Roster reset: Still room for Allen, Bass - WHERE CELTICS ARE NOW WITH CAP SPACE

By Chris Forsberg | ESPNBoston.com


Jason Terry could be in a Celtics uniform next season if a deal gets done.
The Boston Celtics practically doubled their roster number in recent days, officially signing three rookies Tuesday and nearing deals with both Jeff Green and Jason Terry. What do these signings mean for the roster moving forward? Is there still room for the likes of Ray Allen and Brandon Bass? Let's crunch the numbers in our latest roster reset:

SIGNED FOR 2012-13 WITH SALARY ESTIMATES (10)
Guards: Rajon Rondo ($11 million), Avery Bradey ($1.6 million), Jason Terry ($5 million)
Forwards: Paul Pierce ($16.8 million), JaJuan Johnson ($1.1 million), Jared Sullinger ($1.3 million**); Jeff Green ($9 million*), Kris Joseph ($473,604)
Center: Kevin Garnett ($11 million*), Fab Melo ($1.3 million**)

NON-GUARANTEED 2012-13 CONTRACTS (2)
E'Twaun Moore ($760,000); Sean Williams ($915,000)

FREE AGENTS FROM 2011-12 SEASON (10)
Restricted: Greg Stiemsma ($1.1 million)
Unrestricted: Ray Allen, Brandon Bass, Keyon Dooling, Mickael Pietrus, Marquis Daniels, Sasha Pavlovic, Ryan Hollins, Jermaine O'Neal, Chris Wilcox

Estimated total salary committed to guaranteed contracts: $58.7 million
(* = Estimated salary, awaiting official; ** = 120% of rookie scale)

For the purpose of this exercise, we're doing a little bit of assuming (that deals with Green and Terry will be finalized) as well as some guesswork on the numbers while awaiting official contract values for the likes of Garnett and Green (which won't likely be finalized until after the moratorium; we're using Green's $9 million figure from last year as a guide this year though that number might be lower).

We're also assuming that the Celtics went to 120 percent of the rookie scale with Sullinger and Melo. But going high on all of the estimated numbers, the Celtics still have roughly $15 million max to fill out their roster. And they don't want to get too close to that $74 million threshold because they want to leave room to absorb more salary during the season (whether it be injury replacements or taking on a little extra salary in the trade).

Even still, that means Boston still seemingly has enough room to bring back both Allen and Bass (though it won't leave much to fill out the end of the bench). Regardless, Boston still has room to do some combination of the following:

* Offer Ray Allen a two-year, $12 million contract ($6 million on book for next season)

* Offer Brandon Bass in the vicinity of $6 million in the first year of a long-term deal (though a lower number would provide more wiggle room). If unable to bring back Bass at an agreeable number, the team could facilitate a sign-and-trade in order to bring back an asset.

* Use the bi-annual exception (or part of it) to bring back a role player like Mickael Pietrus or fend off any modest offer sheets that Greg Stiemsma receives. The $2 million value will still require the likes of Pietrus to take a bit of a discount, but a veteran might be enticed by the roster Boston is putting together for another title run.

* Fill out the end of the roster with low-budget options like Moore and Williams, or any other minimum salary player. Remember that the league pays a portion of all one-year veteran contracts, so even a long-time veteran with a $1+ million price tag only counts against Boston's books at a fraction of the cost. For instance, Pietrus made $1.2 million last season, but Boston only paid $854,000.

112288

112288,

This is the article I used to create my thread; The Roster, the Luxury Tax and the Apron (aka: the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe - LOL). I gave Sully and Fab slightly lower salaries than shown here. I wanted to show this in a roster format because I felt that it would show exactly what roster spots were still open as well as showing how the total salary was being affected by the use of a simple exception (the non-taxpayer MLE).

gyso

Ok did not see it. Sorry about that. If you want to remove - do so.

112288

112288,

You misunderstood me. This thread is fine and unique onto itself. I was just saying that this article gave me the idea, the inspiration to create a new thread.

This thread provided much of the salaries and briefly mentioned the $74 million apron. I specifically wanted to expand on that concept and in doing so, I got a better understanding of it myself.

Regards (and Happy 4th to you!!)

gyso

GYSO,

It was too late a night and too early in the morning to get the brain working! But it seemed so harmless at the time - those Tanqueray and Tonic - got to reload again today!!!!!!!!

Happy 4th of July to you and your family.

GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!!!!!

112288

T-Wolves GM tells Steamer's agent that he thinks Steamer is a "good fit". Talked some numbers, no offer made yet.

He is an unrestricted free agent, and we can match, but will we?

I hope so. We'd go back to being a small team again.

bob

.

Celtics could go as high as mid 2 million range for him. This is an exercise to see if he can get a bump over $1million offered by Celtics. He'll be in green barring a ridiculous offer.

112288

As far as Ray Allen, Ray is pissed as being offered as trade bait for 2 years so he just may make it impossible for Danny to sign him. He probably wants a no trade clause attached.

112288 wrote:Celtics could go as high as mid 2 million range for him. This is an exercise to see if he can get a bump over $1million offered by Celtics. He'll be in green barring a ridiculous offer.

112288

As far as Ray Allen, Ray is pissed as being offered as trade bait for 2 years so he just may make it impossible for Danny to sign him. He probably wants a no trade clause attached.

112288,

Let's hope you're right about Steamer, but suppose he does get a ridiculous offer? Who are our centers? Sully is "excited about learning to play 5" but, at 6'9", he isn't one. What Danny has been saying about how "there's not much difference between 4 and 5" is poppycock.

Regarding Ray, a multi-year deal to a 37 year old coming off of ankle surgery with a no-trade clause? I love Ray and, as I've stated elsewhere, drool over the 2nd unit backcourt of Terry and Allen but he's not a 27 year old perennial all-star anymore.

bob


.

Bob

I happen to remember a certain center that was 6-9 and handled the position quite well. No I don't expect Sully to be Cowens, I do expect him to be Sully and he like Cowens is one tough dude. Perhaps the similarities vanish there.... perhaps not. I remember even when Auerbach drafted Cowens he did it thinking Cowens would be a PF and only after Russell watched him, did Russ tell Red, he's a center.

Even Russ himself wasn't that big as centers go. And really how many really good centers 7' or more are out there anyway? 6-9 seems pretty long to me. Anyway I do agree with the point we need Steamer but letting Sully get a few minutes at the 5 might just be interesting.

Heck when Howard was out who did Orlando put in the center spot? BB

Think we will still end up with a sort of 5 by committee but if the other 4 spots are solid and the bench solid not having a stellar 5 might just be the way things have to be.

beat

beat wrote:Bob

I happen to remember a certain center that was 6-9 and handled the position quite well. No I don't expect Sully to be Cowens, I do expect him to be Sully and he like Cowens is one tough dude. Perhaps the similarities vanish there.... perhaps not. I remember even when Auerbach drafted Cowens he did it thinking Cowens would be a PF and only after Russell watched him, did Russ tell Red, he's a center.

Even Russ himself wasn't that big as centers go. And really how many really good centers 7' or more are out there anyway? 6-9 seems pretty long to me. Anyway I do agree with the point we need Steamer but letting Sully get a few minutes at the 5 might just be interesting.

Heck when Howard was out who did Orlando put in the center spot? BB

Think we will still end up with a sort of 5 by committee but if the other 4 spots are solid and the bench solid not having a stellar 5 might just be the way things have to be.

beat

beat,

Yeah, we're going to have a 5 by committee, I'd just like to have another TALL 5 besides KG.

Orlando used Baby at 5, like we did, and look at how well they did. In a position that doesn't require mobility as much as others do nothing beats being bigger than the other guy and you can't teach height.

bob


.

I wonder what Russell's wing span was? He looked like he was all arms!

Bob,
I believe Stiemsma is restricted FA. And, yes, we can match any other offer within 72 hours.
He has $1.05M offer from Celtics.

Yes, that'd be interesting how high ($$$) DA will go with him.

AK

Danny will do what's best for the Celts. If that means resigning Steemer, he will.
Ditto Ray. If not, he's crafting a better schema for the teama.

bob,

Remember when I wrote:

We can match any offer for Stiemsma, but there is a catch. Lets say Minnisota gives him a offer sheet with a $2 million first year salary (or 3mil., or 4mil., whatever, things are getting crazy for bigs) . We do not have any Bird rights on Greg, so we have to use another of our exceptions to make up the money. We can only match by using all or part of our Mid Level Exception (5.8mil-ish) or our Bi-Annunal Exception (1.99mil-ish).

Jason Terry is using the full non-taxpayer MLE, so that exception is gone. All that's left is the bi-annual exception and vet minimum exceptions.

If any team gets Stiemsma to sign an offer larger than the Bi-Annual Exception ($1.957mil), he is gone. There is nothing Danny can do about it.

gyso

gyso wrote:bob,

Remember when I wrote:

We can match any offer for Stiemsma, but there is a catch. Lets say Minnisota gives him a offer sheet with a $2 million first year salary (or 3mil., or 4mil., whatever, things are getting crazy for bigs) . We do not have any Bird rights on Greg, so we have to use another of our exceptions to make up the money. We can only match by using all or part of our Mid Level Exception (5.8mil-ish) or our Bi-Annunal Exception (1.99mil-ish).

Jason Terry is using the full non-taxpayer MLE, so that exception is gone. All that's left is the bi-annual exception and vet minimum exceptions.

If any team gets Stiemsma to sign an offer larger than the Bi-Annual Exception ($1.957mil), he is gone. There is nothing Danny can do about it.

gyso

gyso,

Then I think Steamer's gone, sad to say. The difference between $1.957M and an even $2M isn't even noticeable, but it prices us out of the competition.

Let's hope KG gets on the phone with Steamer and tells him he better !@#$%^ come back to Boston!

bob

.

Bob, Who's offering Steemer $2m?

worcester wrote:Bob, Who's offering Steemer $2m?

worcester,

Nobody is, yet.

He has met with the T-Wolves, who have said he's "a good fit" for them. Numbers have been discussed, according to the rumor mill.

Our offer to him is a known quantity, it was the qualifying offer. So, in order for them to land them, given our constraints as described by gyso, all they have to do is exceed $1.95M and we can't match that. $2M, for a 6'11", 255# center with playoff experience and an accomplished shot blocker, is chump change.

It hasn't happened yet, but I'm feeling like the playing field is starting to tilt that way.

bob

.

Here is an article from bleacher report, inre Steamer:

The Celtics took a chance by signing Greg Stiemsma to the roster last year as a deep reserve center and after a few injuries to Boston's rotation, he stepped up to the challenge as the back up center.

Chris Forsberg of ESPN reported that Boston wants Stiemsma back in green next season and have extended a $1.05 million qualifying offer in order to make him a restricted free agent.

A. Sherrod Blakely of Comcast SportsNet reported that although Boston is Stiemsma's first choice, he is taking the opportunity of free agency to meet with the Timberwolves in order to hear the possible offer they would make.

The Celtics are limited in what they can offer Stiemsma due to the lack of Bird Rights, therefore at most they could offer him the bi-annual exception of $4 million for two years. The backup center averaged 2.9 points per game on 54.5 percent shooting, as well as providing 3.2 rebounds, .5 assists, 1.5 blocks and .7 steals over 13.9 minutes per game.

The Celtics would be lucky to have the 26-year-old Stiemsma back for the qualifying offer they gave or the bi-annual exception. However, free agency is beginning to indicate that he may garner more money than that.

Another 26-year-old center earned himself quite a raise after averaging 3.1 points per game on 50.6 percent, as well as providing 5.3 rebounds, .5 assists, .5 steals and 1.0 blocks over 14.7 minutes per game. This center is the Bulls' Omer Asik, who according to Marc Stein of ESPN has agreed to a three-year $25.1 million contract with the Houston Rockets.

Stiemsma and Asik have put up very similar numbers over the last season, with Omer Asik producing better rebounding numbers and Stiemsma putting up more steals and blocks per game.

Omer Asik is known to be a more talented defender than Stiemsma, but the potential for both players to improve greatly is fairly similar, as both players are 26 years old.

In no way does this dictate that Stiemsma deserves $8 million a year, as Omer Asik is seemingly overpaid at that number as well, but it does suggest that teams may be valuing players like Asik and Stiemsma higher than some may have expected.

The Boston Celtics may find themselves unable to bring back Stiemsma even though they would be willing to pay for it, as they only have the capability to sign Stiemsma to the bi-annual exception due to cap restrictions. Therefore it is likely Stiemsma will at least be offered a contract that will be worth more than the $2 million-per-year that the Celtics can offer.

It will, in the end, be up to Greg to decide whether he would like to earn a bigger pay day or return to the team that gave him a real chance in the NBA.

The Timberwolves may make an offer to Stiemsma in the next few days, and we will see whether he returns to the city of Boston or takes the money he deserves in another city.

bob


.

Hi,
I don't know T-Wolves $$$ situation but let's assume that they offer GS $2M and he accepts. What're Celtics options?
A) rely on FM and JS to develop during training camp and pre-season
B) find another center similar to what DA did last year
C) ???

AK

sinus007 wrote:Hi,
I don't know T-Wolves $$$ situation but let's assume that they offer GS $2M and he accepts. What're Celtics options?
A) rely on FM and JS to develop during training camp and pre-season
B) find another center similar to what DA did last year
C) ???

AK

C) punt

beat wrote:

sinus007 wrote:Hi,
I don't know T-Wolves $$$ situation but let's assume that they offer GS $2M and he accepts. What're Celtics options?
A) rely on FM and JS to develop during training camp and pre-season
B) find another center similar to what DA did last year
C) ???

AK

C) punt

D) No Ray and no Bass. Replace Ray with Dooling, at the vet minimum. Sign Pietrus at the vet minimum. Sign Nenad Krstic, 8-10mil. Move KG back to 4.

Too late for "no Bass". We also now can sign Ray. (LOL) Bass supposedly signed with the Celtics for 3 years. Sean Williams? Punt?

Greg! Sign with us for 2 years and the next time your contract comes up, we will make it a priority to reward you!!

Thanks, guys, for great updates on the post-season. I read a couple of times a day. My two cents: Steamer could really blossom this year if his feet hold up, (KG please make the call!) and we'd be better off if Ray closes out somewhere else. I know the second is sacrilege, but I think Doc will have a hard time keeping Ray on the bench, even when he ought to.

Minnesota may offer Stiemsma more, but then he's stuck playing on the T-Wolves. The question he'd have to answer in that case is how important the additional money is to him compared to the better situation in Boston.

As for Sullinger playing center, he can do that as part of the center-by-committee solution, but I'd stay away from the Cowens and Russell comparisons. Sullinger has a nice 7-1 wingspan, but Russell's was 7-4 and he could touch the top of the backboard. Cowens was a fantastic athlete with an incomparable energy level and drive that allowed him to excel as an undersized center. Sullinger, on the other hand, practically needs a ladder to get above the rim and uses his caboose more than athleticism or energy level. He can fill in at the 5, which will help.

Outside

gyso wrote:

beat wrote:

sinus007 wrote:Hi,
I don't know T-Wolves $$$ situation but let's assume that they offer GS $2M and he accepts. What're Celtics options?
A) rely on FM and JS to develop during training camp and pre-season
B) find another center similar to what DA did last year
C) ???

AK

C) punt

D) No Ray and no Bass. Replace Ray with Dooling, at the vet minimum. Sign Pietrus at the vet minimum. Sign Nenad Krstic, 8-10mil. Move KG back to 4.

Too late for "no Bass". We also now can sign Ray. (LOL) Bass supposedly signed with the Celtics for 3 years. Sean Williams? Punt?

Greg! Sign with us for 2 years and the next time your contract comes up, we will make it a priority to reward you!!

gyso,

Amen, brother!!

I think we can sign Williams for the vet minimum. If we don't sign Steamer, we may have to.

Please, Lord, no more Ryan Hollins...


bob

.

bobheckler wrote:

gyso wrote:

beat wrote:

sinus007 wrote:Hi,
I don't know T-Wolves $$$ situation but let's assume that they offer GS $2M and he accepts. What're Celtics options?
A) rely on FM and JS to develop during training camp and pre-season
B) find another center similar to what DA did last year
C) ???

AK

C) punt

D) No Ray and no Bass. Replace Ray with Dooling, at the vet minimum. Sign Pietrus at the vet minimum. Sign Nenad Krstic, 8-10mil. Move KG back to 4.

Too late for "no Bass". We also now can sign Ray. (LOL) Bass supposedly signed with the Celtics for 3 years. Sean Williams? Punt?

Greg! Sign with us for 2 years and the next time your contract comes up, we will make it a priority to reward you!!

gyso,

Amen, brother!!

I think we can sign Williams for the vet minimum. If we don't sign Steamer, we may have to.

Please, Lord, no more Ryan Hollins...


bob

.

bob,

We already have Sean Williams under contract next year for $0.915 million, the vet minimum for a three year player. All we have to do is not waive him before August 1.

Hover your mouse over his name after picking the following link:

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/celtics.jsp

gyso