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6 Years Gone: What Has Danny Done For Us Lately?
by bobheckler Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:18 pm
http://www.celticsblog.com/2014/10/17/6969859/6-years-gone-what-has-danny-ainge-done-for-boston-lately
6 Years Gone: What has Danny Ainge Done For Boston Lately?
By Ian Mark @TheRealIanMark on Oct 17 2014, 8:00a 52
Robert Mayer-USA TODAY Sports
Examining Danny Ainge's roster moves since the 2008 title, during the traditional "grace period" for championship winning teams.
When your team wins a title, it changes the nature of your fanhood. The losses don't hurt as much, the wins are more expected, and a special place in your heart is carved out for all the players that contributed. The coach and the general manager, regardless of their prior reputations, acquire a certain cachet that only comes with a ring.
Bill Simmons described the concept of a "grace period" as far back as 2004, noting that teams (and their fans) are extremely reluctant to move on from a general manager that brought them a title. Simmons argues that no fan should complain for five years following a title, regardless of how the team does.
While it is difficult to measure fan satisfaction with a general manager, ownership satisfaction is not hard to gauge-- If the owner isn't satisfied, the general manager loses his job. Recent history certainly supports Simmons' claim, as Joe Dumars is the only title-winning general manager in the last 20 seasons forced to end his tenure, and the Detroit Pistons fired him almost ten years after winning their championship in 2004.
The Boston Celtics won the NBA title on June 17th, 2008. It is now October 15, 2014. Danny Ainge's grace period is over. Let's take a quick look back at some of his notable moves while it lasted.
2008-2010: Maintaining a title contender
When Ainge landed Kevin Garnett to pair with Ray Allen and Paul Pierce in the summer of 2007, he expected a three year window for title contention. After winning the title in 2008, the Celtics rightly expected to compete for the title each of the next two years with the same core Big Three. Danny Ainge won Executive of the Year for the 2008 season, and erased his reputation as a tinkerer without a plan. He was now a free-thinker, a contrarian, a mastermind.
He set out to reinforce the team, not to remake it, signing veterans like Stephon Marbury, Rasheed Wallace, Mikki Moore, and Marquis Daniels in an attempt to strengthen the bench. Ainge also took chances on low-risk, high-reward signings like Patrick O'Bryant and Darius Miles, two former top-ten picks.
A 2009-2010 mid-season trade saw Eddie House shipped out in favor of Nate Robinson, exchanging one inconsistent bench gunner for another.
None of these moves panned out as planned, as injuries to Kevin Garnett one year and Kendrick Perkins the next exposed the Celtics' lack of depth in postseason losses to the Orlando Magic and Los Angeles Lakers. Wallace memorably asked out of Game 7 of the Finals loss to the Lakers, citing exhaustion.
The team's over-reliance on aging, past-their prime supporting players was due partly to Ainge's inability to find players late in the draft that could contribute. J.R Giddens, Semih Erden, Bill Walker, and Lester Hudson, all drafted after the title, found themselves on the end of the bench for the duration of their short stints in Boston.
2010-2013: The title window closes
With Kendrick Perkins rehabbing the ACL he tore in Game 6 of the Finals, Ainge for the first time since the Big Three arrived was forced to find a new starting-caliber player to fill in until Perkins returned. He signed Shaquille O'Neal to fill that role. The once dominant O'Neal was 38 years old at the time, and had just come off career lows in scoring and rebounding, averaging 12 points and 6.7 rebounds over 53 games for the Cavaliers. He wouldn't meet either of those marks in Boston, as injuries and weight issues limited him to a measly 37 games, during which he averaged only 9.2 points and 4.8 rebounds. Ainge added another old center in Jermaine O'Neal, but injuries severely limited his playing time while in Boston.
Ainge also struggled again to find bench scoring in free agency, as guards Von Wafer and Delonte West never earned coach Doc Rivers' trust. As the trade deadline approached, Ainge admitted to failing in the off-season by reiterating the team's need for bench scoring.
A quick aside: The Celtics' preferred starting five, consisting of the Big Three, Perkins, and point guard Rajon Rondo, never lost a playoff series when all five were healthy. This point was made repeatedly by Doc Rivers as the team, first in the Eastern Conference when the trade was made, awaited Perkins' return to form.
Ainge swung for the fences, trading Perkins and Nate Robinson to the Oklahoma City Thunder for Jeff Green, the immortal Nenad Krstic, and a 2012 first-round pick from the Clippers. Since this trade, the Celtics have never been considered a favorite to win the title. The trade weakened the Celtic's interior defense, their biggest strength and one advantage over the newly formed Miami Heat superteam, in order to upgrade their backup forward slot.
Ainge also added Troy Murphy before the playoffs, who continued the aging veteran big-man tradition of Wallace and O'Neal by failing to live up his past performance while in Boston. Carlos Arroyo came in to back up Rondo, and he did that, albeit without much production or defensive ability.
As Garnett, Pierce, and Allen declined, Rajon Rondo's ascension helped the Celtics claim a top-4 seed in 2011 and 2012. His play also helped mitigate Ainge's resistance to change the roster dramatically by trading one of his top four players, instead scraping the bargain bin for players who provided average play at best, acquiring Brandon Bass, Sasha Pavlovic, Chris Wilcox, Keyon Dooling, and Greg Stiemsma on team-friendly contracts.
When Ray Allen left the team in free agency after the 2011-2012 season, Ainge attempted to drag a 6th year out of his three year core, bringing in Jason Terry and Courtney Lee to replace Allen's shooting. Avery Bradley's development the year before had moved Allen out of the starting lineup and injected the team with some much needed youth.
Ainge deserves credit for picking Bradley 19th in 2010, but misses on Luke Harangody, Jajuan Johnson, and E'Twaun Moore left Ainge shooting 1-8 on picking prospects since the title. Ainge continued to invest in high-upside young players like center Sean Williams, with minimal returns.
The 2012 draft offered a big opportunity to add more youth to one of the oldest teams in the league, as the Celtics had two first-round picks, courtesy of the Perkins trade. When the trade was made, supporters of the move pointed to the Clippers pick as a move for the future.
Ainge evidently saw the pick the same way, drafting Fab Melo, a developmental prospect at center out of Syracuse. Ainge said Melo would take a few years to develop, but a few years later Melo is already out of the NBA after lasting just one season in Boston. Kris Joseph joined the growing list of second round picks Ainge missed on, while Jared Sullinger was considered the steal of the draft after back issues caused the projected top five pick to fall to the Celtics at 21. But he then missed 37 games and the playoffs due to back issues.
Mickael Pietrus, brought in after Pierce was injured early in the year, never played well offensively and defensively at the same time. Jason Collins signed a one-year deal, and averaged over 1 point a game. Leandro Barbosa, four years removed from his last productive season, played 32 games. Darko Milicic became another buy-low candidate to not pan out for Ainge. Terrence Williams, D.J. White, and Shavlik Randolph all had cups of coffee with the team as Ainge shuffled through retread after retread, searching for a combination that could lift up the anemic bench. Barbosa and Collins were flipped for guard Jordan Crawford, who didn't earn consistent playing time until 2013-2014.
The Celtics finished 41-40 in seventh place in the East. The Knicks handled the Celtics in six games, as the Celtics' once-dominant defense could no longer prop up its ever-flailing offense.
2013-2014: Tank-building
With their disappointing first-round loss in mind, Ainge closed the window on the Big Three once and for all, trading Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, and Jason Terry to the Brooklyn Nets for a bounty of draft picks and salaries to match. The move, in conjunction with Rondo's delayed return from his own ACL tear, signified a decided step back for the Boston Celtics, an admission that a rebuild was necessary.
Ainge brought in Butler coach Brad Stevens to lead the arduous journey back to contention. In a weak draft, Ainge surprisingly moved up three picks to get Kelly Olynyk, whom Ainge himself admitted probably wouldn't be a starter in the NBA.
The Celtics threw away the 2013-2014 season in their quest for a top-five pick. There's no need to rehash the horrors of last year here, but it should be noted that the Celtics ended up with the 6th overall pick.
Ainge has acquired countless draft picks and young players since the end of the Big Three era, and while a few look promising, they have little value around the league. Avery Bradley just signed a 4 year 32 million dollar contract with the Celtics, and he is the best regarded of their young prospects. His obvious talent is undermined by his inability to stay on the court. The most damning indication of this lack of value was Ainge's inability to entice Timberwolves President/GM/Coach/Parking Lot Attendant Flip Saunders with anyone on the roster when the Kevin Love Sweepstakes were underway.
Moving forward, it is unclear what the plan is. The team seems primed for a run at the 10th seed in the lowly East, too young to overcome their obvious lack of rim protection and perimeter scoring, yet too well-coached and too talented to fall low enough for a high lottery pick. Marcus Smart looks promising, Sullinger continues to develop, and Rajon Rondo should be healthy at some point. But the cupboard is being restocked frantically after years of ignoring the need to find and develop young talent.
The San Antonio Spurs have remained relevant for years because they have committed to developing their young players even after achieving success. Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, Kawhi Leonard, among others, were added after the Spurs had already won titles. None of them were picked higher than 15th overall. Avery Bradley and Jared Sullinger are all Ainge can point to, both fell to the Celtics due to injury concerns that have been realized. Bradley has played 205 of a possible 328 games, and while Sullinger played 74 last year, he shot 42% from the field and 27% from behind the arc, both numbers far below what are expected of a starting big man.
In the 6 years since the Celtics won the title, Ainge has drafted 2 promising players and 8 players who never produced in Boston or anywhere else (I'm ignoring Kelly Olynyk, Marcus Smart, and James Young because it is too soon to judge any of them). Ainge supporters will say that half of those picks were second round picks, but finding value late in the draft is what separates a good draft GM from a decent one.
During the lost 2013-2014 season, Brandon Bass averaged 11.1 points and 5.7 boards in 27 minutes a game for a Player Efficiency Rating of 15, exactly league average. He is the only veteran Ainge acquired after 2008 to have even one season with a league average PER, a relatively low baseline for a solid bench player.
Fans and ownership may have overlooked Ainge's questionable drafting and his predilection for bargain veterans that disappoint over the last 6 years, choosing instead to bask in the glow of the franchise's 17th NBA title. But the glow is gone, and the basking must stop now -- Danny Ainge must be held accountable.
The Celtics window got smaller and smaller as Ainge repeatedly paid for past performance instead of finding someone new, and ownership has done the same with him. The former Executive of the Year has not matched his 2007-08 performance since, but his reputation has not changed. Facing another lost season, Celtics fans and ownership must start asking some hard questions about Danny Ainge, or accept another decade-plus stretch of enduring mediocrity on the court and in the front office.
bob
MY NOTE: It is so easy to make your point when you take things out of perspective, isn't it?
1. He writes: "The team's over-reliance on aging, past-their prime supporting players was due partly to Ainge's inability to find players late in the draft that could contribute. J.R Giddens, Semih Erden, Bill Walker, and Lester Hudson, all drafted after the title, found themselves on the end of the bench for the duration of their short stints in Boston". It wasn't because those 3 players were still all-stars and few GMs give up all-stars until they have to? Of those players he cited as evidence of Danny's failure to find players late in the draft were drafted in this order respectively: #30 (last pick in the 1st round), #60 (last pick in the 2nd round), #47, #58. So, he's talking about one 1st round pick (dead last) and 3 that were all the bottom half of the 2nd round as evidence of failure. The draft is a crap shoot when you're picking in the 1st round, it's a crap shoot with dice that are heavily loaded against you in the 2nd. And yeah, Danny "missed" with #55 pick Harangody. Danny's other #55 pick, E'Tuan Moore, is currently playing for Thibs in Chicago. Does that make him another bust, as this guy claims, or is that an example of Danny trading away good players? Pick one and stick with it.
2. He wrote "A quick aside: The Celtics' preferred starting five, consisting of the Big Three, Perkins, and point guard Rajon Rondo, never lost a playoff series when all five were healthy. This point was made repeatedly by Doc Rivers as the team, first in the Eastern Conference when the trade was made, awaited Perkins' return to form". Well, a quick aside back, being able to put a starting lineup that had never lost a playoff series when healthy, and you want to win playoff series, is the best damn reason for continuing to ride that horse until there is a good reason not to I can think of. This guy complains about Danny's "tinkering"? As opposed to what? Completely disassembling a team that never lost when healthy? And didn't Pierce and KG make such a BIG difference last year in Brooklyn's pursuit of a championship, even though they already had a pretty decent core to surround them with?
3. Jujuan Johnson was a miss, but he was Big East DPOY, so it wasn't a big stretch picking him with the #27 (another very late 1st). E'tuan Moore was picked #55. Is this guy really and truly clueless as to why players get selected that far down?
4. Danny "scraped the bargain bin" getting Brandon Bass? Idiot. First of all, he traded Big Baby for Bass. Secondly, does he like Baby better? In case he has lost track of reality because he has been living in his own private castle in the clouds, Glen Davis' career is hanging by a thread, existing almost exclusively upon his previous relationship with Doc and Doc only played him 13.4mpg last year.
5. Ok, I'll give him Fab. That was a big mistake by Danny because Festus Ezeli was still available.
6. So, he uses the Spurs as an example of superior drafting? Can he name another? I doubt it, so that should tell you that the Spurs are the exception, not a norm or even a reasonable standard. None of Parker, Ginobili and Leonard were drafted higher than 15th? When was the last time Danny drafted as high as 15, except for this year? No, instead he looks at 2nd half of the 2nd round picks and wonders why they don't pan out. Big Baby Davis was a #35 pick. If he thinks Bass is "bargain bin" material then he must think more highly of the player Danny traded to get him, right? That would be a #35 pick by Danny. Why point that out when you can talk about tweener, and #55 pick, Luke Harangody?
7. "Ainge supporters will say that half of those picks were second round picks, but finding value late in the draft is what separates a good draft GM from a decent one." Other than San Antonio, which has had the luxury of longterm stability and a very successful playbook to plug players into, name another "good draft GM".
8. "Another decade of-plus stretch of enduring mediocrity on the court and in the front office"? Another decade? When did we complete the first one?
9. He blames Danny because he couldn't convince Flip to take an inferior deal than the one he ended up with from Cleveland? If draft picks have no value around the league, then why was the centerpiece of the Kevin Love trade the #1 pick in the draft? Does he think our #6 pick was more valuable than #1? That's not even cogent within its own intellectual circle-jerk. Flip got two #1s (maybe Bennett will start playing like one) and Thaddeus Young. He took that deal over ones that included more established players (I heard one that had Denver sending Kenneth Faried to Minny). So much for "draft picks have limited value".
10. Sully was considered a steal because he fell to Danny at #21 (meaning that 20 GMs before him didn't see that as a steal) because of back issues and then Sully proceeded to miss 37 games because of those back issues. Proof of Danny's incompetence! By the way, what do you think of Sully now, dumbass, or are the 74 games he played last year and his continuing good health and improved play not relevant? Or is it too relevant, and an effective rebuttal of your BS, and that's why you ignored it?
11. And, of course, as usual, he completely ignores the whole salary cap issue that Danny has had to live with. He wants him to sign high quality, expensive free agents as if the salary cap doesn't exist. I'm not as hung up on salary and contracts as some people are, it's not my money, but I am aware of this minor factor called "reality" that pops its head up from time-to-time in business.
With idiots like this recounting history it's amazing we're not all laboring under the impression that Nazi Germany won the war.
.
6 Years Gone: What has Danny Ainge Done For Boston Lately?
By Ian Mark @TheRealIanMark on Oct 17 2014, 8:00a 52
Robert Mayer-USA TODAY Sports
Examining Danny Ainge's roster moves since the 2008 title, during the traditional "grace period" for championship winning teams.
When your team wins a title, it changes the nature of your fanhood. The losses don't hurt as much, the wins are more expected, and a special place in your heart is carved out for all the players that contributed. The coach and the general manager, regardless of their prior reputations, acquire a certain cachet that only comes with a ring.
Bill Simmons described the concept of a "grace period" as far back as 2004, noting that teams (and their fans) are extremely reluctant to move on from a general manager that brought them a title. Simmons argues that no fan should complain for five years following a title, regardless of how the team does.
While it is difficult to measure fan satisfaction with a general manager, ownership satisfaction is not hard to gauge-- If the owner isn't satisfied, the general manager loses his job. Recent history certainly supports Simmons' claim, as Joe Dumars is the only title-winning general manager in the last 20 seasons forced to end his tenure, and the Detroit Pistons fired him almost ten years after winning their championship in 2004.
The Boston Celtics won the NBA title on June 17th, 2008. It is now October 15, 2014. Danny Ainge's grace period is over. Let's take a quick look back at some of his notable moves while it lasted.
2008-2010: Maintaining a title contender
When Ainge landed Kevin Garnett to pair with Ray Allen and Paul Pierce in the summer of 2007, he expected a three year window for title contention. After winning the title in 2008, the Celtics rightly expected to compete for the title each of the next two years with the same core Big Three. Danny Ainge won Executive of the Year for the 2008 season, and erased his reputation as a tinkerer without a plan. He was now a free-thinker, a contrarian, a mastermind.
He set out to reinforce the team, not to remake it, signing veterans like Stephon Marbury, Rasheed Wallace, Mikki Moore, and Marquis Daniels in an attempt to strengthen the bench. Ainge also took chances on low-risk, high-reward signings like Patrick O'Bryant and Darius Miles, two former top-ten picks.
A 2009-2010 mid-season trade saw Eddie House shipped out in favor of Nate Robinson, exchanging one inconsistent bench gunner for another.
None of these moves panned out as planned, as injuries to Kevin Garnett one year and Kendrick Perkins the next exposed the Celtics' lack of depth in postseason losses to the Orlando Magic and Los Angeles Lakers. Wallace memorably asked out of Game 7 of the Finals loss to the Lakers, citing exhaustion.
The team's over-reliance on aging, past-their prime supporting players was due partly to Ainge's inability to find players late in the draft that could contribute. J.R Giddens, Semih Erden, Bill Walker, and Lester Hudson, all drafted after the title, found themselves on the end of the bench for the duration of their short stints in Boston.
2010-2013: The title window closes
With Kendrick Perkins rehabbing the ACL he tore in Game 6 of the Finals, Ainge for the first time since the Big Three arrived was forced to find a new starting-caliber player to fill in until Perkins returned. He signed Shaquille O'Neal to fill that role. The once dominant O'Neal was 38 years old at the time, and had just come off career lows in scoring and rebounding, averaging 12 points and 6.7 rebounds over 53 games for the Cavaliers. He wouldn't meet either of those marks in Boston, as injuries and weight issues limited him to a measly 37 games, during which he averaged only 9.2 points and 4.8 rebounds. Ainge added another old center in Jermaine O'Neal, but injuries severely limited his playing time while in Boston.
Ainge also struggled again to find bench scoring in free agency, as guards Von Wafer and Delonte West never earned coach Doc Rivers' trust. As the trade deadline approached, Ainge admitted to failing in the off-season by reiterating the team's need for bench scoring.
A quick aside: The Celtics' preferred starting five, consisting of the Big Three, Perkins, and point guard Rajon Rondo, never lost a playoff series when all five were healthy. This point was made repeatedly by Doc Rivers as the team, first in the Eastern Conference when the trade was made, awaited Perkins' return to form.
Ainge swung for the fences, trading Perkins and Nate Robinson to the Oklahoma City Thunder for Jeff Green, the immortal Nenad Krstic, and a 2012 first-round pick from the Clippers. Since this trade, the Celtics have never been considered a favorite to win the title. The trade weakened the Celtic's interior defense, their biggest strength and one advantage over the newly formed Miami Heat superteam, in order to upgrade their backup forward slot.
Ainge also added Troy Murphy before the playoffs, who continued the aging veteran big-man tradition of Wallace and O'Neal by failing to live up his past performance while in Boston. Carlos Arroyo came in to back up Rondo, and he did that, albeit without much production or defensive ability.
As Garnett, Pierce, and Allen declined, Rajon Rondo's ascension helped the Celtics claim a top-4 seed in 2011 and 2012. His play also helped mitigate Ainge's resistance to change the roster dramatically by trading one of his top four players, instead scraping the bargain bin for players who provided average play at best, acquiring Brandon Bass, Sasha Pavlovic, Chris Wilcox, Keyon Dooling, and Greg Stiemsma on team-friendly contracts.
When Ray Allen left the team in free agency after the 2011-2012 season, Ainge attempted to drag a 6th year out of his three year core, bringing in Jason Terry and Courtney Lee to replace Allen's shooting. Avery Bradley's development the year before had moved Allen out of the starting lineup and injected the team with some much needed youth.
Ainge deserves credit for picking Bradley 19th in 2010, but misses on Luke Harangody, Jajuan Johnson, and E'Twaun Moore left Ainge shooting 1-8 on picking prospects since the title. Ainge continued to invest in high-upside young players like center Sean Williams, with minimal returns.
The 2012 draft offered a big opportunity to add more youth to one of the oldest teams in the league, as the Celtics had two first-round picks, courtesy of the Perkins trade. When the trade was made, supporters of the move pointed to the Clippers pick as a move for the future.
Ainge evidently saw the pick the same way, drafting Fab Melo, a developmental prospect at center out of Syracuse. Ainge said Melo would take a few years to develop, but a few years later Melo is already out of the NBA after lasting just one season in Boston. Kris Joseph joined the growing list of second round picks Ainge missed on, while Jared Sullinger was considered the steal of the draft after back issues caused the projected top five pick to fall to the Celtics at 21. But he then missed 37 games and the playoffs due to back issues.
Mickael Pietrus, brought in after Pierce was injured early in the year, never played well offensively and defensively at the same time. Jason Collins signed a one-year deal, and averaged over 1 point a game. Leandro Barbosa, four years removed from his last productive season, played 32 games. Darko Milicic became another buy-low candidate to not pan out for Ainge. Terrence Williams, D.J. White, and Shavlik Randolph all had cups of coffee with the team as Ainge shuffled through retread after retread, searching for a combination that could lift up the anemic bench. Barbosa and Collins were flipped for guard Jordan Crawford, who didn't earn consistent playing time until 2013-2014.
The Celtics finished 41-40 in seventh place in the East. The Knicks handled the Celtics in six games, as the Celtics' once-dominant defense could no longer prop up its ever-flailing offense.
2013-2014: Tank-building
With their disappointing first-round loss in mind, Ainge closed the window on the Big Three once and for all, trading Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, and Jason Terry to the Brooklyn Nets for a bounty of draft picks and salaries to match. The move, in conjunction with Rondo's delayed return from his own ACL tear, signified a decided step back for the Boston Celtics, an admission that a rebuild was necessary.
Ainge brought in Butler coach Brad Stevens to lead the arduous journey back to contention. In a weak draft, Ainge surprisingly moved up three picks to get Kelly Olynyk, whom Ainge himself admitted probably wouldn't be a starter in the NBA.
The Celtics threw away the 2013-2014 season in their quest for a top-five pick. There's no need to rehash the horrors of last year here, but it should be noted that the Celtics ended up with the 6th overall pick.
Ainge has acquired countless draft picks and young players since the end of the Big Three era, and while a few look promising, they have little value around the league. Avery Bradley just signed a 4 year 32 million dollar contract with the Celtics, and he is the best regarded of their young prospects. His obvious talent is undermined by his inability to stay on the court. The most damning indication of this lack of value was Ainge's inability to entice Timberwolves President/GM/Coach/Parking Lot Attendant Flip Saunders with anyone on the roster when the Kevin Love Sweepstakes were underway.
Moving forward, it is unclear what the plan is. The team seems primed for a run at the 10th seed in the lowly East, too young to overcome their obvious lack of rim protection and perimeter scoring, yet too well-coached and too talented to fall low enough for a high lottery pick. Marcus Smart looks promising, Sullinger continues to develop, and Rajon Rondo should be healthy at some point. But the cupboard is being restocked frantically after years of ignoring the need to find and develop young talent.
The San Antonio Spurs have remained relevant for years because they have committed to developing their young players even after achieving success. Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, Kawhi Leonard, among others, were added after the Spurs had already won titles. None of them were picked higher than 15th overall. Avery Bradley and Jared Sullinger are all Ainge can point to, both fell to the Celtics due to injury concerns that have been realized. Bradley has played 205 of a possible 328 games, and while Sullinger played 74 last year, he shot 42% from the field and 27% from behind the arc, both numbers far below what are expected of a starting big man.
In the 6 years since the Celtics won the title, Ainge has drafted 2 promising players and 8 players who never produced in Boston or anywhere else (I'm ignoring Kelly Olynyk, Marcus Smart, and James Young because it is too soon to judge any of them). Ainge supporters will say that half of those picks were second round picks, but finding value late in the draft is what separates a good draft GM from a decent one.
During the lost 2013-2014 season, Brandon Bass averaged 11.1 points and 5.7 boards in 27 minutes a game for a Player Efficiency Rating of 15, exactly league average. He is the only veteran Ainge acquired after 2008 to have even one season with a league average PER, a relatively low baseline for a solid bench player.
Fans and ownership may have overlooked Ainge's questionable drafting and his predilection for bargain veterans that disappoint over the last 6 years, choosing instead to bask in the glow of the franchise's 17th NBA title. But the glow is gone, and the basking must stop now -- Danny Ainge must be held accountable.
The Celtics window got smaller and smaller as Ainge repeatedly paid for past performance instead of finding someone new, and ownership has done the same with him. The former Executive of the Year has not matched his 2007-08 performance since, but his reputation has not changed. Facing another lost season, Celtics fans and ownership must start asking some hard questions about Danny Ainge, or accept another decade-plus stretch of enduring mediocrity on the court and in the front office.
bob
MY NOTE: It is so easy to make your point when you take things out of perspective, isn't it?
1. He writes: "The team's over-reliance on aging, past-their prime supporting players was due partly to Ainge's inability to find players late in the draft that could contribute. J.R Giddens, Semih Erden, Bill Walker, and Lester Hudson, all drafted after the title, found themselves on the end of the bench for the duration of their short stints in Boston". It wasn't because those 3 players were still all-stars and few GMs give up all-stars until they have to? Of those players he cited as evidence of Danny's failure to find players late in the draft were drafted in this order respectively: #30 (last pick in the 1st round), #60 (last pick in the 2nd round), #47, #58. So, he's talking about one 1st round pick (dead last) and 3 that were all the bottom half of the 2nd round as evidence of failure. The draft is a crap shoot when you're picking in the 1st round, it's a crap shoot with dice that are heavily loaded against you in the 2nd. And yeah, Danny "missed" with #55 pick Harangody. Danny's other #55 pick, E'Tuan Moore, is currently playing for Thibs in Chicago. Does that make him another bust, as this guy claims, or is that an example of Danny trading away good players? Pick one and stick with it.
2. He wrote "A quick aside: The Celtics' preferred starting five, consisting of the Big Three, Perkins, and point guard Rajon Rondo, never lost a playoff series when all five were healthy. This point was made repeatedly by Doc Rivers as the team, first in the Eastern Conference when the trade was made, awaited Perkins' return to form". Well, a quick aside back, being able to put a starting lineup that had never lost a playoff series when healthy, and you want to win playoff series, is the best damn reason for continuing to ride that horse until there is a good reason not to I can think of. This guy complains about Danny's "tinkering"? As opposed to what? Completely disassembling a team that never lost when healthy? And didn't Pierce and KG make such a BIG difference last year in Brooklyn's pursuit of a championship, even though they already had a pretty decent core to surround them with?
3. Jujuan Johnson was a miss, but he was Big East DPOY, so it wasn't a big stretch picking him with the #27 (another very late 1st). E'tuan Moore was picked #55. Is this guy really and truly clueless as to why players get selected that far down?
4. Danny "scraped the bargain bin" getting Brandon Bass? Idiot. First of all, he traded Big Baby for Bass. Secondly, does he like Baby better? In case he has lost track of reality because he has been living in his own private castle in the clouds, Glen Davis' career is hanging by a thread, existing almost exclusively upon his previous relationship with Doc and Doc only played him 13.4mpg last year.
5. Ok, I'll give him Fab. That was a big mistake by Danny because Festus Ezeli was still available.
6. So, he uses the Spurs as an example of superior drafting? Can he name another? I doubt it, so that should tell you that the Spurs are the exception, not a norm or even a reasonable standard. None of Parker, Ginobili and Leonard were drafted higher than 15th? When was the last time Danny drafted as high as 15, except for this year? No, instead he looks at 2nd half of the 2nd round picks and wonders why they don't pan out. Big Baby Davis was a #35 pick. If he thinks Bass is "bargain bin" material then he must think more highly of the player Danny traded to get him, right? That would be a #35 pick by Danny. Why point that out when you can talk about tweener, and #55 pick, Luke Harangody?
7. "Ainge supporters will say that half of those picks were second round picks, but finding value late in the draft is what separates a good draft GM from a decent one." Other than San Antonio, which has had the luxury of longterm stability and a very successful playbook to plug players into, name another "good draft GM".
8. "Another decade of-plus stretch of enduring mediocrity on the court and in the front office"? Another decade? When did we complete the first one?
9. He blames Danny because he couldn't convince Flip to take an inferior deal than the one he ended up with from Cleveland? If draft picks have no value around the league, then why was the centerpiece of the Kevin Love trade the #1 pick in the draft? Does he think our #6 pick was more valuable than #1? That's not even cogent within its own intellectual circle-jerk. Flip got two #1s (maybe Bennett will start playing like one) and Thaddeus Young. He took that deal over ones that included more established players (I heard one that had Denver sending Kenneth Faried to Minny). So much for "draft picks have limited value".
10. Sully was considered a steal because he fell to Danny at #21 (meaning that 20 GMs before him didn't see that as a steal) because of back issues and then Sully proceeded to miss 37 games because of those back issues. Proof of Danny's incompetence! By the way, what do you think of Sully now, dumbass, or are the 74 games he played last year and his continuing good health and improved play not relevant? Or is it too relevant, and an effective rebuttal of your BS, and that's why you ignored it?
11. And, of course, as usual, he completely ignores the whole salary cap issue that Danny has had to live with. He wants him to sign high quality, expensive free agents as if the salary cap doesn't exist. I'm not as hung up on salary and contracts as some people are, it's not my money, but I am aware of this minor factor called "reality" that pops its head up from time-to-time in business.
With idiots like this recounting history it's amazing we're not all laboring under the impression that Nazi Germany won the war.
.
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Re: 6 Years Gone: What Has Danny Done For Us Lately?
by kdp59 Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:51 am
I've been debating on commenting on this article here, as I know my opinions are the minority.
I agree with the sediment of the piece on Ainge as a GM.
in the past I have gone back to each draft pick/trade/ FA signing he's made (that's SINCE he took over). the reality is he's made more Bad moves than good ones. Ainge gets bailed out because KG came here.
IF KG had gone elsewhere Ainge would have been long gone from Boston. But he does and should get the credit for putting that team together and winning.
you can't really argue the signing of over the hill vets was one of the teams downfalls. I understand he was working with a coach who doesn't like to play young guys. But sometimes as GM you have to outrank the coach for the good of the team.
I do think Ainge has become better with the draft in the past 3-4 years (even despite the Fab wiff).
Even his "trader Danny" mindset has seen improvement from the early days.
does anyone think that signing both C. Lee AND J. Terry made sense, when you had only KG and Bass as big men?
so there still seems to be brain farts that Ainge has for some reason.
I hope for the best, but I am ALWAYS leery of when we draft and when Ainge starts wheeling and dealing.
I agree with the sediment of the piece on Ainge as a GM.
in the past I have gone back to each draft pick/trade/ FA signing he's made (that's SINCE he took over). the reality is he's made more Bad moves than good ones. Ainge gets bailed out because KG came here.
IF KG had gone elsewhere Ainge would have been long gone from Boston. But he does and should get the credit for putting that team together and winning.
you can't really argue the signing of over the hill vets was one of the teams downfalls. I understand he was working with a coach who doesn't like to play young guys. But sometimes as GM you have to outrank the coach for the good of the team.
I do think Ainge has become better with the draft in the past 3-4 years (even despite the Fab wiff).
Even his "trader Danny" mindset has seen improvement from the early days.
does anyone think that signing both C. Lee AND J. Terry made sense, when you had only KG and Bass as big men?
so there still seems to be brain farts that Ainge has for some reason.
I hope for the best, but I am ALWAYS leery of when we draft and when Ainge starts wheeling and dealing.
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Re: 6 Years Gone: What Has Danny Done For Us Lately?
by beat Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:46 am
OMG Kdp
name a better one that has had the restrictions he has had to deal with?
"Brain farts" really
beat
name a better one that has had the restrictions he has had to deal with?
"Brain farts" really
beat
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Re: 6 Years Gone: What Has Danny Done For Us Lately?
by 112288 Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:09 am
AS A WHOLE THE ARTICLE WAS BOGUS. UNTIL A YEAR AGO WE WERE THE CENTER OF BASKETBALL SO WHAT THE HELL IS THIS WRITER WRITING!
THE ONLY FLAW IN DANNY THAT WAS WORTH A GRAIN OF SALT PERHAPS SOME OF THE SECONDARY PLAYERS HE PICKED UP.
112288
THE ONLY FLAW IN DANNY THAT WAS WORTH A GRAIN OF SALT PERHAPS SOME OF THE SECONDARY PLAYERS HE PICKED UP.
112288
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Re: 6 Years Gone: What Has Danny Done For Us Lately?
by kdp59 Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:33 am
beat wrote:OMG Kdp
name a better one that has had the restrictions he has had to deal with?
"Brain farts" really
beat
I said right off I know I am the minority of Celtic fans when it comes to Ainge. I think many if not MOST Celtic fans think very highly of him and his skills at running an NBA team.
I don't share those lofty thoughts about him however.
I have a list of every move that Ainge has made over the years and as I said..in MY opinion he's been mediocre at best.
I don't agree with everything the writer in the article said or how he presented it.
but many, many Celtic fans forget those years before Garnett, when Ainge would make moves just to make moves (sometimes trading players back and forth from the team).
No, I don't think Ainge walks on water, just because we won one championship with him in control.
I respect those who think Ainge is the best at what he does, but I just disagree.
If Ainge gets us back in the hunt in the next few years, I will change my mind in his skills now...but not in his past level.
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Re: 6 Years Gone: What Has Danny Done For Us Lately?
by beat Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:46 am
Didn't say he walked on water
I asked name me one that has done better given the hand he's been dealt?
And of course there is no answer.... cause anyone you pick I bet I can find a ton of mistakes they made.
beat
I asked name me one that has done better given the hand he's been dealt?
And of course there is no answer.... cause anyone you pick I bet I can find a ton of mistakes they made.
beat
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Re: 6 Years Gone: What Has Danny Done For Us Lately?
by cowens/oldschool Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:35 pm
Pat Riley drafted Beasley over Russell Westbrook.
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Re: 6 Years Gone: What Has Danny Done For Us Lately?
by kdp59 Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:44 pm
so there ya go.
you like Ainge and trust him to make the right moves.
I HOPE he does.
I think in the end that's the only difference.
not trying to convince anyone of my opinions about this at all here, BTW.
I should note, that my general tilt on life is what some call pessimistic ( I say realistic), so that has a bearing on my thoughts of any team/etc.
so you may have already noticed I tend to think of players in a lets say a somewhat lesser light (until proven different) than what most fans may.
for instance I like Pressey but never see him as anything more than an end of the bench type in the NBA.
so perhaps my personal opinion of Ainge's career as head honcho in Boston is swayed that way by my natural tendencies.
but that can make for some interesting discussions at time I hope as well.
you like Ainge and trust him to make the right moves.
I HOPE he does.
I think in the end that's the only difference.
not trying to convince anyone of my opinions about this at all here, BTW.
I should note, that my general tilt on life is what some call pessimistic ( I say realistic), so that has a bearing on my thoughts of any team/etc.
so you may have already noticed I tend to think of players in a lets say a somewhat lesser light (until proven different) than what most fans may.
for instance I like Pressey but never see him as anything more than an end of the bench type in the NBA.
so perhaps my personal opinion of Ainge's career as head honcho in Boston is swayed that way by my natural tendencies.
but that can make for some interesting discussions at time I hope as well.
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Re: 6 Years Gone: What Has Danny Done For Us Lately?
by mrkleen09 Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:25 pm
Monday Morning Quarterback is the easiest position on the field and one that I have very little respect for.
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Re: 6 Years Gone: What Has Danny Done For Us Lately?
by Outside Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:19 pm
kdp,
I understand where you're coming from, but would you feel differently if the "Big Three" era had resulted in two titles? Or three? Because that could have happened.
Sam Presti of OKC is held up as an example of a great GM, and rightly so, but they haven't won a championship yet. Maybe they will, but the best a GM can do is put together a team that is a legitimate championship contender for a five-year window, and how many titles you win during that window is up to player performance, injuries, and luck. Presti has done that.
Ainge has done that, too. We'll see if he can do it again.
I understand where you're coming from, but would you feel differently if the "Big Three" era had resulted in two titles? Or three? Because that could have happened.
Sam Presti of OKC is held up as an example of a great GM, and rightly so, but they haven't won a championship yet. Maybe they will, but the best a GM can do is put together a team that is a legitimate championship contender for a five-year window, and how many titles you win during that window is up to player performance, injuries, and luck. Presti has done that.
Ainge has done that, too. We'll see if he can do it again.
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Re: 6 Years Gone: What Has Danny Done For Us Lately?
by worcester Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:38 pm
Ian Mark does a very effective job proving himself to be an idiot with very low basketball IQ.
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Re: 6 Years Gone: What Has Danny Done For Us Lately?
by NYCelt Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:41 pm
kdp,
I wouldn't hesitate to put your opinion out there, contrary to the pack or not. I'm glad you trust the outcome of your own reasoning, and have strong enough conviction in your thinking, to run counter to the crowd. Like most any fan group, we could stand a little more of that here. We do tend to get a little in-bred and uniform here sometimes!
Regarding your opinion on Ainge and his moves, I think that most often the judgement on a GM's work is best made when he's moved on and we can see the total result start to finish. So, in my opinion on your opinion (like that one?), you may eventually be proven right.
Keep the fresh perspective coming.
Regards
I wouldn't hesitate to put your opinion out there, contrary to the pack or not. I'm glad you trust the outcome of your own reasoning, and have strong enough conviction in your thinking, to run counter to the crowd. Like most any fan group, we could stand a little more of that here. We do tend to get a little in-bred and uniform here sometimes!
Regarding your opinion on Ainge and his moves, I think that most often the judgement on a GM's work is best made when he's moved on and we can see the total result start to finish. So, in my opinion on your opinion (like that one?), you may eventually be proven right.
Keep the fresh perspective coming.
Regards
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Re: 6 Years Gone: What Has Danny Done For Us Lately?
by bobheckler Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:49 pm
NYCelt wrote:kdp,
I wouldn't hesitate to put your opinion out there, contrary to the pack or not. I'm glad you trust the outcome of your own reasoning, and have strong enough conviction in your thinking, to run counter to the crowd. Like most any fan group, we could stand a little more of that here. We do tend to get a little in-bred and uniform here sometimes!
Regarding your opinion on Ainge and his moves, I think that most often the judgement on a GM's work is best made when he's moved on and we can see the total result start to finish. So, in my opinion on your opinion (like that one?), you may eventually be proven right.
Keep the fresh perspective coming.
Regards
Amen.
bob
.
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Re: 6 Years Gone: What Has Danny Done For Us Lately?
by hawksnestbeach Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:18 pm
While I don't agree with the article's thrust (Danny Ainge stinks), I think the writer missed his biggest mistake (IMO): letting Tony Allen go. I say that because if he was determined to keep riding the big 3, plus Rondo, for one more title, we needed TA in key moments - as in the 7-game playoff loss to Miami.
DA has said as much.
Plus, after losing Allen, there was pressure for someone else to back up Pierce, and that someone ended being Jeff Green, which spelled the end of Perk and our interior defense has never recovered.
That said, I think Ainge is a good GM. Often he swings for the fences and whiffs, but he did about as well as anyone could ending the big 3 era by fleecing the Nets. I'm one who didn't want Love in green this year at what seemed the asking price. No sense being pretty good in this League.
The writer avoided analyzing recent arrivals, but on this front - Smart, Sully and Kelly - Ainge looks pretty good, especially when you project a couple of years out.
Another Ainge coup is Brad Stevens; the consummate patient professional to build a contender from the ground up.
Ainge's story is only half-written. Like kdp59, I'm keeping an open mind, but I think he's a second-half kind of guy. Hawk
DA has said as much.
Plus, after losing Allen, there was pressure for someone else to back up Pierce, and that someone ended being Jeff Green, which spelled the end of Perk and our interior defense has never recovered.
That said, I think Ainge is a good GM. Often he swings for the fences and whiffs, but he did about as well as anyone could ending the big 3 era by fleecing the Nets. I'm one who didn't want Love in green this year at what seemed the asking price. No sense being pretty good in this League.
The writer avoided analyzing recent arrivals, but on this front - Smart, Sully and Kelly - Ainge looks pretty good, especially when you project a couple of years out.
Another Ainge coup is Brad Stevens; the consummate patient professional to build a contender from the ground up.
Ainge's story is only half-written. Like kdp59, I'm keeping an open mind, but I think he's a second-half kind of guy. Hawk
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Re: 6 Years Gone: What Has Danny Done For Us Lately?
by k_j_88 Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:09 pm
I don't agree with all of Danny's moves. However, I do think he is one of the best GMs in the game right now. If we want to talk the absolute best GM, I think one has to look at what San Antonio has been doing over the past 15 years.
Over the past few years, Ainge has been making some good trades. He knew when to pull the trigger on moving Garnett, Pierce, and Terry, and in return picked up a hefty haul of assets in the form of draft picks and tradeable pieces in Humphries, Bogans, and Brooks (he sure sucked the Nets in, didn't he?). Several trades later and Ainge has plenty of picks to sweeten deals, and a crop of young, talented players that are developing and can be moved for the next major trade.
Consider the title run in 2008. The stars basically had to align to assemble that roster and end up victorious. Let's be fair and understand the fact that this occurrence is not the kind that is frequent.
I'd have to say the one real weakness that Ainge has pertains to drafting. He hasn't drafted consistently well, and that means that the Celtics' scouting is not quite where it needs to be. This becomes a problem when you're trying to scrape up enough assets to pull in the kind of player you need to move up a few notches. Though I'd say that this year's and last year's draft had more positives than negatives.
Kdp,
I have a lot of respect for your stance on this matter. There is a great deal of logic in what you say. Though, I will have to respectfully disagree to an extent. The focus needs to be on the here and now. Has Ainge been making the right moves over the past couple of years? Are the Celtics in a better position this year than last? I'm answering an unequivocal "yes."
KJ
Over the past few years, Ainge has been making some good trades. He knew when to pull the trigger on moving Garnett, Pierce, and Terry, and in return picked up a hefty haul of assets in the form of draft picks and tradeable pieces in Humphries, Bogans, and Brooks (he sure sucked the Nets in, didn't he?). Several trades later and Ainge has plenty of picks to sweeten deals, and a crop of young, talented players that are developing and can be moved for the next major trade.
Consider the title run in 2008. The stars basically had to align to assemble that roster and end up victorious. Let's be fair and understand the fact that this occurrence is not the kind that is frequent.
I'd have to say the one real weakness that Ainge has pertains to drafting. He hasn't drafted consistently well, and that means that the Celtics' scouting is not quite where it needs to be. This becomes a problem when you're trying to scrape up enough assets to pull in the kind of player you need to move up a few notches. Though I'd say that this year's and last year's draft had more positives than negatives.
Kdp,
I have a lot of respect for your stance on this matter. There is a great deal of logic in what you say. Though, I will have to respectfully disagree to an extent. The focus needs to be on the here and now. Has Ainge been making the right moves over the past couple of years? Are the Celtics in a better position this year than last? I'm answering an unequivocal "yes."
KJ
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Re: 6 Years Gone: What Has Danny Done For Us Lately?
by cowens/oldschool Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:31 pm
I'm glad Ainge stuck with the Big 3 as long as he did, and he did a major fock up that changed that team forever. I'm big on loyalty and the team gave me/us alot of thrills, with alittle luck we could have won 3 titles in a row, and I don't buy we were too old thats why we got injured, look at Thunder right now, are they old? Obviously Tony Allen and the Perk trade was his biggest mistake, we had Miami's number that year if we just stand pat. We had the chemistry and ferocity and Heat hadn't jelled yet, you just can't dismantle that team. It would have been so much easier to find a back up wing, then replace Perk at that point of the season and at that point in the careers of Pierce and KG. As bad as that trade was, again if we had some luck, health, we still would have beaten Miami in 12 with AB and Jeff Green, refs gave Heat that series in game 2, even Miami writers were saying how bad and unfair that non call on Rondo was. I can't blame Danny for holding on one year too long, that 13 team with Ray would have been so much better, as Ray was the key ingredient in Heats drive to the title that year with his arsenal of big shots. Keep that force in Green and take it away from Miami and Lebron's legacy is alot different right now, especially if we don't get robbed in 12. Losing Ray wasn't necessarily Danny's fault, but losing TA then Perk definitely was.
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Re: 6 Years Gone: What Has Danny Done For Us Lately?
by Sam Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:21 am
Any article containing the words "Celtics" and "tank" is a bunch of horse manure a far as I'm concerned. Danny positioned the team to rebuild. The team is now rebuilding. End of story.
Sam
Sam
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Re: 6 Years Gone: What Has Danny Done For Us Lately?
by dboss Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:48 pm
Considering all that DA has already added and the impessive number of future picks it is only fair to let this process continue.
The article is selectively critical.
Dboss
The article is selectively critical.
Dboss
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