POST GAME SPURS - AWAY

Rapid Reaction: Spurs 104, Celtics 93

By Chris Forsberg | ESPNBoston.com

Rapid reaction after the San Antonio Spurs defeated the Boston Celtics 104-93 on Wednesday night at the AT&T Center:

THE NITTY GRITTY
Boston bounced back with a little extra spunk after Tuesday's dismantling in Houston and hung with one of the league's elite for 2 ½ quarters. Moral victory achieved. The Spurs dominated much of the second half, but coach Brad Stevens can find a silver lining in his team's competitiveness. Jared Sullinger, making his first start of the season as Boston tweaked its first-unit frontcourt, had a double-double by halftime and finished with a team-high 19 points and 17 rebounds over 31:24. Avery Bradley continued to fire away and matched that output with 19 points on 9-of-18 shooting. Both Jeff Green (19 points) and Jordan Crawford (12) also finished in double figures, but Boston's bench combined for a mere 16 points. Tony Parker paced San Antonio with a team-high 19 points, while Tiago Splitter added 11 points and 10 rebounds.

TURNING POINT
The Spurs owned a one-possession lead midway through the third quarter, but an 8-0 burst that culminated with a Parker layup put the Spurs out front by double digits (71-60). Boston never got closer than seven the rest of the way, though a late surge trimmed the deficit to single digits in the final minutes after San Antonio pushed its lead as high as 19 in the fourth quarter.

LOOSE BALLS
The Celtics generated only four points off 12 San Antonio turnovers, while the Spurs shaped 17 Boston turnovers into 25 points. ... Boston actually won the battle on the glass (44-41). ... The Celtics led by seven in the first half. ... Vitor Faverani played only 2:05 in a bench role, while Kris Humphries got a five-minute burst in the second half. ... Keith Bogans did not dress due to illness. ... MarShon Brooks was the only player active who did not play.

WHAT IT MEANS
The Celtics (4-9) have now lost five in a row and limp back to Boston a bit after a tough three-game road trip. There's no time to lick its wounds. A visit from the East-leading Indiana Pacers looms on Friday to open a back-to-back that closes the next night in Atlanta.
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THIS IS NOT GOOD ABOUT WALLACE

NBA FINES GERALD WALLACE FOR SWEARING, WARNS JARED SULLINGER FOR FLOPPING

By Ben Rohrbach

The NBA levied a $10,000 fine against Celtics forward Gerald Wallace for his postgame comments during a locker room interview after Tuesday’s dreadful 109-85 loss to the Rockets. “I don’t know what the [expletive] tonight was, just to be honest with you,” Wallace told the media. “I don’t really know what was going on.”

Wallace has been extremely vocal after Celtics losses, regularly criticizing his teammates for their effort, but the NBA is walking a dangerous line by establishing a precedent for fining a player who used vulgar language during a locker room interview. After all, Kevin Garnett wasn’t exactly Mary Poppins.

Meanwhile, the NBA also issued a warning against Celtics forward Jared Sullinger for flopping while boxing out Houston center Dwight Howard. Of course, the game was already over at that point. A second offense would result in a $5,000 fine for Sullinger. In other words, swearing after a loss is twice as bad as flopping during one.
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FAST BREAK: CELTICS DROP FIFTH STRAIGHT, SPOIL JARED SULLINGER’S FIRST START

By Ben Rohrbach

It wasn’t quite as bad as Tuesday’s loss to the Rockets, but the Celtics dropped their fifth straight, 104-93 to the Spurs.

The C’s actually played San Antonio to a standstill in the first half, but the defending Western Conference champions outscored Boston by 10 in the third quarter and never looked back.

Jared Sullinger totaled 19 points and 17 rebounds in his first start of the season. Avery Bradley and Jeff Green also chipped in with 19 points apiece, but the C’s fell to 4-9 on the season.

WHAT WENT WRONG

Giving it up: The Celtics committed 17 turnovers, and that’s not even the bad news. The Spurs were outscoring the C’s 25-0 on points off turnovers at one point. You’re not winning many games with that kind of discrepancy.

Bass low: Coming off the bench for the first time this season, Brandon Bass finished with a minus-21 plus/minus rating in 19 minutes. His six points tied a season-low and his one rebound was his lowest output since Jan. 2.

Interior defense: The biggest problem for the C’s this season has been the lack of an interior presence. The Spurs found Boris Diaw time and again wide open under the basket, and San Antonio finished with 48 points in the paint as a team. Starting bigs Tim Duncan and Tiago Splitter combined for 24 points and 19 rebounds.

WHAT WENT RIGHT

Jelly Sullynyk: Celtics coach Brad Stevens tried his fifth different lineup in his first 13 games, finally teaming the complementary Sullinger and Olynyk combination to open the first quarter. Sullinger responded with his first double-double of the season, and Olynyk added eight points and eight boards.

Bradley buckets: Starting 7-of-11 from midrange, Bradley improved to 47.6 percent (40-84 FG) from that range — a clip that ranks second among guards who play 20 minutes a night, trailing only Mo Williams. Bradley made a concerted effort to improve his jumper this summer — his first without an injury — and it’s paid off big time.

Green machine: After scoring just six points combined in his last two games, Green bounced back to score 19 points on 14 shots, adding five rebounds and three assists.

112288

ALL IS WELL...................

112288

The main difference in the 3rd quarter was the Spur's offense was pass, pass, pass, shoot while ours was dribble, dribble, dribble, shoot. Their floor spacing was wide open where ours was tight with too many players bunched up. We seldom passed the ball up the court - again too much dribbling. I hope our point guards aren't taking lessons from Rondo as that has been his game.
Altogether though, an encouraging game, especially from Sullinger. Bass is suffering from not getting passed to until he is covered. He really needs someone like Rondo to succeed. I'm not very optimistic for the game with the Pacers. Hibbert is the kind of center that has eaten us up. If Sully and Kelly start will that make any difference?

Berlin,

We get Rondo back playing and we get a REAL STARTING CENTER..........we will be a good club.

KO is NO CENTER ....he also has got to start to learn to create his own shot....not open looks. Bradley was no point guard and now as #2 guard he looks like an All Star.............KO is no center and the quicker they can give him time at SF or PF on second unit the better.

112288

112288

Agree with KO........ but our options there are slim and none right now. If he is going to be there for any amount of minutes he needs to run.....constantly.... and then some.

beat

Beat,

KO is a stop gap measure right now and hopefully a center will emerge through a trade.

112288

Considering it was The Spurs, who talent wise should beat us by about 50 points, this wasn't a bad showing.  The Celtics are showing a few real positives with the roster they have, and there is reason to be cautiously optimistic that we're going to see more than a few competitive games this season.

Olynyk may be our future PF, if we can build defense around him, since he can't help there.  As a scoring option, we may be seeing the tip of the iceberg.  He's a big that needs to be away from the basket, but if we acquire complimentary personnel over the next couple of years, that could be OK.

Sullinger could be a great rotation option with Olynyk at PF.  The reason we got him so far back in the draft was his back and weight problems.  Back got repaired, now if we can get him to stop gaining weight and get in shape we've got something.  He and Olynyk may end up giving us a good combo at the 4. The only worry on Sully is that our uniform sizes don't go as big as he might need.

Wallace, as an expensive rental, is a good 6th man.  Brings hustle and defense.

Rondo, upon his return, will give us 4 solid players every night.

The unknowns...

Jeff Green

Avery Bradley

Both are terribly inconsistent, although Bradley can defend, he can't always shoot.  Green is partially suffering from the fact that other teams can key on him to slow our offense.

Hi,
Speaking about KO. He needs experience, especially on defense.
Last night I was trying to use my telepathic abilities to make him to rotate back to the player he was guarding but unfortunately it didn't work through TV (I should talk to Comcast about it) and he didn't do it on his own on time. A year or two and he'll be doing it blindfolded.
Similar thing on offense - he has to polish his jumper. Last night he had so many open looks in 12-18ft range...
In general, I hope DA will keep him and, of course, Sully as a young part of the core of the team.

AK

It’s clear that this team’s “progress” cannot be judged by conventional standards.  Progress for them will mean crawling before they can walk.  The older players are (maybe) just good enough to lose.  The younger guys are the team’s future, but measuring their progress will be like watching grass grow.  And the problems are magnified when they face a really good team.

Our poor Glimmer Thread is all but abandoned.  Each time a glimmer surfaces, a “but” seems to accompany it.  Sully’s game last night produced a bona fide glimmer, but he’s not a center—especially on the defensive end.  Bradley’s mid-range game has been a revelation, but should he be the team’s #1 gunner?

I have to quit now because I believe I detected slight motion in a blade of grass in the front yard.  I’ll record that in my diary and wait for the next one.  And the next.  And the next.  If that’s what it takes to be a Celtics fan at this time, that’s what I’m prepared to do.  I hope you’ll join me.  In the words of the immortal Axl Rose, "All we need is just a little patience." (Or a lot.)
(Or al
In the meantime, I’ll leave you with a little inspiration that I’ve heard is becoming the theme song for every Celtics player:

To win’s an impossible dream
And I hurt from my head to my toe
We’ll lose both tonight and tomorrow
We’ll run but we’ll be much too slow

Why did I swap my jock for a thong?
That’s my problem…it’s been killing my (fill in the blank)
Now I’m “free” to seek basketball greatness
I’ll reach the unreachable star.

This is my quest
I’ll be raising the bar
The door seemed to be closing
But now it’s ajar

Oh my lord what is this?
Please forget what I said
Now I find I’ve been traded away
I wish I could be dead!

And I know you’ll regret Mr. Ainge
This bad move all your life
Cause I saw you with Trixie last night
And I’m telling your wife

Will the team be much better for this
That one guy who left with a scar
Became, with his last ounce of courage
The league’s most admired All-Star?

Sam

sam wrote:It’s clear that this team’s “progress” cannot be judged by conventional standards.  Progress for them will mean crawling before they can walk.  The older players are (maybe) just good enough to lose.  The younger guys are the team’s future, but measuring their progress will be like watching grass grow.  And the problems are magnified when they face a really good team.

Our poor Glimmer Thread is all but abandoned.  Each time a glimmer surfaces, a “but” seems to accompany it.  Sully’s game last night produced a bona fide glimmer, but he’s not a center—especially on the defensive end.  Bradley’s mid-range game has been a revelation, but should he be the team’s #1 gunner?

I have to quit now because I believe I detected slight motion in a blade of grass in the front yard.  I’ll record that in my diary and wait for the next one.  And the next.  And the next.  If that’s what it takes to be a Celtics fan at this time, that’s what I’m prepared to do.  I hope you’ll join me.  In the words of the immortal Axl Rose, "All we need is just a little patience."  (Or a lot.)
 (Or al
In the meantime, I’ll leave you with a little inspiration that I’ve heard is becoming the theme song for every Celtics player:

To win’s an impossible dream
And I hurt from my head to my toe
We’ll lose both tonight and tomorrow
We’ll run but we’ll be much too slow

Why did I swap my jock for a thong?
That’s my problem…it’s been killing my (fill in the blank)
Now I’m “free” to seek basketball greatness
I’ll reach the unreachable star.

This is my quest
I’ll be raising the bar
The door seemed to be closing
But now it’s ajar

Oh my lord what is this?
Please forget what I said
Now I find I’ve been traded away
I wish I could be dead!

And I know you’ll regret Mr. Ainge
This bad move all your life
Cause I saw you with Trixie last night
And I’m telling your wife

Will the team be much better for this
That one guy who left with a scar
Became, with his last ounce of courage
The league’s most admired All-Star?

Sam

sam,

This was worth it just to hear you quote Axl...



bob


.

Sam  nice poem.

A  lot of talk about the Sully/Olynyk combination.  

I thought that Sully was really outstanding but I still think that he is carrying too much weight and he needs to build his stamina. His knees are not going to hold up with that much weight.  He tired and that prevented the tempo we needed.  Stevens would give him a blow and then come back with him.  He was great on the glass and his offense was really flowing.

KO remains somewhat of an enigma to me.  He is no center and it is also difficult to classify him as a Power Forward.  He is just a 7 foot basketball player.  But his lack of strength prevents him from going to the rim hard and he continues to struggle when he tries to rebound in traffic.  His defense overall is poor. He is slow laterally and has has almost zero shot blocking ability.  If there is a potential strength to his game it will be on offense.  But even his offense is indecisive at this point.  Brad has him playing the high post in the pick and role offense but he does not set solid picks so rarely are we seeing the ball handler drive to the basket.  Mostly we see a weak screen and a pop out where he gets the ball back from the guard for an open look but he is very indecisive in taking the shot.  He appears not ready to shoot the ball.  While it has only been 13 games his ,39% shooting  overall and .18% (4 for 22) from behind the arc must improve if he is going to be on the court this much.  

dboss

Dboss,

Thnanks. Actually, it wasn't meant to be a poem but, rather, a parody on the song, "The Impossible Dream." If you want to give me a call, I can hum it for you, but I recommend against it if you value your ear drums.

Sully and Olynyk are just the most obvious of many imperfect players on this team. The only one in whom I somehow have a reasonably high degree of confidence is Sully. But definitely not at all at the center position. However, I have even less confidence (which I know you share) in Olynyk at the center position.

It is unfortunate that, for the second consecutive season (and certainly more of a key to the future than last year's team), the unbalanced roster has put the team in the position of having to play too many players out of position. That's no way to develop players or even to get a read on how valuable each player can be. Personally, I don't believe it makes sense to see Sully sliding over to center on the multitudes of occasions when Brad is forced to go small. Certainly, it behooves every player to try as hard as possible to overcome weaknesses, but I think he should also have the consistent opportunity to leverage his strengths in order to develop a.s.a.p. as well as to maintain his confidence level. I would be just as happy to have Faverani, Collins, and some other semi-legitimate bohunk center using their 18 fouls as the center position while allowing their power forwards to hone their power forward skills. It's difficult to see how that would result in a poorer W/L record than they're now compiling.

Here's a question for you. Of the following three players—Sully, Olynyk and Bass), which two do you think should be identified as the best potential building blocks for this team? Yeah, yeah, I know all the qualifiers—IF this guy does this,IF that guy does that, blah blah blah. But, given whatever potential you see, if you could pick only two to keep and one to trade, who would the two be and who would the one be? I suspect it will come down to whether one prefers the skills Bass is now exhibiting versus the skills we HOPE Kelly can develop. Okay, then, would it be wiser to keep the know quantity represented by Bass along with Sully; or would it be wiser to keep the potential we think we see in Olynyk along with Sully? Which is the better bet?

Sam

Bob,

My wife and I disagree about Axl. I like him and think he has one of the best kick-ass bands in existence. She can't stand him. And she's the young one in the family.

Sam

One of our issues as I see them is that we have two young core players that essentially play the same position, PF.  Sully and Kelly play the same position.  

You could call this a wealth of riches.  You could call it "depth of position".  You could also call it a logjam waiting to happen.  There are 96 minutes available at the C and PF positions.  Assuming neither of these players are centers and therefore should be spending 90% of their time at PF, then we're talking about 2 players "fighting" over, let's call it, 55 minutes (48 minutes at PF and another 7 or so as quasi-center). Yes, I know that, on offense, Kelly is more of a "stretch 4" while Sully is more of a classic PF, but on the defensive end of the floor is where the value of that difference shrinks. Unless something changes (Kelly putting on 30#s and developing 'roid rage?) there will be a lot of scenarios where they won't be able to play with each other.

I bring this up in the context of Sam's question "who is the best building block?".  Well, as presented above it's not quite an either/or proposition, but there is some overlap/imbalance.


bob


.

Sam

I wish I was at the point where I could pick two keepers but I cannot do that yet.

Sully is a definite keeper right now and has the potential to be a very solid PF for us into the future.  He is stong on the glass and I can see his offense evolving.  He is no center but he has displayed the girth required to push bigger guys away from the basket.  I like that about him a lot.

Bass has pretty much reached his peak.  He can of course improve his ball handling and a few other things but Bass is nothing more or less than a solid rotation player.  He really is not a high end player at anything in particular.  I like him but he would be a trading chip in my opinion.

As far as Kelly is concerend I cannot determine yet how good he will be.  In all fairness to him he will need to develop strength to maintain his rebounding and defensive position in the post.  It takes a while for that to happen.  So he automatically gets a bye for a year.

It is still curious to me that DA drafted him and had visions of a stretch 4 when our # 1 need was a true 5.  

I do not see a longterm starting combo of Sully/Ko  because neither is a center and playing 2
4's together probably will not work overall the long haul,

The good thing is that there is plenty of time to sort things out.  Trades will be made, players will be drafted and the team will identify and stregthen areas where needed.

It's all good...Go Celts

dboss

There needs to be an immediate change of philosophy: "Run hard or collect splinters."

Boston playing a half court offense every time down the court is not going to cut it. Despite a much better game last night, Boston was beaten rather handily (attributed to fast break points, points in paint, and wide open shots for Spurs shooters).

Stevens should tell his guys to run hard for 5-7 minutes, then switch them out and repeat with the substituted players. Run hard, switch out. Repeat the process. Boston needs to maintain a constant and high level of intensity in order to win. There's just too many deficiencies on this team at the PG and C spot to actually attempt to play a conventional game.

The Spurs, unlike Houston, aren't a very athletic team. That's the main reason why Boston managed to keep it close for the most part, up until the fated 3rd quarter.

In the end, this team is going to be even more susceptible to problems rooted in match-ups. Portland, Houston, and Minnesota have the length and perimeter shooting ability to hurt Boston quite easily.

Boston matches up very well with San Antonio and Miami, however. Miami lacks the interior length and size and San Antonio's pragmatic offense allows Boston to somewhat play to their strengths.

Right now, Boston has 2 strengths they can use to beat other teams. The first is youth. They have plenty of guys that can get in and play hard. The second is having about 10 guys that can each get double-figures.

The past few games have been quite disastrous to varying degrees. The defense has been exploited, and the offense is stagnant. On defense, Boston has been giving up entirely too many easy shots inside and open shots from the perimeter. The offense looks abysmal. Guys are standing around, and if they happen to be actually moving, they aren't setting solid picks. They waste a lot of shot clock pounding the ball and become forced to take rushed shots.

Pressey and Crawford need to step up their game. This includes not turning the ball over, making smart passes, and not taking errant 3's. They also need to break down the defense. A great deal of the shots the C's take are contested. In other words, Boston's working wayy too hard on offense with little to show for it.

I know a lot of people have been dismissive of Green, but I think the problem resides a bit more with the offense than him. He's not getting consistent touches, and often times he's given the ball in a position where he can't exploit the defense. Green is most dangerous in the transition game, where he is basically unstoppable once he hits his stride.

Thus, Stevens needs to have these guys running all game long. If you're not running, sit on the bench.




KJ

As for the subject of starting 2 PFs, it sure didn't work for the Hawks.

Just sayin'.



KJ

k_j_88 wrote:There needs to be an immediate change of philosophy: "Run hard or collect splinters."

Boston playing a half court offense every time down the court is not going to cut it. Despite a much better game last night, Boston was beaten rather handily (attributed to fast break points, points in paint, and wide open shots for Spurs shooters).

Stevens should tell his guys to run hard for 5-7 minutes, then switch them out and repeat with the substituted players. Run hard, switch out. Repeat the process. Boston needs to maintain a constant and high level of intensity in order to win. There's just too many deficiencies on this team at the PG and C spot to actually attempt to play a conventional game.

The Spurs, unlike Houston, aren't a very athletic team. That's the main reason why Boston managed to keep it close for the most part, up until the fated 3rd quarter.

In the end, this team is going to be even more susceptible to problems rooted in match-ups. Portland, Houston, and Minnesota have the length and perimeter shooting ability to hurt Boston quite easily.

Boston matches up very well with San Antonio and Miami, however. Miami lacks the interior length and size and San Antonio's pragmatic offense allows Boston to somewhat play to their strengths.

Right now, Boston has 2 strengths they can use to beat other teams. The first is youth. They have plenty of guys that can get in and play hard. The second is having about 10 guys that can each get double-figures.

The past few games have been quite disastrous to varying degrees. The defense has been exploited, and the offense is stagnant. On defense, Boston has been giving up entirely too many easy shots inside and open shots from the perimeter. The offense looks abysmal. Guys are standing around, and if they happen to be actually moving, they aren't setting solid picks. They waste a lot of shot clock pounding the ball and become forced to take rushed shots.

Pressey and Crawford need to step up their game. This includes not turning the ball over, making smart passes, and not taking errant 3's. They also need to break down the defense. A great deal of the shots the C's take are contested. In other words, Boston's working wayy too hard on offense with little to show for it.

I know a lot of people have been dismissive of Green, but I think the problem resides a bit more with the offense than him. He's not getting consistent touches, and often times he's given the ball in a position where he can't exploit the defense. Green is most dangerous in the transition game, where he is basically unstoppable once he hits his stride.

Thus, Stevens needs to have these guys running all game long. If you're not running, sit on the bench.




KJ

k_j_88, we are so much on the same page!

Kj

there were a few times where our defense was looking like a trailer from a parting of the red seas. (Ten Commandments)  The Spurs were able to beat our bigs down the court and no one was willing to pick up the open guy.  Too many plays where the Spurs are shooting threes while our guys are running out at them.  

Too many plays on offense could not get past the foul line.  I think we are starting to see some flaws in the motion offense...When there is no motion, there is no offense.  lol

It seems the easiest thing for the Celtics to do given their limitations is to run.  Yet it is apparent that playing fast break basketball is not yet part of their DNA.  It is an acquired trait that must be embedded into the very fabric of the team.  

However, I take great amusement in the current state of affairs of those NY teams, the knicks and the nets.  There they are fighting like the gangs of newyork for control of the city.

You see all is not all that bad

dboss

KJ, Couldn't agree more. The games where they ran all night, they won. It's almost like after winning 4 straight that way, they took themselves too seriously, started to play half-court ball and stagnated. Hawk

Sam,

Good taste in music, Axl was a great singer.  And for your parody I wish Gomer Pyle could sing your version.  One of my all time favorite TV moments.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5KeGccP9Jk

Axl's a classic, but too bad there's no foreseeable resolution to the long feud with Slash.

DJ Ashba and Bumblefoot can play, but they just aren't Slash.

Bobc,

One of my favorite moments too. Jim Nabors has been amazing in numerous ways. He had a liver transplant in 1994 and is still going strong19 years later, even havting married in January of this year. He certainly outlived all other residents of Mayberry whom I'm aware of. His great voice belied the bumbler he always played. I actually like the song too and wasn't trying to make fun of it with my parody.

Hey, how's Brandon?

Sam

sam wrote:Bobc,

One of my favorite moments too.  Jim Nabors has been amazing in numerous ways.  He had a liver transplant in 1994 and is still going strong19 years later, even havting married in January of this year.  He certainly outlived all other residents of Mayberry whom I'm aware of.  His great voice belied the bumbler he always played.  I actually like the song too and wasn't trying to make fun of it with my parody.

Hey, how's Brandon?

Sam

sam,

Ron Howard (Opie) is still doing fine.


bob

sam wrote:Bobc,

One of my favorite moments too.  Jim Nabors has been amazing in numerous ways.  He had a liver transplant in 1994 and is still going strong19 years later, even havting married in January of this year.  He certainly outlived all other residents of Mayberry whom I'm aware of.  His great voice belied the bumbler he always played.  I actually like the song too and wasn't trying to make fun of it with my parody.

Hey, how's Brandon?

Sam

Hi Sam,

Been pretty difficult for both of us since I moved back to Newton as we were very close. All these modern social media avenues are good though as we can easily stay in touch through Facebook, FaceTime and texting, and I even pick the phone up and call him once in a while. I think kids his age think of the phone though as we do 8 track tapes......

He is really becoming a good basketball player and I will make sure my visits back to the Berkshires coincide with his games. The big question now that he is in 7th grade, and has a girlfriend, is to see if he still dedicates as much time to the game as he has the last few years? He is a good kid and always was thrilled with any interactions he had with the kind people on this Forum.