Celtics Stymied By Lack Of A True Center

by **bobheckler** Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:57 pm

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2014/03/16/celtics-stymied-lack-true-center/TxHhKDlyFC8AUzuDhcDViL/story.html

Celtics stymied by lack of true center

By Gary Washburn | GLOBE STAFF MARCH 16, 2014

Celtics Stymied By Lack Of A True Center Chin031414celticsuns_spt9

Celtics Stymied By Lack Of A True Center Chin031414celticsuns_spt9

Jeff Green and Jared Sullinger battled Phoenix center Alex Len in Friday’s loss.
BARRY CHIN/GLOBE STAFF

With 8:53 left in the fourth quarter Friday, Miles Plumlee left the Suns’ game against the Celtics after being poked in the eye by Kelly Olynyk. The 6-foot-11-inch Plumlee was replaced by 7-1 rookie Alex Len, who picked up 6 points, 3 rebounds, and 1 blocked shot in finishing out the Suns’ 87-80 win.

The Celtics didn’t have anyone to compete with Len, who altered shots, picked up a key putback basket and free throw, and provided a large disruption to the Boston pick-and-roll offense. Having a rim-protecting big man is something the Celtics have lacked for years.

Kevin Garnett played out of position at center. Kendrick Perkins was always undersized and more enforcer than shot blocker while Jermaine O’Neal and Shaquille O’Neal were too old or too injured to provide adequate relief in the middle.

This season the Celtics have lacked a true center. Kris Humphries is a power forward playing center, same with Jared Sullinger. Olynyk has the height of a center but is more of a stretch power forward. Vitor Faverani has true center size but needs development and to get into premium shape to approach being a factor.

Hence the Celtics’ struggles with bigger teams and teams with legitimate impact centers. As the organization begins to transform back to a contender in the coming years, perhaps the team’s No. 1 priority is acquiring a rim protector, a shot-blocking defensive-minded center who can help the Celtics’ defense.

While Len is a rookie and has played just 31 games this season, his length was satisfactory enough to be a major influence.

“Well you know I’ve never had it, but I think it obviously plays a critical role in defending the paint in this league,” Celtics coach Brad Stevens said. “I thought we defended extremely well but we got caught on a switch at the end of the game, which is what we didn’t want to do and as a result they made us pay by [Len] tipping the ball in. Seven-footers can have a big impact on the game in that way and Plumlee is a tough guy to guard because he rolls down the lane so hard. I thought Len gave them good minutes, too.”

Stevens acknowledged he didn’t have that type of center even in his six seasons at Butler. But the Celtics have played all season without a shot-blocking threat or shot-altering big man who can even intimidate opponents.

Said Stevens: “Obviously it’s something that we’ve talked that in an ideal world you have somebody protecting the paint.”

With two first-round picks and salary cap space, the Celtics could make center a main priority. What’s more, a defensive-minded 7-footer could immediately make the Celtics a better defensive team and expedite their rebuilding process.

The Celtics are ninth in the league in points allowed but 21st in rebounding while big men such as Portland’s Robin Lopez, Brooklyn’s Brook Lopez, Indiana’s Andrew Bynum, Houston’s Dwight Howard, and Detroit’s Andre Drummond have dominated the paint in matchups with Boston.

“I haven’t thought a ton about it,” Stevens said. “I think certainly in an ideal situation what you’re looking for is certain qualities of a team and I think that a rim protector, whether it is a seven-footer or not is extremely important in this league, a guy that really protects the paint, dotted line and in.”

Humphries has taken a beating this season serving as the Celtics’ center, although he is just 6-9. Defensively he is trying to check bigger men and offensively, he, like Sullinger, is constantly getting blocked in the paint.

“Well part of the time, it’s a little tougher to rebound sometimes,” Humphries said. “Because if you have a true center and you’ve got to go take him out of the glass, a lot of times you’re taking yourself out of the play.”

When asked if this season he has spent the most time defending centers, he said: “Probably. It’s an adjustment definitely but if I gotta guard them, then they gotta guard me, so I’m able to get some stuff offensively a little bit easier with a five guy guarding you.”

Humphries played the past 3½ years with Brook Lopez, one of the league’s more versatile centers, allowing Humphries to thrive at his natural position.

“Well if you have a true center, he’s banging with the other center and I can run in there and get the rebound and there’s less attention,” he said.

“You have a little more freedom around the basket. The situation [here] is what it is. We’re going to try to finish the year strong. Hopefully people will keep supporting us and coming to these games. I don’t know, I don’t have a lot [more to say].”

bob
MY NOTE: I talked about Alex Len in the Phoenix Post-Game thread. Their back up center, a rookie, was better suited for his role than anybody on our roster. While I'm a big fan of Danny's, I think he might have fallen a little too hard for the fool's gold of the Miami Heat roster. They have the best player on the planet (and a few other pretty damn good ones too) and have been able to get away with not having a true center on the roster. Jeff Green was intended to be our counter to LBJ. Fine, it's important to match up, but you can't "out-king" the king. You have minimize your weakness against him and then beat them by taking advantage of their weaknesses. In other words, beat them inside because they have no inside game. Yes, it is true there aren't many true centers in the league now, but scarcity doesn't diminish the value of having one. Getting a center, an honest-to-God bonafide center and not a "stretch 4" or a PF/C, is Job 1 for Danny this off-season bar none.

.

by **kdp59** Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:46 am

I think most Celtics fans agree that Center and a go-to scorer are the top needs for this team.

However, getting that center might be very hard this off-season.

draft?
Embiid....might need the #1 pick over all or at least top 3. even then he won't be ready for a year or two.

Free agents?
Hawes
Kaman
Monroe-R

Neither one is a defensive oriented player nor a rim protector.

Bynum
Oden

injuries and/or desire has taken its toll on both

Stiemsma

yes I put his name here, defensive minded and can block shots. But limited over all and not a true NBA starter. Might be an option in this market though.

Gortat

as I have said before, seems to be the best option, though at 29YO a bit old.

Trades:

Saunders?

Asik?

has any other Centers been rumored to be available through trades?

the cupboard might not be bare, but it isn't over flowing either.

MY personal preference in this order:

1. Asik- Trade
2. Gortat- FA $8M or less /3 year deal
3. Stiemsma- $4M or less/ 3 year deal.

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:29 am

This draft after Embiid is weak too, its all a crapshoot....we may not get a legit center for a few more years.

by **kdp59** Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:53 am

after seeing how BIG Anthony Davis is, after 2 years in the NBA I am rethinking Vonleh in this draft.

he's only 19YO now and has the long wingspan needed. He should fill out at about 6-11, 250 after a few years in the NBA, which with his wingspan is nice size for an NBA center.

I am not saying he's a good as Davis is or looks like he he'll become. But he might be an option in a few years as a solid NBA center.

with all that in mind, my mind wonderings on this off-season:

1) trade Bass and a future first (maybe a second one) for Asik. (Houston now knows they aren't getting a star back and the ownership will want to dump his $15M salary, I think)

draft:

#5 - N. Vonleh
#17- James Young

Resign:
Bradley at $7/year (or less)
Bayless at $3M/year

Roster for year two of the rebuild:

Asik
Fav
Vonleh
Sully
KO
Anthony
Green
Wallace
C. Johnson
Bradley
Young
Rondo
Bayless
Pressey

playoff team in the east next year.

Salary and cap at about $67M next season.

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:04 am

We need Asik, he played well last night with no Dwight, Asik is always consistent whenever he gets the minutes. Gut can defend and board in his sleep.

by **bobheckler** Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:08 am

kdp59 wrote:I think most Celtics fans agree that Center and a go-to scorer are the top needs for this team.

However, getting that center might be very hard this off-season.

draft?
Embiid....might need the #1 pick over all or at least top 3. even then he won't be ready for a year or two.

Free agents?
Hawes
Kaman
Monroe-R

Neither one is a defensive oriented player nor a rim protector.

Bynum
Oden

injuries and/or desire has taken its toll on both

Stiemsma

yes I put his name here, defensive minded and can block shots. But limited over all and not a true NBA starter. Might be an option in this market though.

Gortat

as I have said before, seems to be the best option, though at 29YO a bit old.

Trades:

Saunders?

Asik?

has any other Centers been rumored to be available through trades?

the cupboard might not be bare, but it isn't over flowing either.

MY personal preference in this order:

1. Asik- Trade
2. Gortat- FA $8M or less /3 year deal
3. Stiemsma- $4M or less/ 3 year deal.

kdp,

I'm not as big a fan of Asik as some on this board, like Sam, but at this point I'm so desperate for a rim protector so that players can start playing their real positions, I'd be thrilled with Asik. He'll be expensive but I think less so than before because:
1. Everybody knows Morey didn't and won't get his asking price and
2. Asik's heading into his final contract year. If they don't trade him they'll get nothing for him and something is better than nothing.

Larry Sanders just signed a new 4 year contract at $11M/year. He's an admirable shot blocker, but he is only 235#. His blocks/36mpg are much better than Asik's (3.5 vs 1.6 career, Asik is only 1.2/36 this year in Houston) but his fg% is worse. $11M is a lot of money in today's CBA.

I've always liked Gortat and was not happy when he became available and Danny didn't make a play for him. Of course, maybe nobody knew about it until it was too late, like the Pau Gasol-to-LA trade went down. He makes $7.7M now, so he might take $8M. I'd do that deal.

Steamer is a backup center, not a center. We could use a backup center, even if Vitor turns into something, since that would let Kelly play 4 almost exclusively but that still leaves us with the need for a starting center. The good news here is that Steamer's only making $2.7M in Nawlins, so we wouldn't need to offer $4M. I don't know what the press and coaches are saying about him in Nawlins, but if you read the 'Comments From The Other Side' for the Pelicans game last week you can get an idea what some of the fans think of him. As I said though he's a back up center, not a starter. He would, however, fill the role of letting other players play their more natural positions more.

I love Greg Monroe, but you are right about his defensive prowess. Kaman is better, but he's older and took a HUGE paycut to stay in LA. Hawes is a terrible defender.

In the end, Cowens may have got it right. The draft is a crap shoot and we might not get a real center for a couple of years.

bob

.

by **worcester** Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:04 pm

Funny how some teams happen to have a blind spot when drafting. The Patriots rarely seem to draft well when it comes to wide receivers. The Celtics have missed out on lots of decent centers, Asik, Plumlee, and DeAndre Jordan among them. Let's hope Danny fine tunes his center radar this go round.

by **NYCelt** Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:37 pm

I'd rather attempt to draft a center. I'm not crazy about what it would take to get an Asik or Gortat and am not wild about either one for a host of reasons.

I'm not crazy about taking freshmen either, but there might be no choice. If we can find a sophomore center or better, I'd go that way with the hope they could develop faster.

Also; rebuilding takes time. We're far better off waiting on a center and getting a good young scoring threat through this years draft. There are enough NBA quality wings in this draft that we should be able to pick up a high potential G/SF and see who's on the board at C later. Another wing to combine with Green could pay big dividends for a long time.

If we have to go into next season without a true or developed center it's an understandable part of where we are in the process of building the roster.

Patience grasshoppers. Patience.

by **k_j_88** Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:04 pm

Drafting and grooming a young center is best, I think. You can build a true anchor for the next ten years if done so properly.

The Celtics organization will need to commit a great deal of due diligence to scouting this draft. There exists a possibility to fill multiple needs and it'd be unfortunate to waste such an opportunity.

KJ

by **NYCelt** Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:11 pm

k_j_88 wrote:Drafting and grooming a young center is best, I think. You can build a true anchor for the next ten years if done so properly.

The Celtics organization will need to commit a great deal of due diligence to scouting this draft. There exists a possibility to fill multiple needs and it'd be unfortunate to waste such an opportunity.

KJ

+1...

didn't we once do that with some guy who ended up wearing number 6?

by **beat** Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:09 pm

NYCelt wrote:
k_j_88 wrote:Drafting and grooming a young center is best, I think. You can build a true anchor for the next ten years if done so properly.

The Celtics organization will need to commit a great deal of due diligence to scouting this draft. There exists a possibility to fill multiple needs and it'd be unfortunate to waste such an opportunity.

KJ

Time are a WHOLE lot different. We had to jump thru a bunch of hoops PLUS we TRADED a quality center for the rights to draft Russ. Apple and Oranges

beat

+1...

didn't we once do that with some guy who ended up wearing number 6?

by **beat** Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:12 pm

NYCelt wrote:
k_j_88 wrote:Drafting and grooming a young center is best, I think. You can build a true anchor for the next ten years if done so properly.

The Celtics organization will need to commit a great deal of due diligence to scouting this draft. There exists a possibility to fill multiple needs and it'd be unfortunate to waste such an opportunity.

KJ

+1...

didn't we once do that with some guy who ended up wearing number 6?

Times are a WHOLE lot different. We had to jump thru a bunch of hoops PLUS we TRADED a quality center for the rights to draft Russ. Apple and Oranges

beat

by **k_j_88** Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:19 pm

beat,

Well, no one is saying the Celtics' next center is the second coming of Bill Russell. But the fact remains that this draft has great potential. Look at Indiana. They were patient with developing Hibbert for several years. He used to be ineffective and now he's one of the most imposing forces in the NBA. Having a guy like that on your team changes everything, both on offense and defense.

Ainge needs a center. Now. I'd never bank on the Miami formula.

KJ

by **beat** Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:14 pm

k_j_88 wrote:beat,

Well, no one is saying the Celtics' next center is the second coming of Bill Russell. But the fact remains that this draft has great potential. Look at Indiana. They were patient with developing Hibbert for several years. He used to be ineffective and now he's one of the most imposing forces in the NBA. Having a guy like that on your team changes everything, both on offense and defense.

Ainge needs a center. Now. I'd never bank on the Miami formula.

KJ

Well KJ you sure inferred it. C's gave up an awful lot to get the rights to Russ. Anyway there are no Hibberts in the upcoming draft, nothing even close, we drafted a center 2 years ago Fab Melo and where did that get us? Believe he's flipping burgers somewhere now. A package deal for a proven one is OK by me as long as we don't give up the farm, otherwise draft the best players out there regardless of position and invite every long 7 footer to camp. Maybe go with a center if there is something out there worth the risk on our second pick but that too would be a long shot.

beat

by **Sam** Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:18 am

To express my own opinion rather than to have it expressed for me, I'm no particular "fan" of Asik. I'm a "fan" of any legitimate, healthy rim defender and rebounder who can better balance the roster on this team, thus making it easier for a rebuilding team to develop without its members having to play out of position and, hopefully, to begin forming a core that is effective playing together and offers prospects of becoming more effective sooner rather than later.

Around the trading deadline, Asik seemed to be available; and, based on what I had heard about his strengths, he became the target du jour for me. He didn't become a Celtic, so he goes back into the mix of possibilities as far as I'm concerned.

In general, I'd rather see a center acquired by trade than by draft (with Embiid a possible—but not definite—exception). I see free agency as risking the acquisition of damaged goods and/or complicating the cap situation. I like the idea of acquiring an NBA battle-tested center so we know in advance what we're getting. I know a lot of people look at draft possibilities and consider the matter of developing a young center in a vacuum. But I believe the point guard and center positions are the two most important elements in developing a core going forward. That's why I'd prefer both positions to be filled a.s.a.p. with experience so as to form what I call an experienced "womb" within which the development process of the team can proceed apace.

Moreover, I don't necessarily describe to the theory that rebuilding must take time. I believe a lot depends on how and when various assets are used to best advantage. I think the Celtics have a flexible and reasonably appealing mix of assets that could be used by an opportunistic Danny Ainge to expedite the process.

As for the center position, I'm a fervent "fan" of whatever big can provide sustained rim protection and rebounding as quickly as possible and is a legitimate center—not a converted power forward or a project.

Sam

by **kdp59** Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:39 am

I like the kid from Purdue also. for some reason he reminds me of the Chief ( wishful thinking I guess).

he has the size right now, though I don't know if he'll ever be anything more than a NBA back up.

looks like a second round pick if he comes out (will be 22 I think), though 7 footers usually go higher than they should (cough-MELO-cough).

I would still go Vonleh and develop him at his age, good upside there

by **cowens/oldschool** Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:25 am

kdp59 I saw the last Purdue vs Indiana game and Hammonds towered over Vonleh, the few times he was able to get the ball, Hammonds powered over Vonleh with ease, then since Purdue had a big lead they didn't go back to that. I've read Purdue doesn't have a good enough system or ballhandlers/passers to get AJ the ball. Vonleh is strictly a PF, kid is no more than 6'9".

by **NYCelt** Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:45 pm

Not a lot of time to post today, but a lot of interesting posts including from Sam, Beat, kdp and Cow.

Addressing parts of those and none in particular...

Each year is different as is each era, and there is no set rule that we can say will work in rebuilding the team this time around. Trades and signings are certainly possible. We don't have much in the way of players that anyone would want but we do have draft picks to trade. In another year we'll also have money to spend.

If we had players of value, I think we could do an instant turnaround as in '07. This time, I think a combination of smart drafting and signing, and especially patience, will be the keys. I think we're looking more like the path taken by Indiana, Chicago or OKC being our route.

We'll almost certainly have a shot at drafting a shooter with the potential to be a volume scoring force. A good addition to Team Rondo. With a good draft pick we could end up having the point, 2-guard and small forward spots nailed down. A power forward or center that will develop over a year or two is not a stretch by draft or trade this year, with the remaining spot to be filled by draft or signing next year. I think Green may be a part of the future; he's done much more than he's generally given credit for. If not he's a decent trading chip. Sully, Olynyk and Bradley are at the very least going to be solid depth, and may also become part of a swap meet package as their value grows. Not bad for year one. Next year may look similar in terms of record, but I'll venture a guess that there will be an emerging picture of what the next playoff roster might include.

I'm not sold that the next version of Playoff Celtics will have to look a certain way, however, in order to compete. Small(er) ball, could happen.

by **hawksnestbeach** Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:01 pm

NY Celt, I agree completely when you say: "Patience grasshoppers. Patience." We're only three quarters of the way through our first rebuilding season and already we have a very good, young coach, players who still compete even when the season is lost, considerable talent in Rondo, Green, Bradley, tantalizing young players in KO and Sully, and we appear to be heading into the draft with our share of chances for an excellent pick or two.
I know we need a center, but I don't think the team is desperate. It could be argued that acquiring a center this year would have helped us by, say, 10 games, hurting our chances for drafting a franchise cornerstone. As for drafting a center, that would be nice, but I hope we go for the best available player, regardless of position. When Oden and Durant were available, I would have opted for Oden, and I would have been wrong. Sam Bowie or Michael Jordan? Once again, length would have been the wrong yardstick for measuring that draft pick. On the Jordan tangent, the Bulls never built around Luc Longley and if we wind up with Wiggins or Parker (hope springs eternal), we may not need to, either. I think the 80's Bulls are interesting in that after acquiring Jordan, they acquired Pippen (giving up the taller Olden Polynice in return).
Every team has its own unique build, and IMO, the more talent we acquire, the easier it will be to trade our way to a winning combination. Hawk

by **Sam** Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:53 pm

My reason for wanting an experienced defensive center a.s.a.p. is NOT necessarily to win more games (although I'd be happy if that were a side benefit). My reason is so the OTHER players on the team can develop within the context of a more realistically balanced roster and without having to play out of position.

• I don't really want Kelly Olynyk to play some center; I'm quite certain his future is not at center, so why compromise his development by making him struggle in the center position?

• I want Sully to be able to learn what it's like to feast on PFs who are more his size than on even a few taller, rugged centers because I think that's where his future lies.

• I want both Sully and Kelly to learn how to work in tandem with a legitimate center; and, as far as I'm concerned, it'll slow the learning process dramatically is that center is also having to develop at the same time.

• If the Celtics go small, I want it to be an elective strategy to gain a matchup advantage, not a default born of necessity.

It's all about development; and there are certain requirements without which development can occur only slowly, if at all. And the failure to fulfill those requirements doesn't just mean the players will develop more slowly. They could easily be learning habits that actually run counter to their eventual development in a positive direction.

am

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