The Myopia of Aging Superstars

by **bobheckler** Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:53 pm

The Celtics are an old team. Not from top to bottom, of course, but many of the key players are. Injuries occur more frequently. They take longer to heal. Minutes must go down to save them for the playoffs but they can't because of the injury list and eventually, they come a cropper. Then, in the offseason, they sign a 35-year old Rasheed Wallace to a three year contract. The old Celtic team I was referring to was last year's team, the one that ran out of gas due to injuries and age and yet, when given the offseason to retool, they locked in an aging superstar for years well beyond all but a few players' shelflives. Why?

They did it because the other aging superstars on the team wanted him. When management asked which free agent they wanted, the 3 Amigos put Sheed at the top of their list. When the pitch was given to Sheed, the 3 Amigos were there, in the room, to add their weight to the pitch. Keeping the 3 Amigos happy is, to say the least, important to Danny and Doc and Wyc. However, their primary responsibility isn't to the core players, but to the franchise and the fans.

The ego and competitive spirit that drives these players to become the superstars they are is also the ego and competitive spirit that refuses to let them accept their bodies will soon turn on them, whether they like it and are ready for it or not. Contemplating retirement on their body's terms and not on their brain's terms is something they may not wish to do. Accepting the premise that a player their age shouldn't be offered a multi-year deal might be something that they, psychologically, might want to confront and internalize. Instead, you make the Hallelujah Chorus get louder by adding singers.

D-Fish isn't the player he used to be and yet he still talks about playing until he's 40. I'm sure all of us could come up with a list of top players in every sport who didn't know when it was time to go and lingered too long. For every Bill Russell, who went out on top and still looking good, couldn't we find a dozen Moses Malones? Who wants to walk away from a game they love, as well as a staggering payday, before it's abundantly obvious they must? By then, unfortunately for the team and their fans, it's too late.

Legs are the first thing to go. You lose a 1/2 step on defense and a little height off the elevation of your jumpshot. Jumpshooters, like Ray and Sheed, pay the price of age before a player who plays more inside does. Watch the 3pt competition at the All-Star break. The players who disappear in the later rounds are the ones who shoot more jumpshots than standing shots. They are the same shots from the same locations as the previous rounds, it's their legs that fail them by stealing an inch off the top of their leaps, which changes the shot.

I apologize for all this pop psychology, I'm really not a doom-and-gloomer (although I suspect jeb thinks I am), but it has been weighing on me since the Sheed signing (although I've tried to hope for the best and put a happy face on it). It got a little heavier with the rumors of the Ellis-for-Allen trade and is now even heavier after the Laker game.

Hopefully, when Daniels comes back we'll be able to back off Ray's and Paul's minutes. Maybe we'll sign a true point guard which will relieve Ray of virtually all of his ballhandling duties, which take energy to do. Hopefully, Davis (aka "Uno Uno", like that's an improvement over "Big Baby"!) will get his rhythm back soon and Sheed's minutes can be cut back too. Considering he's only averaging 24 mpg this season, though, how much more can we cut him back? If he's struggling (41% fg, 30% from 3) playing 24 mpg, what will he look like next year and the year after?

Ok, load up the catapults and howitzers and fire away. Regardless, Go Celts.

bob

by **dboss** Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:39 pm

Bobc

I agree with your assessment.

The Wallace situation is baffling. He still can help this team but it requires that he change the way he plays. If the first pass comes to him and he is behind the arc he will launch the shot even if it is early in the shot clock. I like his post defense but his rotations on defense leaves much to be desired and honestly I just think he is to slow to make the proper rotations.

With the number of technical fouls piling up he will probably be suspended before the end of the month. Given what I have seen from him I do think his signing was a mistake. Looking at both sides of the equation it seems he hurts us as much as he helps us. The signing was made because (1) we needed a legit BU for KG and (2) he came with high recommendations for the big three. The length of this deal will come back and haunt the Celtics before all is said and done,

With respect to the age factor, it can be be measured by the amount of energy that is left down the stretch when we need a big rebound or a steal or have to expend a lot of energy to make a key defensuive stop, run an offensive play where we work it through all the options. Having an old guy on any team should not deter them from winning but the Celtics have too many over 30 players that are noticeably on the decline and it is happening at the same time to all of them.

I am mostly concerned with PP and RA becasue they play significant minutes. We may never know if JR giddens or a Bill Walker can help this team becasue Doc will not play them.

Getting Daniels back should help provided TA does not slide down in the rotation minutes. Ta and Rondo are the two high energy guys on the team.

In sum, Doc justs needs to pull back on the minutes being played by the older players. I also feel they really need a BU PG. I would also like to see Williams get in the game.

At this point I honestly do not know if the trends we are seeing will continue or if the Celtics will be able to establish themselves again.

I am hoping for the best but That glimmer of light that I see could either be that of the setting sun or the morning dawn.

dboss

by **Sam** Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:02 pm

Bob and Dboss,

I've thought for a long time that Sheed could well be the key to the Celtics' championship chances. And also that it could go either way.

My perspective is that, on defense, he's better one-on-one than as a help defender. He doesn't possess the quickness to recover as required in the help scheme. It could be that Thibs will have to modify the defensive approach for the bench accordingly. Fortunately, with Daniels in there, the bench is reasonably quick and able, possessing (I believe) the potential to adapt well to more of a one-on-one concept by the end of the season.

Ray may be the second most pivotal figure in the Celtics' prospects. I have no idea how much of his shooting woes are a function of age or minutes or focus on defense or any of the other possibilities being thrown out. But I do believe one thing. He has been the Celtic most called upon to play a dual role this season. He's been a full-time member of the starting five and very often nearly a full-time member of the bench! In virtually every single game! Guarding big-time scorers much of the time!

He's become the "everyman" on the team. Clearly, Ray's burden needs to be reduced! Not just to rest him but also to allow him to focus on fewer responsibilities.

Given Doc's propensity for two units, one of the problems I see is that the Celtics don't really have two units. They have a starting unit and a partial bench unit. Most of the time, they're paired with Ray (which works well) or Pierce (which doesn't work well); and much of the time, they're paired with Rondo (which certainly worked in spades yesterday).

I realize that Rondo is an indispensable element of this team; but I'm not as worried as others about his playing dual roles. So I don't particularly care if he spends time with the bench, although I'd certainly be happy if a serviceable backup PG were present to create a three-man bench guard rotation with Tony and Eddie. I'd like to see the three-man bench front court manned primarily by Sheed, Baby and Daniels.

I think that, with a couple of solid months of playing together under their belts, that bench could at least hold its own with any other bench and could quite likely be at an advantage much of the time.

In other words, as long as they're going with two units, and as long as they have plenty of quality personnel, make them two independent units. And spend the remainder of the season making certain an independent bench comes as close as possible to producing what it could have achieved wearing out Ray (and, to a much lesser extent, Rondo).

If Ray's truly in decline (and my own opinion is that's an overrated and overly simplistic assessment), at least focusing him on fewer responsibilities should help him to cope. If fewer responsibilities help him return to form, so much the better. In either case, it's a plus for the Celtics, compared with the situation so far this season.

I now feel so strongly about the advantages of the sanctity of the two units (under the circumstances) that, if Perk or KG gets into foul trouble, I'd rather see Scal or Williams filling in so the bench doesn't get disrupted. If Ray or Paul needs to sit, it probably means giving extra minutes to Daniels and/or Tony, which doesn't bother me a lot. If Rondo goes down, frankly there's trouble in River City any way one looks at it.

The sum total of everything I'm saying is that what's happening right now, at a time when the team is scrambling to recapture cohesion, is nothing compared with the importance of what happens after the all-star break. And I do believe that, even if I haven't put my finger on the perfect solutions, the nearly unprecedented versatility and talent on this team are sufficient (1) to identify reasonable solutions and (2) to put them into practice repeatedly over the rest of the season.

The unfortunate thing is that so many people assume the alleged fatigue and effects of age they're claiming to see are the causes of Celtics problems, when there's every possibility that they're more the effects of the discontinuity and resultant dysfunction and roster truncation that have haunted the Celtics all season long. Those effects can be addressed with a reasonable amount of roster continuity.

Sam

by **dboss** Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:49 pm

Sam

That was a very thoughtfull post.

I recall one year when the Russell led Celtics finished 4th and still won the Championship. They were an old team but still managed to do the improbable.

At this point I just need to see how the team comes together with KG getting stronger and Daniels coming back. These are veteran players that shoul;d be able to gel sooner rather than later. But the lack of continuity certainly has played a role in their current situation.

Ray definitely needs to play less minutes becasue he may be the one player who can carry the team to another title but only if his legs are fresh and his stroke is pure.

On my way home. game on at the Wiz!

dboss

by **spike** Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:05 pm

These games were a good test of playoff readiness and some of the Celtics failed miserably, mostly the Big Three, or, as I like to call them now, the Pig Three.

All of them need to spend more time on the bench resting up. This attitude that, even at 60 %, KG is preferable to Williams and El Grande Bebe, is catering to a big pig ego. The bench needs playing time, even if it means the team loses some games. They're losing them anyway.

If Ray hasn't lost his shooting touch, then it's a statistical probability that he'll shoot somewhere near his career average over the course of the season, meaning he's going to have a great second half.

Paul needs to get back to Ubuntu-land. Either he's hurt and isn't saying so, or, he's lost a step. Paul's first step to the basket used to be lightning quick, he blew by defenders like they weren't even there. That isn't happening anymore but apparently he thinks he still has it.

The problem is that Paul's still a flake and he's been flaking out since the post-Xmas road trip. It seems as though every season he goes thru a phase where he's more likely than not to dribble the ball off his foot or crash into a defender who's been waiting there for ten seconds. For example, Ricky Davis drew the first charge of his career against Paul last week. That's baaad. Did it affect the captain? Flake no.

In one of these games, after a missed call, Paul started jogging along complaining to the referee while the other team raced up the court. His push-off foul on Artest in the final minute Sunday was gold-plated, hall-of-flame flakiness.

He makes an even greater egregious mistake every time one of his teammates takes a shot. Instead of boxing out, Paul turns away from the basket and drifts into the flat looking for the outlet pass. You have to wonder what goes thru his head when he sees the guy he's supposed to be blocking out getting the offensive rebound.

Lastly, the team has a split personality thanks to Paul. When Rajon is allowed to be the point guard, they are far more effective than when Paul selfishly looks to be the point forward. They need a playmaker, a quarterback, not a ball hogging, aging hero-baller. They began the season by working this out and now they're back to square one.

Even then, despite this appalling lack of focus by the captain, they came thisclose to winning all three games.

"Baby, can I change my mind?
I would like to start all over again."

by **bobheckler** Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:18 pm

dboss wrote:Bobc

I agree with your assessment.

The Wallace situation is baffling. He still can help this team but it requires that he change the way he plays. If the first pass comes to him and he is behind the arc he will launch the shot even if it is early in the shot clock. I like his post defense but his rotations on defense leaves much to be desired and honestly I just think he is to slow to make the proper rotations.

With the number of technical fouls piling up he will probably be suspended before the end of the month. Given what I have seen from him I do think his signing was a mistake. Looking at both sides of the equation it seems he hurts us as much as he helps us. The signing was made because (1) we needed a legit BU for KG and (2) he came with high recommendations for the big three. The length of this deal will come back and haunt the Celtics before all is said and done,

With respect to the age factor, it can be be measured by the amount of energy that is left down the stretch when we need a big rebound or a steal or have to expend a lot of energy to make a key defensuive stop, run an offensive play where we work it through all the options. Having an old guy on any team should not deter them from winning but the Celtics have too many over 30 players that are noticeably on the decline and it is happening at the same time to all of them.

I am mostly concerned with PP and RA becasue they play significant minutes. We may never know if JR giddens or a Bill Walker can help this team becasue Doc will not play them.

Getting Daniels back should help provided TA does not slide down in the rotation minutes. Ta and Rondo are the two high energy guys on the team.

In sum, Doc justs needs to pull back on the minutes being played by the older players. I also feel they really need a BU PG. I would also like to see Williams get in the game.

At this point I honestly do not know if the trends we are seeing will continue or if the Celtics will be able to establish themselves again.

I am hoping for the best but That glimmer of light that I see could either be that of the setting sun or the morning dawn.

dboss

dboss,

That was a very well written response. Thanks.

btw, I'm bobh, not bobc. I've met bobc, he's a heckuva feller, there's no need to insult him so.

bobH

by **bobheckler** Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:21 pm

Sam wrote:Bob and Dboss,

I've thought for a long time that Sheed could well be the key to the Celtics' championship chances. And also that it could go either way.

My perspective is that, on defense, he's better one-on-one than as a help defender. He doesn't possess the quickness to recover as required in the help scheme. It could be that Thibs will have to modify the defensive approach for the bench accordingly. Fortunately, with Daniels in there, the bench is reasonably quick and able, possessing (I believe) the potential to adapt well to more of a one-on-one concept by the end of the season.

Ray may be the second most pivotal figure in the Celtics' prospects. I have no idea how much of his shooting woes are a function of age or minutes or focus on defense or any of the other possibilities being thrown out. But I do believe one thing. He has been the Celtic most called upon to play a dual role this season. He's been a full-time member of the starting five and very often nearly a full-time member of the bench! In virtually every single game! Guarding big-time scorers much of the time!

He's become the "everyman" on the team. Clearly, Ray's burden needs to be reduced! Not just to rest him but also to allow him to focus on fewer responsibilities.

Given Doc's propensity for two units, one of the problems I see is that the Celtics don't really have two units. They have a starting unit and a partial bench unit. Most of the time, they're paired with Ray (which works well) or Pierce (which doesn't work well); and much of the time, they're paired with Rondo (which certainly worked in spades yesterday).

I realize that Rondo is an indispensable element of this team; but I'm not as worried as others about his playing dual roles. So I don't particularly care if he spends time with the bench, although I'd certainly be happy if a serviceable backup PG were present to create a three-man bench guard rotation with Tony and Eddie. I'd like to see the three-man bench front court manned primarily by Sheed, Baby and Daniels.

I think that, with a couple of solid months of playing together under their belts, that bench could at least hold its own with any other bench and could quite likely be at an advantage much of the time.

In other words, as long as they're going with two units, and as long as they have plenty of quality personnel, make them two independent units. And spend the remainder of the season making certain an independent bench comes as close as possible to producing what it could have achieved wearing out Ray (and, to a much lesser extent, Rondo).

If Ray's truly in decline (and my own opinion is that's an overrated and overly simplistic assessment), at least focusing him on fewer responsibilities should help him to cope. If fewer responsibilities help him return to form, so much the better. In either case, it's a plus for the Celtics, compared with the situation so far this season.

I now feel so strongly about the advantages of the sanctity of the two units (under the circumstances) that, if Perk or KG gets into foul trouble, I'd rather see Scal or Williams filling in so the bench doesn't get disrupted. If Ray or Paul needs to sit, it probably means giving extra minutes to Daniels and/or Tony, which doesn't bother me a lot. If Rondo goes down, frankly there's trouble in River City any way one looks at it.

The sum total of everything I'm saying is that what's happening right now, at a time when the team is scrambling to recapture cohesion, is nothing compared with the importance of what happens after the all-star break. And I do believe that, even if I haven't put my finger on the perfect solutions, the nearly unprecedented versatility and talent on this team are sufficient (1) to identify reasonable solutions and (2) to put them into practice repeatedly over the rest of the season.

The unfortunate thing is that so many people assume the alleged fatigue and effects of age they're claiming to see are the causes of Celtics problems, when there's every possibility that they're more the effects of the discontinuity and resultant dysfunction and roster truncation that have haunted the Celtics all season long. Those effects can be addressed with a reasonable amount of roster continuity.

Sam

sam,

The whole "platooning" thing depends upon having two healthy units. We haven't had that in a long time.

Now that Tony's back and Uno/Uno (yuck!) is back, all we'll need is Daniels back to be able to do it.

Bob

by **bobheckler** Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:24 pm

sam,

Also, I'd like to make clear that I'm not saying that Ray is in decline due to age. He is being asked to do more than other players and he is responding. HOWEVER, he seems to be lagging. Reducing his duties might very well produce the quality upgrade he can still deliver IF he is not overtasked.

bob

by **bobc33** Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:56 pm

bobheckler wrote:
dboss wrote:Bobc

I agree with your assessment.

The Wallace situation is baffling. He still can help this team but it requires that he change the way he plays. If the first pass comes to him and he is behind the arc he will launch the shot even if it is early in the shot clock. I like his post defense but his rotations on defense leaves much to be desired and honestly I just think he is to slow to make the proper rotations.

With the number of technical fouls piling up he will probably be suspended before the end of the month. Given what I have seen from him I do think his signing was a mistake. Looking at both sides of the equation it seems he hurts us as much as he helps us. The signing was made because (1) we needed a legit BU for KG and (2) he came with high recommendations for the big three. The length of this deal will come back and haunt the Celtics before all is said and done,

With respect to the age factor, it can be be measured by the amount of energy that is left down the stretch when we need a big rebound or a steal or have to expend a lot of energy to make a key defensuive stop, run an offensive play where we work it through all the options. Having an old guy on any team should not deter them from winning but the Celtics have too many over 30 players that are noticeably on the decline and it is happening at the same time to all of them.

I am mostly concerned with PP and RA becasue they play significant minutes. We may never know if JR giddens or a Bill Walker can help this team becasue Doc will not play them.

Getting Daniels back should help provided TA does not slide down in the rotation minutes. Ta and Rondo are the two high energy guys on the team.

In sum, Doc justs needs to pull back on the minutes being played by the older players. I also feel they really need a BU PG. I would also like to see Williams get in the game.

At this point I honestly do not know if the trends we are seeing will continue or if the Celtics will be able to establish themselves again.

I am hoping for the best but That glimmer of light that I see could either be that of the setting sun or the morning dawn.

dboss

dboss,

That was a very well written response. Thanks.

btw, I'm bobh, not bobc. I've met bobc, he's a heckuva feller, there's no need to insult him so.

bobH

I resemble that! I took being confused for you BobH as a compliment.

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