Post Game - Celtics at Raptors - Friday, November 17 (W)

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Post by gyso Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:05 pm

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Post by gyso Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:31 pm

Celtics-Raptors takeaways: Total team effort in C's second In-Season Tournament win

https://sports.yahoo.com/celtics-raptors-takeaways-total-team-032048495.html

Justin Leger
Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 10:20 PM EST·4 min read

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Celtics-Raptors takeaways: Total team effort in C's second In-Season Tournament win originally appeared on NBC Sports Boston

Three Key Storylines

Brown, Porzingis don't miss a beat
Horford, White step up in clutch
A total team effort

The Boston Celtics earned a narrow victory on Friday night to remain undefeated in the inaugural NBA In-Season Tournament.

They traveled to Toronto and outlasted the Raptors for their second win in the Group Stage, 108-105. It marked their fifth consecutive victory altogether.

For the updated Group C In-Season Tournament standings, go here.

The C's took a 16-point lead into the half but the Raptors erased the deficit with a dominant third quarter. It was a back-and-forth affair throughout the final frame, but a few clutch shots down the stretch gave Boston the edge.

Jaylen Brown returned after missing Wednesday's game and dropped 23 points, tied for the game-high. He was one of seven Celtics to score in double figures.

Pascal Siakam and Dennis Schroder notched 23 points apiece for Toronto.

The Celtics will look to make it six straight wins when they visit the Memphis Grizzlies -- who will be without old friend Marcus Smart -- on Sunday night. First, here are our takeaways from Friday's game.

Jaylen Brown, Kristaps Porzingis don't miss a beat

Brown (illness) and Porzingis (knee contusion) were absent for Wednesday's win over the Philadelphia 76ers, but they sure looked healthy on Friday.

Brown picked up where he left off with a 12-point first half and was the Celtics' most consistent offensive player throughout the night. Porzingis did a little bit of everything for Boston on both ends of the floor.

Their two-man game was on display early and often as well. The two connected for a beautiful alley-oop in the second quarter.



Brown led the C's with 23 points on 9-of-14 shooting (3-5 3-PT) and four assists. Porzingis tallied 14 points (6-13 FG) but he was most impactful in the paint. He racked up 12 rebounds and three blocks, including this block that resulted in a Brown lay-up on the other end.

Surprisingly, this was Porzingis' first game with double-digit rebounds game this season. He accomplished the feat by the 8:03 mark of the third quarter.

Al Horford, Derrick White step up in clutch again

Horford and White were the heroes in Wednesday's win over Philly, and it was déjà vu in Toronto.

With Tatum struggling (8-22 FG, 1-11 3-PT), the Celtics needed to look elsewhere for clutch shots down the stretch. Per usual, Horford and White were up for the challenge. Horford drained two consecutive huge 3-pointers -- one of which put Boston ahead -- in the fourth quarter.



White, coming off a 14-point fourth quarter against the Sixers, stepped up again in crunch time. He came through with what turned out to be the game-winning 3-pointer with 27 seconds remaining.



These two continue to have a knack for coming through in big moments.

Horford ended up with 11 points (3-4 3-PT) in 23 minutes off the bench. White finished with 13 points (4-10 FG, 3-8 3-PT) and five assists.

Total team effort

There wasn't one star who stood out for the C's in this one. Almost every player who took the court for Boston had at least one key moment.

Seven Celtics players scored in double figures, including all five starters. Horford and Sam Hauser (11 points, 3-6 3-PT) were the other two.

This win perfectly summed up the new-look C's impeccable chemistry. The best example came to close the first half, when beautiful ball movement resulted in a Tatum 3-point buzzer-beater.

That was Tatum's only 3-point make of the game. It was a rough shooting night for the superstar, but the Celtics overcame it with contributions from the rest of its loaded lineup. Brown paced the team in scoring, Porzingis shined on both ends, Horford and White came through in crunch time, Jrue Holiday (14 points, eight rebounds, five assists) did a little bit of everything, and Hauser started red-hot from beyond the arc.

With so many weapons, it's no surprise the C's are 10-2 and winners of five straight. They'll look to keep it going Sunday in Memphis.


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Post by gyso Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:47 pm

From another perspective:

Raptors summon their best, but it wasn't enough against a better Celtics team

https://torontosun.com/sports/basketball/nba/toronto-raptors/raptors-summon-their-best-but-it-wasnt-enough-against-a-better-celtics-team

Frank Zicarelli
Published Nov 17, 2023 • 4 minute read

“Close but no cigar,” Red Auerbach made famous when he coached the Celtics.

The Raptors gave it all they could and even tried to summon more against a quality Boston team.

Playing valiantly, showing an ability to respond when all things looked bleak, there was a lot to like on this night.

There’s no consolation in losing and clearly the Celtics present matchup problems, areas Toronto cannot, at least for now, overcome.

Whether it’s size in the backcourt, being much more on point in crunch time, the Celtics have a clear edge and it showed following Boston’s 108-105 victory as Toronto dropped to 1-2 on its four-game homestand that wraps up Sunday with a visit by the Detroit Pistons.

Once again, the Raptors were minus O.G. Anunoby (lacerated finger), but they did, as expected, welcome back Gary Trent Jr., who had been dealing with a foot injury.

Trent Jr. started with rookie Gradey Dick emerging as the first player coming off the bench.

Unlike some recent games, the Raptors began the night by playing with force and energy to take the lead after the first quarter.

Boston dominated the second quarter, but then came a Raptors revival led by Pascal Siakam and Dennis Schroder.

Schroder had been struggling with his stroke, but there were no issues during a frenetic and electric stretch when he routinely drained three-pointers.

In the third quarter, Siakam and Schroder combined to score 19 of Toronto’s 32 points in what turned out to be a very competitive night when it looked like Boston would run the Raptors off the floor.

When the teams met in Boston last Saturday night, the Celtics cruised to a 117-94 win on a night the Raptors went a miserable 10-for-37 from distance.

There was nothing miserable to Toronto’s game Friday night as the Raptors made their debut in the NBA’s in-season tournament.

When they fell behind, the Raptors responded.

When the night turned tout, the Raptors did not shrink in a back and forth battle that wouldn’t be decided until very late.

In a game with so close with the margin for error so thin, ever possession loomed large.

A miss on the offensive end followed by a late close out allowed the Celtics to take advantage of a clean look from three-point range that gave the C’s the lead.

With a foul to give, the Celtics smartly fouled Scottie Barnes.

The game came down to the final 13.2 seconds in a one possession game.

On a side out of bounds play, the ball went to Barnes, whose good look from three-point range would not drop.

Toronto was forced to foul Jrue Holiday with 8 seconds on the clock and in desperate need of help.

The first-year Celtics guard calmly stepped up to the line to seal the deal.

SPICY SITUATION

The Raptors rolled the dice when Siakam picked up two fouls in the first quarter.

They elected to keep Siakam in the game, but he would soon pick up his third.

He was limited to eight minutes in the first period, a stretch that saw Siakam score eight points on 4-of-5 shooting.

The Raptors kept Siakam on the bench for the entire second quarter when the visitors began to take control by outscoring Toronto 39-17.

For the record, Toronto led 24-18 when Siakam picked up his third foul with four minutes remaining in the first.

In the 16 minutes Siakam was not on the floor in the first half, the Celtics outscored the Raptors 47-25.

PRIDE OF REXDALE

Dalano Banton made his first trip back to the 6ix as a member of the Boston Celtics.

Drafted 46th overall by the Raptors in 2021, Banton stayed true to his roots when he selected jersey No. 45, the same number he sports as a member of the Celtics.

As a kid growing up in Rexdale, Banton rode the No. 45 bus that served the community.

When he played for the Raptors, Banton had his share of moments, whether it was running an offence from the point or using his length and athleticism on defence.

On a much deeper Boston team with legitimate title aspirations, Banton serves in a complementary role coming off the bench.

A video tribute was shown prior to tipoff.

Fellow Canadian Oshae Brissett, whose brother Dejon plays for the Argos, is also a member of Boston’s bench brigade after he decided to leave Indiana in free agency.

In three years with the Pacers, Brissett averaged 8.1 points and 4.5 rebounds.

He saved some of his best games when Indy visited Toronto knowing family and friends were in attendance.

BUZZER BEATERS

Chris Boucher extended his three-point streak to five games when he buried a look from beyond the arc in the opening quarter …

Otto Porter Jr., who started Monday’s game when Washington, his former team, was in town, was unavailable Friday night because of personal reasons …

One of the features of the NBA’s in-season tournament involves the court and how teams have used different designs that stretch the limits of taste; in comparison to some rather gaudy colour tones, the Raptors’ choice to go with a black and gold look was very appealing to the eye; those on TV may have noticed the changing colour tones on their screens, which was caused by the arena’s lights; those in attendance did not experience what some called a psychedelic experience …

The Raptors wore their city edition uniform …

After making a combined six three-pointers in the game’s opening 24 minutes, the Raptors buried four straight to begin the third quarter in a span of three minutes …

Toronto began the game by turning the ball over once in the opening period only to commit five in the second quarter.

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Post by bobheckler Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:19 am




Why did the Toronto coach keep putting Schroder on Z? I like Dennis but he's no Jrue Holiday. He can't defend 7'3" Porzingis like the way Jrue defended 7' Embiid. 5 assists, 2 turnovers and 12 boards for The Unicorn.




Jay King @ByJayKing
yesterday
Jaylen Brown said he slipped and might have strained his groin. He said the In-Season Tournament court was slippery all game. He called it “unacceptable” and said the NBA needs to make sure safety is an emphasis before somebody gets seriously hurt.


7 of 8 Celtics in double digits, only one over 20 and that was in the low 20s. 29 assists, that's a lot, on 42fgm for a 69% assist-to-fgm ratio. Every Celtic had at least 2 assists. That is a perfectly balanced offence.


Stats Time!!

Offense:

5th best offense (118.4ppg)
4th fewest turnovers/game (12.eight)
#1 in blocks against (i.e. we get blocked the fewest number of times/game)
#1 in rebounds/game


Defense:

5th best defense (we give up 105.9ppg)
5th fewest in ftas allowed (19.8 ftas/game given up to our opponents)
3rd best defensive fg% (43.9%, only OKC @ 43.6% and Minny @ 43.4% are better)
7th in 3pt fg% given up.
4th in opponent's assists (23.6/game)


There are areas we need to improve upon. We are 2nd in fouls committed, we are 16th in assists and 4th in turnovers. We are 16th in assists but 7th in fgm which means our assist-to-turnover ratio isn't that good. Too much iso ball.

Having said all this winning cures a lot of ills. At 10-2 we have the best record in the NBA, with the World Champion Denver Nuggets hot on our heels at 9-3 and tied with Philly at 9-3.


Bob


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Post by dbrown4 Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:47 am

While it is true this was an all-out team effort, make no mistake.  All Hail Derrick White.  Nuff said.

Great game.  Probably a lot closer than we all wanted it to be but having to eek one out builds character.  

You can quickly look at the stats and determine where we almost lost it.  We evenly shot 3-balls to 2-balls, both at 46, despite the TOR homer announcers touting the old, last season look of all we shoot is threes.  God, I couldn't stand those two and was glad when they finally had to shut up and take a moral victory!!

Our FG% was 45.7%.  Not bad, but that coupled with the 50/50 shooting all around and our 3-point percentage being 34.8%, nothing to write home about, implies that we should have been 2-balling and someone was way off from 3-ville.  We lost in the paint 54-40.  Not too good.  It didn't take long for us to figure someone reverted back to last season and just wouldn't stop shooting the 3.  

JT's got to adjust quicker than that when the 3's not falling.  Teammates have to stop him.  Thank God Doogie and Al came in, got hot and got the ball to try to make the 3-ball % respectable from JT's trying to blow us back to the Stone Age.  Never should have lost 54-40 in the lane.  Only 11 fouls for TOR?  Shows no one was driving to the hoop, a.k.a. no above average And 1's.  

All around great effort and a wake up call for additional work and further in-game recognition skill development of when/how quickly to change directions.  Tatum should know better.  Almost blew us out of the tournament on a game that shouldn't have even been close.

If JB did strain his groin, sit him out until Wednesday.  Not counting chickens or looking past games, but @MEM and @CHA on a B2B tomorrow and Monday would be a great time to sit him if need be.  Evidently Joe thought we needed all hands on deck for this tournament game and he was correct.  Two bottom feeders coming up before pre-Thanksgiving extravaganza Wed vs. MIL.  No mention of the "T" word as not to jinx or fulfill prophecy.  

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Post by NYCelt Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:45 am

Mazzulla is still maintaining that short, playoff like rotation.

There is nothing to dislike when it comes to White. He’s the least heralded of the starters and at times as critical a component as any of them.

Horford coming off the bench in reduced minutes, so far, looks like the key to his fountain of youth resurgence.
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Post by Celtics17 Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:00 am

D White continues to make big plays. Ice water when lining up the game winner. Just does everything we need. He won't get any All Star consideration, but he's an ace in my book.

Big Al hitting those two threes was crucial. Probably don't win this one without those timely buckets.

JT couldn't buy a three last night (1-11), but he's matured so much that took the correct shots and didn't force things. He continued to play good D and rebound.

Jaylen came through with a solid all around game. I hope he's OK. I'm sure he's going to sit at least tomorrow. The NBA really has to look at these courts from a safety aspect. They shouldn't be this slippery. There has to be something they can do to ensure they will not cause injury.
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Post by sinus007 Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:57 pm

Hi,
It's a win. Ugly but a win.
The main thing that I did not like was the floor. In simple terms - WTF! How could they put such a floor on the court that ended up injuring JB?

AK
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Post by dboss Sat Nov 18, 2023 5:23 pm

The #1 team in the NBA has found ways to win even when they are not playing great basketball.

I was surprised that CJ maintained a short 8 man rotation. Expected to at least see Banton get in the game. If you want to put stress on a player just glue him to the bench when he returns to his hometown and former team.

NBA needs to address the slick floor issue asap.

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Post by RosalieTCeltics Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:40 am

Just remember, this is one of the games last year that the Celtics may have lost. They put their foot on the gas and were determined that that ugly ridiculous floor was not going to beat them!!!! No OG, big loss for them. This could have gone alot differently, but..A win is a win is a win. On to Memphis, do not let your guard down boys!!!
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Post by dbrown4 Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:45 am

Last year, dboss, it was the TO debacle with Coach Joe.  His theme this year is the 8-man familiar playoff rotation during the regular season
!  We gotta have something to pick at!!  He hasn't hit Red status yet!  Tell ya what.  Coach Joe wins 3 titles in a row, they'll build a status of him out front of TD Garden.  I'll even help!  

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Post by bobheckler Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:23 am

I agree with the comments about Joe sticking to a short playoff roster, and I don't approve.  

On one hand I realize and understand that we've got a team with 2 new starters and that requires them spending more time on the floor together than other contending teams like Miami and Milwaukee, both of whom are either coming back with the same starters or no less than 4 of the same starters.  When you arguably have the best starting 5 in the league, on paper, you want to make sure that talent is executing well on the court and that requires playing them together a lot.

On the other hand I see this as Joe not learning his lesson from last year.  He's playing his starters heavy minutes, already, and, by not playing Oshae and Lamar and Svi, he's not anticipating injuries to his top 8 players.  To be fair Luke has been getting some playing time because of Al not playing b2bs and a minor injury to Z, but where's the minutes for the players who will have to step up if Derrick or Jrue miss games?  Where's Banton's preparation minutes?  Where's the minutes for the players if Jaylen is injured, as he might be after that groin pull/injury from the slick Toronto floor, for Svi and/or Lamar?  Where's Oshae's preparatory minutes if/when Jayson sits out for whatever reasons?  With the exception, possibly, of Ironman Derrick White none of our players are going to play all 82 and even Derrick has missed games because of the birth of his 2nd child.  

Are Sam Cassell and Charles Lee on board with Joe's rotations?  Are they not pointing out he's not developing bench players and units in game time situations enough to be ready for when they will be needed?

We have the best record in the league.  We also have the best MoV in the league @ +12.5.  If playing your 9th-11th when you're on top isn't a good time then when is?  Is he really waiting until we have a 2-3 game lead over Denver and Philly?  If he is he's going to wait a long time because they're good teams too.  I anticipate they will be right on our heels all season.  It's possible that maybe they'll fall back a bit, maybe they'll leapfrog us for a while, but always close.  They're not going away, I honestly doubt this season will be a runaway.  Even if Philly and Milwaukee fall back there will still be the incentive to finish ahead of Denver, Minny and the leaders in the west so there'll always be an "excuse" for not going deeper into our bench.


After Pritchard, @ #8, our next 3 players are averaging 11.6mpg (Luke), 11.2mpg (Oshae) and 8.0mpg (Svi).  Luke has played in 9 of our 12 games, but Oshae and Svi have only played in 6.  So they're getting minimum rotation player minutes, IF THAT, and only in half our games.  Their total minutes played this season are 104, 67 and 48; 219 total minutes played by 9-11 out of a total Celtic minutes played of 2905, 7.5% of the total.

Denver's 9th-11th players have played 124, 88 and 71 total minutes so far, a total of 288 minutes played by 9-11 out of a total of 2880 Nuggets minutes, 9.8% of the total.

Philly's 9th-11th players have played 103, 91 and 84 total minutes, a total of 278 minutes played by 9-11 out of a total of 2880 Sixers minutes, 9.7% of the total.


I know that some people, like Cowens, don't care much about stats but it's hard to develop a dependable "eyeball test" when your eyeballs aren't seeing the players on the floor.  It's still early, we're only 12 games into an 82 games season, but clearly Denver and Philly are playing their middle bench much more than the Celtics, than Joe, and that's my point.  This isn't "ride and die", Joe doesn't have to insert 9-11 and just ride them even as they blow a 15 point lead down to 5. He can put them in and even if that 15 point lead goes down to 7 that's still a 3 possession lead, minimum, and he can start inserting his now-rested top 8.



Bob


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Post by cowens/oldschool Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:34 am

Bob were in agreement, I want to see more of Banton and Queta and Stevens was a starter last year; we know he can defend and score around the basket. I’m sure we will eventually see more of them, Joe did a good job sticking with Hauser and Pritch to get them going. Now Hauser is on a roll and Pritch is getting there.

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Post by RosalieTCeltics Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:35 am

if you bring these guys in, touting that they will strengthen the bench, what the heck good are they sitting all the time. We are blessed to have the best five starters right now. What is ha going ti do run them so they are exhausted at the end of the season. i know they want to play, but the need to develop this bench is important. I just wonder if this is going to continue
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Post by worcester Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:42 am

Luke has been a very pleasant surprise as has Sam. I would like to see Lamar in action. Is he still on the team?
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Post by gyso Sun Nov 19, 2023 11:01 am

NYCelt wrote:Mazzulla is still maintaining that short, playoff like rotation.

There is nothing to dislike when it comes to White. He’s the least heralded of the starters and at times as critical a component as any of them.

Horford coming off the bench in reduced minutes, so far, looks like the key to his fountain of youth resurgence.

You may have forgotten to finish your sentence, I'll give it a try.  

"Mazzulla is still maintaining that short, playoff like rotation." . . . because, after all, this was a playoff game.

Tuesday or Friday night game in late October/early November?  Check

Goofy floor?  Check

Playoff game it is.

All jokes aside, maybe the 2% (+/-) difference in deep bench playing time (due to shitty coaching) will decrease after we get to play more of the hapless teams in the league.

[small sample warning!!!]

So far, we have played 12 games.  7 were against "playoff" teams and 2 were actually "playoff" games.

So, 9/12 have been games that the coaching staff (and maybe the players) wanted to "send a message" to the other team.

Bring on some of the weak sisters of the league, maybe then we can see our deep bench in action.


Last edited by gyso on Sun Nov 19, 2023 11:20 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Celtics17 Sun Nov 19, 2023 11:19 am

gyso wrote:
NYCelt wrote:Mazzulla is still maintaining that short, playoff like rotation.

There is nothing to dislike when it comes to White. He’s the least heralded of the starters and at times as critical a component as any of them.

Horford coming off the bench in reduced minutes, so far, looks like the key to his fountain of youth resurgence.

You may have forgotten to finish your sentence, I'll give it a try.  

"Mazzulla is still maintaining that short, playoff like rotation." . . . because, after all, this was a playoff game.

Tuesday or Friday night game in late October/early November?  Check

Goofy floor?  Check

Playoff game it is.

All jokes aside, maybe the 2% (+/-) difference in deep bench playing time (due to shitty coaching) will decrease after we get to play more of the hapless teams in the league.

[small sample warning!!!]

So far, we have played 12 games.  7 were against "playoff" teams and 2 were actually "playoff" games.

So, 9/12 have been games that the coaching staff (and maybe the players) wanted to "send a message" to the other team.

Bring on some of the weak sisters of the league, maybe then we can see our deep bench in action.


Gyso

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Post by dboss Sun Nov 19, 2023 12:43 pm

CJ will be forced to build out his rotation.

At this point in time we do not know the quality of a 9 or 10 man rotation.   The regular season is the time to experiment with your rotation dept.  I concluded a few games back that CJ wanted to clearly established chemistry of his top 8 guys plus Kornet.  

I think the bench 10-13 is loaded with guys that are more defensive oriented players.  None of them fit the mode of 3 point shooters.   IMO CJ should still be able to play a Lamar Stevens or a Brissett along side 3 starters that are shooter/scorers.  Only one player shoots the ball per FGA.  That means that 4 other guys are facilitators.  Setting screens, creating space and moving the ball to teammates.

I have seen enough competitive and non-competitive games to surmise that our top 8 guys are lethal.  i see no good reason not to move into the next phase of team development.
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Post by worcester Sun Nov 19, 2023 6:17 pm

Lethal. Reminds me of Lethal Weapon 4. Great buddy movie back in the day when Mel Gibson was only amusingly crazy. I don't think they ever made a Lethal Weapon 5, but Brad Stevens sure did. A joy to watch this team.

worcester
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