Sources: Mutual interest with Rivers, Clips
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Sources: Mutual interest with Rivers, Clips
ESPNBOSTON.COM
June, 13, 2013
By ESPNBoston.com
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics
The latest twist in the Doc Rivers saga? Sources told ESPN on Thursday that there is strong mutual interest between Rivers and the Los Angeles Clippers if he were to move on from Boston:
The Los Angeles Clippers have not formally requested permission to interview Celtics coach Doc Rivers in the wake of widespread reports about Rivers' potential departure from Boston, but there is strong mutual interest between the parties, according to sources close to the situation.
Sources told ESPN.com on Wednesday that Rivers is highly intrigued by the idea of coaching the Clippers in the event that he and the Celtics part company after nine seasons together and one championship in 2008. Sources say that the Clippers, meanwhile, would immediately vault Rivers to the top of their list if he became available as they continue a coaching search that, to this point, has focused on Brian Shaw, Byron Scott and Lionel Hollins.
Earlier Wednesday, the Los Angeles Times, citing several NBA executives, reported that if Rivers decides he doesn't want to coach in Boston anymore, the Clippers would be interested in him and he would become their No. 1 choice.
ESPN.com has also learned that the Celtics and Clippers -- in an offshoot of February's Kevin Garnett-to-L.A. trade talks -- discussed expanded trade scenarios that could have sent both Garnett and close friend Paul Pierce to the Clippers before the league's Feb. 21 trade deadline.
Sources say that those talks, before breaking down, were centered on Boston getting back both prized Clippers guard Eric Bledsoe and young center DeAndre Jordan and did not involve Clippers star forward Blake Griffin.
It is not yet known whether the Clippers intend to revive those trade discussions and pursue either Garnett or Pierce -- or both -- in conjunction with this month's NBA draft. But one source familiar with the Clippers' thinking told ESPN.com that the club plans to be "very aggressive" and "shake every tree" in terms of upgrading the roster this offseason. Acquiring Garnett or Pierce -- or both -- would naturally make Rivers even more of a natural coaching target for the Clippers than he already is.
And a quick note about Rivers and the Celtics from the bottom of that story:
Rivers was originally scheduled to attend Boston's workout Thursday of potential draftees but was delayed after traveling back from a competition committee meeting at the NBA Finals in San Antonio. Sources say Rivers has attended most of Boston's draft workouts while deliberating about his future and has likewise been involved in Boston's free-agent planning as well as visits with veterans Rondo, Jared Sullinger and Jason Terry, who have all been at the Celtics' workout facility rehabbing from injuries.
112288
June, 13, 2013
By ESPNBoston.com
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics
The latest twist in the Doc Rivers saga? Sources told ESPN on Thursday that there is strong mutual interest between Rivers and the Los Angeles Clippers if he were to move on from Boston:
The Los Angeles Clippers have not formally requested permission to interview Celtics coach Doc Rivers in the wake of widespread reports about Rivers' potential departure from Boston, but there is strong mutual interest between the parties, according to sources close to the situation.
Sources told ESPN.com on Wednesday that Rivers is highly intrigued by the idea of coaching the Clippers in the event that he and the Celtics part company after nine seasons together and one championship in 2008. Sources say that the Clippers, meanwhile, would immediately vault Rivers to the top of their list if he became available as they continue a coaching search that, to this point, has focused on Brian Shaw, Byron Scott and Lionel Hollins.
Earlier Wednesday, the Los Angeles Times, citing several NBA executives, reported that if Rivers decides he doesn't want to coach in Boston anymore, the Clippers would be interested in him and he would become their No. 1 choice.
ESPN.com has also learned that the Celtics and Clippers -- in an offshoot of February's Kevin Garnett-to-L.A. trade talks -- discussed expanded trade scenarios that could have sent both Garnett and close friend Paul Pierce to the Clippers before the league's Feb. 21 trade deadline.
Sources say that those talks, before breaking down, were centered on Boston getting back both prized Clippers guard Eric Bledsoe and young center DeAndre Jordan and did not involve Clippers star forward Blake Griffin.
It is not yet known whether the Clippers intend to revive those trade discussions and pursue either Garnett or Pierce -- or both -- in conjunction with this month's NBA draft. But one source familiar with the Clippers' thinking told ESPN.com that the club plans to be "very aggressive" and "shake every tree" in terms of upgrading the roster this offseason. Acquiring Garnett or Pierce -- or both -- would naturally make Rivers even more of a natural coaching target for the Clippers than he already is.
And a quick note about Rivers and the Celtics from the bottom of that story:
Rivers was originally scheduled to attend Boston's workout Thursday of potential draftees but was delayed after traveling back from a competition committee meeting at the NBA Finals in San Antonio. Sources say Rivers has attended most of Boston's draft workouts while deliberating about his future and has likewise been involved in Boston's free-agent planning as well as visits with veterans Rondo, Jared Sullinger and Jason Terry, who have all been at the Celtics' workout facility rehabbing from injuries.
112288
112288- Posts : 7855
Join date : 2009-10-16
Re: Sources: Mutual interest with Rivers, Clips
The Stephen A. Conspiracy lives on with a bit more truth and steam than originally thought.
Of course, all of this makes Doc look very shifty. Why attend meetings and workouts if you aren't actually staying? Any person with even a sliver of rational thought would deem that practice as unnecessary.
Of course, all of this makes Doc look very shifty. Why attend meetings and workouts if you aren't actually staying? Any person with even a sliver of rational thought would deem that practice as unnecessary.
k_j_88- Posts : 4748
Join date : 2013-01-06
Age : 35
Re: Sources: Mutual interest with Rivers, Clips
kj until he leaves he still wants to fill all his duties, I welcome his input into the draft process....if he leaves were not gonna see Pierce and KG in green anymore. I'd be sad, but realistically how much would each have by next years playoff grind? We've got some young pieces, lets really rebuild.
cowens/oldschool- Posts : 27667
Join date : 2009-10-18
Re: Sources: Mutual interest with Rivers, Clips
I don't know if all this Rivers to the Clips and revived trade talk is BS or has any grain of truth. If we were able to get Bledsoe and Jordan in exchange for KG and Pierce and have to lose Doc in doing so it gets a little more interesting, however. Especially if we were also able to draft a forward with the potential to supply a few minutes of reliable depth as an NBA player. I'd hate to see Doc go, but there are usually several good coaching options available. This will probably just turn out to be more re-heated leftovers from the rumor mill.
NYCelt- Posts : 10791
Join date : 2009-10-12
Re: Sources: Mutual interest with Rivers, Clips
ALL I CAN SAY IS WHERE THERE IS SMOKE THERE IS FIRE!
Listen, if everything was sunshine and lolly pops between Doc and the Celtics...but more so Doc ....he would have cleared the air already..... there is something going on and we have to wait until the finals are decided. The NBA hates grandstanding by other teams drawing focus away from the finals........next week is D Day for Doc and Ainge.
The Celtic could build a heck of a team....by getting comp for Doc......maybe Pierce and KG go and follow Doc ...so we can get some talent there....then there are the free agents and some trades.
112288
Listen, if everything was sunshine and lolly pops between Doc and the Celtics...but more so Doc ....he would have cleared the air already..... there is something going on and we have to wait until the finals are decided. The NBA hates grandstanding by other teams drawing focus away from the finals........next week is D Day for Doc and Ainge.
The Celtic could build a heck of a team....by getting comp for Doc......maybe Pierce and KG go and follow Doc ...so we can get some talent there....then there are the free agents and some trades.
112288
112288- Posts : 7855
Join date : 2009-10-16
Re: Sources: Mutual interest with Rivers, Clips
Very astute 112288. The NBA does hate anything that would take the focus off the finals. Look for big Celtics news when the Finals are over. Meanwhile quite a roller coaster ride. Both the Spurs and the Heat have so much more talent than the Celtics - just goes to show how important Rajon is to the Celtics. His talent is stratospheric.
Re: Sources: Mutual interest with Rivers, Clips
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/06/12/doc-rivers-considering-not-returning-celtics/j5U7i6IPM7o2gL5nmattdN/story.html
According to this article, the Celtics would be looking for two 1st round picks over a 3-4 year period but it is also reasonable the Celtics would want multiple players in addition to draft picks.
I don't know how they could include players, considering that Doc's salary isn't included in the salary cap calculations, but this is intriguing.
1. I don't see Human Eyesore Donald Sterling paying Doc $7M/year.
2. I don't see Human Eyesore Donald Sterling giving up cheap, young talent when that leaves him with having to replace it with more expensive talent.
If, however, this works out, I'd be thrilled. I'm not anti-Doc like some posters here are projecting, but IF he is going to leave, leaving to a western conference team and getting multiple 1sts and/or young talent in return would be sweet. It would give Trader Danny a chance to quickly stock up on chips like he did leading up to the blockbusters that brought us Ray and KG.
bob
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According to this article, the Celtics would be looking for two 1st round picks over a 3-4 year period but it is also reasonable the Celtics would want multiple players in addition to draft picks.
I don't know how they could include players, considering that Doc's salary isn't included in the salary cap calculations, but this is intriguing.
1. I don't see Human Eyesore Donald Sterling paying Doc $7M/year.
2. I don't see Human Eyesore Donald Sterling giving up cheap, young talent when that leaves him with having to replace it with more expensive talent.
If, however, this works out, I'd be thrilled. I'm not anti-Doc like some posters here are projecting, but IF he is going to leave, leaving to a western conference team and getting multiple 1sts and/or young talent in return would be sweet. It would give Trader Danny a chance to quickly stock up on chips like he did leading up to the blockbusters that brought us Ray and KG.
bob
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bobheckler- Posts : 62527
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: Sources: Mutual interest with Rivers, Clips
Yep. If you know about Donald Sterling, this would be the most shocking part of the deal.bobheckler wrote:1. I don't see Human Eyesore Donald Sterling paying Doc $7M/year.
2. I don't see Human Eyesore Donald Sterling giving up cheap, young talent when that leaves him with having to replace it with more expensive talent.
Outside- Posts : 3019
Join date : 2009-11-05
Re: Sources: Mutual interest with Rivers, Clips
Would someone please be kind enough to tell me how the Celtics could trade away $28,356,610 in salaries (KG & Pierce) while getting only $12,240,697 in return (Jordan and Bledsoe)? If the Celts also received two first round draft picks, that would represent roughly another $9 million to their incoming value, so they'd be be receiving about $21 million and trading away approximately $28 million. I'm wondering if there's some device that would allow them to use Pierce's $5 million guarantee instead of his $15 million in the calculation.
Sam
Sam
Re: Sources: Mutual interest with Rivers, Clips
Sam
Draft picks have 0 dollar value.
Swish
Draft picks have 0 dollar value.
Swish
swish- Posts : 3147
Join date : 2009-10-16
Age : 92
Re: Sources: Mutual interest with Rivers, Clips
sam wrote:Would someone please be kind enough to tell me how the Celtics could trade away $28,356,610 in salaries (KG & Pierce) while getting only $12,240,697 in return (Jordan and Bledsoe)? If the Celts also received two first round draft picks, that would represent roughly another $9 million to their incoming value, so they'd be be receiving about $21 million and trading away approximately $28 million. I'm wondering if there's some device that would allow them to use Pierce's $5 million guarantee instead of his $15 million in the calculation.
Sam
sam,
Pierce, yes; KG, no. The numbers could work for Pierce and Doc for Jordan and Bledsoe. Why the Clips would agree to that I have no idea, but the numbers would work.
bob
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bobheckler- Posts : 62527
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: Sources: Mutual interest with Rivers, Clips
Swish,
thanks for the correction. I have always felt that draft picks have no financial trade value, but I thought I saw something a while ago that disputed that fact. In crafting that post, I did a cursory search and found something that did assign values to picks; but, on closer inspection (which I should have made in the first place), they were talking about the salary scale. All of that makes my initial question even more appropriate.
Sam
thanks for the correction. I have always felt that draft picks have no financial trade value, but I thought I saw something a while ago that disputed that fact. In crafting that post, I did a cursory search and found something that did assign values to picks; but, on closer inspection (which I should have made in the first place), they were talking about the salary scale. All of that makes my initial question even more appropriate.
Sam
Re: Sources: Mutual interest with Rivers, Clips
Bob'
I have Garnett at about 11.5 mil. and Jordan-Bledsoe combined at about 12.2 mil. I believes thats a match.
Swish
I have Garnett at about 11.5 mil. and Jordan-Bledsoe combined at about 12.2 mil. I believes thats a match.
Swish
swish- Posts : 3147
Join date : 2009-10-16
Age : 92
Re: Sources: Mutual interest with Rivers, Clips
swish wrote:Bob'
I have Garnett at about 11.5 mil. and Jordan-Bledsoe combined at about 12.2 mil. I believes thats a match.
Swish
swish,
You're right.
bob
.
bobheckler- Posts : 62527
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: Sources: Mutual interest with Rivers, Clips
Sam
Below quote taken from ESPN article which is the subject of this thread.
" discussed expanded trade scenarios that could have sent both Garnett and close friend Paul Pierce to the Clippers before the league's Feb. 21 trade deadline.
Sources say that those talks, before breaking down, were centered on Boston getting back both prized Clippers guard Eric Bledsoe and young center DeAndre Jordan and did not involve Clippers star forward Blake Griffin."
I assume your concern about matching salary in the trade is based on above quote in this ESPN article. If so' please note that the writer states that the talks were "centered" on Bledsoe and Jordan. I guess that this could mean that other players could be involved to make the numbers work.
Swish
Below quote taken from ESPN article which is the subject of this thread.
" discussed expanded trade scenarios that could have sent both Garnett and close friend Paul Pierce to the Clippers before the league's Feb. 21 trade deadline.
Sources say that those talks, before breaking down, were centered on Boston getting back both prized Clippers guard Eric Bledsoe and young center DeAndre Jordan and did not involve Clippers star forward Blake Griffin."
I assume your concern about matching salary in the trade is based on above quote in this ESPN article. If so' please note that the writer states that the talks were "centered" on Bledsoe and Jordan. I guess that this could mean that other players could be involved to make the numbers work.
Swish
swish- Posts : 3147
Join date : 2009-10-16
Age : 92
Re: Sources: Mutual interest with Rivers, Clips
According to celticstown.com, they have an exclusive peek at Danny's short list to replace Doc. These are beyond Vinnie del Negro, who is allegedly being considered as a short-term filler.
I know, it isn't a done deal Doc's gone and all, and this might just be a writer's opium-induced hallucination but hell, we have to have SOME fun with this, don't we?
CelticsTown has gotten an exclusive look at the rest of Ainge’s shortlist of potential replacements for Doc. Let’s examine each candidate:
bob
MY NOTE: Can you imagine, JUST IMAGINE, the heads that would be exploding around the Bay State if Rick Pitino were hired again (which would include my own)? As far as Phil Jackson goes, it sure would be weird having him on the bench in green, but if he brings us #18, I'm ok with that. It sure would be a thumb in the eye of Jim Buss, wouldn't it? Wow. There's no fury like that of a multi-millionairess and her Zen Master. Who'd be coming next? Free agent Kobe Bryant? How about the Zen Master coming in as a head coach, KG is his assistant coach (maybe we can get Brian Shaw too?) and in a year or two or three Jackson retires (he's 67 years old) and KG moves up? Whoa, I'm starting to make myself dizzy...
.
I know, it isn't a done deal Doc's gone and all, and this might just be a writer's opium-induced hallucination but hell, we have to have SOME fun with this, don't we?
CelticsTown has gotten an exclusive look at the rest of Ainge’s shortlist of potential replacements for Doc. Let’s examine each candidate:
- Mike Rice- Sources say Ainge really likes the former Rutgers coach’s fierce competitiveness, fiery demeanor, and willingness to do whatever it takes to win. Rice is believed to be the type of strong-willed disciplinarian that Rajon Rondo needs to reign him in.
- Phil Jackson- Ainge has placed a call to the Zen Master, according to a source close to the situation. The general manager felt he wouldn’t be doing his job if he didn’t place a call to the most respected hoops coach alive. Jackson showed strong interest in the position. Sources say Jackson and his girlfriend, Jeanie Buss, are upset with her brother, Lakers owner Jim Buss, and are out for some competitive revenge. Jackson is also enamored with the idea of winning 10 consecutive championships, one more than the legendary Red Auerbach, in honor of his former coach Red Holzman.
- Kevin Garnett- Under the current rules of the CBA, a player-coach is not allowed, so Garnett would have to retire to coach the Celtics. Garnett, however, does not want to play for another coach and will retire if Rivers leaves, according to an anonymous source. Garnett has kept a close eye on Jason Kidd’s recent hire in New Jersey and has exchanged text messages with Kidd. Garnett has already reached out to Flip Saunders to be the associate head coach on his hypothetical staff. At the age of 36, Garnett has been thinking a lot about his legacy and wants to pass on his knowledge to the ‘young ins’ coming into the league.
- Rick Pitino- Larry Bird is not walking through that door, but Pitino may be. Multiple sources have noted Pitino is Ainge’s No.1 target, should Rivers walk away fro his deal. Pitino, however, is coming off an NCAA national championship and his price tag will reportedly be roughly $10 million per season. The Lousiville coach has a history with Boston, and Paul Pierce has particularly strong feelings for his old coach. The full-court trap did not work the first time around but Ainge is confident that, with Rondo, Avery Bradley, and Jeff Green, the Celtics have the personnel to make it work.
bob
MY NOTE: Can you imagine, JUST IMAGINE, the heads that would be exploding around the Bay State if Rick Pitino were hired again (which would include my own)? As far as Phil Jackson goes, it sure would be weird having him on the bench in green, but if he brings us #18, I'm ok with that. It sure would be a thumb in the eye of Jim Buss, wouldn't it? Wow. There's no fury like that of a multi-millionairess and her Zen Master. Who'd be coming next? Free agent Kobe Bryant? How about the Zen Master coming in as a head coach, KG is his assistant coach (maybe we can get Brian Shaw too?) and in a year or two or three Jackson retires (he's 67 years old) and KG moves up? Whoa, I'm starting to make myself dizzy...
.
bobheckler- Posts : 62527
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: Sources: Mutual interest with Rivers, Clips
The Zen Master, huh? Now THAT is intriguing.
I'd pass on Pitino. Been there, done that.
I'd pass on Pitino. Been there, done that.
k_j_88- Posts : 4748
Join date : 2013-01-06
Age : 35
Re: Sources: Mutual interest with Rivers, Clips
Bob,
Is it April 1st? Or maybe CelticsTown copied that from The Onion? Because that's what that list looks like -- a prank.
Is it April 1st? Or maybe CelticsTown copied that from The Onion? Because that's what that list looks like -- a prank.
Outside- Posts : 3019
Join date : 2009-11-05
Re: Sources: Mutual interest with Rivers, Clips
Outside wrote:Bob,
Is it April 1st? Or maybe CelticsTown copied that from The Onion? Because that's what that list looks like -- a prank.
Outside,
I did say "let's have some fun with this", didn't I?
I ran into my old purple-and-gold buddy Will last night. He says the rumor making the circuit in Lakerland is that a company named AEG, which owns about 30% of the Lakers and the Staples Center, have joined forces with Jeannie Buss and have had a "come to Jesus" meeting with Jim Buss (per Will, Kobe was in this meeting too). The point of the meeting (and this is all per my Laker fanatic friend, not me) was to convince/force Jim Buss to step down. The Machiavellian goal, per Will, was to have Phil Jackson run the Lakers.
Even if Jeannie Buss were to throw her lot in with AEG, that would not be enough. There are 6 Buss children, tied together in a Trust in which they promise to keep majority ownership of the Lakers. This virtually guarantees they would have to agree to sellout together and I DO NOT see that happening in my lifetime. Jeannie controls 1/6 of 66%. 30% + 11% is not greater than 50%.
Bottom line, don't take any of this too seriously. My Laker friend is finally starting to agree with me about Jim Buss and is glomming onto any rumor, however easily disprovable, that gets him to happy. I don't see any change in Laker land AND I do not see Phil Jackson coaching a team that is more than 1 piece away from the Finals (Danny's words, not mine, although I agree with him). That is NOT his track record, to say the least.
As far as KG becoming the coach? He can't even sit on the bench when he's injured and watch the game. Does anybody really think he could do it in a suit and tie? The first time someone missed a defensive rotation he'd run out onto the floor in his size 15 Bruno Maglis and start barking at them in french (or, at least, in a language that had a lot of 'f's in it).
To paraphrase Rick Pitino, "Rick Pitino is not walking through that door, fans". I can't tell you how much it relieves me to say that.
bob
.
bobheckler- Posts : 62527
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: Sources: Mutual interest with Rivers, Clips
Swish,
If the Clips did include other players, that would definitely have to be recorded as one of the most blockbuster trades of all-time.....sort of along the line of the two trades that netted the Celtics Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett. Hmmmmmmm.
I just hope the Celtics refuse to make the deal without the inclusion of Bledsoe. I don't see Eric playing second fiddle to Rondo after playing second fiddle to Paul, but the combination of Bledsoe and Rondo on the roster would give Danny considerable maneuvering flexibility.
Moreover, if a deal were finalized in the next few days, it would give them time to move Paul Pierce (which I surely believe they would do) before the June 30 date when his $15 million salary becomes guaranteed.
Sam
Sam
If the Clips did include other players, that would definitely have to be recorded as one of the most blockbuster trades of all-time.....sort of along the line of the two trades that netted the Celtics Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett. Hmmmmmmm.
I just hope the Celtics refuse to make the deal without the inclusion of Bledsoe. I don't see Eric playing second fiddle to Rondo after playing second fiddle to Paul, but the combination of Bledsoe and Rondo on the roster would give Danny considerable maneuvering flexibility.
Moreover, if a deal were finalized in the next few days, it would give them time to move Paul Pierce (which I surely believe they would do) before the June 30 date when his $15 million salary becomes guaranteed.
Sam
Sam
Re: Sources: Mutual interest with Rivers, Clips
Bob,
Well, the list started with Mike Rice, the guy who got fired from Rutgers because he physically, verbally, and emotionally abused his players and is now as toxic as Chernobyl. Plus, the guy went 44-51 at Rutgers. This immediately made me think the list was a joke.
Then we have Phil. Besides the whole Celtic/Laker tension issue, have you seen him walk recently? He's had both hips replaced, has back issues requiring a special chair, and his ability to move around is compromised. I can see him taking a front office job, but I don't think he'll coach again because of physical reasons.
KG will never coach. He has the wrong mindset for it. Like the vast majority of elite players before him, he isn't cut out for coaching. He would have no patience for players who don't have the level of commitment he has, which means he wouldn't have patience for anyone. Anyone who thinks he'll step from player directly to coach like Jason Kidd needs to get their meds checked.
(Separate topic -- who was the best player to ever become a really good coach? Lenny Wilkins is probably the greatest player/coach combo, but guys like Tommy Heinsohn and Bill Sharman also come to mind. I discount Bill Russell, because he was only a good coach when he had himself for a player.)
Rick Pitino 2.0 -- Start the list with Mike Rice and end it with Rick Pitino? Why not add Sidney Wicks as a special assistant. You know, since it's a prank list.
At some point, this will resolve itself and we'll know who the Celtic coach is for next season (and half the other teams in the league looking for a new coach). Until then, I'm going with the Rick Pitino/Sidney Wicks combo as the frontrunner.
Well, the list started with Mike Rice, the guy who got fired from Rutgers because he physically, verbally, and emotionally abused his players and is now as toxic as Chernobyl. Plus, the guy went 44-51 at Rutgers. This immediately made me think the list was a joke.
Then we have Phil. Besides the whole Celtic/Laker tension issue, have you seen him walk recently? He's had both hips replaced, has back issues requiring a special chair, and his ability to move around is compromised. I can see him taking a front office job, but I don't think he'll coach again because of physical reasons.
KG will never coach. He has the wrong mindset for it. Like the vast majority of elite players before him, he isn't cut out for coaching. He would have no patience for players who don't have the level of commitment he has, which means he wouldn't have patience for anyone. Anyone who thinks he'll step from player directly to coach like Jason Kidd needs to get their meds checked.
(Separate topic -- who was the best player to ever become a really good coach? Lenny Wilkins is probably the greatest player/coach combo, but guys like Tommy Heinsohn and Bill Sharman also come to mind. I discount Bill Russell, because he was only a good coach when he had himself for a player.)
Rick Pitino 2.0 -- Start the list with Mike Rice and end it with Rick Pitino? Why not add Sidney Wicks as a special assistant. You know, since it's a prank list.
At some point, this will resolve itself and we'll know who the Celtic coach is for next season (and half the other teams in the league looking for a new coach). Until then, I'm going with the Rick Pitino/Sidney Wicks combo as the frontrunner.
Outside- Posts : 3019
Join date : 2009-11-05
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