5 Good Reasons To Have Joel Anthony Around

http://www.celticsblog.com/2014/9/8/6120745/5-good-reasons-to-have-joel-anthony-around-this-year




5 good reasons to have Joel Anthony around this year
By Jeff Clark  @celticsblog on Sep 8 2014, 6:28a 10




Bob DeChiara-USA TODAY Sports
No really. He's awesome.



When Joel Anthony picked up his player option of $3.8M this season, nobody should have been shocked. He wasn't going to get that kind of contract on the open market, even as a defensive center that could probably help a few contending teams.  If he had opted out it would have freed up that cap room and maybe given the Celtics a little more wiggle room to add someone else under the luxury tax, but I'm not entirely sure that would have made much of an impact right away.

So we're kicking off our daily Countdown to Camp articles with some reasons why having Joel Anthony around isn't such a bad thing.

1. Defense: On a team that suffered from a serious lack of interior defense last year, a defensive big man is a nice option to have on the bench.

Joel Anthony Giving His All To Celtics While Former Heat Squad Preps For Playoffs | Boston Celtics | NESN.com

"I like Joel’s energy," Celtics coach Brad Stevens said. "I like what he brings to the table. He’s got great discipline in his screening, he’s a good one-on-one post defender and I think he can give us our best opportunity at a rim presence defensively."

2. Championship experience: Unless I'm forgetting someone, Anthony is the only player on the roster that has two Championship rings.  He knows first hand what it took to climb that mountain, not once, but twice.  He even started in 51 games during that first title run.

Miami Heat trade Joel Anthony to Celtics, acquire Toney Douglas from Warriors - Sun Sentinel

He was the longest-tenured current Heat player other than Dwyane Wade and Udonis Haslem, playing 6 1/2  seasons in Miami. He appeared in 382 career games (110 starts) and averaged 2.4 points, 3.1 rebounds and 1.27 blocks while shooting 50.8 percent from the field.

3. Respected nice guy: You won't find many people that don't enjoy the company of Anthony.  He's not going to make waves (though to be fair, I thought the same of Keith Bogans last year) and he seems to understand his place in this basketball universe very well.

Anthony, Johnson quietly join C's - Boston Celtics Blog - ESPN Boston

"I understand the business of how things work," said Anthony, a soft-spoken Montreal native, who took an open locker spot next to fellow Canadian Kelly Olynyk. "Obviously, you want to be able to stay for all that, but it's time to move on. Fortunately, I'm in a position where I'm going somewhere there's another opportunity for me. So I'm just looking to take advantage of that and continue on with my career."

4. Age: He's 32 years old.  Because someone has to be the old guy that tells funny stories about when Shaq was still in the league.  Gerald Wallace can't do it all by himself.

5. Expiring contract: Saved the best for last.  Would it have been better to have his money off the books right away?  Probably.  But Ainge made the trade last year knowing fully well that he'd pick up that option so none of this is a surprise.  Right now, timing is more important than anything.  Anthony's contract expires at the same time as several other contracts on the Celtics.  That's good for next year's salary cap room and it is good for using potentially at the trade deadline.

So believe it or not, having Joel Anthony around is a good thing.




bob
MY NOTE:  All the career minutes played at center by all the other players on the roster combined don't add up to as many as Joel Anthony's.  Add up all the championship rings owned by all the other players on the roster combined and you wouldn't have as many as Joel Anthony.  Is he part of our longterm future?  No, but he could be a very valuable part of our present because he is one of the only players on the team that has actually "been there, done that" longer than a brief blooding and he did it despite, not because, he has the body for it.

If Brad and Danny are serious about Kelly being a 4 in this league, with Sully slimming down to play 4 and with Vitor admitting he's only going to be 90% when he comes back, then I think we're going to see more of Joel Anthony than many on this board think because he's our only back up center at 100%.



.

should be 6 reason.....

6 fouls to use

beat

Bob,

Two players have to be in street clothes each night.
Who will Joel dress before other then Young?
Every minute he is on the court, a much better player is sitting on the bench.

tjmakz wrote:Bob,

Two players have to be in street clothes each night.
Who will Joel dress before other then Young?
Every minute he is on the court, a much better player is sitting on the bench.

TJ,

Vitor Faverani and Gerald Wallace are both coming back from knee surgeries. Vitor has said he won't be 100% in the beginning. There's two that don't need, and probably shouldn't, be suited up on day 1.



bob


.

bob,

I haven't heard that either won't be ready for the regular season.
Would you want Joel Anthony to play Center over Sullinger Or Kelly?
It's hard to give minutes at Center to a guy that doesn't score or rebound.

tjmakz wrote:bob,

I haven't heard that either won't be ready for the regular season.
Would you want Joel Anthony to play Center over Sullinger Or Kelly?
It's hard to give minutes at Center to a guy that doesn't score or rebound.

TJ,

I'd rather give minutes at 5 to Anthony than Sully. Sully is, and should play, 4.



bob


.

bobheckler wrote:

tjmakz wrote:bob,

I haven't heard that either won't be ready for the regular season.
Would you want Joel Anthony to play Center over Sullinger Or Kelly?
It's hard to give minutes at Center to a guy that doesn't score or rebound.

TJ,

I'd rather give minutes at 5 to Anthony than Sully.  Sully is, and should play, 4.



bob


.

They are both undersized when playing the center position.
Sully can easily play the 4 because he can spread the floor. Joel can't do that.
We can agree to disagree. I would rather give every minute possible at the center position to Zeller, Sullinger and Kelly.

No player under 6' 11" and 240 pounds need apply as anything but a stopgap center.

Sam

Last year, the team was starving for centers and Joel Anthony still only made short cameo appearances on the court.

I agree with BobH that he should get some game. Defense is a must, and it's something neither Kelly or Sully can provide at the 5.



KJ

tjmakz wrote:Two players have to be in street clothes each night.
Who will Joel dress before other then Young?
Every minute he is on the court, a much better player is sitting on the bench.

They can have 15 on the roster and 13 who dress for a game. If everyone's healthy, then yeah, it can be a conundrum, but players are injured and miss games throughout the season. Vitor played only 37 games and missed the last 35 games. Wallace missed the last 23. Bradley missed 22 games and Olynyk missed 12. That kind of stuff is typical, and the numbers alone tell me that Anthony will be on game rosters.

To me, Vitor and Anthony are competing for backup minutes at the center spot. They may go small occasionally and have Sullinger or Olynyk ostensibly at center for stretches against certain opponents, but on the whole, I'd rather have Sullinger and Olynyk spend their minutes at the 4 (or even together for stretches at the 4 and 3) than have them regularly play out of position at the 5.

Anthony won't get a lot of minutes, but you need guys at the end of the bench to come in and perform at some point during the season. Anthony can do that, and I have more faith in his ability than in Vitor's. If they think Vitor has the potential to become a rotation player on a contender, then they should play Vitor over Anthony, but read what Stevens says about Anthony in the article at the top of this thread and tell me how many of those characteristics apply to Vitor. Anthony won't be here when the Celtics become contenders again, but he can help players who will be here get better, and he can help build the winning culture that those players will need.

Outside,

There are also practice needs, which can become acute when multiple injuries occur.

You raise an interesting point about possibly having Olynyk (I assume it's he rather than Sully) play some three.  I've mentioned it in a couple of posts.  Against some of the less athletic small forwards, I'd be interested in seeing what his height advantage would accomplish on both offense and defense.  For that matter, I wouldn't mind seeing him spend a little experimental time at the floor general position.  He has ball-handing skills reflecting his background at that position, and his shooting abilities would fit.

Neither of these possibilities is something I'd want to see on even a semi-regular basis.  But I can see using them as options to catch opponents by surprise.  On occasions when Russell was in foul trouble, Red would send Cousy into the pivot.  With his ambidexterity, hook-shooting ability and agility advantage, he could drive opposing big men crazy for short periods of time.  About the time the opponent made an adjustment, Red would send someone like Conley or Lovellette in to play the center position.

It's often about seizing the edge by a surprise move that puts the opponent on the defensive—and then staying one step ahead of him over time. One of the best strategies a coach can utilize is to make whatever adjustments the opposing coach has made in the most recent huddle totally irrelevant.

Sam

Bb,

the trouble I see with playing Anthony more minutes, is that you are taking those minutes from one of Sully, Kelly , Zeller or Bass.

I understand that you feel only Zeller should be playing center out of that group.

But in my opinion, the Celtics need to play the best overall players on the court.

And Anthony falls below all of those four players, IMO.

But as outside said, he will be dressed and ready most games. It is what he does.

and the youngsters can learn something just by his professionalism .

kdp59 wrote:Bb,

the trouble I see with playing Anthony more minutes, is that you are taking those minutes from one of Sully, Kelly , Zeller or Bass.

I understand that you feel only Zeller should be playing center out of that group.

But in my opinion, the Celtics need to play the best overall players on the court.

And Anthony falls below  all of those four players, IMO.

But as outside said, he will be dressed and ready most games. It is what he does.

and the youngsters can learn something  just by his professionalism .

kdp,

I'm assuming that was addressed to me, rather than some new member named "B Flat".

What I want is for players to play their positions as much as possible. If Kelly isn't going to be a center in this league, any more than Dirk has been despite his size, then I don't want him playing center for more than spot minutes when we want to go smaller/faster by having Kelly outrun his counterpart down court. If we we're playing the best overall players then we're going to be playing a lot of small-ball because we are very guard-centric.

One of our problems last year is that we couldn't match up at center. Sully was mismatched and Vitor struggled until he got injured. I want centers playing center, PFs playing PF, SFs playing SF, etc. It doesn't help having your best player on the court if he's getting turned into jam every night because he's playing out of position. Bradley was one of the best guards we had last year, especially after Crawford got traded. He played some PG and he sucked because that's not his position. How did that forward his development?

Anthony can tell Zeller and Kelly how to play center against different centers in the league. Maybe that will help. Or, he could go out there and show them how it's done. Sometimes experience is the best teacher and sometimes observing a veteran is. If Kelly isn't physically up to playing center then what is Anthony? And yet he DOES play center. Who did Kelly get to watch last year and learn how to play center? Nobody. Who did Zeller get to watch, when he was at Cleveland? Varajao, a PF playing center. Both Zeller and Kelly are a bit defensively-challenged. That is Anthony's forte. Perk became a MUCH better defender when he got to play with KG, MUCH better, and that's despite the fact that Perk was better built for playing inside than KG. KG had the brains, though, and so does Anthony. Kelly will learn more about defense from playing alongside Anthony, at PF, than he will be by replacing him at center.



bob


.

Agreed, Bob. I don't believe Anthony will take any of Zeller's minutes One important question will be how many minutes Zeller will play. In his first season, he started in 55 of his 77 games and averaged 26.4 MPG. Last year, his usage dipped considerable (15 MPG), but I wouldn't be surprised if he were to average close to 30 MPG with the Celtics. This would leave something in the vicinity of 18 MPG to be filled by others. I guess I'd rather have Favorani and Anthony playing most of those minutes rather than Sully and/or Olynyk because I detest playing guys out of position. Something tells me, though, that Sully will see more center minutes than Favorani or Anthony—very possibly more than the two of them combined. I don't like the idea of Olynyk playing center because I doubt that will ever be his true position—especially if he keeps improving his three-point shooting as he did over last season.

Sam

Sam...Gene Conley Celtics center, Red Sox pitcher, and long time Floridian. Quite an athlete. Besides Danny Ainge, how many other NBA players can you think of who also played MLB? Then there was Chuck the Rifleman Connors who also had a career as an actor.

sam wrote:Agreed, Bob.  I don't believe Anthony will take any of Zeller's minutes  One important question will be how many minutes Zeller will play.  In his first season, he started in 55 of his 77 games and averaged 26.4 MPG.  Last year, his usage dipped considerable (15 MPG), but I wouldn't be surprised if he were to average close to 30 MPG with the Celtics.  This would leave something in the vicinity of 18 MPG to be filled by others.  I guess I'd rather have Favorani and Anthony playing most of those minutes rather than Sully and/or Olynyk because I detest playing guys out of position.  Something tells me, though, that Sully will see more center minutes than Favorani or Anthony—very possibly more than the two of them combined.  I don't like the idea of Olynyk playing center because I doubt that will ever be his true position—especially if he keeps improving his three-point shooting as he did over last season.

Sam

sam,


I'm not convinced Kelly will become a true center, but I'd have to see how he puts on weight and muscle before I say that. His alligator arms will never get longer, but he could still play tough. Right now, though, at even 245# (7# more than last year) I'd say no. Two years from now, if he's closer to 260# and it's good muscle, we'll see. Even if his alligator arms don't grow, he'll still be 7'0".



bob


.

What on Earth is this fascination with playing guys out of position? It simply does not work.



KJ

DeBusschere

k_j_88 wrote:What on Earth is this fascination with playing guys out of position? It simply does not work.



KJ

rather play someone out of position than play Joel (DNPCD).

sorry Anthony does NOTHING for me.

you wanna play FAV, OK I get that.

Joel....afraid not.

we'll see how it plays out as the season progress'

Maybe Joel has a career year!!

21.1 Min per game
3.9 Reb
0.3 Ass
0.6 Steals
1.4 Blocks
0.7 TO
2.6 fouls
3.5 points

those are his CAREER HIGHS.

nope I can't understand why anyone wouldn't want Joel taking up minutes.

oh , I know but he's such a beast on defense...........all 6-9, 245# of him.

but Sully at 6-9, 260 can't play center?

all clear to me now.



as cowboy cokehead says....COME ON MAN!

kdp59 wrote:
rather play someone out of position than play Joel (DNPCD).

sorry Anthony does NOTHING for me.

you wanna play FAV, OK I get that.

Joel....afraid not.

we'll see how it plays out as the season progress'

Maybe Joel has a career year!!

21.1 Min per game
3.9 Reb
0.3 Ass
0.6 Steals
1.4 Blocks
0.7 TO
2.6 fouls
3.5 points

those are his CAREER HIGHS.

nope I can't understand why anyone wouldn't want Joel taking up minutes.

oh , I know but he's such a beast on defense...........all 6-9, 245# of him.

but Sully at 6-9, 260 can't play center?

all clear to me now.



as cowboy cokehead says....COME ON MAN!

KDP,

Look no further than last year. The results are plain as day for all to see, and they were not pretty.

We already have indisputable evidence of what happens when Sullinger and Olynyk attempt to play center.

1. Their collective post defense is too weak to anchor the middle.

2. Because Sully is a natural PF, not a center, he is more susceptible to being worn down as the season persists. Doesn't matter if he's 265 or 270. Playing center is more than how much you weigh.

3. Kelly has the height, but lacks the aggressiveness on defense. Also, short arms makes defending opposing centers more difficult for him. And because he's not a legit center, he'd get worn down as well facing off against other centers.

4. End result? The Celtics' interior defense was so ineffective that the team was at the bottom of the league in offensive rebounding, and opponents had a field day in the paint. It is more than reasonable to say that Kelly and Sully do not belong in the frontcourt together, unless Kelly is at the 3 and Sully is at the 4.

5. Joel Anthony is a veteran presence, which ALL teams need. He also understands how to play center.

6. Who gives a damn if both Sullinger and Olynyk are statistically better players than Joel if he's better at the 5 than both of them?

7. The Celtics need to begin to operate under normal circumstances. Normal meaning that guys are playing their natural positions. This means that:

Players can begin the process of actual sustained development. Playing out of position is a hindrance to a young player's progress. Look at Bradley when he was running the point. Atrocious! But once he was back at SG? Most reliable scoring option on the team.

Kelly and Sully probably shouldn't be on the court simultaneously for extended periods of time. Brad will need to make use of match-ups to the best of his ability.

8. When considering rotations, it's more than just picking the 5 best individual players based on stats. It's also which players coexist best with which players. And I believe that having a center facilitates this purpose.



KJ

worcester wrote:Sam...Gene Conley Celtics center, Red Sox pitcher, and long time Floridian. Quite an athlete. Besides Danny Ainge, how many other NBA players can you think of who also played MLB? Then there was Chuck the Rifleman Connors who also had a career as an actor.

Dave DeBusschere, pitcher

Played a couple seasons with the White Sox...actually won a game.

Here is the list of both NBA and MLB players.

He is one of only 12 athletes to have played in both Major League Baseball and the National Basketball Association, or its predecessor the Basketball Association of America, the others being: Mark Hendrickson, Danny Ainge, Gene Conley, Ron Reed, Dick Groat, Steve Hamilton, Cotton Nash, Frank Baumholtz, Dick Ricketts, Howie Schultz and Chuck Connors.

beat

Joel won't play over 300 minutes this year.

kdp59 wrote:Joel won't play over 300 minutes this year.

He probably won't. And if Stevens does try the Sully-Kelly, PF-C combo for an extended period, it would certainly give me a bit of pause when it comes to Stevens' ability to learn from his mistakes.

He learned from the Bradley-PG mistake, and I hope he learns from this.


KJ

k_j_88 wrote:

kdp59 wrote:Joel won't play over 300 minutes this year.

He probably won't. And if Stevens does try the Sully-Kelly, PF-C combo for an extended period, it would certainly give me a bit of pause when it comes to Stevens' ability to learn from his mistakes.

He learned from the Bradley-PG mistake, and I hope he learns from this.


KJ

man......now I am REALLY confused.

I thought you gave EIGHT reasons why Joel should be getting minutes at center next year?

now you agree that he probably won't play more than 300?

best players, play.

Joel is NOT one of the best four big men on the roster right now. no one can seriously say that.

many keep talking about "center, center, center"...time to look around the league folks.

more teams have what you would consider PF's playing center, than don't now.

including the Celtics this coming year, unless Ainge makes another deal along the way.

The way I see it right now

Sully plays 2200 min
Zeller plays 1800 min
Kelly plays 1800
Bass plays 1800

that's about 7600 min out of 7900 at the TWO big man positions (keep thinking of it like that, it makes it easier).


That leaves about 300 min for Fav and/or Joel (or even Green).

Unless you REALLY feel that Joel is a better player than the other four, he won't play much.

and he shouldn't.

he's NOT that good.

Joel Anthony is a bad NBA player.
If he didn't already have a contract, it's highly unlikely he would get a veterans minimum contract.
There is no upside with him.
I would by far rather have a Ryan Hollins type of player who is active, gets rebounds and runs the court.

Boston wasn't bad at offensive rebounds last year because of Kelly and Sullinger.
Sullinger is a very good offensive rebounder at PF or C.
Boston has been bad with offensive rebounding for many many years.

Joel will get some minutes here and there.
It will mostly be in garbage time.
He will also have many DNP-CD's.