POST GAME BROOKLYN - AWAY

bobc beat

Have a great time at tomorow nights game, eat some cheesecake and roast duck for me if you can find it.

bob heckler

I thought Jeff Green played fine, his shot was just off, but hes running the floor and attacking the rim with such focus and aggresiveness that I don't think anything was bad about his game at all. In the brief stint with us in 10-11 I was always yelling at the TV when he was in because he has such natural athleticism I always wanted him to do more. Well whoevers coaching him or whatever it took to get the lightbulb turned on, now hes playing with such purpose, attacking driving like the way we all wanted and in a way that is gonna add so much to this team. He had a couple nice post ups that just rolled off the rim, those shots will fall, his versatility and attacking and relentless running is gonna be huge all year and extend Pierce's career and make him and the whole team better....and look how good/great Pierce has been last 2 games and what makes me giddy is Kris Joseph showed me something last night, like he could have the tools to further develop into a bonafide contributing player as he can run, drive, shoot, seems to have a handle. Did we even find JG's future backup at 3 when Pierce is done? I could see stretches where we give Pierce a couple games off to rest his legs and both JG and KJ together would be capable to handle the load and run and run with Rondo.

Sam

I couldn't help but think about you during that game as everything was unfolding exactly the way any Celtic fan would want, we ran, we defended, ball movement all over the place....can't remember last time I saw a Celtic team attack both ends in waves like that, was kind of breathtaking. Enjoyed bickering with you back and forth on the BU point situation and AB. I can't write as elegantly as you or bobby h, nor do I have the knowledge, but if I totally believe in a point, I will stubbornly outwork anybody. I loved your comment about Danny, was thinking same thing myself as all the moves kept taking place and taking place and now we even have Darko and Barbosa, are you kidding me? There were so many times during 08 playoff run where Pierce and KG had to carry us with extraordinary effort with it seemed every last ounce of their fiber to pull us through. Maybe I'm looking too far ahead, but the beauty of this team is the depth, theres so much, hopefully no one has to put such Herculean effort by himself on his back, theres just so many parts in this well oiled machine to calmly attack in wave after wave after wave.

Deron Williams and Joe Johnson looked like they were in quicksand, they looked and were so slow compared to our Celtic counterparts, then to think we didn't have Barbosa suited up yet, Darko, AB or Chris Wilcox and our depth and waves of it were so apparent. I know its early, but I can't help but love what I saw last night and to think of how much havoc we are gonna reek on the league. Back to Trader Danny, what a job!!! he has kept us competitive and rebuilt us at the same time dramatically!!! who does that? I was totally aghast with the Perk trade, didn't like Sully as our first pick initially.....shows what the fock I know right? We are so stacked at every position, were actually 3 deep at SF with KJ showing he got game. We got Barbosa to add to Rondo Lee AB Jet and love seeing Pierce on floor with JG at the 3....and Sully looks like hes been in league for 5 years already, hes so poised, he has a Bird/Pierce like quality in that hes not overly fast, but he so knows where and when to go hes never rushed and calmly kills you inside and all over the floor.

cow

Cow, I saw the second half live and then watched the entire game twice—once on the replay Comcast does at 2:00 a.m. and once on DVR. I just couldn't get enough of it, and I had to keep Kleenex handy because frankly I haven't seen anything like that since the sixties.

Actually our discussion about the PG position is pertinent to the subject of Kris Joseph. Not that I necessarily believe he'll wind up as a point guard. But, in the very early going, he does appear to have traits I identify as important in a point guard:

• He seems to see the floor extremely well and, with his height, he'd probably see the floor even better over whoever's guarding him.

• He constantly looks for ways to advance the ball rather than simply moving laterally and then passing off to someone who's no closer to the basket.

• He plays a lot on instinct and fluidity, which means (1) he doesn't hesitate as though he had to think before making a move, (2) he can react quickly to opponents' reactions—even in the middle of a play—and without turning the ball over.

* He's a pretty good passer.

• He's a threat to drive (and takes it in very strongly) or to take the jumper meaning opponents wouldn't be able to sag off him.

• When he took (and made) that three, I thought he displayed the guts of a burglar.

• He seems very confident in bringing the ball up the floor.

I'm betting he's had occasion to play the point in some Celtics practices. If so, I hope it continues. The more versatility the better. Has any Celtic over 6' 5" ever played PG successfully? I'd like to study his defense more, as that's probably an area he has to work on; and it would be interesting to see him defend PGs, which could really be his Archilles' heel as far as that position is concerned.

Agreed about Danny. While teams like the Lakers and the Sixers may have made bigger splashes in their summer deals, Danny quietly seems to have acquired precisely the players who can fill needed roles with the Celtics. I'll take the numerous quality role players the Celtics have acquired over (for example) trading one very good center with a bad knee for another very good center with a bad back.

My mind is boggled by the options Doc has to work with. Basically, when managing the rotation, he can fine tune each position in terms of the direction in which he'd like the team to go, whether it be height, going small, transition ball, perimeter offense, rebounding (more limited in this area), trapping, pressing, inside defense, perimeter defense, transition defense, penetration, passing, toughness, etc.

I've never thought it appropriate that anyone on this board should get extra debating points for writing ability. It's substance that counts.

It's good to have strong convictions. It can also be useful to have the ability to outlast other debaters stubbornly. I've been told (at least by my wife, especially when she's mad at me) that those are two of my strongest (though not necessarily most desirable) personality traits. So I definitely agree with you about their value when needed.

Sam

Hi Sam,
I won't be getting any writing ability points, but oh well, comes with the territory. Go back to the ending of last year. How many people around here would think next year we will have Darko and Leandro and be excited about it?

I agree about getting a string of quality players vs players with health problems. I think we have had enough of that for a few years. When you talk of Howard and Bynum, as good as they are they have limitations as well. As a person that has had back surgery I can tell you it changes you. I am sure Howard will do a lot better rehab and is younger, but you Inever know how it turns out. I am worse now than before. Bynum has a b ad knee and a bad brain. Our new guys have limitations as well but for the most part are healthy and young. I guess I could add fast. I am jacked for the regular season to start. I hope we come out of the gates blazing.

Sam

Good calls, we have to remember the Nets were beaten to a pulp and by the time Joseph came in, just wanted to get the night over with, but at the same time the scrubs had to show hustle, something to have a chance to make the team. At the time of Josephs insertion I thought Doc was just throwing him in there, and surprise!! now I'm thinking after reading your post that Doc must have seen something and since were so stacked everywhere figured lets see what the rook can do in practice at the POINT and viola!! just what we need, more versatility as I screamed when KJ nailed that 3!!! I definitely want to see more of KJ at his natural swing positions as well, Doc has so many GOOD problems that I'm sure he will sort out appropriately as I can't wait to see us steamroll teams and develop the youngins AT the same time.

Spike had a great point that we are the fastest team in the league already and we don't even have AB yet or used Barbosa.....damn we are so stacked and Avery, health permiting is gonna add a speed and tenacity jolt sometime by midseason or sooner just like he did last year, taking the pace up another notch as nobody has to pace themselves. And we have plenty of beef, we should call Collins and Darko the Beef brothers as size at the 5 is another asset to pound at to teams in the paint whenever Doc feels is appropiate. We can still play either one with KG at PF then go small with a 6' 9" frontline of Green Bass Sully to totally frustrate/dismantle opponents....all the combinations and waves attacking with such movement and purpose and structure will be mindbogling.

We have more than role players, our role players are starters with borderline all star ability that can hold their own with anybody that are playing as role players and they will limit the real all stars minutes, keeping them fresh to play at optimum efficiency and really get up for the BIG games. I see KG and Pierce sitting alot of 4ths and Rondo having a historic year.

cow

Cow,

You make a great distinction. Doc doesn't just have options. He's had options in other seasons. But this year, he has very GOOD options. By "good" options, I mean very acceptable options even in case of injuries.

The only position I'm a little queasy about is center, largely because of my health concerns about Milicic, Collins and, of course, Wilcox. Given the uptempo pace we've been seeing, I believe it's particularly important for Wilcox to come back full strength and to stay healthy. That could possibly be the difference between a rock solid squad and a squad with a vulnerability that some teams can exploit.

By the way, I agree with those who say it's too early to get giddy (and I've been one of the worst on the score). With so many members of this team having come over from somewhere else and feeling out their roles with the Celts, as well as the "holdovers" likely having to adjust to more of an up-tempo team identity, it will probably be a while before the team chemistry becomes a comfortable one.

While the most recent game may have seemed like the perfect storm, these guys are all human and may face some struggles in getting it right. And Doc is still tinkering with combinations. I think a recent post by BobH said that, within a two game period, Doc has used something like 27 combinations.

So we may have to prepare for some short term frustration and take a leap of faith that, long term, any angst will have been worth it. That leap of faith should be easier to negotiate because so many of these players (even the younger ones) are veterans, and veterans usually adapt to adjustments faster than players with little-or-no NBA experience.

As far as Joseph's concerned, since the Summer League, I've been cautiously optimistic about the way he carries himself on the court. (Sometimes even more than cautiously optimistic.) I believe the most recent game was the only preseason contest in which he wasn't thrown together with a bunch of inexperienced players. I hope that, in the last two games, Doc will continue to give him floor time with veterans, and I'd love it if some of that time were at the point, just for the heck of it. I don't believe the team as a whole has to offer more preseason proof of what it can accomplish together, so I regard these two games as time to give more burn to those (including Joseph) who have the most to gain from learning how to play together.

Joseph seems to be the kind of player who I believe would mature faster within a veteran "womb," even at practice, than in the DL where he could very likely be playing with mostly inexperienced teammates and where the season won't even start until late November.

Sam