"Papa" Doc

One heard once in a while from posters, mostly at BDC though, about how Doc doesn't do well with younger players. Well, here's some quotes from some younger players who disagree:

Rondo, 12/29/10:
"With Doc, the relationship is like father-son,’’ he said. “That’s why he gets frustrated with me a lot. I probably wouldn’t be here today if it wasn’t for that [relationship]. I may have been with five or six different teams by now if I didn’t accept that. It made me stronger and a better player. That’s a good thing. I don’t take that for granted.’’

Glen Davis, 1/5/11:
“For sure father-son,” said Davis describing the relationship, “but like stepson. He loves me, but it’s like, ‘I love you. I’m hard on you".

There are other young players who have established themselves as valuable NBA players after beginning their career under Doc: Delonte West, Ryan Gomes, Al Jefferson. I haven't seen any of them claiming to have had a father-son relationship with Doc, but they clearly owe them a lot.

It's unusual to have a coach that's good with veteran superstars AND rookies. We're lucky.

bob

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Yeah, as we enter a new year, we should relish every facet of this team, especially the coach. If there's one lesson I learned half a century ago, it's the importance of savoring every instant of singular times.

Sam

Watching Pops and Doc the other night, we witnessed the two best coaches in the NBA – with two drastically different styles.

There was a point when the Celtics were clicking out of the gate –when Popovich called 2 time outs within a 1 minute period. During the second timeout, he said nothing at all to his team – and just let Tim Duncan lay into his teammates. The night before in NY, he pulled his starters with 4 minutes left in a 10 point game –and after the game said something to the effect that if his starters don’t want to put out the effort, he will play his young guys as at least they will try. Pop seems to coach by letting his veterans keep the team in line. Sort of a self regulating attitude with a bit of negativity to drive them forward.

I see Doc as exactly the opposite…where even when the team is down by 15 points to start the 4th quarter, he is telling them at every chance that they will win, they can do it, they are better than their opponents if they just execute.

Two very smart guys that come at things from different angles, yet both meet in the middle when it comes to success.

Mrkleen,

I agree that they're the two best coaches in the league. And Pop's two timeouts within a 60-second period gave me flashbacks to when Red would use exactly the same tactic—very often followed immediately by a full-court press.

I do believe that Doc leans selectively on some veterans to help keep teammates in line. When KG reduced Glen Davis to tears, Doc could have intervened. When the team was in Rome, doc definitely adopted a hands-off attitude to the Three Amigos, not trying to force them into any particular approach in blending their very diverse orientations to the game...and it produced a championship.

What I like best about both of them is their selectivity in customizing the approach to the situation.

Sam

Sam

If Red used 2 close timeouts in a game at least some of that time had to be used bitching to the refs!

beat

This just goes to prove there is more than one way to achieve a winning result. The way Doc & Pop run their respective teams exudes class and professionalism. Hopefully, Doc will end up with a comparable number of titles to Pop. It must be like pulling teeth sometimes to keep teams motivated and focused for such a grueling 82 game regular season. The role of the pro coach is as much motivational as it is about x's & o's. Doc does generally very well with the plays he diagrams after the 20 second time outs in end game and end of half situations. I wonder if Doc majored or minored in Psychology at Marquette-MD

Beat,

Actually, although Red seldom missed an opportunity to yell at the refs, two close-together timeouts were a signal to the team that he was fuming at the players. They knew the strategist extraordinaire would never expend a precious timeout in that fashion without a compelling reason involving their execution or effort.

When the Celtics reached the huddle, after the second of two quick timeouts, half of Red's intent was already accomplished. He definitely had their attention in no uncertain terms.

In fact, the follow-up full-court press (and I mean all five players) was often partly disciplinary, partly to turn the momentum, and partly to get the Celtics' heads into the game.

One thing Red shared with Popovich, perhaps more than Doc, was taking instantaneous action when a potential problem was shaping up.

This conversation reminds me of something I have to check on some of my old video—something I don't believe I've seen discussed on any message board. It's not a big deal but, if true, could be an interesting sidelight to the ongoing Red Auerbach saga.

At least some of the time during Russell's tenure with the team (probably the earlier years rather than the later years), I think the Celtics stood during timeouts. I also think it was one of the little mind games Red played with the opposition, which was usually withering anyway from the Celtics' transition game. Imagine staggering over to your bench and seeing the opponents standing around. Much like my boy, Andre Agassi, would sprint over to his chair during a changeover when he had just made a major breakthrough in a debilitating match. Boy, do I miss Andre!

Sam

Sam: You may miss Andre, but since Andre married Steffi Andre takes no more dips in the Brooke. (LOL)-MD

Nice to see you and your humor back on the board, MD. I hope things are going well for you. And thanks for the private message.

Sam

Sam:

Things won't get back to normal for a while. However, the Boad has been a bright spot for me to visit occasionally while my Dad was suffering. There's a wealth of wonderful here that I truly missed.

MD.

Sam

Time outs themselves are another issue alltogether...............they are too dam long. Probably TV and money have to be part of the reason but even locally in a JV GIRLS game the other evening it must have taken 20 minutes to play the last 4-5 in the game.

They were treating it like it was the FINALS!

As fo the C's standing I really don't remember but any photo of such shows they are indeed on thier feet.

Here is one



beat

Thanks for the picture, Beat. You saved me some time. And it looks as though the practice extended through all the Russell Years.

What year are you guessing for this picture. I have it narrowed down to two seasons, but I'm darned if I can determine which it is.

Sam

Red is still coaching so its prior to 66-67 for sure.

I checked this out appears to be 64-65 as there is the black shoulder strap. Was that in honor of Walter Brown?





beat

CORRECTION still might be the right year but Brown appears to be sitting in the photo.

Beat,

Yes it was. Good detective work. '64-'65 was the year. I knew it was either that year or the following one because Willie Naulls (#12) and Mel Counts (#11) were on the team, and I believe I recognized Siegfried #20 peaking through.

As I looked through roster numbers in various years, one interesting thing occurred to me that I'd never thought about before. Red actually got two players to replace Heinsohn—Nellie in '65-'66 and Bailey Howell in '66-'67. That's how good Heinsohn was.

Sam

It was just a couple of great throwback teams playing hoop. No powder in the air, no senseless look at me drama, not a child in sight.

I hope it is a finals preview.

The spurs kept me sane during those godawful phil/shaq/kobe years.

They beat those Laker teams. Not every time but enough.

Love Pop, love what he said and how he said it about Ray. Doode has been around the block more times than the ups man.

I don't consider myself a very knowledgable fan, so I can't break it down chapter and verse but I know what I like...
I like Doc as the Celtic coach a great deal. He not only knows his x's and oh's ( from what I've read) and emphasizes defense but he relates so well to people and he represents the Celtics so well, in my opinion. I think he does a great job of handling pressure and keeping a good atmosphere for the players to practice and play in. I also think that he sees the "big picture" very well. He is a very valuable asset to this team.
I wasn't sure what year the overhead picture came from but I did recall them wearing black patches for Walter Brown.

I have never heard a word of negativity against Doc by any former player. They have always had good things to say about their time with the Celtics. While it is clear that Doc has an aversion to playing rookies, its because he doesn't trust them to do the right thing until they prove they can do so consistently. Just look at the things he had to say about Luke's performance last night. He cares about his players, perhaps more than most coaches and they know that while his love may be tuff, it is love. He is about to pass KC in wins for the C's. What else is there to say but Fire Doc, right Matty? LOL

Hey Mulcogi, how are your doing? I hope you're feeling fine and enjoying life.

Sam

Hi Sam, thanx, I had a couple of setbacks but am holding my own. Life is as it is. today we are still in shock over the attack on our Congresswoman. It's been a joy to watch the C's this year, as they overcome adversity, and demonstrate what team concept is all about, from the ownership, thru management, players and especially other personnel. Hope everyone is well and enjoying the new year. I will try to be a little more participatory as I continue to improve.