I’d Really Like To Hear your Opinion- Why Do You Think That So Many Top Tier NBA Players Don’t Want to Come To Boston?

I have my theory but I’d like to hear your’s first

WHY?




WHY??

bobheckler wrote:1.  Boston fans can yell racist things at players.  Nobody likes that, nor should they be subjected to that.  Anybody caught doing that should be dramatically frog-marched out of the arena and banned for life for any/all events at that arena.  Put it on the Jumbotron and, if necessary, have the PA system pipe in boos.  I would hope Celtic fans would be classy and aware enough that help from the PA isn't necessary but, if it is, then do it.  Make sure the miscreant is vilified as a loser and not a martyr or social media influencer.  Sorry, but I have zero tolerance for that bullshite.  Zero.  I almost got into a fight with a black guy once because he continued to use the 'N word' after I repeatedly asked him to stop and, as everybody knows, I'm not black.

2.  They've seen the Celtic front office callously dump the very popular "Little Guy" Isaiah Thomas after he played his heart out for us and trade born-to-be-green Marcus Smart without warning.  In fact Marcus had been told he was safe.  Compare that to Pat Riley keeping Udonis Haslem on the Heat squad years after his expiration date came and went.

3.  State taxes are high in MA.  Florida has no state income tax and local sales taxes max out at 8%.  When you're a bazillionaire living in gated communities in rich towns/neighborhoods the public services financed by higher taxes don't matter to you at all.   The infrastructure where you live is top quality, there are no homeless people or crime.  How many elite free agents have we seen sign with Toronto?  It isn't just the weather, and it certainly isn't because Canadians are rude.  It's the taxes.  But how about California?  Why do players want to play for the Lakers or Clippers?  The taxes in CA are quite high.  It's the year-round weather, of course, as well as the opportunity to hobnob with Hollywood celebrities.  Up north, in Dubs Country, it's Silicon Valley.  If you are a 21st century entrepreneurial type of individual being introduced to VC firms and tech innovators like we have here is catnip.  If I was the Celtics I would put together a program that introduces players (and, even more importantly, their agents) to the movers-and-shakers of Route 128.  Let it be known that the money they will be paid by the Celtics is just the tip of the iceberg.

On the other side of the ledger we have Al Horford who not only left his longtime home of Atlanta to come to Boston and was, and has continued to be, thrilled to be back.

I do agree, however, that this could/is an issue.  While we hate Kyrie he's respected by his peers because of his talents, and he in(famously) went out of his way to step on the logo at midcourt.  That was a statement that every player in the league saw.  

Since this preceeds Brad's reign I'm thinking it's a Wyc/Pags thing.  Danny was like that too, but Danny was a trader and everybody knew it.  Did Danny teach Wyc/Pags or did Wyc/Pags impose this upon Danny?  Well, it didn't take much time for Danny to gut the Jazz, did it?  Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert, crowd favorite Joe Ingles, all moved so fast you could have missed it.  Red was famous for his loyalty to players (although he did trade Max, which shocked the Hell out of Cornbread).  Danny is also equally famous for telling Red that he should have traded Bird and McHale while they still had value.


Bob


.

Many great points here Bob. I’ll give my entire take after I hopefully hear more from our other breathren.

I would like to briefly address your point #1.

True it stinks to watch and/or hear those things at any event.

Many Boston ‘fans’ are guilty of this. But it’s been my experience that Boston is not much worse than any other arena or ballpark I’ve been to.

Comparison doesn’t excuse another's bad behavior. It’s bad no matter how many are doing it. Fact is…

As we all know, the perception of Boston being over the top racist was partially born out of the bussing issue back in the 60’s.

(We only heard about Crispus Attucks getting his because like Wilts 100, there is no film)

The entire country also saw a Black man get beat down by an American flag held by a so-Called Patriotic racist.
These and other issues were implanted and made to look worse than what was going on in Watts at the same time.

The picture was painted, framed and nailed to the wall for all to see for decades and has yet to be erased.

I’ve gone to Texas Ranger games, Dallas Cowboy games, Atlanta Braves and Falcons games, Hawks games, SMU vs. Grambling football, Red Sox, Celtics and Bruins games and even the old Savannah Sand Gnats minor league baseball games.

While attending events at each of those I witnessed: Cecil Cooper’s family get attacked by Racists fans in Arlington, TX after Cecil hit a HR. during a Rangers game.
Heard Emmet Ashford (The first AA umpire called a “Hot Spook” in Fenway.

Heard the Sand Gnats called Sand N-word’s because they had a player that “looked” Arab.
I have heard it all in every venue of every city I ever worked or lived in.

The only place I never heard any of that was at a Boston Bruin’s game. Of course we know why but who knows what the Gallery God’s were saying behind my back. I was probably 1 out of 3 AA’s in the entire arena. Never had or heard anything of issue while attending Bruins games.

So it’s everywhere and it’s bad.

Boston can fix this if they put the effort in. Your suggestion is one that would contribute heavily from a player standpoint (maybe not so much the fans).

Boston needs to stop acting like the past is the past and really spend money and time with a lengthy and detailed campaign promoting Boston as a more diverse city with opportunity. (Dallas is and still is the most segregated city I have ever lived in. (More on that in synopsis)

Promote the Elma Lewis’ of today and the Reggie Lewis Center and all that it does to accentuate the positive. Promote it with a well thought out campaign nationally and internationally. In time the past will go away replaced by the positive.

What also helps is that all of us old heads that grew up there along with the deceased Louise Day Hicks and Dead Dapper O’Neil will also be dead and stinking.

Hopefully the perception of “Bad to be Black in Boston” will be lying in a Mass graveyard dirt napping with the rest of the stench.

(Sorry I went too long. My final synopsis may need to be done in chapters)

Team fit, delusional fathers, team fit, it is cold, team fit, annoying fans, team fit, cap space, team fit, toxic talk radio etc.

Mostly team fit.  KG came here after he liked the team fit, but not until.  Hayward was that year's prize free agent, he came.  AD had a numb-ass dad, whatever.

Dame?  Who really knows his true thought process?  But let's pretend we know and go down this rabbit hole.

Name me multiple times that a top free agent had the opportunity to sign (open cap space) and decided not to come.  I'll not hold my breath.

The tax issue really isn't as simple as home city:

https://thehustle.co/why-athletes-and-some-remote-workers-owe-a-jock-tax-wherever-they-go/

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2020/3/13/21147553/pro-athlete-baketball-taxes-cpa-accountant

For nerds only:

https://huskiecommons.lib.niu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2164&context=studentengagement-honorscapstones

Perceptions, good or bad are most difficult to change.

We need to understand that some players and many fans from other teams have a hatred for the Boston Celtics because of their history of winning.  Most of the players that go there embrace the culture of the city and they love the franchise.  There are issues in Boston as there are in other cities.  How many times have we read comments from the other side that are filled with accusations of racism on the part of the celtics and the city where their franchise is located?

I do think that the weather plays a big part.  California and Florida are always going to have an edge because of their weather.

Ktron you and I grew up in Boston.  Would you move back there if you had a choice to move somewhere else while maintaining your lifestyle?

Celtics fans pissed me off when they repeatedly want some guy to come and he flatly rejects the idea.  How many time did the KD trade come up and how many times were Celtics fans and the sports media more than ready to trade Jaylen?

The IT situation was not a very good look.  It reflected poorly on the Celtics.   Players and fans see that happening and think it is not right.   It had nothing to do with racism but it appeared to be a callous decision.

I am not going down this road, I have my own opinion, you guys have yours, (and rightfully so)...Whatever the reason these so called superstars claim to have for not wanting to come here, I find it amusing, at best. As far as management goes, we have been fortunate to have the team management that we have here, so many other teams struggle with their owners. Boston is a city fans love to hate. Winning brings that out in them, jealousy is a miserable thing. Fans that yell obnoxious derogatory things should be thrown out immediately. They make me sick

Massachusetts state income tax may be a factor.

Perceptions are hard to overcome. I know, because in the mid 60s, this long haired white boy spent one of the most miserable weeks of my life in ,I think it's called Charlestown I had been hiking the Appalachian Trail with a friend and we stopped in Boston to visit his relatives.If we went to a bar, his uncle, who was kind of an Irish mafia guy, had to make an announcement that I was half-Irish , and a friend of the family. Still got sh*t looks and every other word out of people's mouths started  with N and ended with G.  I told Mike I was over Boston and would take a bus back to the DC area. He was driving. He said " nah, I'm ready to go" to and we split. I'm not writing this to condemn the City, but to talk about the longetivity of perception. I have been a Celtic fan all my life and have seen them play in Miami, Orlando , Sacramento, San Francico and Washington .I know Boston is a lovely city , but I have never had the slightest desire to go back there. I have two mixed race grandsons who identify as black 1; because it's their choice and 2; because, even if they didn't want to, that's how they would perceived in America. They would tell me the Celtics were the white guy's team and I would tell them the Cs  were the first team to sign a black, the first team to field an all black starting lineup, the first professional sports team with a black head coach etc. They would listen respectfully, but I don't think it gained much traction. Mind you, none of my grandsons is old enough to have seen the Larry Bird teams play, but they have formed opinions  by cultural osmosis.I don't know how much, if at all , the perception of racism affects free agency, but I'm guessing it might, on occassion.

Foot

When I left Boston for Atlanta in 1986, Boston was still a city defined by segregated neighborhoods.  Enclaves of people who shared the same ethnicities and culture.  Much of that has changed over the past 30 + years

Perhaps one of the more striking long term changes is related to gentrification.  

When my mother was growing up in Boston in the early 1900's her family lived in an area of Boston called the South End.  Over a period of decades fewer African Americans resided in the South end because of gentrification.

That process has impacted minorities more than white people.  

In pure economic terms, land closest to the center of a city demands a higher rent.  

To get a clearer picture of what happened, you would need to take a look at the history of Boston all the way back to the 1800's...  At that time free Black people lived on Beacon Hill which is located right in the heart of the city.  Those town homes (row houses) today are prohibitively expensive except for the people with a lot of money.

Other areas of Boston continue to experience gentrification.   Places like Charleston, South Boston, East Boston and other areas that were predominantly white only have experienced a tremendous growth in minority residents.  So where did all the white people go?  They moved away but if they worked in the City and could afford housing they moved into areas that were previously minority neighborhoods.

People in Boston still have a tendency towards segregating themselves.  

The caveat however is driven by economics.  As minorities have achieved higher levels of education and a corresponding increase in their income, the issue of class becomes more obvious.  Housing restrictions are illegal so if you have the money you can live anywhere you want to.  Racism does not automatically disappear for those with a healthy bank account.  Racism remains deeply embedded in the fabric of American society.  For African Americans,  racism is built into formula for overcoming obstacles.

Interesting subject, and the responses have been very informative.Thanks.

Great dialogue all.
The discussion has been healthy without a lot of the political stuff.
People in general are really interesting and how they come top certain conclusions is even more compelling.

Sports is a good topic for integrating issues such as this.
I’m looking forward to hearing more!

ps: I believe most off these pro players are clueless when it comes to anything outside the bubble they live in.
I think that’s why its so easy for scammers to get money out of lots of them.

No idea whats out there.

Add the 9% MA income taxes to the memories of racism in Boston and you have reasons why the Celts have had troubles signing top free agents...

But not Danilo, Gordon, and Zinger - the not so curious exceotions to the rule...

First, a bit of history:

Every notable Boston Celtics free-agent signing, by year

https://clutchpoints.com/every-notable-boston-celtics-free-agent-signing-by-year

The Celtics have won 17 championships in franchise history. That's the result of the front office in Beantown making smart decisions.
By

Ashish Mathur
Jun 10, 2020 at 8:38 PM EDT
3 min read

The Boston Celtics have won 17 championships in franchise history. That's the result of the front office in Beantown making smart decisions on draft night, during trade season, and free agency.

For this piece, we focused on the Celtics' history with free agents. The organization has been around since 1946, so upon researching and reviewing a good amount of Celtics news, we've come up with this list of the C's previous transactions

October 14, 1963

The Celtics signed Larry Siegfried, a combo guard who averaged 11.6 points and 3.3 assists in 446 games with the franchise.

Siegfried won five championships with Boston.

October 28, 1965

Don Nelson signed with the Celtics in 1965 after beginning his career with the Chicago Zephyrs and Los Angeles Lakers. Nellie put up 11.4 points and 5.2 boards over 11 seasons with Boston.

Nelson made the Hall of Fame in 2012 as a head coach. As a player, he won five rings with the Celtics.

September 28, 1977

Hall of Famer Dave Bing played one season with the Celtics in 1977-78. He put up 13.6 points and 3.8 assists before calling it a career.

July 24, 1979

The Celtics signed M.L. Carr as a veteran free agent. He averaged 6.3 points and 2.3 rebounds over 363 games with the franchise and won two titles.

January 22, 1980

Legendary point guard Pete Maravich signed with Boston to end his Hall of Fame career. He put up 11.5 points and 1.1 assists in 26 games during the 1979-80 campaign.

Maravich made the Hall of Fame in 1987.

September 10, 1992

The Celtics signed Xavier McDaniel after the rugged forward played one season with the New York Knicks. He averaged 11.3 points and 5.1 rebounds in 232 games with Boston.

July 25, 1994

One of the best dunkers in NBA history, Dominique Wilkins signed with the Celtics and played one year in Boston.

The Human Highlight Film averaged 17.8 points, 5.2 rebounds, and 2.2 assists per game during the 1994-95 season.

July 28, 1997

The Celtics inked Bruce Bowen, who went on to become a key player for the San Antonio Spurs later in his career.

Bowen averaged 4.5 points and 2.5 boards in 91 games with Boston.

March 4, 2005

Boston signed Hall of Famer Gary Payton as a free agent. The Glove put up 11.3 points, 6.1 assists, and 1.1 steals during his lone campaign with the Celtics.

February 27, 2009

Stephon Marbury‘s final season in the NBA came with the Celtics. He appeared in 23 games and averaged 3.8 points before going to China and becoming a superstar.

July 8, 2009

Rasheed Wallace joined Boston, eager to help the franchise win another ring. He put up 9.0 points and 4.1 boards during the 2009-10 season.

The Celtics wound up losing to the Lakers in the 2010 NBA Finals.

August 4, 2010

Boston added Shaquille O'Neal, but this wasn't The Diesel fans saw in Los Angeles or Miami.

O'Neal averaged 9.2 points and 4.8 rebounds in his one year with the Celtics. He retired after the 2010-11 campaign.

September 29, 2014

The Celtics signed Evan Turner, who averaged 10.0 points, 5.0 rebounds, and 5.0 assists during his two-year run in Beantown.

July 8, 2016

Al Horford joined the Celtics after his stellar run with the Atlanta Hawks. The All-Star appeared in 208 games with Boston and compiled averages of 13.5 points and 7.0 rebounds.

July 14, 2017

Boston lured Gordon Hayward away from the Utah Jazz since the Celtics had his old college coach, Brad Stevens.

Hayward has averaged 13.6 points in 118 games in Beantown so far. He only played five minutes during the 2017-18 season after suffering a gruesome leg injury.

July 17, 2019

The Celtics signed Enes Kanter after acquiring Kemba Walker from the Charlotte Hornets in a sign-and-trade deal involving Terry Rozier.

__________________________________________________

My comments:

That list is not inspiring, many of the FA signings were for players on their way out of the league.  Still, there were a couple of gems among all that cubic zirconium.

This was buried in my earlier post and the wording could have been better, but here is my question, reworded:

Please name the times that a top free agent had the opportunity to sign in Boston with open cap space and decided not to come.

This is the issue: having cap space to sign a top free agent.  The Celtics have not had cap space all that much recently (last 10-15 seasons and more), so of course we did not sign any top free agents during that time.

I'll add to the list:

Top players that accepted a trade to Boston and extended:

KG
Porzingis
any more?

Top FAs or other players that reportedly would not come to Boston:

ADavis
KDurant
Dame
any more?

Are there any other players that have expressed a distaste of Boston?

Since Danny came here to run the show, how many times did he clear the roster by whatever means necessary in order to sign a top free agent?  Never?  It is hard to sign a top free agent if you never have the means to do so.

Since when does a couple, maybe a handful of players that show a dislike for "playing in Boston" over decades become a trend?

It seems to me that this issue is more likely to be a perception issue, brought up more by the CBP media and fans and not so much by the players.

Holy friggin' cow.

Our friend gyso does it again.

One of the smartest guys I know.

I need make no further comment. I buy it and I can't come close to that effort.

NYCelt and Bob,

Thanks.  This discussion comes up periodically and Sam used to be the guy that made this argument.  And he wasn't even a salary cap guy, he just had a way with facts and statistics and didn't see a correlation here.

Name me one player who came here after playing somewhere else that did not show joy at the idea of playing in Boston.  They talk about the fans, the excitement of playing in the Garden, the history, etc.

Name me some players who left here by trade or free agency who spoke ill of the City of Boston.  No, most of the negative comments are aimed at team management.  Danny and Brad.  There are always exceptions, like Jae Crowder, who felt disrespected by the fans.  There may be more, but still not enough to make a trend.

Let's add KD to the list of top FA that rejected an opportunity to sign with Boston.

gyso good work on documenting who wanted to come and who did not.

However there is no way for us to really know how many FA's did not want to sign with Boston or how many players that could be traded did not want to come to Boston because of their perception of the city.  So much goes on behind the scenes that we just do not know.  You cannot statistically quantify the impact.

The issue remains the same.  There is a very strong perception that Boston is more racist than other cities and because of that NBA players may not want to join the team.   That cannot be quantified.

I reject the notion that Boston is more racist than other cities but at the same time through my experience and conversations over the years with people from Boston and other places, the belief exists.   The premise is that Boston is a racist city therefore that racism must somehow be embedded in their sports team.  The Celtics have historically proven the opposite.  Unfortunately, the perception has not changed as much as we would hope for.

dboss,

How did I miss KD?  I'll add him to the post.

You can statistically quantify the impact.

In the last 20 years, we had cap space in 5 (estimate) of them.  In those 5 years, we didn't sign KD and AD and we did sign Sheed, Al Horford and Hayward.  KD is "special" and AD's dad hates Boston, so those two had their own reasons for not signing with us.  The other 15 years don't count because we didn't have space and therefore there was no offer to refuse.

The "perception" is in the minds of the fans and their friends (as you say), and in the media.  I propose that the "perception" is not in the minds of the players, in general.  There is always an exception or two (AD, Dame), but who else as a player has ever said anything like this?  IMO, in today's social media world, if it happened, it is out there.

And I'm not seeing it from the player's side of it.

gyso wrote:dboss,

How did I miss KD?  I'll add him to the post.

You can statistically quantify the impact.

In the last 20 years, we had cap space in 5 (estimate) of them.  In those 5 years, we didn't sign KD and AD and we did sign Sheed, Al Horford and Hayward.  KD is "special" and AD's dad hates Boston, so those two had their own reasons for not signing with us.  The other 15 years don't count because we didn't have space and therefore there was no offer to refuse.

The "perception" is in the minds of the fans and their friends (as you say), and in the media.  I propose that the "perception" is not in the minds of the players, in general.  There is always an exception or two (AD, Dame), but who else as a player has ever said anything like this?  IMO, in today's social media world, if it happened, it is out there.

And I'm not seeing it from the player's side of it.

gyso

ktron referenced top tier FA and not every tom, dick and harry.   The responses have deviated from his inquiry, admittedly.

The perception that Boston is a racist city is really not a perception.  It is a well documented fact.   However the perception that said racism extends to the Boston Celtics is simply not true.

I do not think we can really quantify why a FA top tier or otherwise chooses one franchise over another.  Players are not always going to discuss all the elements of their decision making so there is no way to accurately quantify why those players would choose another team over the Celtics.

Not having CAP space is somewhat mythical.

How many high end free agents have signed with LAL or requested a trade to that team.  LAL always manages to find CAP space to sign the cream of the crop elite players or make trades for them year after year.   I'm just saying.  I am using LAL as an example simply because they are the Celtics #1 rival for winning titles, historically.

Bob, I lived in or near Boston in the 60's when forced busing was moving Black students into formerly all white schools in South Boston. That became a rabid racist sh#t show for too many from Southie, and I think that's the origin of much of the racist experience - that and the exclusion of Blacks from most of the construction trades. Erroll Paige was a good friend of mine, a lifelong Celtic fan, and the first Black to force the federal government into requiring that construction projects in Boston funded in any way with federal dollars HAD to have some Black contractors and workers.

 My home town of Worcester was run in many ways by leaders of the John Birch Society, and they made sure that when the Mass Pike was built around 1957 that it skirted Worcester (the second largest city in the Commonwealth) by a good ten miles. Why? To keep Black people out. Our population of 200,000 was only 1% Black. This is well-documented. Times and population mixes have changed since the 50's, but red-lining was a perfected art back then.

Also, don't forget the torture some of his neighbors in Reading MA put Bill Russell through. That is a story still remembered deeply.

However, times are better now. Not perfect, but better.

I think we can all say that we have learned a thing or two by opening up this dialogue.
(Don’t stop now)

Didn’t know that about Worcester, Worcester. Thank you sir.

It’s a conversation that I have had with un-Celtic types more times than I can remember.

The one advantage that I have is that I grew up and spent my first 14 years of life in Roxbury, a predominantly African American community and moved to Lexington, a predominantly white community at the age of 14 where there were a total of 6 African American students during my freshman year and 2 of them were me and my twin.
The Metco program brought in more African American students but percentage wise African American students were still in the lower single digit percentile.
As I stated in earlier posts, head BB coach Rollie Massimino took I liking to me and kicked my butt when need be and it wasn’t  always over basketball.
It was also about grades and my being a wise ass getting into it with teachers and even the athletic director who I didn’t know who he was and he really doing know me.

I cannot recall why he wasnt around much but I was trying to get into the gym for practice one day during Christmas break and he stopped me and asked what i was doing there.
Of course, I mouthed off to him and asked him the same question and also called him a bald headed midget.
Hell, I didn’t know him from a can a paint and I felt that he was insinuating that I didnt belong there and was probably breaking in the building.
Anyway, Massimino tore me a new one and not because I was talking  smack to the athletic director. It was more of me insulting and disrespecting an adult by calling him names. Once I learned who he was (Doc Able) and what he was I avoided the little runt because even though I was wrong for what I said, he too was wrong for profiling me.

Other coaches and players made many attempts to marginalize me (i was the only African American on the 5 teams we had. Freshman A Freshman B, sophomore team, JV and Varsity.)

Massimino was not aware of all of what was happening well below him and I understand why (my brother never did.)

Mass was head of basketball but varsity was his team and his main focus. he relied on his coaches maybe more than he should have but I never faulted him for that.
I was average at best anyway and lost interest later on during my senior year and a lot had to do with how I was treated by the other coaches and some of my teammates.

I consider that to be my first reality check into how differently one can be treated if you’re not ‘one of them’.

I say I have an advantage because I have seen how differently we reacted to police presence in Roxbury and how differently the reaction to police presence was in Lexington.
The Officer ‘Friendly’ were gentlemen that everyone knew and were a part of their community. A friendly wave was to be had by all.

In Roxbury it was totally different. We were afraid when a cop car came by and we damn sure didn't know who was driving.

Two total opposites. Two different experiences that I can speak on with first hand knowledge and experience.
It certainly comes in handy when discussions come up about law enforcement and how Great some folks feel about them.
They're not familiar with the differences because they’ve only experienced one side of it.
It would behoove everyone to spend more time reading and learning the differences.

Sorry, I regressed a bit but that experience helped shape who I am and how I see things.
As I said before I have lived in so many different cities and states and have witnessed similar behavior in each and every one.

PERCEPTION!
Our perceptions are shaped by our prior experiences, our interests and how we process information.
Of course this can cause one person to perceive the exact same situation differently than someone else.

I believe that Boston and The Celtics are are victims of social perception.
That being how people perceive certain societies and it can be affected by stereotypes and generalizations.

It stereotypical to imply that Boston is more racist than say a Los Angeles.
Boston has been stereotyped through the lens of the 60’s and the generalization AND stereotype here is that because Boston is racist and so the Celtics are racists too.
It’s based on what people have seen and heard about the city. People who have not ever lived or visited the area.
It extended to the Celtics in the 80’s when they had a majority white team.

Doesn’t Matter that Baird, McHale and Walton were HOFers. It didnt matter that this team doesn't win without DJ and Parish and their Black Head Coach KC Jones.
People refused to see that and instead honored their false perception-

‘The Celtics were a “White Boy” team and it didn't matter that this team won Titles. They were a “White Boy” team and they must have had an edge with officiating calls. The system has to be rigged in their favor. They are winning not because they're good. They're winning because they are white and highly favored’.
They were a “White Boy Team” and referring to them as that brought so some folks comfort.

I always ask the question: So, would you like to have a Bird, McHale, Ainge or Walton on your team?
Honest basketball fans who are Black without an agenda would say YES.
Others who find comfort in denigrating a team with great white players would say NO. “They aint so great! It’s the media thats propping them up and the league and the officials are part of a conspiracy and want the ‘White Boy team ‘to win.

Most of this is not based on reality.
I say ‘most’ because the media does to an extent go a bit overboard when praising certain white players.
As great as Bird was, he still had his faults but you would never hear anyone in media ever talk about it.
That still goes on today.
It doesn't mean that those players are not great. Some of them are THE greatest but yet certain media types will gas them up to the point of over hype.

Thats society. People want to see people that look like them succeed. Even to the point of making observations that are very obvious to the naked eye or making observations through stats and advanced metrics that the average fan cannot understand or relate to.
Media does help accentuate this to an extent.

The one other thing that bugs me is how they compare one white player to another.
So and so reminds me of Larry Bird. And Black players- so and so reminds me of Michael Jordan. Players are players. Why must color come into it when the similarities are really not so similar.

Media types can also paint a picture that is absolutely false and have many folks believe it because again, it reassures what they’ve been thinking and that thinking brings them comfort.

EXAMPLE:
Many years ago Jason Whitlock wrote a piece about the Celtics and Larry Bird. The piece talked about Larry Bird and why the Celtics had so many White players on those mid to late 80’s team.

Whitlock wrote that one of the reasons the Celtics had so many white players was that Red Auerbach wanted to make sure that Larry Bird was [comfortable] with who he played and roomed with on the road.

This was a nothing short of a bold face lie!

At that time I was managing WIGO radio in Atlanta and I called Jason, who at the time was writing for Fox Sports.

Jason did not return a call.

I then wrote Jason a letter.

Jason never responded.

I later send a direct message to him through his link and Jason never responded, nor did he post my comment.

My message to Whitlock was:
Red Auerbach did not add white players on the team to appease Larry Bird.
Fact is back in the 60’s Red made it a point to make sure that a Black player and white player room together on the road.

I never heard back because Jason planted that lie with purpose.
Any reputable, well intended and honest journalist would had responded with either something to back their premise up or admit that a mistake was made and went ahead and corrected it.

Jason couldn’t do either because neither applied.
Jason made up the story. Jason lied. Plain and simple.

I’m sure there are others who do that but for the most part they are fished out, found out and in some instances sent out.
Far too many are able to get away with this without impunity.

Red did that knowing that there was a cultural difference and he wanted his players to understand the difference or lack of and for them to get to know each other on a person to person basis.
I went as far as to send “Whitless” the article where Red stated that fact.

Still never heard back from Jason and still haven’t.

These types are a small minority but they are loud, they are rabid and dangerous.

The naive fan feeds into this and perceptions are developed based on false information.

THE I.T. FACTOR

“I.T. Played his heart out”
“I.T.’s Sister died and he had a game for the ages.
“I.T. Was the Celtic's best player by far”
“I.T. got hurt”
“I.T. Couldn't finish out the playoff run”
Celtics lost the Eastern Conference Finals 4-1 to the Cavaliers

Celtics trade an injured I.T. (And others) To Cleveland for Kyrie Irving.

I.T. Remained injured, had surgery and was never the same player again.

PERCEPTION:
I.T. Played his heart out.
I.T.Played through his sisters death while losing teeth in the process.
I.T. Limped off and was sent packing.

PERCEPTION AND SUMMATION:

Celtics are cold blooded. Celtics abused IT and when he could no longer finish out the playoffs they traded him via a phone call.
During the same transaction, Jae Crowder was traded with the Celtics knowing that Jae’s mom had just passed away.
Celtics sign Gordon Hayward
Celtics are cold blooded, racist and heartless. Stay away from them.

No. It did not look good. The narrative fit the preconceived perception.

Fact is any GM worth their salt would have made that trade.
We all love Thomas and wanted him to stay but it we all knew Kyrie was a better player.
Who knew its would’ve turned out the way it did.
It was later learned that IT intimated that the C’s were not transparent with him on the extent of the injury but the damage was already Done.

Later Anthony Davis’ Papa had a free for all with this and suggested that his son would not play for the Celtics acknowledging the IT factor.
Davis’ daddy’’s reaction was knee jerk and non factual.
He was strictly going by what he had heard.
Did he ever pick up the phone and call Ainge?
Did he ever pick up the phone and call Thomas?
Davis was destined for the Lakers but what Davis’ father said help feed another false perception.
I don’t recall anyone criticizing, Denver, Cleveland, Washington, Charlotte or LA for cutting Thomas loose.

LA ALL DAY:

Speaking of such.
I have numerous African American friends and associates refer to the Celtics as Racist but “love them some Lakers”.

I ask: How many African American Head Coaches have the Lakers employed and don't count Magic Johnson he wasn't there long enough for a cup of coffee on both occasions. If I'm not mistaken Ham is #3. Compare that to the C’s. 7.

How many African Americans front office folks have been employed by the LA Lakers?
Again, don't you dare try and include Magic Johnson!

Hmmm Keisha Nix “VP of Charitable events”. hmm that sounds powerful

Dr. Karida Brown, “Director of racial equity and action”. Hmmm shouldn't they be looking in their own backyard first?

Never mind. Dr. Brown stayed 2 years and bolted to Atlanta.

Correct me if im wrong but I know of no others.

Celts have had at least 6 that I know of, Satch, ML, Leon Powe, JoJo White, Alison Feaster, Dana Barrows.

Elgin Baylor a Laker from day one had to walk across the street where Donald Sterling hired him but the Lakers didn't have a spot for him?
If Sterling hired Baylor what does that say about the Lakers?

But yall “love you some Lakers”.

When we really think about it, how many free agents have publicly stated that they do not desire to play in Boston.
Not very many have publicly stated this. It doesn’t mean there are not more who aren’t saying because there probably are.
We can only go by what we hear and see and in reality there have not been that many.
Personally i think there is more but the reasoning may not be whats been generalized regarding fan behavior and racial undertones.
Dboss made a point of this. We don’t know and either way without word it’s mere speculation.

KD did give the celtics serious consideration.
AD did not. Daddy and Bron make sure of that.

Who else are we were certain of?

Dame? I don’t think he even knows at this point.

Leonard was traded. He doesn’t talk much so we don’t know for a fact if Boston was an option.
Best believe if he went to Toronto he would have come to Boston but Boston didn’t enter into the sweepstakes apparently.

Harden was a collaboration and not a serious contender on either side.
So as far as we know for sure there have only been a few.

I agree with Gyso’s point of the weather being a factor. Fit can be one as well.

The Tax thing is a topic that I think Carries  more water weight than anything else.
A player wanting to play in Texas because there are no state tax is buying onto fools gold and needs to hire a new agent.

There is no state tax in Texas but property taxes are higher than a Snoop Dog.  Depending on what area or county you choose to squat, a 400k house can run you close to 10-12k a year in property taxes.
Thats Masssachusetts. NY and California  zip code cash.

Top that off with a 6.5 state sales tax that also includes local option taxes that can raise that rate to 8.25.
I personally have always paid 8.25 on anything I have purchased that included tax.

Today’s player may lean toward a Miami or LA location and again weather is a factor but lifestyle is a bigger factor.
There is perception and there is reality that Miami and LA lifestyles are glamourous.
Lots to do, warm weather, women. Many of the award shows are televised from LA there’s Hollywood where everyone thinks they’re Hollywood.

I worked with 6 air personalities that visited LA and came back with a new nickname Michael “Hollywood” Hernandez, DJ Hollywood, Cedric Hollywood etc. These guys were about as Hollywood as Festus from Gunsmoke but you couldn’t tell them that.

I had another radio personality tell me that his goal was to work in LA. He was in Houston and was wanting to work in LA. He wanted it bad.
He finally got a job out there and it wasn’t 2 weeks before he called and said how much he hated it out there and wanted out.
His words: “I hated it as soon as I pulled into the station parking lot”.
His perception turned into reality and the reality was that this place sucks and ain’t for me.

So players buy into the glamour and make major decisions based partly on that. Many live to regret it but who’s telling. They’re not.
Boston is not considered glamorous. It is to me but I long ago stopped bouncing that ball.
Neither is DC
Neither is Philly
Neither is Orlando and it damn sure ain’t Charlotte.
So whats the problem? What’s the real deal?

BACK IN THE DAY BUFFET:

If we look back to the 70’s and 80’s the opposite holds true.

Red pulled an Embry, made a Baily Howell a Dave Bing.

Red made numerous trades to keep the team championship run ready.
I don’t recall anyone we traded for balking at coming.
Most relished the thought of winning.
It’s just something that a lot of today’s players don’t do and thats another reason.

Here is something that is not a real fact. Not an alternative fact. It’s my fact and I am sticking to it:
Dame has a far better chance of winning a championship with the Celtics than he does with the Yo-ami Heat. Brown or no Brown.

Dame has stayed in Oregon this long, evidently winning was not priority one.



I GOTTA GO I GOTTA LEAVE SO PLEASE  THEY’RE MAKING IT SO HARD FOR ME.

How many players in Boston got here and wanted out????

Ok Kyrie but WTH, he doesn’t want to be anywhere but home.
He only signed with Dallas because as Bobby Womack used to sing “Had no place to go”

Gyso’s point about salary cap is a factor but it’s not a restraint. A team can go over the salary cap. Other teams have done it. We did not need to or want to or vice versa.
The C’s just did not. In many cases they made the right decision.

So I surmise that the whole free agents ‘don’t want to pay in Boston’  really Whittles down to a few and there are several reasons mentioned by everyone here. Several legit reasons but it shouldn’t be alarming.

Let us not forget the Chicago’s, Memphis’ New Orleans, Detroit, Toronto’s, Minnehaha, Portland, Washington and even Philly’s of the world.
They’re not exactly mega magnets themselves.

Ktron is an impossible act to follow. He has covered an incredilble amount of ground in a very convincing essay. I probably shouldn't say anything and just let his comment wrap things up, but I have one small additional point to add. No less than five of the Laker championships were won in Minneapolis when George Mikan was their big star and the NBA was a white man's league.

What superb intellects we have contributing to this site. Better than Sports Illustrated.

David Aldrich quality. Thanks