POST GAME - LA LAKERS - HOME

mrkleen09 wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:so who would you rather have if your a GM as your starting 5, Perk or Raef?

Raef is a bad example. He never was a center in my eyes, a PF and not very good.  So I wouldnt want him on any team that I was a GM for.

As for Perk, I think it depends on who is in the rest of the starting 5.  If I had enough talent that I could basically not worry about points from my Center, then Perk is great.  If I need scoring from the C, then no - Perkins would not be on my list.

Perk on a poor team = what we saw in Boston from 2003 to 2007 = a lot of toughness and not much else.  Perk playing a minor role on a talented team = a good fit.

agree with all your points, my point was obviously about the stats and toughness, how stats don't always reflect true importance on a team sport, no way could Raef help that 08 team as much as Perk did....except one, Perk is not playing a minor role on a talented.....his role is more than that even now on current team. I think he was as important to that 08 team as Silas was for the 74-76 C's teams even though his stats won't bear that out. Even Ainge noted how when Perk left notice how many more players got in KG's face, felt they could go after him with borderline dirty play? Thunder know when they have to face the best low post bigs they have that luxury of Perk.

bob, while the Celts had problems with Gasol in the in the first half, Gasol was limited a bit in the second half. Once Olynyk got on him, it seemed like Gasol had a tough time getting the ball and when he did, he had trouble scoring on Olynyk's height and placement.

KyleCleric wrote:bob, while the Celts had problems with Gasol in the in the first half, Gasol was limited a bit in the second half. Once Olynyk got on him, it seemed like Gasol had a tough time getting the ball and when he did, he had trouble scoring on Olynyk's height and placement.

kyle,

I agree. I should have given Kelly more credit for guarding Gasol effectively than I did. He was quite active, moving around Gasol to make it harder to get the ball to him.


bob


.

good points kyle and pitbull, I didn't notice Kellys improved defense, I did notice Gasol had too much experience and height for Sully to lay a body on him effectively to defend him.

I see no good reason to even discuss Perk.. As most of you know I loved his game despite the limitations.

I think both Green and Bradley can be 18 ppg players.

In all fairness, lets see how things go over the next 5 to 10 games. You see, I believe that Rajon is a transformative player and will make everyone better.

I also think that Jeff has more pressure on him than any other player and that it has some impact. I believe Jeff should ignore negative things from the dark energy and just focus on playing to his best abilities.

Dboss

dboss wrote:I see no good reason to even discuss Perk.. As most of you know I loved his game despite the limitations.

I think both Green and Bradley can be 18 ppg players.

In all fairness, lets see how things go over the next 5 to 10 games.  You see, I believe that Rajon is a transformative player and will make everyone better.

I also think that Jeff has more pressure on him than any other player and that it has some impact.  I believe Jeff should ignore negative things from the dark energy and just focus on playing to his best abilities.

Dboss

dboss,

I agree, we should remember Perk fondly, but move on.  

I agree, both Green and Bradley can be 18ppg scorers (especially Green) but will they?  At this point, it's looking better for Bradley than Green because Bradley clearly has ganas and Green doesn't.

I agree, let's see what happens as Rondo's conditioning improves and he is able to make a greater impact on the above two players' games.

I agree, Jeff has to ignore everything that might undermine his game.  This is the same thing that has been told to him by Doc, Brad, Rondo, KG and Pierce for a couple of years, nothing different now (for all we know Durant and Westbrook were telling him that too).  His problem is that he hears the words, he says the right things in response, but he doesn't commit wholly to making the transformative change that will make him that player consistently.  He lacks fire in the belly to pay the price to become that player, he lacks ganas.  How do you teach that? Bradley worked his butt off this summer to improve himself and we see it every single game. Did he do it for the contract? Maybe, maybe not, but he did it.

The trade deadline is 33 days from now.  Danny doesn't need to make these decisions by then but that's when the buyers/sellers will be more motivated, providing us with better deals.


bob


.

[quote="bobheckler"]

dboss wrote:I see no good reason to even discuss Perk.. As most of you know I loved his game despite the limitations.

I think both Green and Bradley can be 18 ppg players.

In all fairness, lets see how things go over the next 5 to 10 games.  You see, I believe that Rajon is a transformative player and will make everyone better.

I also think that Jeff has more pressure on him than any other player and that it has some impact.  I believe Jeff should ignore negative things from the dark energy and just focus on playing to his best abilities.

Dboss

dboss,

I agree, we should remember Perk fondly, but move on.  

I agree, both Green and Bradley can be 18ppg scorers (especially Green) but will they?  At this point, it's looking better for Bradley than Green because Bradley clearly has ganas and Green doesn't.

I agree, let's see what happens as Rondo's conditioning improves and he is able to make a greater impact on the above two players' games.

I agree, Jeff has to ignore everything that might undermine his game.  This is the same thing that has been told to him by Doc, Brad, Rondo, KG and Pierce for a couple of years, nothing different now (for all we know Durant and Westbrook were telling him that too).  His problem is that he hears the words, he says the right things in response, but he doesn't commit wholly to making the transformative change that will make him that player consistently.  He lacks fire in the belly to pay the price to become that player, he lacks ganas.  How do you teach that? Bradley worked his butt off this summer to improve himself and we see it every single game. Did he do it for the contract? Maybe, maybe not, but he did it.

The trade deadline is 33 days from now.  Danny doesn't need to make these decisions by then but that's when the buyers/sellers will be more motivated, providing us with better deals.


bob

I guess we will see.

I am not ready to give up on Green just yet.

He has a chance to be set up for his opportunities. Let us see if that makes a diiference. I however do not think that he plays with the intensity that the team needs all the time but I sense a passion in him..allbeit, a quite one.


dboss

I noticed a few very interesting things from the game.

But before I start with my observations, I'd like to start off by saying that the guy in that booth with Kyle Draper (I don't know his name) is a complete jackass. He actually had the nerve to say it was a bad loss when it truly wasn't. He went on insulting the team when in reality everyone played hard and the game literally came down to the final possession.

He sounds like a typical ESPN hack with no business being on TV in the first place. I hope they replace him soon with someone more intelligent.

Anyway... Onto the important stuff.


1. He's back.

If there is any doubt that Rondo is the leader, I think its been dispelled. I saw the way his teammates reacted to his return. Everyone played with greater intensity and basically outplayed the Lakers throughout the game. They really see Rondo as the leader and it made for a very entertaining game. They all seemed to feed off of his return.

2. Pressey-Olynyk Connection.

The two rookies were working quite well together, and simultaneously had career-best games. Pressey was throwing precise bullet passes and racking up the assists while Olynyk was an offensive machine that played solid defense and was aggressive all night.

Statlines for both players:

Pressey: 6 pts, 9 ast, 2 stl, 0 TOs.

Kelly: 25 pts on 11-17 FG, 5 reb, 7 ast, 2 stl, 1 blk.

There were times when it was just them two handling the ball and working the possession into points.

3. Crash

Wallace played one of his better games this year, logging 14 pts, 4 reb, 5 ast, 3 stl, 2 blk.

----

I know that Jeff Green has been the topic of discussions regarding his scoring ability. Well, while he didn't exactly have a monster offensive performance he was doing a lot of other things (9 reb, 2 blk, 2 ast, 1 stl).

Last night, I thought he played well. He didn't have a great shooting night, but he was starting to get some better looks than in nights past. In due time, his scoring will tick back up. He may not be scoring 20 points every night, but he is doing other things that are very helpful to the team. As I mentioned before, he pulled in 9 reb, nearly logging a double-double for the night.



KJ

And as far as Rondo's lack of explosiveness, there's two factors:

1. He's getting his wind back

-and-

2. He's wearing a knee brace.


Rondo is limited in his lateral movements by design. They can't take the training wheels off too soon or they could be looking at a Derrick Rose fiasco.

I have no problem with Rondo being on the 5 minute plan.



KJ

Cow,

So you say Perk had 12 points last night and concurrently claim that stats are for losers. Are those two statements as consistent as Perk is nowadays or do you consider yourself a loser?

As you know, I'm a professional statistician, and I use basketball statistics (correctly) to make points but prefer to use my basketball observation and intuition over stats. So am I a loser?

You may want to avoid making sweeping statements that could come back to haunt you.

Sam

Bob made a comment that I think is very relevant to what happened.

Vitor did not play. I also mentioned that Humphries did not play.

Our interior defense was anchored by little man (Bass) and fat boy (Sully)

Gasol feasted on them.

I think coach Stevens should have used Hump/Vitor to pound on Gasol at every opportunity. Use the fouls to make his life miserable. Make him only think about the next foul.

Just a thought

dboss

Sam

Obviously I was discussing one facet of basketball, everyone seems to agree we need a defensive center to anchor the defense and let Sully flourish as a PF, my point was all about stats don't mean squat for certain intangible factors in team sports.....that has nothing to do for an advertising beer or car ad, little sensitive today my friend? and I agree if we got that piece a 5 to impact the defense, there are plenty of wings we could acquire later by way of draft, trade or FA signing.

cow

dboss wrote:Bob made a comment that I think is very relevant to what happened.

Vitor did not play.  I also mentioned that Humphries did not play.

Our interior defense was anchored by little man (Bass) and fat boy (Sully)

Gasol feasted on them.

I think coach Stevens should have used Hump/Vitor to pound on Gasol at every opportunity.  Use the fouls to make his life miserable.  Make him only think about the next foul.

Just a thought

dboss

dboss,

Little man and fat boy?

Maybe Brad was hoping they'd be able to nuke Gasol?


bob


.

Sam

Red even used that quote in Steve's interview, stats are for losers. I agree with Red, that the way I'm built.

cow

bobheckler wrote:

dboss wrote:Bob made a comment that I think is very relevant to what happened.

Vitor did not play.  I also mentioned that Humphries did not play.

Our interior defense was anchored by little man (Bass) and fat boy (Sully)

Gasol feasted on them.

I think coach Stevens should have used Hump/Vitor to pound on Gasol at every opportunity.  Use the fouls to make his life miserable.  Make him only think about the next foul.

Just a thought

dboss

dboss,

Little man and fat boy?

Maybe Brad was hoping they'd be able to nuke Gasol?


bob


.

Scratching my head a bit...seems when a player is to big (fat) many of us say he needs to loose weight......then a player like KO that can't muscle inside needs to put on weight (KO)

Back when I was in college watched Jabbar play.......he looked skinny as a rail to me, then I had the opportunity to actually stand in a looker room in Buffalo quite close to him............he was anything but.

Sully needs his bulk just like KO needs his quickness, sure he could use some more muscle perhaps but the 6" between the ears can make up for a lot of physical things that may be lacking.

beat

Beat

My little man and fat boy reference was meant in jest.

Where you not amused?

Dboss

I thought about this reference and realized that it is very inappropriate.

There is NO relationship between any Celtics player and the sheer brutality of total war.

I sincerely apologize to all of my board members for this reference as it was insensitive and thoughtless.

dboss

Cow, just out of curiosity, what do "advertising beer and car ad" have to do with basketball stats?

Sam

dboss,

Personally, I got a smile out of that reference. That kind of thing is right up my alley, and I'd hate to think that you'd censor yourself and deprive me of future smiles. It was an innocuous comment, and I thoroughly enjoyed it.