POST GAME NEW YORK

Well............It's going to be an interesting season. Forget the latter part of the game, the Celtics with their starters in have explosive speed, defense and scoring. There is plenty of rust and getting to know new players but this will be exciting.

I like Sullenger...he is a moose and likes to get his nose dirty in the paint. Only draw back.......he has got to work on his vertical leaping ability...but he's got great hands.

Who is this guy Downs.........He really impressed me with good court vision.....good position and has some nice moves. Christmas and Smith did not impress me...but then again it was their first true game in the NBA.

Darko looked lost, slow and out of shape.......I wish they played Melo more the the last few minutes of the game.

NEXT PRESEASON GAME MONDAY AT PHILLY - NBATV - 7PM

POST GAME - WEEI


FAST BREAK: CELTICS CONTINUE EXPERIMENTS IN LOSS TO KNICKS 10.13.12 at 10:27 pm ET
By Paul Flannery | No Comments

Brandon Bass was back in the starting lineup for the Celtics’ third exhibition game against the Knicks on Saturday night and C’s fans should probably get used to some uncertainty with the starters. Whether it’s Bass or Jared Sullinger at the 4 or Jason Terry or Courtney Lee at off-guard, or even Darko Milicic at center, the days of the set starting lineup may be a thing of the past.

It’s not just matchups, although that will play a significant part. If Doc Rivers wants to have his team in peak condition for the playoffs in the spring, he’ll need them to be healthy and somewhat less exhausted then they have been in the past. In order to do that, Rivers will need as many as 10 different players to perform significant roles and play major minutes.

Bass didn’t do much with his opportunity, however, scoring just 5 points on 2 shots in 18 minutes, while Sullinger scored a team-high 14 points to go with 7 rebounds in a 98-95 overtime loss. None of that changes the dynamic, which will continue to evolve throughout preseason.

WHAT WENT RIGHT

The big lineup has potential: Rivers turned to Jeff Green midway through the first quarter and had him on the floor with Paul Pierce, Bass and Milicic. It’s an intriguing look because it will get more minutes for Green, help a thin backcourt rotation — until Avery Bradley returns, Rivers have only three veteran guards on his roster — and also add some scoring punch when Kevin Garnett is off the court. What’s still to be determined is whether the lineup can play successfully.

They did some good things in their time together and helped the C’s get back in the game after a rough start. It helped that Green was able to guard James White instead of J.R. Smith, who didn’t play. There’s more on the look in this post.

Speaking of Green: Another solid outing for the forward as he poured in 12 points to go with 4 rebounds and had another highlight-reel dunk. Some in Celtics land have been comparing him with James Worthy, but let’s pump the brakes on that kind of talk. If Green can average 20 and 6 for the next 4 years then fine, but Worthy is a Hall of Famer. Green is a decent player trying to find his way. Maybe he should be allowed to do that first.

Rajon Rondo, preseason MVP: It’s not just that Rondo continues to make his free throws: he hit three more and is now 13-for-13 in their three games. Or that he’s making jump shots and looking smooth and unhurried while doing so. Rondo is also in complete command of the offense and is playing at a controlled pace. He finished with 9 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists and zero turnovers.

WHAT WENT WRONG

Rebounding, rebounding, rebounding: It might be the single biggest issue for the Celtics this season and it’s all on the defensive glass. The C’s were crushed on the boards in the first quarter and fell into an early hole on the scoreboard. They rebounded, so to speak, in the second and built an 8-point lead at the half. Still, the Knicks had 11 offensive rebounds and the Celtics had exactly zero at the break. That can’t continue.

Offensively, it was a drag: All the usual caveats about preseason apply, but the C’s had almost no rhythm throughout the game. The Celtics have five more preseason games in the next 8 days so there is ample time to work out the kinks.

Jason Kidd, Steve Novak and Pablo Prigioni played crunch-time minutes: Playing without several key players including Amar’e Stoudemire, JR Smith and old friend Rasheed Wallace, the Knicks turned to a handful of veterans in the fourth quarter against a Celtics’ lineup that featured rookies and undrafted free agents. Not surprisingly, that allowed New York to get back in the game.
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Rapid reaction: Knicks 98, Celtics 95 (OT)

By Chris Forsberg | ESPNBoston.com

Celtics point guard Rajon Rondo at work versus the Knicks on Saturday night.
HARTFORD, Conn. -- Rapid reaction after the New York Knicks defeated the Boston Celtics 98-95 in overtime during exhibition play Saturday night at the XL Center:

HOW THE GAME WAS WON
Carmelo Anthony scored a game-high 23 points, while Tyson Chandler added 16 points and seven rebounds to pace the Knicks, but it was rookie forward Chris Copeland who dominated late-game play by scoring 21 points (18 of which came after the third frame). Celtics rookie Jared Sullinger posted team highs with 14 points and seven rebounds before fouling out in the overtime session. Jeff Green kicked in 12 points on 5-of-10 shooting with four rebounds and a block in 29 inspired minutes, while Courtney Lee added 11 points off the bench. Birthday boy Paul Pierce connected on just 3-of-11 shots, but scored 12 points for Boston.

TURNING POINT
The fourth quarter and overtime featured a bit of a jayvee contest (well, the Knicks kept Jason Kidd on the floor, but the Celtics ran with a lineup of Jamar Smith, Dionte Christmas, Micah Downs, Kris Joseph, and Sullinger). The Knicks erased a three-point deficit entering the frame and had Boston's youngest players on the ropes before the rookies made a spirited (and entertaining) run, much to the delight of the Celtics veterans who cheered on every moment (and argued for every call). That culminated with Sullinger spinning in a free throw to tie the game at 86 with 16.6 seconds to go to force an extra session where Copeland blocked a Smith 3-point attempt in the final seconds to seal the victory.

BOLD PLAY OF THE GAME
Green provided the loudest moment of the night when he swept across the lane early in the second quarter and delivered a ferocious one-handed jam over Kidd. Green scored all of his 12 points in the first half (adding a corner 3-pointer soon after), but it was the jam that highlighted another strong offensive outing.

WHAT IT MEANS
The Celtics really didn't need extra basketball. The team launched into a game-heavy stretch the features six exhibition tilts in nine days. Even with one of those rare off days Sunday, Rivers ran his starters pretty light and the day belonged the reserves (Green, Lee, and Sullinger). Boston will get a day to rest before a back-to-back that starts Monday in Philadelphia (and closes Tuesday with a visit from the Brooklyn Nets).

112288

Hi,
I have 2 notes on the game.
Sully is the real deal. Very impressive. Bit of experience and more jelling with the team mates and he'll anchor at 4, either with the starters or the 2nd unit. Let's hope his back holds.
Second, a lot of people are talking about JG being like James Worthy. I don't know about that, but if he continues to play and progress as he played and progressed so far he will be worthy his salary.
Very nice.

AK

Good one, Sinus.

Sam

No Amar'e for NY. 17 minutes for KG. The game was competitive for the first half, maybe some of the 3rd and then it digressed into early and sustained garbage time. It went to OT because our scrubs couldn't stop making mistakes. Sheed didn't play because he's not in good enough shape to be cleared for it. What does it say about the Knicks they're offering contracts to senior citizens who aren't in shape?

1. I thought Pierce looked passive on offense and slow on D. Not a good shooting night for him.

2. If Chris Copeland doesn't make the Knick team I'll be shocked. Even against our real team he looked like The Manimal, Kenneth Faried of Denver. Nice energy, good hands. He corralled a few passes that would have ended up out of bounds if they went to other players. He made a potentially game-saving block on Jamar Smith at the buzzer in OT. I was very impressed.

3. This game reinforced my opinion of summer league play. When put out on the floor with NBA talent last night, our scrubs turned back into pumpkins. Jamar Smith is NOT a point guard. He also had another bad shooting night. After a timeout, Smith was playing loosely off of Jason Kidd and Doc called another quick timeout just to tear Smith a new asshole. He played MUCH more spirited defense after that! Xmas played ok at times, he had 2 steals, but was very helter-skelter most of time. This is disappointing given his greater pro experience. He, once again, played marginally better than Smith. Kris Joseph had one nice end-to-end jaunt that ended with a stutter-step that let him glide into the paint for a foul but other than that looked physically overmatched again. The only scrub who actually looked ok was one that has been given virtually no chance of making the club, Micah Downs. He missed a baseline flip that would have given us the lead but I like that he was in position to make the flip. It just rolled off the front of the rim. That happens to the best of them, the important thing is that you put yourself in a position to make the bunny, and he did. 7 rebounds for Downs in 14 minutes ("Downs Astounds!" as the rhyme-oriented Clyde Frazier was saying last night on my feed). If a decision had to be made today I'd say ship them all off to Portland, none of them are ready.

4. Darko only played 7 minutes. I hope that was just a lineup decision by Doc and not injury-related. Darko was repeatedly victimized on pick-and-rolls last night. He committed too early and lost contact with his man. Our perimeter defenders weren't sliding fast enough.

5. Speaking of our perimeter defense, our pick-and-roll defense aspired to "disgusting". "Disgusting" would be a huge upgrade. They ran the same damn play all night, just changing the numbers on the Knick jerseys who were running it. Doc needs to fix that. Now. I wish I could say it was just the scrubs, but it wasn't. The disease was a Celtic pandemic which affected the starters as well. That has been happening all camp. I thought maybe it was just the Euros that were running different sets and blowing us up but last night says that's not it. It is a real problem, not just a "we don't know Turkey or Milan and we don't need to" problem.

6. Sully was a bull, but he was also a little piggish. He hasn't figured out that being 30 pounds heavier doesn't mean you are the biggest on the floor. He got blocked and tied up for jumpballs because he's not using his body to keep his man off, he's just going straight up and Copeland and
others were able to swallow him up. He did stroke a very nice mid-range jumper though. Still, for a 21 year old rookie, he's definitely ahead of the learning curve. He picked up some dumb fouls moving on picks (ala Perk) and just bulldozing some Knicks. He'll straighten those out, it's the use of his body underneath he isn't picking up on even though it has been happening since Vegas. He missed a free throw that would have given us the lead and the second went in like a high-volume toilet bowl being flushed. Difficulty with pressure?

7. 12 points off of fastbreaks vs 2 for the Knicks. When we run, we're very good. 34 points in the paint vs 44 for them. Their points were mostly from the aforementioned pick-and-rolls. 19 TOs for the Celtics. We had 7 after 2, 13 after 3. The scrubs were throwing the ball away left and right.

8. Jason Kidd played with the Knicks scrubs and schooled both Smith and Xmas. I think we would have had a better idea of what we had if Doc had put Lee in to slow Kidd down. As it is, he killed the scrubs, him and Copeland. Prigioni played with energy and was very disruptive on defense (Disclaimer: I love Argentinean players). Prigioni, in particular, kept blowing up Smith and Xmas. They were getting the ball stolen or were forcing bad passes due to his pressure.

9. Steve Novak ("Novacaine" per Clyde) came back to earth after going 7-7 from 3 the last game. Still, he is one of the deadliest 3pt shooters in the league.

10. Doc played one of his BIG lineups last night, with Rondo, Pierce (at 2), Green (at 3), KG and I think Bass. We proceeded to give up a series of offensive boards to the Knicks. Sheesh! If the idea behind a big lineup is so you can grab rebounds and pound the ball inside against smaller players, we didn't do it. Just the first time Doc has used this lineup, but I wasn't impressed. More work needed to maximize the potential of this lineup.


The loss means nothing. The no-show of a professional-quality pick-and-roll defense does.

bob


.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4697867/postgame-notes-doc-likes-the-offense


Chris Forsberg's NON-rapid response...Doc may like the offense, but he should be hating the defense.

Postgame notes: Doc likes the offense




HARTFORD, Conn. -- The Boston Celtics dropped Saturday's exhibition tilt
against the New York Knicks, but coach Doc Rivers liked a lot of what
he saw, particularly on the offensive side of the ball from his team.


"I thought we started off slow, defensively, and our offensive
rebounding on the guards killed us," said Rivers. "But having said that,
we still had a lead after the first quarter, and that’s a great sign.
When you struggle defensively, when you struggle on the glass, and you
have a lead, that tells you that there will be certain nights when your
offense can bail you out and I thought our offense bailed us out in the
first quarter."



Rivers has talked about a desire to play at an elevated pace and not
only did Boston push the tempo (at least at times) on Saturday, but
also got opportunities going at the basket, which led to 33 free throw
attempts.



"We’re attacking, very aggressive," said Jeff Green, who scored all
12 of his points in the first half. "You can’t let the defense set up,
you have to be aggressive, you have to force the defense to be ready. If
they are going to give us lanes, we’re going to take them, and if we
get fouled, we’re going to get to the line."



A handful of other notes after Saturday's exhibition tilt:



* Center Darko Milicic played only 7:23 and sat out the second half.
Rivers said that decision was made simply based on the Knicks operating
with smaller lineups (Amare Stoudemire and Rasheed Wallace did not make
the trip). "I thought Darko played well in the first half, it was just
one of those small-ball games, you knew it was going to be that," said
Rivers.



* Rajon Rondo said he wasn't surprised by another solid performance
from Green, including the night's biggest highlight when Green dunked
over two defenders in the second quarter. Rondo did playfully give the
jam a rave review. Said Rondo: "Preseason-wise? It's got to be the best
dunk of the preseason. I say it's No. 1 right now on my list. I'm a
little biased, but it's No. 1."



* Camp invite Micah Downs grabbed seven rebounds in less than 14
minutes of court time. The 6-foot-8 Gonzaga product is doing the little
things trying to get noticed. "That's just something I can try to bring
to the table," he said. "If I'm out there on the court and I'm not
getting my shot, I'm not getting offensive looks, I'm going to try to go
get the ball, help our team one way or the other. Whatever I can do. My
size, my athleticism, I think I can help out at that position when Paul
[Pierce is] not in the game or when Jeff [Green is] not in the game, or
if we're playing smaller and I'm playing at the four. Just trying to do
everything I can to stick."



* Jason Terry wasn't a fan of an extra five minutes of preseason
basketball, but admitted he got sucked into the excitement watching the
younger players in a tight game. "I don’t like to see overtime in the
preseason, me personally, but they played hard," said Terry. "It was
good to watch. It was exciting basketball. I know the fans of Hartford
got a great show tonight."



* What did Rivers think of Jason Kidd playing the fourth quarter and
overtime against Boston's freshman team? "Conditioning -- that’s what I
thought," said Rivers. "[Kidd is] thinking, 'I need this to get in
shape.' They knew they were going to get up into him, so he used it for
what you use a preseason game for."




bob



.

Stars enjoy supporting role



October, 14, 2012
Oct 14
12:25
AM ET



By Greg Payne | ESPNBoston.com







Mark L. Baer/US PresswireKevin Garnett saved some intensity for late-game support of the team's rookies.


HARTFORD, Conn. -- For a game that meant next to nothing to the Boston Celtics in
terms of the big picture, Saturday's 98-95 overtime loss to the New
York Knicks at the XL Center certainly felt like it had something riding
on the outcome.


Per preseason policy, Celtics coach Doc Rivers yanked many of his
main rotation players late in the third quarter, leaving the game in the
hands of a lineup full of rookies. Jared Sullinger, Jamar Smith, Micah
Downs, Kris Joseph, and Dionte Christmas took over down the stretch for
Boston, battling a New York lineup that wasn't quite as inexperienced,
with the likes of Jason Kidd and Steve Novak still on the court.


But the young guys held their own, withstanding a 12-0 run from the
Knicks midway through the fourth quarter, and overcoming a six-point
deficit with just over three minutes remaining to force overtime. They
weren't alone on their quest, as every time they looked over at their
own bench, they saw a truly spirited group of veterans rooting them on.


The bench was animated for the entire evening, but the fourth
quarter brought out a different animal. There was an unbridled
excitement coming from Boston's stars, as if their input alone would
will the rookies to a victory. Jason Terry and Jeff Green were throwing
their hands up to excite the crowd, Paul Pierce was bent down on one
knee, and Kevin Garnett, shoeless at one point as he spilled onto the
court in celebration, was his typical well of limitless energy, hopping
up and down as he cheered on his understudies.


"I love when I look over to the bench, you've got [Garnett],
[Brandon Bass], [Rajon] Rondo, Courtney, everybody's standing up,
cheering us on, that gives us extra confidence," said Christmas. "When
we make the big plays and we look at the bench and everybody's just
sitting down, clapping, it's whatever. But when you see those guys, the
leaders of our team, standing up and just rooting us on, even if we make
mistakes. We went to the bench and Kev and all those guys came over and
said, 'That's over. You five on the court, get it together.' We were
down six with three minutes left, and the game wasn't over, and we end
up making it go to overtime. And just from those guys having that
confidence in us, that made us have super confidence. So that right
there said a lot, not to just us, but the team as a unit."


Sullinger, perhaps boasting the most late-game
experience of the group, shouldered the scoring load, scoring seven of
his team-high 14 points over the final 12 minutes, to go along with
three rebounds. But Christmas, Downs, and Smith all contributed key
jumpers down the stretch to preserve Boston for an extra five minutes.
And through it all, the veterans kept up their outpouring of
encouragement.


"They like our young guys, they really do. You can see that," Rivers
said. "I think they had more fun watching the game at the end than they
did playing at times. Just cheering for the guys. They wanted them to
do well, and that’s always nice."


Boston ultimately fell in overtime, as Sullinger fouled out early,
Downs saw a putback layup spin out, and Christmas and Smith suffered
from a communication breakdown on the club's final play, designed to get
Smith a look at a 3-pointer with a chance to tie.


"I thought coach said one thing and it was another," Christmas said.
"It was a whole communication problem. Things like that can't happen if
we're going to win games, so that's something we're definitely going to
change and get out of my system -- one and done for that."


It wasn't the only mistake the younger unit was guilty of. Smith had
trouble getting Boston into its offense at times, and there were a
handful of breakdowns on the defensive end. But the mistakes were
quickly brushed aside, replaced by calls of encouragement by the
veterans on the sideline. During timeouts, Garnett and Co. often met the
younger players at halfcourt as they advanced towards the huddle, and
even after the timeout had ended, Rondo and Green were still pulling
guys to the side to offer last-second instructions.


"When you've got us out there and we're trying to win a game and
you've got the veterans behind your back, constantly talking to you,
constantly helping you out, it really helps out your confidence," said
Sullinger.


Said Rondo: "They did a great job. They got down a little bit as far
as scoring-wise. I think they hit like a 6-0 drought, but they stayed
with it, they kept their composure, and they fought back and tied the
ball game back up. So, they're learning. For a lot of them it was their
first time experiencing, as far as NBA players and being down in a
situation, as far as a real game, so it was good for them to learn, and,
like I said, hopefully next time we'll be able to get the win."


bob


.

Highlight dunk of the pre-season to-date: James Worthy (er, I mean, Jeff Green) posterizing two Knicks







Same Dunk, different angle. Go Jeff!!!







Sully, taking on Novak and getting hammered.







Pierce, in one of his better defensive efforts last night against Melo. Blocks Melo, Rondo ahead to Terry to KG for the flush. Beautiful sequence, both defensively and offensively.







bob



.

As Rivers continues to experiment with different rotations it serves to confirm the tremendous depth on this team.

Green, Terry, Lee and Darko are solid. Green's aggressiveness is a welcome sight as is the Option to play him at two positions. Sully can help us this year.

That's a ton of reliable players.

While there are still things to clean up like the pick and roll defense, the most interesting thing is debating how so many really quality players will be integrated together. It really make take some time too figure out how the minutes should be divided up.

Really not much not to like.

Dboss

The main problem with the pick-and-roll defense is that, in virtually every case, the Celtics perimeter defender opts to go above the pick, practically inviting the pick man to roll to the hoop. Once he's in the clear like that, other defensive Celtics have to scramble, usually creating reach-in fouls or allowing the pick man to pass to an uncovered teammate.

I'm not saying I think the Celtics perimeter defender should always go under the pick. Against a good-shooting opponent, that can be curtains. But the Celtics' defensive has to become less predictable, sometimes going above the pick and sometimes below to keep the enemy guessing. And, when they decide to go above the pick, it should be more of a signal for teammates to be ready to close off the lane when the pick guy rolls.

Lack of predictability is a powerful weapon in basketball, as is Bill Russel's "Invisible Man" theory that the threat of an action can often be as effective as the action itself.

Sam

Hi,
Re: P-n-R defense.
I think they will get better. When the newcomers , Darko, Sully, JT, CL, get the feel for their partners they will close that gap. I'm pretty sure that Doc's making it one of the highest priorities.

AK

Sam you pointed that out last week. I think you have to let the guard prove he can knock down an outside shot.

The other thing that I have seen work in the past is when our big come up hard and fast trapping the guard coming off the pick while cutting off the pass to the roller and then the defending guard can recover and get back on the man while the big rotates back to cover the other big. This requires timing, anticipation and good technique. The trapping big must cut off the guard long enough for the defending guard to recover. He has to show long enough but know when to rotate back.

Also, I have come to the conclusion that Sully is no 5. If my assessment is correct Doc will have a difficult time getting minutes at the 4 for Bass, Green and Sully.

Dboss

Let's leave everything for now, but it would be interesting come trade time and the Celtics needing a certain young player........Bass would become interesting trade bait, packaged with someone else.

112288

Dboss,

Of course you need to make the perimeter shooter prove himself. But, even if he does, I'd still favor randomly going above and below the pick, including some feints in one direction then going in the other. As for the bigs, you're right. The key is in the timing, and it's not as easy as someone like KG might make it look. Just a portion of a second in feinting and recovering can spell the difference.

I agree with those who feel that pick-and-roll defense will be a priority for the Celtics over the next few games and maybe a couple of interspersed practices. Also, I think the last week of training (when there are no games, just practices) will be particularly valuable as they'll have loads of video to use instructionally.

Sam