Re: Report: Celtics Pursuing Kristaps Porzingis Trade

by **jrleftfoot** Fri Jun 23, 2023 9:17 pm

By all accounts, Walsh is relentless. Can't wait.

by **bobheckler** Sun Jun 25, 2023 12:11 pm

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2023/06/celtics-expected-to-sign-kristaps-porzingis-to-two-year-extension-report.html

Celtics expected to sign Kristaps Porzingis to two-year extension (report)

Published: Jun. 24, 2023, 6:15 p.m.

By Brian Robb | brobb@masslive.com

The Celtics officially landed Kristaps Porzingis for at least one year via a three-team trade on Friday but they are reportedly looking to give him a home for far longer.

According to Substack’s Marc Stein, the Celtics are ‘strongly expected’ to give Porzingis a two-year extension this offseason. Porzingis opted into a $36 million player option for the 2023-24 season on Wednesday night ahead of a deadline but Boston will be appeal to offer him a two-year extension worth up to $77 million as soon as the first week of July.

Brad Stevens did not directly speak about extension talks when speaking about the Porzingis acquisition on Thursday night but signaled the team sees him as a long-term fit.

“We hope so,” Stevens said when asked about a Porzingis’ extension eligibility. “You know, we’ll see how that stuff all works itself out. but he’s a guy that we think can certainly be a really good player. He’s been a really good player this far and has only gotten better. I

" think to me, that’s the part that really stands out. Sometimes when you’re the fourth pick in the draft and get all these accolades and all this attention and all these eyes and you’re going through your growth process, there’s some ups and downs. But he’s at a point where he’s starting to, I think, really play at his best I’ve seen. So we hope so.”

Boston gave up the No. 35 overall pick and Marcus Smart in a three-team trade to land Porzingis, landing two first round picks from the Memphis Grizzlies as part of the deal. Boston turned one of those first round picks into Jordan Walsh and four future second round picks on draft night.

Porzingis is expected to be introduced by the Celtics at a press conference in Boston later next week.

“You’ve heard me talk about our playing big, playing long,” Stevens said. “Kristaps can play with any combination of our players. He can play with Rob (Williams), he can play with Al (Horford), he can play as a standalone 5. He has just gotten better and better and better. ... He was already good, but he just took another step. He can play defensively the way we want to.”

Bob
MY NOTE: Because we got KP while he still had a year on his contract we get his Bird Rights too, which allows us to spend more to extend him. This article is saying he's likely to sign a 2 year extension for $77M, $38.5M/year. So a slight raise over the $36M he's getting this year.

In a somewhat related issue, Steve3344 has been nagging me to let the board know that the 65 games KP played last year were not limited by injury, but by tanking. He would post this himself but his fingers are broken. The Wiz wanted to tank so they held him out for about half a dozen games. So he could have played over 70, if they let him, and 70+ games is quite a few. Jayson Tatum, whom we all know hates to sit out, played 74, which would have put KP right up there with him. Jaylen played 67, Al played 63. Grant, the player we're probably going to have to lose because of KP, played 79, but he played a total of 2045 minutes in those 79 games while KP played a total of 2120. 75 more minutes than Grant, so when KP was playing he was a workhorse @ 32.6mpg.

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by **bobheckler** Sun Jun 25, 2023 2:41 pm

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2023/06/celtics-aided-by-looming-jazz-threat-in-kristaps-porzingis-trade-report.html

Celtics aided by looming Jazz threat in Kristaps Porzingis trade (report)

Published: Jun. 25, 2023, 2:09 p.m.

By Brian Robb | brobb@masslive.com

The Celtics were facing a time crunch when it came to acquiring Kristaps Porzingis in a trade with the Wizards last week. The big man needed to opt into a $36 million player option with the Wizards by midnight on June 22nd for Boston to have a path to acquire him. Ultimately, an indirect looming threat from a familiar face helped the team get a deal done with Washington.

According to a report from NBA insider Marc Stein, the Utah Jazz were “poised” to make a strong offer to Porzingis if the 7-foot-3 big man decided to decline his player option with Washington and become an unrestricted free agent.

If Porzingis went that route, the Celtics would have had no chance to acquire the former All-Star (a sign-and-trade would not have been workable under the apron/hard cap). However, it was also evident that the Wizards, per Stein, were worried about the possibility of losing Porzingis for no compensation in free agency. That possibility kept the team motivated to get a deal done with Boston even after an initial three-team construct fell apart on Wednesday with the LA Clippers.

Ultimately, after the Clippers pulled out of the deal on Wednesday due to their concerns about Malcolm Brogdon’s health, the Celtics found a new third team in the Grizzlies to make a deal work. Boston sent Marcus Smart to the Grizzlies, Memphis sent Tyus Jones to Washington along with draft picks to Boston while the Wizards netted the No. 35 overall pick as well from the C’s for taking on the contracts of Danilo Gallinari and Mike Muscala.

It’s questionable exactly how exactly Porzingis would have fit in the Jazz frontcourt alongside a pair of promising bigs in Walker Kessler and Lauri Markkanen but Danny Ainge has shown he’s not shy on buying low on free agent or trade assets during a rebuild. He landed Evan Turner, Isaiah Thomas among others on bargain deals during the Celtics rebuild last decade which led to promising results on the court ahead of schedule. The Jazz have potentially $47 million in cap room to spend this summer so they were a legitimate threat to make Porzingis a big offer if he hit the market.

Instead, their looming presence as a threat may have helped the Celtics land the big man who reportedly had Boston as his preferred destination this offseason.

Bob
MY NOTE: Danny just can't help himself. He keeps helping his old team even when he doesn't intend to. LOL.

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by **jrleftfoot** Sun Jun 25, 2023 7:13 pm

Just saw a video of Bob Ryan's response to the trade. Basically, he's okay with trading Marcus, but doesn't care for Zinger as a player. His description of Zinger's game was wrong to the point of absurdity. According to Ryan, he's just " another guy that chucks up threes." I'm not even going to go into detail regarding the absurdity of that statement. It's obvious that he hasn't watched Porzingas play in, well, just about forever.Personally, I think Ryan has exceeded his sell by date. It happens to everybody. If you are going to express your opiniion for money, pay some freaking attention.Ryan had a great career, but you have to know when to hold them and when to fold them. Fold them ,Bob, or watch some games. Prepare for your appearances by watching what you are going to opine about.

by **dboss** Sun Jun 25, 2023 9:34 pm

jrleftfoot wrote:Just saw a video of Bob Ryan's response to the trade. Basically, he's okay with trading Marcus, but doesn't care for Zinger as a player. His description of Zinger's game was wrong to the point of absurdity. According to Ryan, he's just " another guy that chucks up threes." I'm not even going to go into detail regarding the absurdity of that statement. It's obvious that he hasn't watched Porzingas play in, well, just about forever.Personally, I think Ryan has exceeded his sell by date. It happens to everybody. If you are going to express your opiniion for money, pay some freaking attention.Ryan had a great career, but you have to know when to hold them and when to fold them. Fold them ,Bob, or watch some games. Prepare for your appearances by watching what you are going to opine about.

foot

I have agree with you. Even if you did not watch KP play, his stats reveal that 31% of his FGA are 3 pointers. Ryan's opinions defy actual facts. He is still living in the past. The game seems to have passed him by.

by **cowens/oldschool** Sun Jun 25, 2023 10:06 pm

jrleftfoot wrote:Just saw a video of Bob Ryan's response to the trade. Basically, he's okay with trading Marcus, but doesn't care for Zinger as a player. His description of Zinger's game was wrong to the point of absurdity. According to Ryan, he's just " another guy that chucks up threes." I'm not even going to go into detail regarding the absurdity of that statement. It's obvious that he hasn't watched Porzingas play in, well, just about forever.Personally, I think Ryan has exceeded his sell by date. It happens to everybody. If you are going to express your opiniion for money, pay some freaking attention.Ryan had a great career, but you have to know when to hold them and when to fold them. Fold them ,Bob, or watch some games. Prepare for your appearances by watching what you are going to opine about.

I saw a highlight video and saw plenty of tough baskets in traffic from this season. A nice lefty dunk on AD stood out to me. This is not the same frail kid the Knicks asked to carry the franchise. Cuban made a huge mistake, Zinger may have been still recovering from injuries, but Luka and Zinger needed better coaching and Cuban should have been more patient. I’m looking forward to see how J’s can make his game easier and how he can help the J’s both ends too.

by **dboss** Sun Jun 25, 2023 11:19 pm

On paper, I see a great fit. However our new big 3 need an above average distributor to pass out the cookies.

KP has an excellent midrange game and he gets to the line.

He was ranked 3rd in scoring among centers.

by **worcester** Mon Jun 26, 2023 8:32 am

Yes, Marcus was our best at distributing the ball even though that skill of his was not top notch. With three great scorers we need a quality distributor, someone like Phil Pressey was - only 6" or 7" taller!

by **bobheckler** Wed Jun 28, 2023 10:42 pm

FYI, Z will wear 'Toine's #8, because he sure as Hell can't wear his usual #6.

Bob

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by **Ktron** Wed Jun 28, 2023 11:32 pm

dboss wrote:
jrleftfoot wrote:Just saw a video of Bob Ryan's response to the trade. Basically, he's okay with trading Marcus, but doesn't care for Zinger as a player. His description of Zinger's game was wrong to the point of absurdity. According to Ryan, he's just " another guy that chucks up threes." I'm not even going to go into detail regarding the absurdity of that statement. It's obvious that he hasn't watched Porzingas play in, well, just about forever.Personally, I think Ryan has exceeded his sell by date. It happens to everybody. If you are going to express your opiniion for money, pay some freaking attention.Ryan had a great career, but you have to know when to hold them and when to fold them. Fold them ,Bob, or watch some games. Prepare for your appearances by watching what you are going to opine about.

foot

I have agree with you. Even if you did not watch KP play, his stats reveal that 31% of his FGA are 3 pointers. Ryan's opinions defy actual facts. He is still living in the past. The game seems to have passed him by.

Ryan may have some opinions we don't agree on but the game has hardly passed him by. (What does that actually mean?)

He has been around a long time and maybe his standards are similar to some of the other old timers like Cousy. Doesn’t mean he’s wrong. Just means you disagree.
I guarantee you he’s watched Porzingis and thats what he sees. Whether he’s totally wrong about KP’s impact on the C’s remains to be seen.
I don’t always agree with Bob but I respect Ryan and am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

by **worcester** Wed Jun 28, 2023 11:43 pm

When we were on Boston.com I sent him emails about the Celts, and he always responded politely and promptly. I was really impressed by that. I think he's wrong about Z, but generally he's right on.

by **Ktron** Thu Jun 29, 2023 8:08 am

More on the Ryan comment:

It appears the there were several other folks giving Ryan the blues over his comment.

Ryan did imply that about KP standing in the corner shooting 3’s but he did elaborate on it later.

First off he admitted not watching KP last year in Washington where he did post up more.
His explanation, “No I did not watch him last year and no I wasn’t interested in watching the Wizards”.

Other than the Celtics games, how many here had a hankering or even watched the Wizards last year?

The other factor is that when KP was in Dallas, Coach Carlisle insisted that KP park his narrow ass in the corner and shoot 3’s.
KP wanted to post up more but Coach Carlisle insisted otherwise.

Bob also admitted being somewhat shortsighted regarding KP because he had not seen him
Play last year and should have before making the statement.

Another reason why I’ll always give Bob the benefit of the doubt.
He’s never afraid to admit when he is wrong.

by **cowens/oldschool** Thu Jun 29, 2023 9:04 am

worcester wrote:When we were on Boston.com I sent him emails about the Celts, and he always responded politely and promptly. I was really impressed by that. I think he's wrong about Z, but generally he's right on.

I used to respond with Peter Vescey of the New York Post. One time he so agreed with one of my posts to him, he even put my name in his column in the paper

by **worcester** Thu Jun 29, 2023 9:38 am

Vescey was a real journalist, unlike so many hacks nowadays.

by **bobheckler** Thu Jun 29, 2023 9:56 am

Ktron wrote:More on the Ryan comment:

It appears the there were several other folks giving Ryan the blues over his comment.

Ryan did imply that about KP standing in the corner shooting 3’s but he did elaborate on it later.

First off he admitted not watching KP last year in Washington where he did post up more.
His explanation, “No I did not watch him last year and no I wasn’t interested in watching the Wizards”.

Other than the Celtics games, how many here had a hankering or even watched the Wizards last year?

The other factor is that when KP was in Dallas, Coach Carlisle insisted that KP park his narrow ass in the corner and shoot 3’s.
KP wanted to post up more but Coach Carlisle insisted otherwise.

Bob also admitted being somewhat shortsighted regarding KP because he had not seen him
Play last year and should have before making the statement.

Another reason why I’ll always give Bob the benefit of the doubt.
He’s never afraid to admit when he is wrong.

ktron,

According to basketball-reference.com, under 'Shooting', 35% of Porzingis' fgas were 3s last year. 95% of his 3ptrs were assisted, meaning he didn't ball hog and shoot (by comparison only 64.6% of Jayson Tatum's 3s were assisted, meaning that 35.4% were all about him) and, get this, only 5.3% of his 3s were corner 3s. He hit them @ 52.6%.

In his first year in Dallas 4% of Z's 3s were corners, so about the same, but he "only" shot 37.5% from there. His 2nd year in Dallas, however, he took a career-high 6.2% of his 3pt fgas from 3 (still pretty low, but high for him) but he shot 62.5% from the corner! So, maybe Rick Carlisle was onto something?

I've seen Z take a lot of straightaway 3s from on top, a harder shot, but not many from the corners, and these stats prove my eyeballs were right. The decision as to whether we want our center to be in the corner where he cannot rebound nor get back on defense vs having him shoot from there when he appears to be an excellent shot from there (52.%!) is a decision for Joe to make. It makes more sense if he's going with double bigs. Then one of them can stay back where they can retreat on defense. 37.8% of Al's 3s are corner 3s, and he hit them @ 48.8% last year. RWill, as we all know, dooesn't take 3s. A double big with either Al (48.8%) or Z (52.6%) in the corner could really open the floor up for cutters. You can't put a guard out there in the corner to challenge a shot by either Al or Z, they can shoot over them too easily. Defending them with someone with size pulls that size out of the paint. BTW, 42% of Grant's 3s were corners and he shot 42% from there. Nobody seemed to have a problem with him parking in the corner, did they?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porzikr01.html

Bob

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by **Ktron** Thu Jun 29, 2023 5:03 pm

bobheckler wrote:
Ktron wrote:More on the Ryan comment:

It appears the there were several other folks giving Ryan the blues over his comment.

Ryan did imply that about KP standing in the corner shooting 3’s but he did elaborate on it later.

First off he admitted not watching KP last year in Washington where he did post up more.
His explanation, “No I did not watch him last year and no I wasn’t interested in watching the Wizards”.

Other than the Celtics games, how many here had a hankering or even watched the Wizards last year?

The other factor is that when KP was in Dallas, Coach Carlisle insisted that KP park his narrow ass in the corner and shoot 3’s.
KP wanted to post up more but Coach Carlisle insisted otherwise.

Bob also admitted being somewhat shortsighted regarding KP because he had not seen him
Play last year and should have before making the statement.

Another reason why I’ll always give Bob the benefit of the doubt.
He’s never afraid to admit when he is wrong.

ktron,

According to basketball-reference.com, under 'Shooting', 35% of Porzingis' fgas were 3s last year. 95% of his 3ptrs were assisted, meaning he didn't ball hog and shoot (by comparison only 64.6% of Jayson Tatum's 3s were assisted, meaning that 35.4% were all about him) and, get this, only 5.3% of his 3s were corner 3s. He hit them @ 52.6%.

In his first year in Dallas 4% of Z's 3s were corners, so about the same, but he "only" shot 37.5% from there. His 2nd year in Dallas, however, he took a career-high 6.2% of his 3pt fgas from 3 (still pretty low, but high for him) but he shot 62.5% from the corner! So, maybe Rick Carlisle was onto something?

I've seen Z take a lot of straightaway 3s from on top, a harder shot, but not many from the corners, and these stats prove my eyeballs were right. The decision as to whether we want our center to be in the corner where he cannot rebound nor get back on defense vs having him shoot from there when he appears to be an excellent shot from there (52.%!) is a decision for Joe to make. It makes more sense if he's going with double bigs. Then one of them can stay back where they can retreat on defense. 37.8% of Al's 3s are corner 3s, and he hit them @ 48.8% last year. RWill, as we all know, dooesn't take 3s. A double big with either Al (48.8%) or Z (52.6%) in the corner could really open the floor up for cutters. You can't put a guard out there in the corner to challenge a shot by either Al or Z, they can shoot over them too easily. Defending them with someone with size pulls that size out of the paint. BTW, 42% of Grant's 3s were corners and he shot 42% from there. Nobody seemed to have a problem with him parking in the corner, did they?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porzikr01.html

Bob

.

Grant standing in the corner vs a 7-3 Center standing in the corner is slightly different.
I don't mind KP shooting corner 3’s but I believe he will have a greater impact on the team playing mostly inside.

It’d be great if he can strategically employ both. That, I believe will make us much better.
We definitely don't need him parked there and I don’t think Joe will play that card but who knows.
if Joe does than KP will not have the impact we need.

by **dboss** Thu Jun 29, 2023 5:10 pm

I recall that him standing in the corner was not what he wanted to do in Dallas.

by **bobheckler** Sun Jul 02, 2023 12:40 pm

https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/nba/boston-celtics/why-kristaps-porzingis-extension-has-high-reward-potential-for-celtics/540968/

Why Kristaps Porzingis extension has high-reward potential for Celtics

The reported two-year extension for Porzingis could end up being a bargain if he stays healthy.

By Chris Forsberg, Celtics Insider • Published July 1, 2023 • Updated on July 1, 2023 at 11:45 am

Kristaps Porzingis shares his initial feelings when learning he would be a Boston Celtic and what he hopes to bring to the team

The Boston Celtics launched into the new league year by agreeing to an extension with a core piece of their roster — just not necessarily the one that we thought would be in the spotlight.

While we wait to see if Jaylen Brown signs the most lucrative supermax contract in NBA history, the Celtics reportedly came to terms on a two-year, $60 million extension with recently acquired big man Kristaps Porzingis.

Landing a heading-into-their-prime center coming off maybe the best season of their NBA career at below-market rate simply does not happen. While so much of this pact will be judged on whether Porzingis is able to stay healthy for the duration of the deal, and the Celtics are rolling the dice while extending without seeing the fit next to their other core players, there is good chance this could look like a bargain deal.

Adding the extension to the $36 million final year of Porzingis’ current pact, the Celtics essentially added the 7-foot-3 big man on a 3-year, $96 million deal, so an average annual value of $32 million. For the 2024-25 season, when Porzingis’ new extension starts, there is a chance he will rank outside the top 50 most expensive contracts in the league.

Again, there are undoubtedly injury and fit risks. The Celtics will eventually have a very bloated cap sheet as supermax extensions for Brown and Tatum would begin before the end of Porzingis’ deal. But compare the price point for Porzingis to other deals inked on the first day of free agency and it feels thrifty.

Porzingis would have been the best available big man on the market if he opted out of the final year of his current deal. Instead, he signed with Boston for $17 million less than his max possible July extension. With another healthy and productive season, it’s not outrageous to think Porzingis could have commanded $40-plus million per season as an unrestricted free agent next summer. The Celtics are banking on his health; Porzingis is sacrificing money with a chance to be part of a legitimate contender.

In Dallas, the Mavericks spent $126 million over three years to bring back 31-year-old, drama-infusing Kyrie Irving. In Milwaukee, the Bucks spent $102 million while crossing their fingers on 31-year-old Khris Midldeton’s balky knees.

The Celtics, meanwhile, extended Porzingis at a number lower than his AAV from the original supermax contract he signed in 2019. Players at Porzingis’ age, size, and potential rarely leave money on the table.

The extension mitigates some risk for Boston. The Celtics surely didn’t want to move Marcus Smart for a one-season rental. If, for any reason, the fit doesn’t work with Porzingis in Boston, the Celtics could easily move a healthy Porzingis in a trade, especially in a league where $50+ million salaries will eventually be the norm for top-end talent.

The long-range cap forecast also gets a little less cloudy with Porzingis on the books at reasonable money.

If Brown’s supermax deal pays him the full 35 percent supermax, his starting salary for the 2024-25 season would be roughly $52 million. With Porzingis’ new deal, the Celtics would be committed to roughly $117 million overall for a Big Three when including Tatum's $34.9 million salary in the final year of his rookie extension. That’s 78 percent of the total cap for the 2024-25 season but still leaves the team $84 million below the supertax threshold. Getting off Malcolm Brogdon’s salary next summer would leave Boston committed to only $46 million in remaining salaries in Derrick White, Robert Williams III, Al Horford, Sam Hauser, and Oshae Brissett.

The Celtics are set up to potentially dodge the second apron in each of the next two seasons before having to make tougher financial decisions when Tatum’s supermax launches in the summer of 2025.

The Brissett signing on a minimum deal infuses a high-energy, low-cost wing who will provide deep depth behind the Jays. His impressive game against Boston in February 2022 was reason enough to roll the dice.

Boston’s free-agent focus shifts back to Brown now. The team was able to put a five-year, $300-plus million supermax deal in front of him as soon as the calendar flipped to July. Both sides have motivation to put ink to paper.

The other lingering question: What happens with Grant Williams? As cap space evaporates around the league, the Celtics will wait to see what sort of offers Williams receives in restricted free agency. The ability to pay Williams long term likely hinges on whether Brogdon sticks on the roster, this after the Celtics tried to deal him in the first iteration of the Porzingis trade.

If Boston doesn’t want to hardcap itself by using the $5 million taxpayer midlevel then the team is limited to minimum contract signings like Brissett this summer. The Celtics will hope that, as the market plays out, veteran players might choose championship potential over a slightly larger payday.

Bob
MY NOTE: Z taking a pay cut from the $36M he opted in for this year, after having perhaps the best year of his career, is HUGE.

.

by **jrleftfoot** Sun Jul 02, 2023 3:47 pm

Ktron wrote:
dboss wrote:
jrleftfoot wrote:Just saw a video of Bob Ryan's response to the trade. Basically, he's okay with trading Marcus, but doesn't care for Zinger as a player. His description of Zinger's game was wrong to the point of absurdity. According to Ryan, he's just " another guy that chucks up threes." I'm not even going to go into detail regarding the absurdity of that statement. It's obvious that he hasn't watched Porzingas play in, well, just about forever.Personally, I think Ryan has exceeded his sell by date. It happens to everybody. If you are going to express your opiniion for money, pay some freaking attention.Ryan had a great career, but you have to know when to hold them and when to fold them. Fold them ,Bob, or watch some games. Prepare for your appearances by watching what you are going to opine about.

foot

I have agree with you. Even if you did not watch KP play, his stats reveal that 31% of his FGA are 3 pointers. Ryan's opinions defy actual facts. He is still living in the past. The game seems to have passed him by.

Ryan may have some opinions we don't agree on but the game has hardly passed him by. (What does that actually mean?)

He has been around a long time and maybe his standards are similar to some of the other old timers like Cousy. Doesn’t mean he’s wrong. Just means you disagree.
I guarantee you he’s watched Porzingis and thats what he sees. Whether he’s totally wrong about KP’s impact on the C’s remains to be seen.
I don’t always agree with Bob but I respect Ryan and am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

You don't know what the game has passed him by means and I don't know what doubt Ryan should be given the benefit of. Porzingas is not a guy that just stands in the corner chucking threes, and that's exactly what he said. I knew that and I am not being paid for my opinion Objective truth is objective truth. We must have seen him on different shows.I saw him on Around The Horn and he didn't equivocate. By the game has passed him by, I meant that he no longer appears to be putting the effort in to learn what he is talking about. I don't know if the Around The Horn participants are given the questions ahead of time or not, but it should have been pretty obvious that the Porzingas question would be asked. Perhaps studying up on the anticipated subject matter would have been a good idea. This isn't the first time I have seen Ryan over his head, on that show, regarding modern sports questions. He was an excellent columnist at one time. I feel I was quite a good criminal defense lawyer.I quit when I no longer had the urge or the stamina to adequately prepare to defend my clients. Nobody's freedom depends on Bob Ryan, so if he wants to continue pontificating, that's fine with me. I just sort of feel embarrassed for him at times.

by **worcester** Sun Jul 02, 2023 6:35 pm

JR...If I ever need a criminal defense lawyer, I will be calling you for a recommendation.

by **jrleftfoot** Sun Jul 02, 2023 6:53 pm

[quote="worcester"]JR...If I ever need a criminal defense lawyer, I will be calling you for a recommendation.[/quote thanks, worcester. I sincerely doubt that day will ever come

by **jrleftfoot** Sun Jul 02, 2023 7:26 pm

Actually, it was boss who said the game had passed him by. I said he had passed his sell by date, which is maybe a little too mean. I have absolutely nothing against Bob Ryan. Enjoyed his column for years.This is off point, or at the very least attenuated, but there was a legendary lawyer named Henry Carr. Always dressed in an impeccable white suit. My first year of practice, he had a murder case in Key West and all us neophytes rushed to the courtroom,eager as hell to see him in action. It was a disaster.He kept losing his train of thought, overlooking obvious avenues of crossexamination, and doddered around the courtroom like he was lost It left a lasting impression with me. I was determined not to go out like the great HC.I guess that attitude has stuck with me in other areas too. I remember Mickey Mantle limping around on one leg and finishing his career playing first base. He ended up with a career average of .298 and said his biggest regret was not ending up a .300 hitter. I regretted that too. Saw a mediocre pitcher named Jim Hannan strike him out five times in a game at RFK stadium and went home in tears. Sorry for the digression.Wat I am trying to say is that have a lot of respect for the work Ryan did through the years, but would prefer him to call it a day, but, of course, that's his decision to make, not mine. Maybe some of y'all still enjoy his work. I just envy his full head of hair. B###tard.

by **Ktron** Sun Jul 02, 2023 7:48 pm

jrleftfoot wrote:
Ktron wrote:
dboss wrote:
jrleftfoot wrote:Just saw a video of Bob Ryan's response to the trade. Basically, he's okay with trading Marcus, but doesn't care for Zinger as a player. His description of Zinger's game was wrong to the point of absurdity. According to Ryan, he's just " another guy that chucks up threes." I'm not even going to go into detail regarding the absurdity of that statement. It's obvious that he hasn't watched Porzingas play in, well, just about forever.Personally, I think Ryan has exceeded his sell by date. It happens to everybody. If you are going to express your opiniion for money, pay some freaking attention.Ryan had a great career, but you have to know when to hold them and when to fold them. Fold them ,Bob, or watch some games. Prepare for your appearances by watching what you are going to opine about.

foot

I have agree with you. Even if you did not watch KP play, his stats reveal that 31% of his FGA are 3 pointers. Ryan's opinions defy actual facts. He is still living in the past. The game seems to have passed him by.

Ryan may have some opinions we don't agree on but the game has hardly passed him by. (What does that actually mean?)

He has been around a long time and maybe his standards are similar to some of the other old timers like Cousy. Doesn’t mean he’s wrong. Just means you disagree.
I guarantee you he’s watched Porzingis and thats what he sees. Whether he’s totally wrong about KP’s impact on the C’s remains to be seen.
I don’t always agree with Bob but I respect Ryan and am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

You don't know what the game has passed him by means and I don't know what doubt Ryan should be given the benefit of. Porzingas is not a guy that just stands in the corner chucking threes, and that's exactly what he said. I knew that and I am not being paid for my opinion Objective truth is objective truth. We must have seen him on different shows.I saw him on Around The Horn and he didn't equivocate. By the game has passed him by, I meant that he no longer appears to be putting the effort in to learn what he is talking about. I don't know if the Around The Horn participants are given the questions ahead of time or not, but it should have been pretty obvious that the Porzingas question would be asked. Perhaps studying up on the anticipated subject matter would have been a good idea. This isn't the first time I have seen Ryan over his head, on that show, regarding modern sports questions. He was an excellent columnist at one time. I feel I was quite a good criminal defense lawyer.I quit when I no longer had the urge or the stamina to adequately prepare to defend my clients. Nobody's freedom depends on Bob Ryan, so if he wants to continue pontificating, that's fine with me. I just sort of feel embarrassed for him at times.

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With all due respect, If you are going to jump on Ryan about not studying up on a subject matter, practice what you preach.

If you were that concerned about what Ryan said why not check and see if there is a follow up to that statement.
People make mistakes. Yes, Ryan does make mistakes but he is entitled to them more so than you and I. His years of excellent reporting and writing speaks for itself. THAT’s where the benefit of the doubt comes in for me.

Just so you know, I saw what Ryan initially said too. A day or so later on his podcast he explained himself and admitted he had made a mistake in reducing KP to a 3pt shooter. Feel better now?
If you’re gonna a slam someone, please, at least follow up and keep up.

Also, I have watched KP his entire career and when he was in Dallas that’s exactly what Carlisle had him doing most of the time. Stand outside and shoot 3’s. KP didn’t want to me relegated to that but Carlisle insisted.

He did not do that in Washington and thats where Ryan relented and said that he did not see him play in Washington.

You have a problem with his mistake and I don't. Let’s call that even.

As far as “The game passing someone by” meaning ‘he no longer is putting the effort in’ is short-sighted.

You don’t know how much work he puts in because you don't work in his field.
Thats like you losing a criminal case and someone who never practiced law saying the same that criminal law has passed you by.

I hear that about coaches and players all the time and I ask because there is no way to determine that as a fan.

There are a lot of clowns out there disguised as media folks and i don't like it.
There are also folks like Ryan who have been one of the best in the business for years. Mistakes, notwithstanding, I’ll always defend those folks because I have a wee bit of an idea the kind of work they put in.

Peace and hair grease..sir.

by **Ktron** Sun Jul 02, 2023 8:03 pm

jrleftfoot wrote:Actually, it was boss who said the game had passed him by. I said he had passed his sell by date, which is maybe a little too mean. I have absolutely nothing against Bob Ryan. Enjoyed his column for years.This is off point, or at the very least attenuated, but there was a legendary lawyer named Henry Carr. Always dressed in an impeccable white suit. My first year of practice, he had a murder case in Key West and all us neophytes rushed to the courtroom,eager as hell to see him in action. It was a disaster.He kept losing his train of thought, overlooking obvious avenues of crossexamination, and doddered around the courtroom like he was lost It left a lasting impression with me. I was determined not to go out like the great HC.I guess that attitude has stuck with me in other areas too. I remember Mickey Mantle limping around on one leg and finishing his career playing first base. He ended up with a career average of .298 and said his biggest regret was not ending up a .300 hitter. I regretted that too. Saw a mediocre pitcher named Jim Hannan strike him out five times in a game at RFK stadium and went home in tears. Sorry for the digression.Wat I am trying to say is that have a lot of respect for the work Ryan did through the years, but would prefer him to call it a day, but, of course, that's his decision to make, not mine. Maybe some of y'all still enjoy his work. I just envy his full head of hair. B###tard.

Good point, you watched someone in your line of work stumble and bumbled and knowing what you know even as a neophyte saw that he was not the same. It’s still up to him when he should call it a day. When folks stop hiring him it will be an involuntary calling.

Mickey limping around probably bothered you as a fan more than it bothered him. You being a fan of his want to see him go out on top. Thats what we as fans like to see.
However, we can’t suggest someone call it quits because we think they’re done. Thats their career not ours.

I said the same thing to my boss one day about a morning radio Personality that was in his early 70’s. I said. “Why doesn’t he just retire and go home”. My boss looked at me and said, “Who’s says? You? Thats his career not yours”.
I liked the guy, even idolized him but he was slipping. A few years later he was given his skates and thats only because his ratings started heading south. I too would rather had seen him walk away on top but thats his business, not mine.

Anyone that gets older is going to lose something no matter what they do. Folks like Ryan and Hubie brown may slip every now and then because of it but I have seen and heard much younger folks in their prime make mistakes. More often than not. I’m less tolerable of them.

by **dboss** Sun Jul 02, 2023 9:50 pm

Ryan like so many other writers that are from an older generation have tons of experience but still cannot wrap their heads around all the changes to the NBA game.

They seem to analyze the game from a perspective that has passed in terms of its' relevancy to the way the game is played today.

I have heard his comments quite a bit but the recent instance in particular was more about not doing your homework on a big time Celtics acquisition.

He realizes now that his profile on zinger was not accurate and he admitted that.

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