The Williams Experiment

by **tardust** Tue May 22, 2012 6:56 pm

Do you think that Williams being exposed to the Celtic brand of ball may rub off on him? Seeing a team that knows how to grind, share the ball, not worry about who get the credit, will get him in the right frame of mind. A lot of talent that we could use. KG staying around another couple of years could work wonders for the kid. A veteran team with a mix of young guys might just be the right combo to get the best of out him. Sure hope it works out, since it could be a steal.

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue May 22, 2012 7:28 pm

The kid is an athlete, has great defensive instincts and ability that you can't teach, the ability is there, hes gotta work and work and work....hes got to realize hes come awful close to running out of chances, would love to see the light bulb go off in his head and him become a productive part of the team as Steamer has already done, hopefully Steamer gets healthy and is also better next year.

Weve got 3 picks maybe even JJJ and Moore can add to their game this summer and be ready next year, with Jeff Green coming back we could have a really deep team next year, would love to see KG only playing 24-26 minutes next year in a winning situation.

by **bobheckler** Wed May 23, 2012 12:13 pm

@ tardust,

I hope so. The little I saw, I thought he looked good. In fact, I liked the little I saw of him more than Hollins, but Doc is focused on having the more integrated player on the floor. I can't blame him a bit for that, chemistry being as important as it is. Obviously, brought in late in the season, he is nothing more than an insurance policy. The good news is that he's learning the plays and probably practicing with the team even if he's not suiting up and that should produce dividends at next year's training camp.

@ Cowens,

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a lot of movement in the off-season. All those picks you mentioned need to find a place somewhere UNLESS KG and Ray are both gone. If that's so, then we are in desperate need of veteran leadership and top-shelf talent to compete for a championship and I wouldn't be surprised if some or all of those picks, perhaps bundled with players like JJJ and/or Moore are sent somewhere for that proven talent. Maybe a sign-and-trade for Ray + picks?

bob

.

by **RosalieTCeltics** Wed May 23, 2012 12:27 pm

There is no way Ray signs a contract and lets the Celtics trade him. I think he will chose his spot very carefully and go where HE wants to go, not where the Celtics can make the best deal. It was proven during the season when he was told he was traded that this is a business first, and that is the way he will approach it.

by **gyso** Wed May 23, 2012 6:04 pm

Bobh,

The incentive for the player to do a sign-and-trade has been minimized in the new CBA. There are no more Bird-rules raises. With that said, I don't think Ray would be looking for a raise, just a starting position on a playoff-potential team.

As the following says, it is a useful tool for a capped-out team to add a player they otherwise could not sign. If the team is under the cap, there is no incentive for team or player.

90. Why would teams or players want to do a sign-and-trade?

Teams benefit because they can get something in return for players they would otherwise lose to free agency. For players the benefits are limited. Under previous CBAs a player who qualified could receive a full Bird contract and go to the team of his choice, which encouraged the player to seek a sign-and-trade once he decided to play elsewhere. Under the current CBA a player receives the same contract via sign-and-trade (four years, 4.5% raises) that he could get by signing with his new team directly, and can receive a larger Bird contract only if he stays with his previous team. In addition, it is much simpler for the player to sign directly with his new team, as a sign-and-trade has to be agreed to by three parties rather than two. A player is really only forced to seek a sign-and-trade if he wants to go to a team that is capped-out (or doesn't have enough cap room to give the player his full starting salary) and can't sign him directly.

Another factor encouraging a player not to seek a sign-and-trade is that his new team might be weakened by losing players or draft picks in the trade. So while a sign-and-trade is a useful tool when the team does not have the cap room to sign the player directly, the player and his new team have little reason to seek a sign-and-trade when the player can be signed without involving his previous team.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q90

New things to consider.

Rosalie, look at #89 (from the same link, scroll up a bit):

89. Can a team sign a player using the sign-and-trade rule and then say, "Ha ha, we fooled you. We're not trading you!"?

No. A sign-and-trade is treated like a single, atomic transaction, not two separate transactions between which one party can change its mind. The sign-and-trade clause makes the contract invalid if a trade to the specified team does not take place within 48 hours.

I think this rule is the same under the prior CBA, except the "atomic" part (LOL). I think they meant "automatic". Ray would only do a S&T if he liked the destination team.

gyso

by **tardust** Wed May 23, 2012 6:12 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:There is no way Ray signs a contract and lets the Celtics trade him. I think he will chose his spot very carefully and go where HE wants to go, not where the Celtics can make the best deal. It was proven during the season when he was told he was traded that this is a business first, and that is the way he will approach it.

Can't think of many teams that Ray could start for next year. Could be wrong though. Someone like OKC. Durant and Wesbrook would draw so much attention that Ray would get what he needs, wide open looks. Where do you think he could be a good starter?

by **RosalieTCeltics** Wed May 23, 2012 6:53 pm

Everyone keeps talking about Chicago, now, if Rose doesn't play the whole 20112-2013 season like the rumors are saying, they will be looking for a point guard who will handles the ball well, that is not Ray. Also, the condition of his ankle is going to play a big part in who makes the offer to him. I just don't see him starting anywhere, maybe the Clippers? Paul is rumored as saying he will not resign with them. Why go across the country to a mess to end up sitting on the bench. My thinking is, if all goes okay with the ankle, the Celtics will make him an offer. Remember, he has a big family now to relocate, for what? Two years????

I think it all depends on what happens the rest of the way this year, then,
what if Garnett and Pierce retire? So many things to think of....

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