).Criticizing the coach for utilizing the players he has been given , in the manner most suitable to their talents, seems absurd to me. We lost to NY because they played better, and more enthusiastically than we did. Happens sometimes. Not nearly as often as it did when Ime took over, or against the Dubs in the playoffs, but sometimes, over the course of an 82 game season. NOBODY, on this board, mentioned that Joe's use of timeouts, and Doc's prematurely using them up, made a difference in a game that was close enough for coach's decisions to alter the outcome. Everybody is entitled to their opinions regarding time out usage, starting lineups, substitution patterns etc., but forming opinions and trying to conform reality to one's preconceptions is an exercise in futility. Reality is the team's record. If you discount the coach's contribution to that record , it's your perogative, but it remihnds me of the oft-expressed opinions of board members that we had given up too much for Derrick White. Sometimes the actual protagonists know more than we do. Heck, that could possibly even apply to JM.

jrleftfoot wrote:I know I am a lonely voice in the wilderness, but here goes. The coach bashing on this site has become damn near ridiculous. Somebody actually lauded Doc's time out strategy compared to Joe's. Yeah, great. I guess not many people noticed that Rivers used up his timeouts the other night and our dumbassed coach had two left in the final seconds , which was instrumental in our winning the Sixers game . Or maybe people noticed , but it didn't suit their " I'm smarter than Mazulla " narrative.Does anybody seriously  think that Thib's canny use of timeouts made a smidgen of a difference in last night's outcome? Mazzula is coaching the guys we have. He tells guys to take the open shot. I know some of us find that offensive, but what is the alternative? We're not exactly rife with postup guys Our bigs, sans RW, are perimeter players on offense, and RW is not exactly a post-up magician. Who can drive and finish? Brown, Brogdon , White, sometimes Smart, and sometimes Tatum, when he isn't losing his dribble, or throwing the ball into the stands. I don't see Joe interfering with the guys who can drive and I don't know who the h#ll our postup guys are.: Smart, on occassion, Brown,Grant, on the rare occassions that a smaller guy is guarding him. Like it or not, Brad has provided Mazzula with a team of excellent three point shooters, some guys who can drive and pop , or sometimes attack the rim ( and have free reign to do what they do best).Criticizing the coach for utilizing the players he has been given , in the manner most suitable to their talents, seems absurd to me. We lost to NY because they played better, and more enthusiastically than we did. Happens sometimes. Not nearly as often as it did when Ime took over, or against the Dubs in the playoffs, but sometimes, over the course of an 82 game season. NOBODY, on this board, mentioned that Joe's use of timeouts, and Doc's prematurely using them up, made a difference in a game that was close enough for coach's decisions to alter the outcome. Everybody is entitled to their opinions regarding time out usage, starting lineups, substitution patterns etc., but forming opinions and trying to conform reality to one's preconceptions is an exercise in futility. Reality is the team's record. If you discount the coach's contribution to that record , it's your perogative, but it remihnds me of the oft-expressed opinions of board members that we had given up too much for Derrick White. Sometimes the actual protagonists know more than we do. Heck, that could possibly even apply to JM.    

Leftfoot,

Good post.

You're not a lone voice in the wilderness on this one. I agree with you 100%.

I find one often-repeated criticism of Mazzulla's game management stands out in a big way to me; use of time outs.

Every coach has a different strategy, some may be conventional, some not. In Mazzulla's case, he has stated that he often prefers to have his team play through rough spots, including when the opponent is on a run.

Here's the thing when I see criticism of that philosophy and timeout usage... There is NO proof that calling a TO to stop a run actually works. Never has been and no reliable or official stats are kept on that one. So who is to say if Mazzulla's strategy is flawed in that regard?

That just happens to be my favorite one to laugh at, but I'm with you on the rest too.

You say the coach bashing has gotten damn near ridiculous on this site? I guess that's the only thing I might disagree with you about. We passed ridiculous 10 miles back. Now wait until you see the responses to this. They'll be the same old tired, repeating rants. And they'll go on, and on, and on... Just watch.

Regards

NYCelt wrote:

jrleftfoot wrote:I know I am a lonely voice in the wilderness, but here goes. The coach bashing on this site has become damn near ridiculous. Somebody actually lauded Doc's time out strategy compared to Joe's. Yeah, great. I guess not many people noticed that Rivers used up his timeouts the other night and our dumbassed coach had two left in the final seconds , which was instrumental in our winning the Sixers game . Or maybe people noticed , but it didn't suit their " I'm smarter than Mazulla " narrative.Does anybody seriously  think that Thib's canny use of timeouts made a smidgen of a difference in last night's outcome? Mazzula is coaching the guys we have. He tells guys to take the open shot. I know some of us find that offensive, but what is the alternative? We're not exactly rife with postup guys Our bigs, sans RW, are perimeter players on offense, and RW is not exactly a post-up magician. Who can drive and finish? Brown, Brogdon , White, sometimes Smart, and sometimes Tatum, when he isn't losing his dribble, or throwing the ball into the stands. I don't see Joe interfering with the guys who can drive and I don't know who the h#ll our postup guys are.: Smart, on occassion, Brown,Grant, on the rare occassions that a smaller guy is guarding him. Like it or not, Brad has provided Mazzula with a team of excellent three point shooters, some guys who can drive and pop , or sometimes attack the rim ( and have free reign to do what they do best).Criticizing the coach for utilizing the players he has been given , in the manner most suitable to their talents, seems absurd to me. We lost to NY because they played better, and more enthusiastically than we did. Happens sometimes. Not nearly as often as it did when Ime took over, or against the Dubs in the playoffs, but sometimes, over the course of an 82 game season. NOBODY, on this board, mentioned that Joe's use of timeouts, and Doc's prematurely using them up, made a difference in a game that was close enough for coach's decisions to alter the outcome. Everybody is entitled to their opinions regarding time out usage, starting lineups, substitution patterns etc., but forming opinions and trying to conform reality to one's preconceptions is an exercise in futility. Reality is the team's record. If you discount the coach's contribution to that record , it's your perogative, but it remihnds me of the oft-expressed opinions of board members that we had given up too much for Derrick White. Sometimes the actual protagonists know more than we do. Heck, that could possibly even apply to JM.    

Leftfoot,

You're not a lone voice in the wilderness on this one. I agree with you 100%.

I find one often-repeated criticism of Mazzulla's game management stands out in a big way to me; use of time outs.

Every coach has a different strategy, some may be conventional, some not. In Mazzulla's case, he has stated that he often prefers to have his team play through rough spots, including when the opponent is on a run.

Here's the thing when I see criticism of that philosophy and timeout usage... There is NO proof that calling a TO to stop a run actually works. Never has been and no reliable or official stats are kept on that one. So who is to say if Mazzulla's strategy is flawed in that regard?

That just happens to be my favorite one to laugh at, but I'm with you on the rest too.

You say the coach bashing has gotten damn near ridiculous on this site? I guess that's the only thing I might disagree with you about. We passed ridiculous 10 miles back. Now wait until you see the responses to this. They'll be the same old tired, repeating rants. And they'll go on, and on, and on... Just watch.

Good post.

Regards

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