Fab Melo did it again

One other thing

check the rosters of the team he just played NO CENTER even started, 3 guards and 2 forwards, no one on the roster is over 6-10.

Many teams are in the same boat with no 7 footers on their rosters.

also the Idaho team has a record of 1-11.

As NYCelt mentioned the league is a little below the better college D-1 conferences perhaps. He's learning but as Sam mentioned he's lost on offense unless he finds himself 2-3 feet from the hoop with the ball. Some of those misses in the last game had absolutely no chance of going in.

beat

Again ,with you comments you are giving me the reason to say that i am right .Instead of being talking about the good skills and the projection of the young 7 feet center you are talking about ...how bad is the league he is playing,his poor offense,and many negative thing that i cant understand.And you know what the worst thing is that many of you have this in the past,you did it with Joe Johnson,Billups,Avery Bradley,Gerard Green,Tony Allen and mostly with Kendrick Perkins.Many times i got mad when i read that Perks was slow,he had no offense,he was foul prone,he had hands like bricks and you know what the kid was and is a valuable player that we are missing a lot.Forgive for what i am going to say ,but right now there is not much difference between you and the Dudder and that is a shame.

International:

Wow! The Dudder, now there's a Blast from the Past! Celts need to Melo In, not Out. This Celtic team gets blown out by many of the good teams. Playoffs are NOT a given for this team. Standing pat with this group is a major mistake. When Rondo falls short against Paul and other top flight PGS, it shows some of his short comings and even diminishes his trade value for any potential major trade. There are NO Elliot Nesses on this Celtic team No One is UNTOUCHABLE!

MD!

International

Stats are stats.... they don't lie

KID has had 1 game where he shot 8-9 from the line, I pointed out his career numbers 55% and even with that game a mere 67% from the line this season,

I have hope he can be a center for us down the road but it isn't happening this year maybe never,

I watched this gut play 1 1/2 years at SU and he pretty much under preformed against good competition. Most of that is the fact the kid hasn't played the sport that long.

Now your resorting to calling me Dudder?? What gives??

Look at the teams he's playing, the quality of them, he's played 11 DL games so far and has had 2 very good ones statistically. 2 out of 11, against DL level competition.

And as I mentioned to your apparent blind eyes, I'd like to see him moved up from time to time and get his feet wet up with the big boys but it appears the brain trust of the C's feel it is best for him to stay put and learn the game. I can't argue with that.

beat

Bob, Thanks for the link to the Red Claws' game. Melo's rough around the edges, but after watching the beating we took from the Clippers, I'd like to see him in green this winter. I know it will be painful, but watching our vets get crunched is worse; there's no upside. They're learning they can't win against younger talent.
We need a young center desperately. We have a center who isn't playing in Boston and IMO he looks better than Mikki, Sheldon, Scal, Jermine, Shaq, Sheed, Jason, Darko, even Steamer, who came out of the same DL to give us the lift we needed last year.
Analysis of what to do comes down to how you view our prospects this season; I think we're going nowhere without another big man. To win consistently, we need two standouts, a third contributor and no weak links. Right now, we're got a bunch of guys who would be okay as the 4th and 5th men, but other than Rondo, no one who can consistently dominate. I think KG and PP will rise to the challenge in the playoffs, but without a center and much improved Green, it won't be enough.
To do the nearly impossible this year, I think we should bring up Melo, start Green and Lee, and let PP run the second unit. There'd be a lot less confusion about who's running the show with Rondo commanding one unit and the Captain, the other. Egos could be a problem, but that's where excellent coaching comes in. Essentially, with our roster, we have no first unit, but we do have enough talent for two good units. As long as several guys get significant PT, I still have hope. Hawk

In my country we have a saying....my wine is sour,but is my wine.Celtics fans sometimes tends to believe that the others teams players are better than theirs.Frankly i cant see much difference between Festus Ezeli and Fab Melo,Ezeli plays over 20 minutes and his numbers are 2 points and 3 rebounds ,i think Melo can do that easily.Ezeli is eaw like Melo,his offense needs improvement ,but he has the confidence that the team give him.I think melo'"s development is encouraging and his stroke from the line is fluid also he is lookind sound in deffense and with his wingspan he can be a deffensive forse.The mistake from the past with Tony Allen,Perks,and Big Baby cant be repeated,trust in your young players thats only what i am asking.

Then why the name calling International?

I've seen this kid for about 20-25 college games the past 2 seasons, as a frosh he was used little but did show vast improvement in his abbreviated 2nd season, and even at that level he was "fair" at best no offensive moves to speak of plus got in foul trouble much to easily.

Kid has only played the game a couple years before going to SU, he's still learning. IMHO let him play tons of minutes in the D league, work on some moves, learn the game by playing it not getting basically garbage time minutes up here.

He's a project plain and simple.

Isn't there a saying about serving wine before it's time too?

beat

International,

To be fair, you need to understand that beat and I both live near Syracuse, NY and both have seen Melo play in person. Beat has seen him play a good number of games live and I have seen a few also. Because of regional broadcasts, and being fans, what games we haven't seen from the stands we've seen on TV...probably second in number only to Celtics games. Our opinions don't have to be the only ones and we both hope we turn out to be wrong. We're only relaying what we've seen first-hand.

Having met beat a couple of times and from communicating with him regularly over a number of years I can promise you he's the exact opposite of Dudder.

I will say seeing Dudder's name brought me a laugh; I wonder what he's up to these days?

Regards

International

Here take a look at his game by game totals as a freshman at Syracuse 2 short years ago. Only one game did he play more than 20 minutes. Why because a certain HOF coach wanted to bring him along slower as he was just a newbee to the game. Unfortunately Melo left the team last season, apparently due to academics. He is a kid that would have greatly benefited from another year or 2 in college but he's getting his minutes in the D league instead.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/fab-melo-1/gamelog/2011/

Now look at the following season at SU, only 1 game where he had 10 rebounds and this is for the guy that played defense in the back center of the 2-3 zone and was closest to the basket. He improved but still has so far to go.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/fab-melo-1/gamelog/2012/

There is really not much in these stats that jump out at you. Again the kid needs to play not sit. 2-3 minutes, couple points and rebounds a game up here won't do.

As I noted on my original post on this thread, getting to the line 9 times to me is much more important than the fact he made 8. If he can continue to get 7,8,or 9 or more opportunities at the line, perhaps that means his offensive moves are coming along. But they were not evident the past 2 years at Syracuse.

beat

Here are Fab Melo's current D-league stats:

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/fab_melo/index.html?nav=page


He's averaging over 25mpg. That's VERY good for him, not just because, as beat pointed out he only played over 20 minutes once two years ago and not once at all last year (if I'm understanding beat correctly). That means he has no experience at playing serious minutes. Steamer didn't play a lot of minutes at Wisconsin either, but he got minutes overseas. Melo is getting his minutes within the Celtics organization, no doubt playing a lot of Doc's schemes. He's paying his dues for his late blooming, just like Steamer did, and Steamer paid them for years. It has only been a few months for Melo.

Despite these two statistically outstanding games in a row, he's still only averaging only 10.4ppg, 6.7rpg and 3.9bpg. What this tells me is that, in his previous 8 games, his numbers were so bad that these two games couldn't make up for them. He's also averaging only .3apg with 1.5TOpg. I don't expect a big man to be good in the assists-to-TO ratio department, but .3:1.5 is quite bad and that's against D-league talent.

Remember Micah Downs, the toothpick we had in camp this year? He's averaging 7.7rpg. Dujuan Summers, a 6'8", 240# forward is averaging 6.8rpg. So, despite having these two really good rebounding game by Melo, there are still two starters outrebounding him. He is by far the biggest starter and he is #3 in rebounding.

I'd love for Melo to be ready, absolutely love it, but based upon what I saw in the video above (and this was one of those big games you are touting) he is not ready.

I'm a fan of players from south of the border, especially Argentineans but also Brazilians and Puerto Ricans. Argentineans are some tough, tough hombres. I was very happy when The Brazilian Blur, Leandro Barbosa, was signed by the Celtics. I thought Puerto Rican guard Ramon Sessions was unfairly unappreciated in LA and I think they made a mistake not resigning him (judging by the inferior quality of their point guard play, I feel vindicated). I'd love to have Varajao in green. I admit I'm not a big fan of Euros, but I make exception for frenchmen (Parker and Batum were born in France; Turiaf, Pietrus and Seraphin were born in French territories in the Carribean). They don't seem to be as soft as western Euro players tend to be in general.

Melo needs to put up big numbers, maybe not this big, on a regular basis. Consistency is much more important than highlights. He's playing against D-leaguers and if he can't own them, then he's got no chance against NBA-ers. Doc just won't play him and, if he cannot be confident in what he'll get from Melo when he does play, he shouldn't. Two monster games out of 10 games is a start, that's all. If he turns in these performances more regularly, then we'll, but twice out of ten tries? If a baseball player batted .200 he'd be in the minors too...

He's getting 25.4mpg now. He wouldn't get 25.4 minutes in a month in Boston. During the season, practices become rare. You watch video, spend time in the gym working on your individual game and do skeleton drills and walk-throughs. Does the #15 player on a team even do the skeletons, or does he just stand on the sidelines and watch 1-10 do them? Melo needs to play. He needs to play so that this all becomes instinctual to him and he doesn't have to think about where he should be and what he should do. When everything is new, you think before you react and as Doc said last night "thinking makes us into non-athletes". Melo's athleticism is hurt because he has to think about everything more than players who have been doing this since they were little children.

According to Jared Sullinger's father, Jared was shooting free throws with a regulation ball when he was 3 years old. Melo never even picked up a basketball until his mid-teens. No junior league, no YMCA or CYO league, no after school pickup games before he was 15. None. He just realized he was too big for soccer and changed direction. It takes more than that, though. When he moved to Florida at 17, he couldn't play his first year because of international transfer rules. Another year where he couldn't catch up developmentally with his peers. He played one season of college ball, in the back of a zone (which is NOT NBA ball) and part of another season. He didn't play in the NCAA tournament his second year, which would really have told us something about how ready he was to play against superior talent in pressure games.

If we call him up now, he'll be useless, because he's not ready. Give him another month or two or more of 25mpg and he's got a better chance.

Throwing him to the wolves just because we need help at center doesn't help him and it doesn't help us either.


bob


.

Bob

first year at SU he played only 20 minutes once, second year several times
he played more than 20. Just to clarify.

beat

well here is a solution: play melo both in the D league and in the C's jerseys:

the claws have a short break between dec. 31 and Jan 4
Boston hase a game on the 2nd

they have another break between jan 12 & 18th
Boston has games on 14th & 16th

claws break between 1- 21 & 1- 24
boston has a game on 1-22

between 1-27 & 2-7 the claws only have 2 games
boston however plays on 1-30, 2-1, 2-3, & 2-6

in march between the 10th and 14th there are no games
boston has games on the 12th & 13th

between the 17th and 20th the claws have no games
boston has 1 on the 18th

between march 23- 28 the claws have no games
boston has 2, on the 26th and 27th

between march 28th & april 5th the claws have no games
boston has games on march 29th, 30th, april 1 and april 3rd

between april 5 and april 9 the claws have no games
the celtics have one on april 7th

after the 9th the claws would only have playoffs games
however Melo could join the Celtics instrad for for games on the 10th, 12th, 13th, 16th and 17th.. then the playoffs.


that would cost Fab 2 Claw games not including the playoffs, but would allow him to be around the Vets for a total of 22 games + playoffs.

but im betting he'd be dang tired come playoffs... though past expereince says another body - especialy a big is invalubale to us in the post season.


**I DONT think its feasible of course... just thought id toss it out there..

Gentlemen, consider Sam's often used word: CONTINUITY.

Inserting such a raw rookie into the lineup would certainly disrupt continuity.

So I don't see Melo as a short term solution. Moreover, not only will he not get the playing/learning minutes he so urgently and evidently needs, but his psyche will be at risk. Getting embarrassed by seasoned pros is not a good way to develop the self confidence and skills needed to be an NBA player. Doc has such a proven track record developing players (Big Al, Ryan Gomes, Big Baby, Rondo, Avery Bradley, Steemer) that I'm one to trust his judgment on these matters. Think the tortoise and the hare fable here.

To no one in particular,

Hopefully, Danny will trade for at least a good backup center rather than bringing up an inconsistent young kid with many holes in his game who would very likely muck up the chemistry even more than it is already mucked up. I'd also like to see Danny add an experienced point guard for the bench. But, for the most part, what you see is the team that's going to take the Celtics as far as they'll go this season.

Doc realizes that the primary ongoing emphasis has to be on improving the chemistry.. Time, comfort with roles, and repetitions combine to represent the best pathway to chemistry improvement. It may not be an exciting way to go because chemistry isn't built in a day—just as was the case in each of the last two seasons, when injuries slowed the formation of the chemistry that generated dividends by April.

Sam

I think what International was trying to say was something like this. We could be the 8th seed with Collins, or the 8th seed with Melo. If he got brought up and was not playing that would definitely not be good. Some time on a regular basis might be if he was only focusing on defense, rebounding, and shot blocking. I am not saying whats right or wrong here, only there are more than 1 way to look at it.

Doc chooses his way to develop players. Other teams choose other ways. Would Lillard be playing if he was on the Celtics? Probably not, he would probably be in the D league as well. Some teams like to throw guys in the fire and see how they react.

I know I am on a short list here but unless your title contending with guys then I like getting rookies playing time. Speeding up their comfort zone in the NBA. Would changing Melo for Collins make a huge difference? I doubt it, not at 15 minutes a game.

With all that said, Doc knows more than me so I will stick with their observations. I just think back to when we had people like Raef getting most of the minutes for a bad team and Jefferson pretty much playing about 15 minutes a game. I know I was probably complaining daily of why not give the Al time. Turns out, that just the way Doc does things. With all the guys we say Doc has developed, who is to say they couldn't have gotten where they got a lot earlier if they had gotten the playing time?

Is Melo ready for prime time? Definitely not but the upside is huge compared to Collins. Of course I would definitely like to have a seasoned veteran that could "take over" at times. Hopefully we can get that player. I am pretty much comparing Collins with Melo. Someone else at center changes my view considerably. I guess you could say I am not a big Collins supporter.

OK start the flogging.

tardust

Melo needs minutes that is the bottom line for him, he's not going to help this team this year, he had a rather pedestrian game last evening but still played his minutes. perhaps there is upside to him in the future, obviously more than Collins but Collins knows the game at this level, Melo has really only played about 40 meaningful games with significant minutes counting the 20ish games last season at SU and the DL this year. So why bring a kid up that needs minutes to learn the game? To me there is no other way to look at it.

Plus name any coach that plays their lower first round or later picks more than Doc has over the past several years?

beat

Agreed he needs minutes in the D-League to further develop, but at some point if he keeps getting double-doubles or close, why not give him a shot?.....2 weeks, 4 weeks, at some point he could help us. He could do both, I like hooters idea, he can't be a worse rebounder than Steamer, he may defend close or as well.

tardust wrote:I think what International was trying to say was something like this. We could be the 8th seed with Collins, or the 8th seed with Melo. If he got brought up and was not playing that would definitely not be good. Some time on a regular basis might be if he was only focusing on defense, rebounding, and shot blocking. I am not saying whats right or wrong here, only there are more than 1 way to look at it.

Doc chooses his way to develop players. Other teams choose other ways. Would Lillard be playing if he was on the Celtics? Probably not, he would probably be in the D league as well. Some teams like to throw guys in the fire and see how they react.

I know I am on a short list here but unless your title contending with guys then I like getting rookies playing time. Speeding up their comfort zone in the NBA. Would changing Melo for Collins make a huge difference? I doubt it, not at 15 minutes a game.

With all that said, Doc knows more than me so I will stick with their observations. I just think back to when we had people like Raef getting most of the minutes for a bad team and Jefferson pretty much playing about 15 minutes a game. I know I was probably complaining daily of why not give the Al time. Turns out, that just the way Doc does things. With all the guys we say Doc has developed, who is to say they couldn't have gotten where they got a lot earlier if they had gotten the playing time?

Is Melo ready for prime time? Definitely not but the upside is huge compared to Collins. Of course I would definitely like to have a seasoned veteran that could "take over" at times. Hopefully we can get that player. I am pretty much comparing Collins with Melo. Someone else at center changes my view considerably. I guess you could say I am not a big Collins supporter.

OK start the flogging.

Tardust,

No flogging, all opinions are valid. Well maybe a slight flogging for mentioning Raef!

There is certainly a big void when it comes to available bigs. You need to look no further for proof than that forward we just brought in whose name I can't even remember right now. The guy's name might as well be "who?" He's also got about that much potential to return to the NBA next year, yet that's who we bring in. It's almost comical, but that's what's available, so I get the theory on bringing Melo up. I'm just in the camp, especially having seen him play, that even what's-his-name we just signed is probably more ready.

Regards

Cow

He'll get his shot but doubt it will be this year. Realize the people he's playing against at this level are a lot less skilled than what he'll face here.

Oh he can be a far worse rebounder than steamer.

Think Bob H put it best, name another player in the D league or NBA that did not pick up a basketball before they were 15-16 years old? He's thinking what he needs to do rather than just doing it and the only way to get better is to play minutes. To throw him in up here would gain nothing and perhaps even set him back some (mentally). I am seeing improvement, vast improvement from even last season at SU. Let him continue to achieve success and perhaps later another 2 months lets review it. He's young and big, Let him learn the game and I think we'll all be pleasantly surprised, I hope.

beat

Tardust ,thanks for your interpretation of what i was trying to say.But i am not trying to say that Melo is ready to play with the celtics right now or that he is better than Jason Collins.IM the first to know that he is not a finished product yet.....But what i cant understand is that while i was talking about how the kid was improving and getting closer to help the team,many were talking about ....The poor quality of the league,the raw that he is,the bad that he looked with siracuse and many things that i have seen in the past with some fans of the Celtics and in my opinion are negative.Who does not remember people saying..Avery Bradley is wasted pick,Tony Allen does not know how to play under control,Perks is not going to help the team because his hands are like bricks and in 3 years he will be flipping burgers.And the time proved they were wrong.I wish i could express my feelings better but enlish is just my second language.

In baseball i am a fan of the Cincinatti Reds and i remember reds fans saying....Aroldis Chapman is too raw to be our closer,that wont works....and you know what in my opinion he was the best closer in the past season.Trust in your prospect ,that is the message here.

international wrote:In baseball i am a fan of the Cincinatti Reds and i remember reds fans saying....Aroldis Chapman is too raw to be our closer,that wont works....and you know what in my opinion he was the best closer in the past season.Trust in your prospect ,that is the message here.

intl,


I think the Celtics do trust in their prospect. That's why he's in Maine and not in Europe.

You're right, though, there were no shortage of people who wanted to trade Bradley for a dead dog 2 years ago.

Melo's progress, in my opinion, has been nothing short of amazing. He never touched a basketball until he was a freshman/sophomore in high school. He didn't play organized basketball until he was a senior in high school. He only played 2 years in college. When you put it in that perspective he's practically a prodigy.

He's not done cooking though. He needs to stay in the pot for a while longer.

Your points are well made and appreciated. We need patience, especially me.

Know where I can buy some? :-)


bob


.

Fab Melo is better than Perk was at this point but the Celtics do not have to bring him up just yet.

I do think there is a chance that he could play a bit later in nthe year. I'm rather optimistic about his potential to become a NBA quality starting center. The Kid is only 22 and has only been playing baskeball for a relatively short period of time. He has skills that just need to be developed.

While d league stats are suspect, it is nice to see his play as of late.

dboss

beat wrote:Cow

He'll get his shot but doubt it will be this year. Realize the people he's playing against at this level are a lot less skilled than what he'll face here.

Oh he can be a far worse rebounder than steamer.

Think Bob H put it best, name another player in the D league or NBA that did not pick up a basketball before they were 15-16 years old? He's thinking what he needs to do rather than just doing it and the only way to get better is to play minutes. To throw him in up here would gain nothing and perhaps even set him back some (mentally). I am seeing improvement, vast improvement from even last season at SU. Let him continue to achieve success and perhaps later another 2 months lets review it. He's young and big, Let him learn the game and I think we'll all be pleasantly surprised, I hope.

beat

I hear what your saying beat, did you know KG had 4 points and 1 rebound in the first half tonight? he finished with 6 and 3....kinda shocking. I think we may need some inside help. He may not be ready now or in 2 months, and once he gets to the varsity theres another new learning curve, hes gonna go through growing pains whether hes brought up in 2 weeks or 2 months. I think I like hooters idea the best, sooner we let him get his feet wet here, sooner he might add some energy for a playoff run, we need length, hes gonna make mistakes during the process, sooner he goes through all that, sooner we'll know what we have, hopefully he can add some youthful 7 foot help.....I want to know!!!!