Re: PLAYOFFS 2023 - EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS GAME #2 - POST GAME MIAMI HEAT - HOME

by **worcester** Sat May 20, 2023 1:53 pm

Scal says what Celtics management wants to hear period. He does not pretend to be objective about the Celts. He is just talking to kiss ass for his paycheck.

by **RosalieTCeltics** Sat May 20, 2023 2:20 pm

Boy, alot of coaches here on this board. Are you all on the payroll??? Joe will be back,, but I am not sure some of these players will. Sure, Jaylen and Horford have had a rough road here, and it is one of the main reasons that we are behind 0-2. Some of those shots taken were so forced it was ridiculous. Stop with the 3 Al, it is not going down. But I have one thing to say, Grant had a good game in one way, but, I now know why he is sitting so much. He cannot keep that mouth shut. Talk about poking the bear.....he did a great job of that last night. Butler must have had a real laugh at the end of the game thinking about him. That mouth just keeps going and going, up and down the court. He could tick off anyone, that is not being active, it is being stupid. Shut up and play ball, I am almost sure you may be somewhere else next year because even your teammates cannot stand it I will not give up, this team has had it's back against the wall before. Time will tell.

by **bobheckler** Sat May 20, 2023 2:27 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Boy, alot of coaches here on this board. Are you all on the payroll??? Joe will be back,, but I am not sure some of these players will. Sure, Jaylen and Horford have had a rough road here, and it is one of the main reasons that we are behind 0-2. Some of those shots taken were so forced it was ridiculous. Stop with the 3 Al, it is not going down. But I have one thing to say, Grant had a good game in one way, but, I now know why he is sitting so much. He cannot keep that mouth shut. Talk about poking the bear.....he did a great job of that last night. Butler must have had a real laugh at the end of the game thinking about him. That mouth just keeps going and going, up and down the court. He could tick off anyone, that is not being active, it is being stupid. Shut up and play ball, I am almost sure you may be somewhere else next year because even your teammates cannot stand it I will not give up, this team has had it's back against the wall before. Time will tell.

Rosalie,

As critical as I have been of Joe I agree with you 100% about him coming back. There is no way Wyc or Brad would fire a coach they knew to be an untested rookie after just one season, that would be both short-sighted as well as an admission of extremely poor judgement and they don't want us to think of them that way.

Yeah, Grant never shuts up and, yeah, Jimmy Butler has come right out and said that he likes it. So, if you want to help the team Grant shut your mouth and play ball.

It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings, but she's standing up and clearing her throat. We still have an opportunity to get her to sit down and wait for her cue but the time is now.

Bob

.

by **Celtics17** Sat May 20, 2023 4:08 pm

bobheckler wrote:
RosalieTCeltics wrote:Boy, alot of coaches here on this board. Are you all on the payroll??? Joe will be back,, but I am not sure some of these players will. Sure, Jaylen and Horford have had a rough road here, and it is one of the main reasons that we are behind 0-2. Some of those shots taken were so forced it was ridiculous. Stop with the 3 Al, it is not going down. But I have one thing to say, Grant had a good game in one way, but, I now know why he is sitting so much. He cannot keep that mouth shut. Talk about poking the bear.....he did a great job of that last night. Butler must have had a real laugh at the end of the game thinking about him. That mouth just keeps going and going, up and down the court. He could tick off anyone, that is not being active, it is being stupid. Shut up and play ball, I am almost sure you may be somewhere else next year because even your teammates cannot stand it I will not give up, this team has had it's back against the wall before. Time will tell.

Rosalie,

As critical as I have been of Joe I agree with you 100% about him coming back. There is no way Wyc or Brad would fire a coach they knew to be an untested rookie after just one season, that would be both short-sighted as well as an admission of extremely poor judgement and they don't want us to think of them that way.

Yeah, Grant never shuts up and, yeah, Jimmy Butler has come right out and said that he likes it. So, if you want to help the team Grant shut your mouth and play ball.

It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings, but she's standing up and clearing her throat. We still have an opportunity to get her to sit down and wait for her cue but the time is now.

Bob

Agree Joe is coming back and hopefully he’s a fast learner and will be better.

Also agree this thing isn’t over. Miami has outplayed us, but has also got a lot of favorable bounces.

We all bleed green, ya gotta believe!!

.

by **prakash** Sat May 20, 2023 5:46 pm

Add me to the "believers" list. We are 0-2 but it is not that we are over-matched. Just got confused and rattled and they have got some good bounces.

Joe is absolutely right that he needs to get some role players going. We can use just a little additional help.

With their zone + free-safety defense, Miami is forcing us into more complicated reads and react and forcing turnovers. We need to find what advantage we can force in order to bend them. Al and JB's shooting woes have just not helped.

by **RosalieTCeltics** Sat May 20, 2023 5:56 pm

I have been disappointed, Malcolm started out strong in the first half of the first game, he has struggled a bit and they are not using White the right way. He needs to be moving constantly. He is just not a stop and pop shooter. Really? Put Blake in for a few minutes, Al needs a break. He ended up playing more minutes than Rob and Rob is the younger guy. With Al struggling a bit. They are daring him to shoot. I can only hope that they do that and end up regretting it if he finally finds his stroke.

by **Ktron** Sat May 20, 2023 7:22 pm

Everyone here except for a few have been critical of Joe and thats okay, on both sides.

I’m sure that all here would love nothing more than to see Joe become a great coach. Its very possible-eventually

I listen and read a lot and right now the entire nation is seeing what we are seeing and pretty much saying the same things.
Thats how glaring his ineptness is.
The situation we are in is indefensible.

Nobody wants to be critical. Everyone wants to remove the roadblocks to 18. Everyone here wants to win. By any means necessary.

Blame Grants mouth if you so choose but if you’ve been watching Butler throughout these playoffs, he’s been plodding and strategically attacking when he see’s the need to do so.
If you have been watching Butler during these playoffs and still think that Grant’s mouth set him off then so be it. I don’t think he needs anyone on the other side to get him going.

If Grant had said nothing at all and Miami was down by 9 like they were, Butler was going to go to work and do something about it.

Problem is nobody on the other side has done anything about slowing him down. He ain’t God and he’s 33. Someone somewhere should be able to do something about it.
Blaming Grant is convenient and with all due respect quite lazy.

Our talent is far superior to Miami.
Former coach of the year Sam Mitchell said this morning that Miami, talent wise is average at best.

Mitchell said he talked with Coach Spo earlier this year and Spo said that if his team could only get healthy they should be able to make a run come playoff time.
Guess what. His team still isn’t 100% heathy and look at them.

No. I don't think that Wyc and company will fire Joe even if they should. They won’t.
After last nights presser, Joe has to know that this job is big and he’s beginning to feel it. Maybe knowing that he’ll convince himself to resign.

Probably won’t.

Maybe tomorrow, our team will rise early, attend church services, Pray like they’ve never played before, gobble down those mixed nuts and come and show us nasty and come away with a win.

Somehow, I believe they will.

by **dbrown4** Sat May 20, 2023 7:22 pm

Yeah, it's not like we're being run out of the gym. They ain't beating us by much, just beating us.

I think we're giving way too much credit to Coach Spo and the Heat in general. Remember they are an 8th seed for a reason. Expect those stripes to start showing up anytime now. Those don't change. Ours haven't.

db

by **worcester** Sat May 20, 2023 7:36 pm

I still say fire Joe IF we lose this series.

Joe simply must play Rob more AND call more time outs.

I do like Grant but not not his mouthing off whuch did NOT get Butler going

by **bobheckler** Sat May 20, 2023 8:04 pm

dbrown4 wrote:All I'm sayin' is just get the $10 you were going to spend on the lottery this week ready and set it aside. Still haven't heard any odds. Does anyone know the actual odds down 0-2 & down 0-3? My sources are producing nothing.

Everyone ready to go down 0-3 before the one and only comeback of all time starts?

db

DBrown

According to my bookie friend the line is currently Celtics +143. That means if you bet $100 and the Celtics rally and win this series with Miami you will get $143 back.

The odds on winning the Championship is +333. A $100 bet gets $333.

Bob

.

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat May 20, 2023 8:25 pm

Stephen A ripping Mazzulla right now, calling him stubborn and getting so outcoached!!

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat May 20, 2023 8:29 pm

worcester wrote:I still say fire Joe IF we lose this series.

Joe simply must play Rob more AND call more time outs.

I do like Grant but not not his mouthing off whuch did NOT get Butler going

His game plans and strategy extremely suck too, no x’s&o’s either that I can see….

by **RosalieTCeltics** Sat May 20, 2023 8:41 pm

Who really cares about Stephen A. Sick of him and his foolish talk. Anything to get attention.

by **dboss** Sat May 20, 2023 10:37 pm

The Celtics are now on the verge of losing to the Heat because they are a mentally soft team...

The teams inability to be focused, play with intensity and pay attention to details is a trait you would expect from an inexperience team with little to no talent.

I do not know what the cause of this malaise is but it seems to be tied to their offense and their inability to play with any level of fluidity against the variety of zone defense employed by coach Spo.

The Celtics are clearly not prepared to beat their zone defenses

SIASJ has not properly prepared his team to play against the Heat's defensive schemes.

If that was the only issue we may still have a chance to reverse this trend.

However last night's game revealed a complete lack of focus, execution and intensity all over the place.

No anticipation, positioning and force on the glass. Careless unforced turnovers like dropping a pass out of bounds (White and G Williams) bouncing the ball off your foot (Brogdon) trying to thread the needle without a needle (Smart) over dribbling the basketball (Brown) running into a crowd (Tatum)

The lack of rebounding 45-35 and the big deficit on the offensive glass 11-6 contributed to yet another low mark in field goal attempts 92-79.

I thought it was a great move by CJ to play Grant. However he left him in the game long past his expiration date. Geez!

I like Grant but unfortunately he does not know when to STFU.

He poked the bear...YES HE DID and that bear chewed his head off.

This is not the first playoff series that we have seen this from grant. He got baited into a tit for tat with, as ktron refers to him, the war criminal, in the Finals last year.

If you want to sell wolf tickets you better damn well be able to put on a show.

But that is not all of it. When he was on fantasy island trying to check Jimmy and was getting smoked, our beloved coach just watched him get his a$$ kicked.

How about a little help? Afterall, the Heat are intent on bringing help to check Tatum and slow down Brown.

CJ implemented help defense in the Philly series.

CJ is very much connected to the inconsistencies that we see on the court.

Other observations: Al Horford look cooked. Spo knows exactly how to beat the Celtics. He only mentioned one thing and we already know what that is (3 point shooting)

If the Celtics are going to get back in this series our players have got to find their will to win and coach CJ cannot afford to miss timeout necessities (16-2 run) under play or over play guys and he has to get his team better acclimated to play offense against the Heat zone defenses.

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat May 20, 2023 11:41 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Who really cares about Stephen A. Sick of him and his foolish talk. Anything to get attention.

He’s the voice of the NBA, top guy at ESPN, underneath the ranting is alot of substance. He didn’t get to that position by luck, he earned it and has a ton of inside sources

by **cowens/oldschool** Sun May 21, 2023 2:10 am

bobheckler wrote:
RosalieTCeltics wrote:Boy, alot of coaches here on this board. Are you all on the payroll??? Joe will be back,, but I am not sure some of these players will. Sure, Jaylen and Horford have had a rough road here, and it is one of the main reasons that we are behind 0-2. Some of those shots taken were so forced it was ridiculous. Stop with the 3 Al, it is not going down. But I have one thing to say, Grant had a good game in one way, but, I now know why he is sitting so much. He cannot keep that mouth shut. Talk about poking the bear.....he did a great job of that last night. Butler must have had a real laugh at the end of the game thinking about him. That mouth just keeps going and going, up and down the court. He could tick off anyone, that is not being active, it is being stupid. Shut up and play ball, I am almost sure you may be somewhere else next year because even your teammates cannot stand it I will not give up, this team has had it's back against the wall before. Time will tell.

Rosalie,

As critical as I have been of Joe I agree with you 100% about him coming back. There is no way Wyc or Brad would fire a coach they knew to be an untested rookie after just one season, that would be both short-sighted as well as an admission of extremely poor judgement and they don't want us to think of them that way.

Yeah, Grant never shuts up and, yeah, Jimmy Butler has come right out and said that he likes it. So, if you want to help the team Grant shut your mouth and play ball.

It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings, but she's standing up and clearing her throat. We still have an opportunity to get her to sit down and wait for her cue but the time is now.

Bob

.

.

That would be the most asinine move possible bringing Joe back. A few assume he’s going to improve, sorry I totally don’t see it. Is there a basketball camp for him to learn how to attack a zone, how to execute ATO’s, how to counter double teams. Our guys get doubled at key moments and Joes afraid to double, then puts Grant on Playoff Jimmy at crunch time with no help, really? Why wasn’t Brown on him? As soon as I saw that my son and I were scratching our heads and saying where is Brown or Tatum defending him, how can you screw up such a simple match up…???? Oh he must have saw something, well his judgement, strategies, lack of them, rotations have all messed up this team so far beyond repair. I can’t understand the company line, he’s learning, he’ll be better next year, it’s on the players. It’s on the players that he froze out Grant, had Al playing way too many minutes, rendering his outside shot to useless, then doesn’t even use Timelord when he was 5-5, doing his job and in for our best runs in the game. We had a legit chance this year according to us, the pundits, Vegas. Now anyone watching is legitimately questioning so many boneheaded moves, time outs please? This guy is stubborn, the whole team was pining for more minutes for Rob, finally he does it and gets great results in game 6, that the team wanted done earlier, then freezes out Rob again. Then says well Al has finished every game, yeah moron that’s why he can’t shoot for sh!t now because you grinded his 36-37 year old legs into the ground. Okay genius you want to play Al, then you can still play Rob with him cause you know to win you need the ball and we’re getting killed on the offensive glass, how can this genius not see that? How could he not see that Smart didn’t have it and White was 3-5 from 3 and not have White in for Smart? I would have went with White Jaylen Tatum Al RWill at crunch time. This coach is too arrogant and clueless to trust with another year in my honest opinion. If we had a real coach that can actually not do boneheaded moves over and over, we had a real chance this year, what a low down dirty shame for the franchise.

by **dbrown4** Sun May 21, 2023 2:51 am

Thanks for looking into that, bobh. Let's see how those two numbers change when we lose yet again today. Then the fun begins. Yeah, those numbers aren't anywhere I want them to be. With a 0-149 record looming, Vegas is going to have to have a line that reflects "never" happening.

Now, I've thought about it. This series Boston may turn this around today and they save the down 0-3 for the Finals. We'll see today. I'm also getting vomitously tired of Mike Malone already. He's just too sickly sweet.

db

by **prakash** Sun May 21, 2023 3:21 am

bobheckler wrote:
Bobby Manning @RealBobManning
about 12 hours ago
Tatum on long wait at his locker post game said he was tired after the late start, getting some ice on his legs and taking a breath.

Jared Weiss @JaredWeissNBA
about 12 hours ago
Jayson Tatum: "I got Joe’s back and he’s got ours. Joe didn’t miss no shots and have turnovers. I missed shots and had turnovers."

.

Bob,

I noticed these two quotes today AFTER my frustration is somewhat better controlled.

I have said before that I REALLY admire Tatum's emotional intelligence. These two quotes stand out for me in that regard.

It is just straight forward honesty on his part to say that he was tired and just regrouping. After all, after competing for the whole game and the ensuing disappointment, it is OK if takes a few minutes for himself.

And then the second comment just shows him in a totally different light. Jaylen sucked. Al was invisible. But here is Tatum talking about HIS missed shots and turnovers. He did also talk about missed rebounds, turnovers, etc. in his presser. But he is not throwing anybody under the bus.

by **Shamrock1000** Sun May 21, 2023 10:41 am

Joe does seem like he is in over his head, and to the most out of this team, or anything even close. Of course things are more complicated. The players handle the ball, make decisions, take shots, and defend. The other team is mace up of nba players; personally I think the supposed talent discrepancy is overestimated. The Heat have talent too. All that being said, if management sees Joe the way we all do, yet they keep him around to avoid admitting poor judges or to save money, then thst us insane. You can't just fire players without financial consequences that limit team building, but you can fire coaches. Given how hard it is to assemble a contender, management better not stick with Joe to save face or a few dollars.

by **cowens/oldschool** Sun May 21, 2023 10:41 am

We know GWill talks too much, but in the last 6.37 of the game, we only scored 3 FG’s, Grant was the one who scored them all. This is the state of our offense under clueless Joe during another epic collapse in a you know playoff game!!! Pathetic. Is it all on Joe? ofcourse not, it’s the players too, but as noted they are disguising coverages (zone) and double teaming Tatum and Brown and even knowing where the pass may go (jumping the passing lane)….as Butler got it going, others on the Heat also scored off you know good basketball, ball movement and players running good sets so there are options. On defense we let Butler be defended by our not best wing defender (Grant) and gave him no help (double teams). Were behind 0-2 now, anyone have any confidence Joe can up with anything at all in one day?

by **cowens/oldschool** Sun May 21, 2023 10:56 am

So far this series is Spolstra putting on a coaching clinic and our guy and the players not smart enough to counter anything. You know it’s a game of runs and adjustments, for some reason, their star comes thru and they get good looks (good coaching) and we collapse (bad rotations, freezing certain players, no adjustments) and sadly Tatum and Brown have no place to go with no guidance or they just had bad games, but don’t worry Joe will put their capes back on. He’s just rope a doping them, waiting to execute his best strategy, no worries.

by **sinus007** Sun May 21, 2023 11:39 am

Hi,
Sorry, but I have to sprinkle a little gasoline on "Get rid of Joe" fire.
As Shamrock said - Joe is over his head. He doesn't or can't understand that he has to play chess not checkers. Or he just can't play chess.
He had the whole year to learn, adjust and re-adjust. Now is not the time to do that. It's do or die time. And against a very strong opponent.
So, if the Celtics brass really want to get #18 they need to realize that probability to do it with Joe at the helm is very low.

AK

by **Pumpsie Green** Sun May 21, 2023 12:45 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Boy, alot of coaches here on this board. Are you all on the payroll??? Joe will be back,, but I am not sure some of these players will. Sure, Jaylen and Horford have had a rough road here, and it is one of the main reasons that we are behind 0-2. Some of those shots taken were so forced it was ridiculous. Stop with the 3 Al, it is not going down. But I have one thing to say, Grant had a good game in one way, but, I now know why he is sitting so much. He cannot keep that mouth shut. Talk about poking the bear.....he did a great job of that last night. Butler must have had a real laugh at the end of the game thinking about him. That mouth just keeps going and going, up and down the court. He could tick off anyone, that is not being active, it is being stupid. Shut up and play ball, I am almost sure you may be somewhere else next year because even your teammates cannot stand it I will not give up, this team has had it's back against the wall before. Time will tell.

Yup. He is likely coming back. But I would rather he didn't. I don't want another year of "yes, I made a mistake and I apologize for it" from him. Let him get off his training wheels somewhere else. There are a lot of good coaches looking for a job out there.

by **Celtics17** Sun May 21, 2023 3:28 pm

Everyone is in agreement Joe is way in over his head, but are we just going to fold our tents and go home? We will see, but I think our players have to overcome the coaching disparity and play hard and execute whatever game plan they are handed and let the chips fall where they may. It’s our only chance. If that doesn’t work them management has to do the right thing to maximize this teams future, and this is as talented as a team as we have had in awhile.

by **RosalieTCeltics** Sun May 21, 2023 4:21 pm

watch the coaching moves in the off season. Ben Sullivan and one other coach, closely aligned with Ime will probably be gone. Look for an new assistant coach with experience to sit beside Joe next season, and if he does not like that move, that is the only way I can see him going. The guy is 34 years old, intense to the core, and needs a strong hand beside him. When Stoudemire left, that hand was gone. Got to wonder, was Stoudemire's relationship with Ime the reason he was not offered a coaching job??? I know Mazzulla is highly regarded around the league, Brad brought him in a couple of years ago. This playoff series has proven that he needed a seasoned person sitting beside him. I just am saying, they will probably never let him go until December/January, if the team stutters again. Big moves in the off season??? I wonder, we really thought we had made them this year. Kind of scary watching this game tonight and hoping the the "other" Celtics show up. I may sit this one out and watch in quuiet. The nerves are killing me and I tend to talk to much. You guys can take this one home for the winner.

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