POST GAME NEW YORK - PRESEASON

dboss,

Sad but true.  One thing many of us may have overlooked in our earlier job upon his arrival was that, whether one looks at his first or second season, whatever success or failures he had, they were with a substandard team.  I believe this Celtics team is already far better than those Cavs teams—and especially more uptempo.  That magnifies the importance of a half second of tardiness.

Can he improve?  I hope so.  But I'm particularly encouraged by the potential Kelly shows at the "5."

Sam

Mrkleen,

Not only can Green and Turner coexist, but I think Turner can take enough scoring pressure off Jeff to free Jeff from having to force things so much.  The fact that their offensive games are similar doesn't mean they'll be in competition.  They'll just be better suited to complementing one another (with Turner at the "2") as either of them can open up something inside or outside for the other.

Sam

sam wrote:dboss,

Sad but true.  One thing many of us may have overlooked in our earlier job upon his arrival was that, whether one looks at his first or second season, whatever success or failures he had, they were with a substandard team.  I believe this Celtics team is already far better than those Cavs teams—and especially more uptempo.  That magnifies the importance of a half second of tardiness.

Can he improve?  I hope so.  But I'm particularly encouraged by the potential Kelly shows at the "5."

Sam

do I have a convert?

just asking.

It should be possible to compliment Turner without admonishing Green...

This team features a great deal of versatility. Green and Turner on the court at the same time could prove to be a matchup nightmare for opposing teams. The discussion should be how they will play together, not who may or may not be better than the other.


KJ

mrkleen09 wrote:Couple of additions

In the post game show, Chris Mannix - who I dont see as a big basketball mind, called out for his first point of contention - KO and the fact that Andrea Barnagini (sp) beat him a few times on the offensive end.  Totally discarding all the other good things Kelly did, and in turn proving he is yet another second rate analyst.

I heard some of the usual Jeff Green Haters brigade talking about Turner and Green not being able to co-exsist, and Turner looking better etc.....I do not see it at all.  I think they would work well together and they each do something the other cannot.  Green is an up quick, driver who gets in trouble when the game slows down and he has to create out of a set offense.  

Turner is the opposite, who is a good shot maker - but is clearly not athletic enough to lead the break.  I see them being very good on the court together - with Green taking a first run up the court, if nothing is there, the ball is kicked back out and Turner goes to work on his man - 1 on 1.  I see no conflict whatsoever.

while theres only one Lebron, Turner is definitely athletic enough to lead the break, have we watched the same 2 games?

cowens/oldschool wrote:while theres only one Lebron, Turner is definitely athletic enough to lead the break, have we watched the same 2 games?

Guess we were watching two different games. Evan Turner is an average athlete with below average foot speed. Those are both skills that do not lend themselves to leading the fast break.

mrkleen09 wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:while theres only one Lebron, Turner is definitely athletic enough to lead the break, have we watched the same 2 games?

Guess we were watching two different games.  Evan Turner is an average athlete with below average foot speed.  Those are both skills that do not lend themselves to leading the fast break.

when there was an opportumity to run did you see him dunk with 2 hands? go see him dunk on a break over Lebron last year, the guy is better at the running game than most.

go to youtube, its easy to find

I watched Evan Turner at OSU, I watched him in Philly and Indiana, and I watched the game last night, I dont need youtube.

His body of work says he is NOT a great athlete and not a player who thrives running the fast break.  He is a half court, pick and roll player.  Picking out a few plays here and there proves nothing.

Even as far back as 2010, his scouting report said as much:

A limited spot up player because of a lack of touches (2 Pos/G) working off the ball as Ohio State’s primary ball-handler, Turner’s 0.7 PPP in isolation situations is below average as well. He compensates with impressive numbers on the pick and roll. With over 25.8% of his offense running coming from the two-man game, Turner scores a very impressive 1.029 PPP coming off of ball-screens. Clearly Turner is a player who will need the ball in his hands in the NBA to be successful.

Turner’s excellent shooting efficiency in half court settings is the result of his ability to get to the rim. His 5 shots at the rim per-game is good for third amongst his peers, and his 55.8% shooting is well above average. The majority of his 7.2 jump shots per-game come off of pull up shots, of which he hits a second ranking 42.3%. This part of his game is already tailor made to the NBA—which will help his transition significantly.

Regardless, any team looking for a dynamic shot-creator to give their half-court offense a huge shot in the arm would benefit greatly from Turner’s presence. This study does not even take into account his passing, rebounding or defensive skills, three of his best attributes, and which make him arguably the most versatile prospect in this draft.

With the skill set and fluidity that he possesses in the half court set, it would seem that Turner would have similar success when he has the ball in transition as well; this isn’t the case though. Despite showing flashes of being a big time threat on the break, Turner still has some growing to do as a player in this aspect of his game. He tends to make the types of mistakes one would expect from a freshman with his kind of game: forcing the issue more often than not and making poor decisions with shot selection.

From DraftExpress.com

Hes not a great uber athlete, either was Paul Pierce. I never said he was a great athlete.

You claimed he was not athletic enough to run the break YOUR wrong kleen!!!

Look at bobs first picture, who dat? I don't think he can score in traffic like Paul Pierce, but he's got a versatile wing game.....ofcourse he can run.

kdp,

If you're talking about Kelly, I guess you do have a convert—at least on a tentative basis.  What we're seeing now is must a prelude to the persistence of the basketball wars that lie ahead if Kelly were to play center on a regular basis.  It's possible that he has the energy to look good now in situations where the wear and tear of the season could ultimately sap his vitality.  But he seemed to improve as last season wore on; so I guess anything's possible.

Sam

just jabbing ya a little Sam.

I know I have been in the minority thinking that Kelly could very well be our starting center.

I was amazed by how many seemed to think that Zeller was so much bigger and stronger then Kelly is.

I would see pictures of them playing each other from last year and you could easily see that Kelly was bigger then.

Maybe Stevens and Ainge already knew how the center position was going to play out with Kelly, I don't know.


but I think at least for now, we see the rotation at center that Stevens sees as the best for this team

Kelly
Zeller
Joel ( Fav?).

of course we've only played two preseason games against non playoff teams, so we don't have a lot to go on for sure. I just feel Kelly does have the upside to be ON the floor on this current team.

I also think Fav may be in danger of being sent back home, if Powell continues his hustling on the floor.

not that Powell is a CENTER at all. he's a PF/SF combo. But if he shows as well as last game the rest of the pre-season (practices) then how can you NOT keep him on the roster?

cowens/oldschool wrote:

You claimed he was not athletic enough to run the break YOUR wrong kleen!!!

So just to be clear Cow, you are telling us that Evan Turner is a good fast break player and we should expect to see him leading the break on a regular basis for the Celtics?

yes kleen, hes not Igoudala or Lebron athletically, but he has enough ball handling and guile and finishing ability and passing skills to be effective in fastbreak/transition basketball.