It’s time for Celtics to give James Young and Dwight Powell a chance

BOSTON GLOBE

GARY WASHBURN | ON BASKETBALL


The Celtics have been intensifying James Young’s workouts in practice.

By Gary WashburnGLOBE STAFF  DECEMBER 02, 2014

ATLANTA — Lost in Brad Stevens’s media address following Sunday’s confounding 111-89 Celtics loss to the San Antonio Spurs was his decision to insert two rookies with just more than four minutes left to perhaps spark a rally.

James Young and Dwight Powell have either been sitting at the end of the bench this season or playing in the NBADL, and are considered ill prepared for the NBA moment but working arduously to get there. Following nearly every practice, Powell and Young, teamed together like cadets in basic training, work with the coaching staff.

In Memphis last week, the two participated in a drill that required them to sprint from 3-point line to 3-point line, stop immediately, take a pass, and drain a jumper. The coaching staff counted how many makes and ended the drill when the duo reached 20.

Stevens appeared rejuvenated working with the young guys, as if he were preparing for a Horizon League contest against Wright State while at Butler. He seemed invigorated by their enthusiasm.

And now is the time to test these newcomers as Stevens searches for answers to the team’s fourth-quarter woes. The Celtics enter Tuesday’s game with the respectable Atlanta Hawks with one win in the past 24 days, against 0-16 Philadelphia. The past three weeks have been miserable, leaving the ever-encouraging Stevens to ponder changes.

He already benched Kelly Olynyk for Tyler Zeller, who responded with 7 points and 10 rebounds in 23 minutes Sunday. Now it’s time to take a long look at Powell and especially Young, who may be the Celtics’ most intriguing rookie since Rajon Rondo.

Stevens is fielding more and more questions about Young and his readiness to play. Here was his most recent response.

“He’s got to unseat one of the 10 in front of him,” Stevens said. “That’s the way I look at it. And that’s the way I think for us is the right way to look at it. If he does that, he will have grown, progressed, and will be ready to make that contribution.”

So the question is whether the Celtics can base Young’s potential effectiveness solely on practice performance. And how much does scoring 23 points and jacking up 19 shots in an NBADL game really improve his game?

There are a handful of teams in the Celtics’ situation, taking on the dual roles of improving as a franchise and developing younger players for future prosperity. Of the four notable one-and-dones taken ahead of Young in the June draft, all of them are garnering more playing time and gaining more experience than Young.

Jabari Parker, the leading candidate for Rookie of the Year, is averaging 29.6 minutes for the Milwaukee Bucks. First overall pick Andrew Wiggins averages 28.7 for Minnesota. Zach LaVine logs 20.4 for the Timberwolves. Aaron Gordon plays 15 minutes for the Orlando Magic, while international prospect Dante Exum is registering 18.4 for Utah.

They are all getting valuable on-the-job training, making mistakes in real NBA situations, not practice time, and certainly not in the NBADL. Young may have received more polish staying at Kentucky for his sophomore year and playing with perhaps 10 future NBA players than launching 3-pointers for Maine.

Young can shoot. He appears unfazed by the NBA spotlight and he gives the club much-needed athleticism. He began his rookie season two steps behind his contemporaries because of a car accident that caused him to miss summer league and a hamstring injury that cost him all but one game of the preseason.

But it’s time to give Young some meaningful minutes to determine if he’s ready to become a contributor.

“I would say right now, their opportunities have to continue to be taken out of practice,” Stevens said of Young and Powell. “They have to be ready. You never know. You’re one injury away on the perimeter or the forward spot from those guys to be playing. And I think that’s part of the reason why you have so many guys on your roster. It’s why the young guys can’t be surprised when their opportunity comes. You’ve got to be ready.”

LaVine is a good comparison with Young. He was taken four selections prior to Young by Minnesota. He played just 13 total minutes through five games before Flip Saunders mixed him into the rotation. Minnesota is painfully young with LaVine, Wiggins, and Anthony Bennett, but they also have veterans such as Kevin Martin, Thaddeus Young, Ricky Rubio, and Nikola Pekovic who want to win immediately.

The ankle injury to Rubio allowed Saunders to play LaVine at point guard, his projected position. LaVine was considered by scouts the furthest away from contribution of any of the one-and-dones. His potential was vast, his experience, even at the college level, was minuscule.

In the 10 games LaVine has received considerable minutes, he has scored in double figures three times, including a 28-point outing Friday against the Lakers. Two nights later, he went scoreless in 11 minutes against Portland.

Rookies are going to be rookies.

It’s time for the Celtics to give Young an opportunity to make mistakes, follow brilliant games with forgettable ones, and compete for a rotation spot, showing the potential that encouraged the Celtics to nab him despite being one of the younger players in the draft.

If this year is indeed about development as much as winning, then the Celtics can’t afford to ice Young unless the veterans in front of him are productive and the Celtics are notching victories. So far through 14 games, neither is happening consistently enough to keep Young watching from the bench.

It’s Young’s time.

112288 - IT CANNOT HAPPEN SOON ENOUGH! WAKE UP BRAD!

Not much argument with Washburn on this one, especially after another second half sleeper, this time against the Hawks.

There is no downside to giving Young some minutes outside of garbage time.

it might be nice to see Smart, Bradley, Young, Sully and Kelly get big minutes together, just to see how good or bad they are.

might happen in the second half of the year.

right now......I'm all for going all in with youth.

trade all the vets for whatever young assets we can get.

I guess the popular theory is that, if Brad throws a bunch of young guys together over extended periods, they'll gradually get a lot better through the experience. Maybe that would be true. Perhaps, in the absence of a proven floor general among the group, it wouldn't matter that the bigs of the combination would have to assume the roles of facilitators. Perhaps the young guys would magically be empowered to improve outside the "womb" of more experienced players. Perhaps there would be no risk of beatdowns that would damage the psyches of the young guys (as if Kelly needed more damage to his psyche right now). Perhaps, in combination with one another, they could magically master the motion/uptempo offense Brad seems intent on applying. Perhaps they could band together to fashion a successful defensive team style that has eluded the rotation players.

Perhaps Brad, as seriously frustrated as he seems to be becoming, would say something like, "Screw it; let's see what happens by packaging the young guys for big minutes and hoping it doesn't lead to a psychological meltdown for the entire team. I'll just forget about working to make the team as a whole as collectively capable as possible so we can really see what our potential as a team is...in favor of attempting to weigh the potential of a combination of young guys operating outside the aforementioned 'womb' of experience."

Sam

Any good team is a balance of young and old. Trading all the vets is terrible idea, as even when they are not playing much - a sprinkling of maturity is vital to young players becoming seasoned veterans.

mrkleen09 wrote:Any good team is a balance of young and old.  Trading all the vets is terrible idea, as even when they are not playing much - a sprinkling of maturity is vital to young players becoming seasoned veterans.

Serious question

When does one pass from being a "newbee" to being a "vet"?



My answer:

Years? Playing time? yeah both factors no doubt.

Probably several factors beyond just years. This team is rather young to begin with and really don't have too many I would call veterans. Sort of like they are saying in the college football poll fiasco.........the old "eye test"

At what time did a player like Bird become a vet?....his second game?

beat

To me, anyone that is professional in their behavior, who trains hard, can learn a playbook, shows up to meetings on time and well dressed - is a professional. I dont think playing time comes into it as much as the aforementioned.

Gerald Wallace, Rondo, Jeff Green are veterans. So was Scal, Joelle Anthony and Jason Collins.

Every good team needs balance.

mrkleen09 wrote:Any good team is a balance of young and old.  Trading all the vets is terrible idea, as even when they are not playing much - a sprinkling of maturity is vital to young players becoming seasoned veterans.

I agree. Getting rid of vets and going with young guys is what the Sixers are doing. They have only one guy they have on their roster that I would consider a source of veteran leadership -- Luc Mbah a Moute -- and he's a journeyman who has been on bad teams and has been in only 11 playoff games in six prior seasons.

Boston has gone through a difficult November. Losing leads in multiple games is frustrating, but it's part of the growing process. Give them some time before dumping everything. Young and Powell aren't the answer. If you think they'll be good at some point, fine, but let them develop at their own pace. Throwing untested rookies to the wolves could irreparably harm their confidence and make fans wish for the good old days of having leads to squander.

Being patient is difficult, but that's where things are.

Mrkleen and Outside. Will you marry me?

Sam

I wouldn't dump the vets, but ours is the ideal situation to start selectively playing the youth.

I've always thought that any non-contending team that allows young players to sit, or, worse yet, sends them to the NBADL without some prime game time is being very foolish.

There's no reason not to take a look at Young right now.  Hurt his confidence?  If he's made it this far and he loses his confidence playing against the vets now, he's going to get tripped up by the smallest of things later.  Better we find out where they are now in terms of playing ability and mental toughness. Taking a beating now, if it's going to happen, is far better for him and us in the long run.  He's played competitive ball at some of the highest amateur levels; if he hasn't learned to build his game off of setbacks he's never going to be much of a competitor and would have to have been lucky to make it to NCAA D1 play.

You might not want to put a whole group of rookies on the floor together, but you absolutely do want to take someone drafted in the first round and give them minutes with 3 or 4 veteran regulars and see where they are.  Then you have a base line to judge from.  You get to see what their strengths and weaknesses are in a game situation, not some practice session.  Once you've looked at their ability level you can safely judge where they belong, but you can't just guess without having them on the floor in a game.

If they're behind the mark in shooting or rebounding or whatever, or if they prove to be easily taken out of their game mentally, then you know what to work on and if it needs to be with the big club or the NBADL.

By the looks of things, Powell is not going to stick in the NBA, so you don't bother with him that much.  Young, however, is a first round pick on a non-contending team that's rebuilding.  You need to put him into the game to see what he can do and truly know where to send him for development and for how long.  Perhaps 70% of the current roster is simply placeholders; there is no risk to future chemistry or continuity if they sit for 20 minutes here and there while we see what we've got.

NYCelt,

Sticking Young with a bunch of other kids rather than within what I call a veteran "womb" is all I was concerned about. That kind of wholesale toss to the wolves could be a recipe for disaster.

Brad has already demonstrated his willingness to give considerable minutes to a rookie he feels is ready to use them productively. Although we're all hoping for the best, Young has not been noted for his defensive skills. Whether playing him on any combination of players on a team that's giving up 108 ppg will heighten either his confidence or his skills in the defensive end is a matter of conjecture. Offensively, in his preseason game and his 16 minutes so far during the season, he certainly seems to have offensive credentials that would warrant giving him a look.

Sam

Sam,

"Veteran Womb."  You may have something there.

Good description for careful, situational, substitution of a young player into a game with veterans guiding the way.

Could also describe a woman post child-birth, or a military mom upon her retirement from active duty.

Regards

NYCelt,

Sam's point about having Young and Powell play without veterans is what I meant. I'm fine with them getting some playing time, as long as it's with the right group around them, and that includes veterans. I don't have any faith that dumping all the vets and playing Powell and Young with a bunch of other young guys is a recipe for success.

NTCelt,

When I first typed "veteran womb," I typed "veteran bomb" in error. For a brief moment, I felt maybe I should leave the "bomb" part in if it would be a way of shaking the Celtics out of their fourth quarter swoons.

At least last night, they may have swooned but didn't lose consciousness entirely. So they've got that going for them.

With Smart being activated, Powell wasn't dressed last night. I suspect he may soon be among the Maniacs for more than just a game or two.

Sam

Objectively speaking, the C's have little to lose by playing James Young some decent minutes.

He has talent, and that talent needs to be nurtured to flourish.


KJ

KJ,

One problem is, whose minutes should Young take? How about Smart's. Isn't his rapid development a greater priority than Young's. Jeff Green's? They need him to develop as much consistency as possible and maybe even to ripen into a go to guy. Avery Bradley? His defense (although I believe it has dropped off some) is needed on an all-too-defenseless team. Perhaps some minutes could be shaved off Evan Turner's and/or Marcus Thornton's time. Although I believe they're both gradually carving out roles as sixth men on the team, perhaps two of those aren't needed.

Sam

I like the idea of playing Young more minutes, but I think that there is still plenty of time this year to achieve those developmental minutes.

The Celtics have had a very difficult early-season schedule and playing the veterans more than the young guys made plenty of sense if only to showcase some of the vets for possible trade value enhancement, but the big reason that the veterans played almost exclusively was to see where the team is as far as how they fit into the league's power structure.

To this point, with the tough schedule, it appears that the team is not very high on the league's power structure, but playing a guy like Young major minutes right now is not likely to change their appearance as being able to be competitive in the league. Also, giving him tons of minutes now would only seem to be placing too much pressure on him to be the "savior".

I would suggest that Stevens and Ainge wait until in mid January before inserting Young to a position in the rotation. By that time the team will have been able to go through a less intense schedule for about 6 weeks and might be able to balance itself with the guys who are currently playing the majority of minutes. If at that point they are still only winning 33% of their games putting Young (and possibly Powell) in position to play more will be a good idea.

Clyde,

Especially if the Celts wind up as sellers in the trade market. I hope they don't, because it would mean an even longer rebuilding period.

Sam