POST GAME MIL BUCKS

I LIKE TO WISH EVERYONE AND THEIR FAMILIES A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS....GOD BLESS EVERYONE! 112288

You cannot settle for jump shots - give up 50 pts in the paint, and allow to be out rebounded 57/44 and expect to win. The Celtics played a great first half and then gave up their running game for half court offense.

GREEN SUFFERS BRUISED CHEEK, CHIPPED TEETH

WEEI By: Mike Petraglia

Jeff Green's bad luck continued late in Friday's overtime loss to the Bucks at TD Garden. While fighting for a loose ball under the Celtics basket with 18.5 seconds left in overtime, Green was elbowed in the left side of his face by Milwaukee's Ersan Ilyasova and suffered a bruised left cheek and chipped teeth, according to the Celtics in a postgame announcement.

Green was down on the court for several minutes being tended to by team doctor Brian McKeon and head trainer Ed Lacerte before they escorted Green off the court holding a towel to the left side of his face.

Green did not speak after the game, which the Bucks won, 99-94, in overtime. Green was fighting for position on a play that eventually ended in a foul on Paul Pierce.

NEXT GAME - TUESDAY - AWAY - 12NOON - BROOKLYN - CSNE/ESPN

POST GAME RECAP

ESPNBOSTON.COM

Rapid reaction: Bucks 99, Celtics 94 (OT)

By Chris Forsberg | ESPNBoston.com

BOSTON -- Rapid reaction after the Milwaukee Bucks defeated the Boston Celtics 99-94 in overtime on Friday night at TD Garden:

THE NITTY GRITTY
Paul Pierce followed up his 40-point outing in Wednesday's triumph over the Cavaliers by scoring a game-high 35 points on 13-of-23 shooting with 12 rebounds, five assists, and three steals as he single-handedly carried the Celtics and helped spark an improbable comeback. Alas, the rest of the Celtics were simply off on this night and the Bucks did enough to emerge in overtime. Monta Ellis scored a team-high 27 points, while Larry Sanders was a menace yet again as he chipped in 17 points (on 8-of-10 shooting) with 20 rebounds. Kevin Garnett (6-of-22, 12 points) and Jason Terry (1-of-15 shooting, 4 points) were simply off as Boston shot 38.3 percent overall.

TURNING POINT
The Celtics closed out the final 3:46 of the third quarter on a 10-2 run sparked by defense. Boston forced four turnovers which it turned into six points and a Courtney Lee layup (off a Rondo steal) in the final second of the frame had Boston out front 70-62. But the Celtics' offense went ice cold and the Bucks quickly rallied ahead early in the fourth quarter. The Celtics were down five with under four minutes to go when Pierce somehow willed in a 3-pointer in traffic to give his team a much-needed spark. Boston had multiple chances to tie, but Ellis produced a floater over Brandon Bass and Sanders followed with a vicious alley-oop slam in transition as the Bucks went up seven with 42 seconds to go. That should have been enough, but...

TURNING POINT II: IMPROBABLE COMEBACK
A pair of Pierce freebies (and two missed by Milwaukee) started Boston's comeback, which also featured a Jeff Green alley-oop from Rondo and a big defensive stand (Rondo stole a Jennings feed with nine ticks to go) set the stage for Pierce's 3-pointer (a Green rebound of a Terry miss gave Pierce the second-chance attempt). But was it all for naught...

TURNING POINT III: OVERTIME
Back-to-back buckets by Ellis -- sandwiched around four consecutive misses for the Celtics -- helped the Bucks pull away in overtime. An offensive rebound allowed off a missed free throw in a one-point game essentially spelled Boston's demise.

GREEN INJURED
Chasing a defensive rebound with 18 seconds remaining in overtime, Jeff Green took an elbow to the head from Ersan Ilyasova and needed medical attention from the team's training staff. He walked off hunched over with a towel over his face.

LOOSE BALLS: RONDO GETS A TECH
Rondo earned a technical foul -- his third of the season and first since being ejected versus Brooklyn -- for jawing at Brandon Jennings after a timeout call early in the first quarter. Rondo now leads the team with three technical fouls overall... Jared Sullinger (4 points, 7 rebounds) fouled out with 6:53 to play. Sullinger was the victim of some rookie whistles, including a couple blocking fouls that could have been charges.

WHAT IT MEANS
The roller coaster continues. Doc Rivers likes to note it's a make/miss league and the Celtics couldn't get much of anything to fall (at least those not named Pierce). The Bucks win the four-game season series, 3-1, which could aid Milwaukee later in the season. The Celtics get three days of rest before a four-game road trip kicks off with a Christmas Day matinee in Brooklyn, then shifts out west to close out the calendar year.
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KG and Jet were a combined 3 for 18 in the first half and Mike Gorman quoted Doc as saying optimistically "that won't happen again" in the second half.

They were 4 for 19 in the second half and overtime.

At least they were consistent...

Hey Steve,

How many games did we have like this with cold shooting especially from the Jet.

Starting to get repetitive.

112288

We force 21 turnovers, are fortunate that they miss FOURTEEN free throws, they're playing without three of their bigs - Dalembert, Gooden and Pryzbilla and we're on our home court and we can't beat this Bucks team?????????

Geez.

Hi,
Despite the loss I'd like to point out a positive thing. 2 or 3 times I saw Celtics defense of old. They not only denied Bucks from quality shooting but forced them to make mistakes.
I hope Celtics will build on it and this becomes a norm.

AK

We are a mediocre team. It pains me to say that but, as Doc likes to say "you are your record".

Gorman quoted Doc as saying "we won't see shooting like that again"?. Is Doc saying this is the first and last time we're going to see the Celtics shoot under 40% for a game? We all know it is not. This is a team sport. The fact that this player or that player didn't shoot well is beside the point.

1. This may probably be the worst game I have ever seen Kevin Garnett play. Ever. Anywhere. He stunk it up on both sides of the ball and how often can you say that? He was a Kobe-esque 6-21 from the field, missing two 2'ers in OT. KG is averaging 12.3 fga/game this season. Why would we give him 21 when he's not hot? He was completely outplayed. Who was is abuser? Larry Sanders. He's averaging 8ppg, 8.2rpg for the season on 55% shooting. Last night he had an all-star game of 17 points on 8-10 shooting and 20 boards. This is a guy whose range makes Cornbread Maxwell look like Reggie Miller, and he scored 17 points. KG's defense was tentative. He'd step out at the ball at the perimeter, but not commit enough to challenge the over-the-top pass to an open Sanders underneath. Our baseline defense was poor last night. If you think KG had a Kobe-esque shooting night, then...

2. Jason Terry was Antoine Freaking Walker. To say that 1-15 from the field and 1-9 from 3 is cold is like saying there was a slight nip in the air at the Battle of Stalingrad. This is the guy Danny Ainge called a few minutes after open season on free agents opened up, as a replacement for Ray Allen. He's shooting 43% for the year. He's averaging 9fga/game this season. Why would we give him 15fga when it's obvious he's cold? I don't expect him to run the offense, I don't expect him to be sharp on every defensive rotation, he's new, but catch-and-shoot is catch-and-shoot. Remember the movie Hoosiers, when Gene Hackman had his players measure the height of the basket and distance to the foul line, and point out they were the same as their tiny gym back in Hickory? Well, they haven't moved the 3pt line around or altered the height of the rim. Together, KG and JET took 37 of the Celtics 94 fga (39%) and shot a combined 19%. That is NOT a typo. What I don't understand is why we kept feeding them?

3. In an effort to stop myself from sticking my finger down my throat, it's time to talk about something positive. Paul Pierce had another throwback game, his second in a row. He tried, and almost did, single-handedly carry us over the finish line. His 3pter that got us into OT was as clutch a shot as you'll ever see given the fact that he had to dodge two Bucks to get it off and just beat the buzzer. 35 points on 13-23, 3 steals and 5 assists. He has been Captain Courageous these past two games.

4. As aggressive Rondo was in the Cavs game that's how passive he was in this game. The Bucks cut into our 8 point lead after 3 by running and working hard. Rondo walked the ball up on every possession except when there was a player way ahead of the pack. He, personally, did not force the action by running the ball up in the 4th quarter. He became very active in the last minute or two of regulation and OT, especially on the offensive boards, but he wasn't aggressively running the offense. Technically, the only part of his game that is keeping him from true elite status is his free throw shooting, his jump shooting has improved to the point where he is acceptable and even dangerous, but his inconsistent effort is a major drag on this team. He is the spoon that stirs this drink (after last night he had me drinking Irish coffee) and if he's not doing it then we have problems.

5. Jeff Green played another very good game. Active, aggressive on both sides of the ball, a couple of stellar blocks and 4 steals. He was rewarded for this by getting mugged by Ilyasova on the final play of the game. Replay shows the ref standing along the baseline with clear view of the action and yet missed the whole "there's a player in a head lock there". There was at least one foul, possibly two on that play and all three refs missed them. I love listening to Mike and Tommy. A lot of times I have to listen to a United Nations babble of languages just to watch my beloved Celtics, so hearing a couple of homies warms the cockles of my heart, but they (in particular, Tommy) is making me overly aware of the refs. Sure, nobody bleeds green like Tommy and sometimes he's way over the top in his partisanship like Johnny used to be, but sometimes he's dead right. Green has a bruised cheek and some chipped teeth. Good thing it wasn't a chipped cheek bone and bruised teeth.






6. Our starting unit was 22-68. Take Pierce's 13-23 out of that and you see just how inept our starters were.

7. Our bench, on the other hand, was pretty good. Aside from the much-deserved kudos to Green, Sully came in and got 7 more Big Boy rebounds in just 14 minutes. He also got hit with some bogus calls (yeah, I know, there I go with the refs again). He got called for another block that should have been a charge and he was hit with a foul for bringing his elbow up near Brandon Jenning's face after a rebound. Replay showed that Jennings had repeatedly fouled Sully after he had the ball and then flopped on Sully's reaction. Yes, I understand that if a player swings his elbows up near a player's face that a foul, maybe even a flagrant foul, will be called. The refs missed two previous fouls by Jennings though. Sully fouled out again. Courtney Lee played well on both sides of the ball. He played pretty good defense on Ellis (at least, as good as you can), made some steals, hit some shots. All I can ask for from him. Poor Brandon Bass. He just cannot hit a shot. For someone we know is a solid, dependable jump shooter, this must be killing him. Not to rub salt into this wound, but he shot 41% in December and is under 44% for the season. His career fg% is 49%.

7. Monta Ellis had a sore back yesterday and missed the team's shoot around. He still looked remarkably athletic. I watched him for years with GSW. He is a special player. They ran a double high screen curl for him all night. It worked. All night. This is part of KG's weak defensive effort last night. Nobody jumped out at the curler, whether it was Ellis or Jennings, so they got into the paint. Even if they missed, Sanders cleaned up for them.

8. Luc Richard Mbah a Moute had three 20-point games in his career. Now, he has 4. I hate it when players whose names I can't pronounce have career games. I have to give them credit and I feel stupid with their name and I hate feeling stupid. Is he "Mbah a Moute", or "a Moute" or just "Moute"? Shit. Anyway, Luc had a damn good game. Not much of a jump shooter, so we fell off him. What did he do when we gave him space? He did exactly what he should have done, he put the ball on the floor and took it to the rim. He spent a lot of time at the line, good thing he stinks (4-10). He was, however, 8-15 from the field.

9. Every time we've seen Ilyasova he has looked like the second coming of Dennis Rodman on the boards. This time we finally contained him. Good body work by Sully did that, as Ilyasova came off the bench in the first half and spent a lot of minutes against our rookie. He didn't look like the Worm last night so much as mafia hit man "Pittsburgh Phil" Harry Strauss. Ilyasova apologized for his hit on Green, which is more than Strauss would have done. An apology from the league for missing that would be nice. That will come in the mail with the one from Pittsburgh Phil.

10. At some point, once it becomes obvious that KG and JET are in a slump, shouldn't you think about running your offense through other players? Pierce, who was having another great night? Green, who was playing very well? If we're doing well when we run, and Lee excelled there, shouldn't you urge the players to get out and run more? A head shaker for me with Doc's strategy, or his delegation/relegation of control to Rondo. It was sooo very obvious that we get into trouble when we play slow-down. We don't have the horses for that, just as Antoni doesn't have the horses to run a track meet. You have to work with what you have and we went out of our way to get players who can run with Rondo this year. Doc has to tell Rondo he needs to run. Barbosa is out with some personal/family issues and Bradley is still 2 weeks away. So, that means YOU have to run it down their throats, Rajon.


Crap, crap and double crap. Chicago's demolition (the final score makes the game look closer than it was) of NYK now gives them a 3 game lead on us for the 4th slot.

Philly, for all its woes and loss of Bynum, is breathing down our necks, only 1/2 game back.


bob


.

Bob,

The subject of whether to avoid running an offense through players in slumps has been discussed many times on this board. In just about every instance (as well as whenever Mike and Tommy have discussed it), the conventional wisdom is that you don't abandon key players, even if they're missing, because (1) it could potentially take something as tiny as swishing two free throws to reinfuse them with a "feel" for the ball and the rhythm of play, and (2) you're less likely to win by going to lesser players instead of a proven stars just because stars know how to win games—whatever it takes—more than most lesser players.

To whom would you switch the shooting emphasis at the cost of shots for KG? JET? (He was in even a bigger slump.) Bass? (Same thing.) Pierce? (How much can you squeeze out of one guy? Lee? (They don't have plays for him like they do for KG.) Rondo? Possibly, but he's already immersed in a quandary about the proper balance between shooting and playmaking; and, if they ever needed a ball distribution catalyst, it was last night. Green? Another possibility, but he seemed to be maxing out his effort already.

It may sound good to advocate moving away from a slumping star, but it's just not good basketball (unless he's injured). Doc believes that. Red was extremely emphatic about it.

KG had missed several consecutive shots when he came up with one of the biggest shots of the night when he was running on fumes (a gutsy 17-foot jumper with 0:36 left) to tie the game. Something similar happened a number of times to Ray Allen through his years with the Celtics. He'd be clanging threes, and the Game On Thread would take on mutinous dimensions, and then he'd hit a game-winner.

When someone attains the stature of a KG, Pierce or Ray, you don't change your game plan because he's temporarily off his game. Changing your game plan is precisely what the opponents want—especially if it means ignoring a star in favor of a lesser player who happens to be shooting a higher percentage in that particular game. The smart move is to do whatever's needed to get the slumping star back on his game.

Sam

Bobh,
It's good thing that I didn't watch that moment - no-call foul on JG in OT- otherwise I'd go ballistic.
One more example of what I said in Cavs game thread: flagrant fouls are judged mostly by 3 factors, none of them is actual event. Also, I thought the league is determined to protect players from head injuries. Unless, of course, JG is an alien and his jaw is not part of his head or, perhaps, they confused face cheeks with buttock cheeks.

Also, I'm curious how TJ will justify this no-call?

AK

sam wrote:Bob,

The subject of whether to avoid running an offense through players in slumps has been discussed many times on this board. In just about every instance (as well as whenever Mike and Tommy have discussed it), the conventional wisdom is that you don't abandon key players, even if they're missing, because (1) it could potentially take something as tiny as swishing two free throws to reinfuse them with a "feel" for the ball and the rhythm of play, and (2) you're less likely to win by going to lesser players instead of a proven stars just because stars know how to win games—whatever it takes—more than most lesser players.

To whom would you switch the shooting emphasis at the cost of shots for KG? JET? (He was in even a bigger slump.) Bass? (Same thing.) Pierce? (How much can you squeeze out of one guy? Lee? (They don't have plays for him like they do for KG.) Rondo? Possibly, but he's already immersed in a quandary about the proper balance between shooting and playmaking; and, if they ever needed a ball distribution catalyst, it was last night. Green? Another possibility, but he seemed to be maxing out his effort already.

It may sound good to advocate moving away from a slumping star, but it's just not good basketball (unless he's injured). Doc believes that. Red was extremely emphatic about it.

KG had missed several consecutive shots when he came up with one of the biggest shots of the night when he was running on fumes (a gutsy 17-foot jumper with 0:36 left) to tie the game. Something similar happened a number of times to Ray Allen through his years with the Celtics. He'd be clanging threes, and the Game On Thread would take on mutinous dimensions, and then he'd hit a game-winner.

When someone attains the stature of a KG, Pierce or Ray, you don't change your game plan because he's temporarily off his game. Changing your game plan is precisely what the opponents want—especially if it means ignoring a star in favor of a lesser player who happens to be shooting a higher percentage in that particular game. The smart move is to do whatever's needed to get the slumping star back on his game.

Sam

sam,

There are several schools of thought on this, some of which have been discussed on this board, as you correctly point out. One school says "shooters shoot" and the only way for a shooter to get out of a slump is to shoot his way out of it. You see this tenet applied a lot in baseball, where batters are sent out there to "swing their way out of a slump". Of course, baseball has 162 games and not 82 and a batter will only have 4 or 5 at bats a game, with almost every lineup batter getting the same number of opportunities, as opposed to being able to take 20-30% of a team's fgas. But, at some point, you have to adjust to reality. A-Rod was benched because of his slump. Even without 'roids he has still been a very good hitter, but not then and it was considered to be hurting the team to leave him in.

Brandon Bass is now coming off the bench. Why? Not because of poor defense, his help defense has been quite good, but because of his shooting slump. So, Doc recognized that sometimes a player needs a little "timeout" to pull it together. Same with Lee. He started some games with Rondo in the back court and played good defense but, when his vaunted 3pt corner shot wouldn't drop, he got benched.

Another school of thought says "feed the hot hand". We saw K.C. Jones do that with Bird and McHale when they were hot. Bird didn't drop 60 on the Hawks because he threw up 39fga and shot 19% like KG and JET last night. In fact, I looked up the boxscore, he was 22-36 for a scorching hot 61% that night. When it was perceived McHale had a mismatch in the low post, Bird would pass into McHale's "torture chamber" and let him work. We've seen Doc do that with Pierce when he's smoking many, many times and we saw him do it with Ray when he was. How many times have we seen KG being fed nonstop into the low post by Rondo and Pierce, when he has a clear height advantage over someone and is taking advantage of it? When KG is hitting his 19'ers he touches the ball an awful lot, and that's good because NON-empty possessions are the goal. Besides, I wasn't suggesting that they ostracize either of them, but in both cases I pointed out they took quite a few more fga than they have averaged this season, 75% more for KG and 67% more for JET. A few less fgas for KG, a few less for JET might have been a winning tactical adjustment if those fgas were being fed to an effective Pierce, Green or Lee. It's not too difficult to beat 19%. The key word above is 'tactical'. If KG and JET come out hot next game then by all means feed them like Fat Bastard after a day long fast. When Bird's game was off, he rebounded, passed and did other things to help the team. I don't blame KG and JET for taking the extra shots, I blame Rondo and Doc for not adjusting in-game.


You say that sometimes it just takes a free throw to give a shooter back his touch. True, but so does bunnies. If Rondo (and JET and KG) ran more there would have been more easy hoops. That might have worked even better than the free throw. I know you are not opposed to more running, I am not suggesting we are disagreeing on this, my point is that if something isn't working it is the coach's job to adapt and overcome. Doc is one of the best in-game coaches in the league. He is famous, rightfully, for being a maestro at drawing up inbounds plays out of timeouts. I just think he kept hammering the same nails (or didn't instruct Rondo to adapt) longer than he should have last night.


bob



.

bobheckler wrote:Another school of thought says "feed the hot hand". We saw K.C. Jones do that with Bird and McHale when they were hot. Bird didn't drop 60 on the Hawks because he threw up 39fga and shot 19% like KG and JET last night. In fact, I looked up the boxscore, he was 22-36 for a scorching hot 61% that night. When it was perceived McHale had a mismatch in the low post, Bird would pass into McHale's "torture chamber" and let him work. We've seen Doc do that with Pierce when he's smoking many, many times and we saw him do it with Ray when he was. How many times have we seen KG being fed nonstop into the low post by Rondo and Pierce, when he has a clear height advantage over someone and is taking advantage of it?

A couple of things.

First, when didn't McHale have a mismatch in the low post?

Second, KG, for whatever reason, has never been an aggressive low-post scorer, and by that, I mean he favors a fadeaway jump shot the vast majority of the the time over taking it aggressively to the hoop. Even when he gets excellent low post position and has a height advantage, if there is a defender between him and the basket, he's going to fade away rather than make a move toward the basket. He's very good at the fadeaway, but it doesn't draw many fouls or and-ones, and when it's not falling, it makes for nights like last night. KG has only 84 FT attempts this year. While that is second most on the team, it is less than half of Pierce's attempts despite the fact that Pierce has only 80 more FG attempts (399 to 319). The difference between Pierce and KG in FT attempts is indicative of the difference in their games -- drawing fouls is a big part of Pierce's game, and it's not a big part of KG's because he shoots the fadeaway jumper so much.

Outside

It's a little mystery regarding what makes a guy like McHale so dangerous down low and a guy like KG more of an outside threat. McHale had a million moves and used them right right and left to get separation from the defender. He could go up and under, over and through; he had a fallaway, a babyhook, a bank shot.

With KG, you don't get that multitude of moves; a lot of dunks, line drive dumpers, and far fewer layups. He seems to be having more trouble this year setting up and getting separation. Maybe one reason he's no longer dangerous in the post is because the point guard hasn't been getting the ball into him quickly enough. When he does set up down low, opponents are climbing all over his back, pushing, leg-hooking, every dirty trick the refs let them get away with. I'll go out on a limb here and say KG would draw a lot more fouls if the refs called them fair and square.

One signature move, KG's alley-oop jam, a move McHale didn't have, makes me cringe now every time I see it. Those are old legs that old man's coming down on, old ankles, old knees, they have a lot of wear and tear. Rondo, who's so proud of being smart that he brags about it in interviews, should go ahead and do all the alley=oops he wants with the other guys on the team; between now and the playoffs, he should forsake the alley-oop when it comes to KG, try to make opponents forget it's part of their repertoire.

If KG can't be an effective low post presence anymore, Doc needs to find somebody who can. Doc has said in the past that his half-court offense was an "inside-outside" offense, which I took to mean the same as Red's old Bill Russell-inspired feed-the-low-post offense. It worked quite well with KG in 2008. This year Doc seems to be adopting more of an outside-outside approach, where Rondo fiddles and diddles for fifteen seconds or so, looking to make the hero pass.

BobH,

Your summary made me think of:

* is Doc Rivers Friedrich Paulus?

* remember Johhny Most trying to pronounce the Yugoslavian names?

Brandon Bass has now had five straight games of shooting 33% or worse.

For a starting power forward, that is absolutely incredible. Almost impossible to believe.

I know he hasn't started the last couple of games but I still consider him a starter. And I'm sure he'll be starting if and when we make the playoffs.

BobH,

Sure, all teams feed the hot hand. And the Celtics fed Paul Pierce last night. But I don't really believe there is a school of thought that dictates going away from one of your top offensive players just because he's having an off night. Maybe in high school. Maybe even in college. But not in the ABA.

In the NBA, you play to your strengths (which doesn't preclude feeding the hot hand as well) and live and die by their performances. If something's out of kilter with one of your strengths, you do whatever's you can to get him back on track....the exact opposite of avoiding him just because he's having one mediocre shooting game.

Last season, Kobe Bryant shot a putrid (for him) 43% and yet hoisted more than 400 more shots in 58 games than any other Lakers starter shot in over 60 games. They kept going to him because that's what you do.

In Game 7 of the finals in 1956-57 (their first championship), Cousy and Sharman shot a combined 12.5%, yet took 40 shots between them (2 of 20 for Cooz and 3 of 20 for Sharman). Red didn't even consider going away from them because (in addition to ignoring stars who had the potential to heat up quickly) it could have thrown off the dynamics of the Celtics offense. Among other things, the other team never knows when a star will break out of a bad shooting night; and, by continuing to shoot, he usually attracts plenty of defensive attention to open up things for his teammates.

Sam

I'm from the school of when a player is on or in a zone you gotta feed him. If hes somewhat on, not in a lights out zone can still be fed shots within the offense, its a team game.....but when hes John Starks ice cold, someone else has to step up. KG missed 2 two footers in 4th, I was thinking FINALLY when he took those bunnies, but it wasn't meant to be. Jet was colder than Starks in that famous Finals game choker, all his shots were off in a very bad way. Bass was cold, amazing we had lead for much of the game.

The player that needed to step up the scoring IMHO were Rondo and I'd have even given Sully a few touches. If your the best point in the league or close sometimes you have to adapt your game giving the team what it needs. Was a winnable game Doc should have seen how off KG and Jet were and ordered Rondo to shoot/score more....get hot kid, show us your that player thats been putting up 20 recently.

KG reminded me of an old Jabbar getting pummeled by a young Moses Malone, he looked tired and this kid Larry Sanders just outworked him in the paint all night, hating Father Time. Still like the idea of seeing more of Collins, at times as was watching this was thinking of how great we would look if we had a Joakim Noah, Bulls are a tough team even without Asik and Derick Rose....can we get a serviceable BIG before the seasons done?

sinus007 wrote:Bobh,
It's good thing that I didn't watch that moment - no-call foul on JG in OT- otherwise I'd go ballistic.
One more example of what I said in Cavs game thread: flagrant fouls are judged mostly by 3 factors, none of them is actual event. Also, I thought the league is determined to protect players from head injuries. Unless, of course, JG is an alien and his jaw is not part of his head or, perhaps, they confused face cheeks with buttock cheeks.

Also, I'm curious how TJ will justify this no-call?

AK

Green was fouled two times on the play that he was hurt.
Ilyasova should have been called for an over the back foul at 4 and then again at 7 or 8 seconds into that video that was posted.

No call on the elbow Ilyasova threw into Greens face...but they call an elbow on Sully when the guy fouled Sully and was all over him.

112288

[quote=]
Also, I'm curious how TJ will justify this no-call?

[/quote]

I think TJ is usually pretty fair and neutral when debating this sort of thing. I generally agree with his view.

cowens/oldschool wrote:I'm from the school of when a player is on or in a zone you gotta feed him. If hes somewhat on, not in a lights out zone can still be fed shots within the offense, its a team game.....but when hes John Starks ice cold, someone else has to step up. KG missed 2 two footers in 4th, I was thinking FINALLY when he took those bunnies, but it wasn't meant to be. Jet was colder than Starks in that famous Finals game choker, all his shots were off in a very bad way. Bass was cold, amazing we had lead for much of the game.

The player that needed to step up the scoring IMHO were Rondo and I'd have even given Sully a few touches. If your the best point in the league or close sometimes you have to adapt your game giving the team what it needs. Was a winnable game Doc should have seen how off KG and Jet were and ordered Rondo to shoot/score more....get hot kid, show us your that player thats been putting up 20 recently.

KG reminded me of an old Jabbar getting pummeled by a young Moses Malone, he looked tired and this kid Larry Sanders just outworked him in the paint all night, hating Father Time. Still like the idea of seeing more of Collins, at times as was watching this was thinking of how great we would look if we had a Joakim Noah, Bulls are a tough team even without Asik and Derick Rose....can we get a serviceable BIG before the seasons done?

AGREED

Basketball 101

112288 wrote:No call on the elbow Ilyasova threw into Greens face...but they call an elbow on Sully when the guy fouled Sully and was all over him.

112288

On top of that Jennings flopped big time. If there was any contact it was very minimal. Pierce on the 3pter to tie the game in overtime was a foul as well. He shot a airball and the defender did not touch the ball IMO. I would like to say at sometime at the end of a game that we actually got a call that was obviously wrong. Those happen far and few between. I see us getting called for traveling, carrying etc. which were the right calls on 50% of them. I also saw the Bucks carry the ball at least 4 times when it was OBVIOUS and for some reason it wasn't called. Poor Sully just has to look at someone. I know I am complaining about officiating, which I don't do often. I guess it is just HORRIBLE refs. I don't think they have it out for us, just extremely poor reffing. Was this the reason we lost? No. JT and KG having possibly both of their worst nites as pros was the reason. The no call at that point in the game was HUGE as well on Jeff. Poor reffing again? Sometimes I wonder.

Just my opinion but I don't think we argue with foul calls near as much as other teams. Maybe I should say not near as animated would be more correct. Maybe we should be more demonstrative on those plays. Maybe Doc should get some Techs occasionally. Of course not at the end of the game. OK i have vented.

AGREED TARDUST

112288

This Celtic team that looked to have so much promise (not the diet butter) in mid October has fallen far short of our expectations. It reminds me of the Smokey Robinson & The Miracles hit from the 60's, "The Love I Saw in You Was Just a Mirage." Ray Allen's the one NOT in need of laughing gas at this point. I said weeks ago to give Melo playing time with the Varsity. I also wanted Blatche over Collins. This year is trying our patience more than judges and lawyers try court cases.

MD!

All in all I am glad they moved on without Allen. He would not have done well on the Celtics and would not have contributed as we would have hoped for. He only looks good because he is on a Miami team with younger players and younger legs who can create that extra space for him.

112288