Warriors may offer Ellis for Ray Allen

Warriors may offer Ellis for Ray Allen

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By A. Sherrod Blakely
CSNNE.com

BOSTON — The trading deadline is less than a month away, and rumors seem to grow like algae.

This is especially true when it comes to players with expiring contracts such as Boston's Ray Allen.
While the Celtics have maintained repeatedly that they have no intentions of moving any of their core guys between now and the Feb. 18 trading deadline -- and I believe 'em on this one -- multiple league sources confirmed today that the Golden State Warriors are giving some thought to putting together a trade package that would involve Monta Ellis going to Boston in exchange for Allen.

The Warriors see rookie Stephen Curry as the face of the franchise moving forward. One league source said the Warriors believe that Curry won't develop at the rate they would like as long as Ellis is around.

Golden State saw flashes of just how talented Curry can be against New Jersey earlier this week when playing without Ellis.

With Ellis out with a sprained right ankle, Curry went off for a career-high 32 points.

For such a deal to work, the Warriors would have to include at least one additional salary. The most likely player to be included would be Vladamir Radmonovic, who has a player option after this season but isn't expected to exercise it.

Danny Ainge, Boston's president of basketball operations, has talked to a number of teams about a number of players recently.

But it doesn't appear that this is a deal he has given any serious thought to considering.

Ainge has said repeatedly that he wants to see how the Celtics, as they are currently constructed, play together when relatively healthy.

Boston has yet to play a game this season with an entirely healthy roster.

That means any deal involving the C's likely won't happen until shortly before the deadline, which is about the time that Marquis Daniels (left thumb) is expected back.

While this deal would certainly give Boston another high powered scorer, on the surface it appears to hurt them in many, many ways.

Of the team's Big Three, only the 34-year-old Allen has played in all 41 games this season. Meanwhile, Ellis has a history of injuries even before his most recent setback.

Plus, Ellis is one of those players who is at his best when he has the ball in his hands.

Doing that in Boston means taking it out of the hands of Rondo, which is something the Celtics don't want to do.

And then there's the whole issue of chemistry and defense - two areas that are not considered strongsuits of Ellis.

As you can see, adding a player of Ellis' caliber poses a number of challenges, the kind of challenges a veteran, championship-caliber team usually passes on.

While it's certainly worth monitoring, fans shouldn't expect to see Monta Ellis in a Celtics uniform anytime soon.

A. Sherrod Blakely can be reached at sblakely@comcastsportsnet.com

112288

if i was danny...i would seriously think

but good lord ray allen is ray allen

No thanks. Ellis is a great scorer. Period.

He is a poor defender, a poor passer, and seems to have a poor, me first attitude. Not at all the kind of player the Celtics need from a chemistry stand point. Plus the kid is always hurt, or in trouble (or both)

No thanks.

I'll pass on this one. Love, Danny

Hi y'all,

Living in the bay area and trying, the best I can, to be a Warrior fan whenever they're not playing the Celtics I've had the opportunity to watch Monta Ellis for a few years now.

The report coming out today from the Contra Costa Times is that the Warriors are NOT trading Ellis. Of course, they all say that until the right deal hits the table.

1. He's a bona fide talent. No ifs, ands or buts. A big difference between Monta and Ray is that Ray elevates the play of every player, with his unselfish and classy ways, a real role model, Monta's a 24-year old kid (24th birthday in October) who's been ooohed and aaahhhed over since he came out of high school to the NBA. His veteran mentors were Baron Davis, perhaps the only player in the NBA more selfish than KoME and thug-a-rama Stephen Jackson.

2. He has decent size at 6'3" and can shoot from anywhere. This year he's shooting 46% from the field and almost 31% from 3. Neither are bad, although Ray is shooting better from 3 this year. He shoots 75% from the line. Clearly, Ray has the clear edge there too.

3. Both Monta and Ray are natural 2s. Monta can play point, but so can Ray. Monta, when playing point, is more aggressive than Ray.

4. Monta isn't a great defender, but other than Ronny Turiaf (whom I love) who does play defense for Nellie? Ever? Ray wasn't a good defender either before he came here and KG and Thib gave him religion.

5. Monta has an ego. Monta also has never played with KG or Pierce. Who's going to "out-ego" Monta and put him in his place on the Warriors? Baron Davis did, but he's gone. Stephen Jackson tried, but he's no role model I'd follow. We got the two future HOFers above and Sheed. Also, one of the things that creates "ego-issues" is playing on bad teams. It's amazing how winning shuts "problem" players up.

6. Monta's young and athletic. We've had a problem with athletic teams. 1 and 2 are athletic positions. You can get away with "being crafty" when you're a big. You're big and close to the basket. You don't have to run fast or far or even be quick to get to your spot. If you're a small, being slow is a liability. Look at 35-year old D-Fish. He's a fine player who works on his conditioning, but his skills have dropped off the table this year and every point guard in the league is abusing him physically. If you're a "eyes-wide-open" Laker fan, you gotta cringe having him out on the floor for more than 15 minutes. Did anybody see that coming?

7. There's the intangibles. The team chemistry. The value of playing with the same guys for 3 years. Obviously, Ray has that over Monta in spades.


Bottom line, I'd hate to lose Ray. He's one of my favorite Celtics in many years. He epitomizes all the selfless team play that makes the Boston Celtics the gold standard in a team game sport. He's a poster boy. However, he's 34 (turns 35 in July), 10+ years older than Ellis. He's a guard and guards generally don't last much past 35 without significant deterioration in their games. He has a year, MAYBE two left. Ellis has a half dozen all-star years in him, maybe more.

This team is built for now, but do we really want to wait another 20 years for the next championship after the 3 Amigos are gone because we held on too long?

My 2c,

bob

This is an article in the Herald regarding the Allen/Ellis trade rumor:

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view/20100126don_nelson_laughs_off_talk_of_warriors-celtics_deal/


Personally, I like the idea of getting someone similiar to Ellis (i.e. young, capable of playing backup PG and a good scorer) rather than Ellis himself. Yeah he scores a lot of points, but he also takes a ton of shots and isn't known for being a good defender.

Question

When has Ellis had a team around him and a staff that really was out to win games?

Ray works at defense but many times he is beaten by his man off the dribble.

Sure I like Ray a lot, and all the "other" things he brings to the table on and off the court, but 34 is 34 no matter how you slice it. Wonder how the other C's would feel about it, and would their opinion be taken into account. In my opinion Ellis would do fine here, but I doubt the trigger ever gets pulled on this one.

beat

Bob,

Thanks for supplying that detailed and impartial summary. I appreciate the time and thought that went into your post.

My initial thought was this rumour is a no brainer for the reject pile. It sounds like another one of those quickly hyped, quickly forgotten ideas, but you've brought up a lot of good points in both directions.

Regards

nyc

I have been out in bay for couple of weeks and watching the Warriors and this kid can flat ball. Kleen in my opinion you are off in your thinking about him. He has been playing a ton of minutes and flat carrying the team. And he does try hard on d. He just needs a winning scene built around him.

He and Rondo in the same backcourt would drive people nuts.

Ellis is very fast and can shoot outside or get to the hoop whenever he damn well feels like it. Very superb athlete.

I aint sure what I think on this one but I would damn sure give it some thought. I love Ray as a celtic. Love the guy...

Adding Monta Ellis to the Celtics would seriously retard the growth of Rajon Rondo.

Ellis is a ball hog and needs to have the ball and a green light to be effective.

I like the idea of getting younger….I can think of 20 players I would like more than Monta Ellis.

kleen

He damn sure dominates the ball and it is risky I will give you that. How many full games have you seen him play?

I have league pass...been watching him for a few years now. He is very good offensive player - seems to rest on D most of the time - and seems to pound the ball into the ground. See very little ball movement from him.

I think he is a solid player, probably an all star - but I dont see him as a good fit here unless you also move KG and Pierce.

Yeah I got my doubts about the fit too. It's just tempting cause the dude is so talented. At the end of the day I'd prolly pass but I also sort of wonder how he would respond to a winning enviroment.

Jeb,

As I mentioned to Bob earlier he made good points in both directions and supplied an impartial look.

My personal feeling is still more in line with Mrkleen. It sounds like you've seen a lot more of Ellis than I have, so I'll take your word there's some good stuff there. After reading what I could find about him in the San Jose Mercury and the Contra Costa Times, plus what I've seen of him against teams like San Antonio, New Orleans, Denver and Phoenix, I'm not completely sold. He can put points up in bunches though.

However based upon last nights Celtic pre-game comments and word from out west today I'm still guessing this goes on the reject pile as over-hyped, not going to happen.

As usual on these matters my opinion doesn't really count since once again Danny Ainge has neglected to call me. I'm in the phone book too.

I hope you are doing well and that the work schedule has calmed down some.

Regards

NYC

in bed reading sams so things are cooling out. I think Ellis is a very gifted player. I think the warriors are really playing hard and trying.

Is Ellis selfish. Yes. But he seems to be learning.

He is a very special offensive talent. Up there with the best in the nba. He is very quick and very strong. He needs coaching.

I cant imagine that the warriors would do the trade. But Ray could sure help them. I think you are right and this one is all smoke.

and nyc I concur bobheck really summed it up neutral.

This Monta Ellis scenario is very interesting.

The fact That Ray Allen's name is in the mix does not surprise me at all.

The Celtics have to make a decision. If they keep him until the end of the year he becomes a free agent. He could sign with any team although he has indicated a desire to stay with the Celtics. At this point his salary would have to be dramatically reduced if Boston decides to keep him and one has to be concerend that he is well beyond his prime. He's a great chemistry guy and a professional but the long term goal for Boston is to stay competitive.

Some may recall that Monta Ellis was on the Celtics radar before he was drafted. He is young and imature but very talented. He is an undersized combo guard that can flat out score the basketball although he really is not a big time 3 point shooter.

He averages 26 ppg with 5.5 assists and 4.2 rebounds. However he takes 22.3 shots per game (just like Ray did before he came over to the celtics) so the big question is can he play within a system that really shares the basketball? He also averages 2.2 steals per game so he does has the ability to be a better defender.

If you matched him with rondo in the backcourt you would have one of the quickest most explosive backcourts in the NBA. That prospect is very exciting.

Ray has been struggling all year. Let's see how he performs against the 3 elite teams coming up. If he plays poorly DA may pull the trigger.

dboss

Dboss, I don't think it's as simple as Danny pulling the trigger on this trade if Ray doesn't perform well. Why would Golden State want to trade their best player for a 34 year old guy putting up the worst numbers of his career? Yes, he's an expiring contract, but I don't think that's enough. I'm not trying to dis Ray, but his future role will probably see him as a very good bench player...not a guy who can carry a struggling franchise.

HEY kellygreen

I would be surprised if this particular trade went down but not surprised if a trade went down involving Ray Allen. GS may consider trading ellis becasue they have Stepan Curry and GS may be looking to dump some salary at the end of the year.

From what I have read there is little chance that this deal could actually get down,

Agreed dboss, I wouldn't be shocked to see Ray go. I would feel bad for him, especially after reading all the articles lately about how much he wants to stay in Boston, but the C's really do need to get some more young talent in here if we want to remain a title contender.

I almost feel like the C's would have been better off trading Ray prior to the start of the season. I feel like his play this year has reduced his trade value. We'll see, maybe Danny has some tricks up his sleeve!

If the team keeps the big 3 intact, all we have is the small expirings next month (which can add up to a good player or two) and the MLE next year to use for roster improvement. Ouch!!

Scal, House, Tony, Marquis, JR, Williams and Walker are all coming off the books next year. There are enough expiring contracts to make two trades, get two good players, take on a little salary and fill in the gaps with waiver guys.

Glen Davis is BYC, which complicates any trade scenario that includes him. Not impossible, due to his (relatively) low salary and hence (relatively) low BYC penalty. Some team that is under the cap will have to take on some salary, and that is the catch. There aren't many teams willing to take on salary at this point in time.

Trading Ray Allen is making more sense to me as time goes on. As long as it is to a total bottom dweller, includes their early first round pick and nets us a quality, if somewhat over-paid, PG, SG or combo guard. Then I woke up!!

There is concern that after we trade Ray, he will be bought out from his new team in time to come back to haunt us as a Cav, Hawk or even a Laker. There is no incentive for him to come back because:

If Ray gets traded, bought out and then signs on with the C's as a free agent, he loses Bird rights and the C's can only sign him with another exception (MLE or worse, Vet Minimum). That scenario will surely leave a bad taste in Ray's mouth, regarding the C's.

If Ray gets traded, the only way he can come back to the C's with a good salary is if his new team keeps him for the entire season, which keeps his Bird rights intact. Then they use those Bird rights in a sign-and-trade back to the C's. Not very likely.

The final result is that the C's keep Ray and sign him to a 3-year contract for about 30mil. No one else is going to give him that kind of money, IMO. Plus Danny pulls off a couple deadline trades (2-1, 3-1), adds a couple waiver guys and goes into the playoffs with a couple more "difference-makers". Think PJ Brown-ish difference. Not a team carrier, just a difference-maker.

Oh yeah, Doc: You can start to cut back on Ray's minutes any time now. It ain't working. He is the team leader in average minutes played (or close to). Marquis won't be back for a couple weeks, maybe he won't be game ready for a couple more. Don't wait for that to happen, act now!!!

gyso

Gyso,

Good stuff. Thanks!

Pete

Gyso

That is pretty much how I was thinking too. I just got back from west coast and wathced Ellis a bunch and he is a rare talent. But the things Ray does on and off the court matter to this team.

If we trade Ray we dont win it this year imho. Chances to win it are rare.

Lets get healthy. Lets cut back on Rays minutes about 6 per game.

Lets peak at the right time.

I wonder what would be a better idea..

Settling for second in the east and 2nd-3rd in the league and resting players/letting new people get some learning time

vs.

Trying to race with Cleveland/Lakers for home court through playoffs.