Loses, lack of effort and being "tired" in the NBA

I certainly do not get to see every game played in the NBA ever night, week, month or year, but do often hear of teams losing games when they do not "show up" to play, coming off a tough game, second game of back to backs, etc.

It really bothers me to hear these excuses EVERY time I hear any one of them. I would much rather just have players, coaches and reporters say that the "other team just beat the crap out of us tonight" than use the "tired" excuse.

From my basketball playing experience (which was about a zillion miles from the NBA level) I never had a problem playing on back to back days. In fact, in the summers, we played every day for hours and hours each day. I never remember any of the guys who played with me ever not "showing up" or not playing hard because they were "tired". I am sure that many of you would have also have similar memories of playing every day as well.

I am sure that just about every guy in the NBA also grew up doing the same exact thing-playing every day and playing all day every day.

These guys are great athletes in pretty much the prime of their athletic lives and are professional entertainers who are paid to play 82 games a year. Not having a good game because the team is "tired" just does not cut it for me. I do not even like reading a reporter's column when the "tired" angle is brought forth.

I do realize that they do a lot of traveling, eat at crazy times, play at a time of day when we are probably in our pajamas, etc, etc, but they also do not have to be at work at 7 or 8 AM the next day either. They also have comfy flights, top notch training coaches, five months off from their 'work' routine, etc.

wide

To get ones self "up" for every game is perhaps quite difficult, I cannot equate anything I've ever done athletically to playing an 82 game schedule. I do know the sports that I did,there were times I was just FLAT, I felt good, had trained OK and rested properly and then come the time for the race and nothing, my best sport was running and even though I might beat a kid one time pretty good............I do remember getting it handed to me later. (by the same kid)

These pros can train be in great shape and have all of the advantages of their given profession but..........the six inches between the ears hasn't changed in a long time and if your mind is not "with it" you can look pretty lost out there. It certainly can give the perspective that they are not trying when nothing could be further from the truth.

Eggs are laid several times during the season..........and we laid one last night.

beat

beat,

i can buy a bad game, but without using the excuses I listed before.  And, I can understand one guy maybe not having a good night, but when the whole team plays flat I have a problem.

And, this factor is just another reason why I think that the team leader is so very important.

The matinee games really screw their body clocks up. They are second shift workers who are asked to work first shift, often after traveling and getting to their hotel in the wee hours that day.

Still, overall, my inclination is to agree with Clyde. A lot of complaining. Besides they don't do full practices the day of the game. They look at film, resting in a nice, soft chair, and they might do some walk-through or "skeletons" but nothing too strenuous.



bob



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The more I think about this the more concerned I am and the more frustrated I am. I very much would like to hear a couple of Celtics players talking about their frustrations with this situation.

To me, there was no excuse for a flat performance last night against a weaker Charlotte team after coming off their best game of the season in many ways on Monday night which was against a better team (Washington) and coming off a back to back (Sunday and Monday). It seems to me that hustle and intensity should never be less than what we saw on Monday.

Again, this is where the team leader steps up and just does not allow his team to fall into such holes.

wide clyde,

I didn't see the Charlotte game, but I guess I'm having difficulty understanding why being flat for one game is such an issue. For a streak of games, sure, I could understand that, but one game? All teams have off nights, even the Spurs.

Whenever the issue of "tired players" or "flat game against a weaker team" or "playing down to weaker teams" comes up, I always remember the home and away back to back games the Celtics played against the Charlotte Bobcats in 2008.

That was our championship season, yet we stunk it up in both games. That was back in the BDC days, so many of you can imagine the hyperbole being thrown about after the second game.  Those two losses happened in a season where we were contenders and eventually won it all.  This year, we have none of those expectations and we are barely winning one third of our games in a rebuilding season.

My prediction: We will see more of this before we see less of this.

gyso

wide clyde wrote:beat,

i can buy a bad game, but with using the excuses I listed before.  And, I can understand one guy maybe not having a good night, but when the whole team plays flat I have a problem.

And, this factor is just another reason why I think that the team leader is so very important.

One guy can make a huge difference, flat happens in ALL team sports not just hoops. Seasons are long, getting everyone on the same page ready to play hard each and every night...? Asking for miracles... that said we have played hard in almost every game this season. And it will happen again. Intensity really starts and ends on the defensive end anyway and right now we are searching for an identity on that end of the floor.


beat

the only thing I would say about this is, why call out the lack of a team leader?

shouldn't the coaching staff take the blame for a flat performance by a team?

kdp59 wrote:the only thing I would say about this is, why call out the lack of a team leader?

shouldn't the coaching staff take the blame for a flat performance by a team?

Then every coach from Stevens to Red is to blame..........this has always happened in the past and will happen again. We are NOT a very good team and as long as we play hard (which for the lions share this season we have) I can live with this.

beat

As long as basketball is played by human beings and not androids there will be games in which the majority of one or both teams just aren't capable of giving their top effort--no matter how hard they may try.

The 85-86 Celtics, which had one of the most dominant seasons ever, lost 15 regular season games, seven of which were to under .500 teams. In other words, they mostly lost when they got bored.

The regular season is simply too long with too many meaningless games for players to be up for all of them.

The playoffs are a different story.

I have never traveled on a private jet, and assume the comforts of seats the turn into virtual beds, extra private bathrooms and showers, good food etc - helps to cushion the blow.

But playing a hard, physical game for 2.5 hours - then getting out of the gym at 1 a.m. to fly to another city to land at 4 a.m. to get to bed by 6 a.m. to wake at noon and hit the arena again by 4 p.m. for a 7 pm game would take its toll on anyone.

Trying to equate the NBA to what you did as a teenager at your local park or YMCA is silly.

"As long as basketball is played by human beings and not androids there will be games in which the majority of one or both teams just aren't capable of giving their top effort--no matter how hard they may try"

Sloopjohnb--- Add to your above statement the reality of a roster comprised of average at best talent and its quite understandable that loses are unfortunately so frequent. Worry not about the fate of this years current team. Changes will be made but it takes time. Looking back at the great 07-08 club I'm reminded of the fact that only 3 players from the 05-06 club were still with the 07-08 team. You can be sure that Danny will wheel and deal. Think positive. Think the future.

swish

The best resolution to this is a good effort in the next game. I'm really not worried about the Celtics in this area. They're not the Knicks.

I gather that this discussion about tough schedules and fatigue is fan-generated rather then being the product of comments from the Celtics or other teams.

Whether from the fan perspective or today's team perspective orget it.  These guys have no excuse in the world for being tired.  None whatsoever!  Their schedule, combined with their modes of transportation, is a complete joke.

Of all the talk about the difference in eras, the biggest commonality between eras is arguably that human beings played the game in both eras.  When I read and hear about today's supermen, and when I read about their conditioning and nutritional benefits, I can only come to the assumption that they should be MUCH better prepared to withstand the rigors of NBA life than the old guys were.

Here are some excerpts from the Celtics' schedule in 1960-61, when the Celtics averaged 117 points per game via a nearly constant running game:

Jan. 31 Chicago
Feb. 1 Los Angeles
Feb. 2 Cincinatti

Feb. 4 New York
Feb. 5 @ Chicago
Feb. 6 @ St. Louis

Feb. 8 @ Syracuse
Feb. 9 Philadelphia
Feb. 10 @ Philacelphia
Feb. 11 Chicago

Feb. 13 Chicago at Providence
Feb. 14 @ New York

(That's 12 games in 15 days.)

Feb. 22 Syracuse @ Providence
Feb. 23 Syracuse
Feb. 24 @Philadelphia
Feb. 25 @ Syracuse

Mar. 6 @ New York
Mar. 7 Philadelphia
Mar. 8 @ Chicago
Mar. 9 @Detroit

How about 1961-62, when the Celtics averaged 121 points per game?

Nov. 23 New York
Nov. 24 @ Philadelphia
Nov. 25 @ Chicago
Nov. 16 Syracuse

Nov. 30 Detroit
Dec. 1 New York @ Philadelphia
Dec. 2 Los Angeles

Dec. 7 Cincinnati @ Philadelphia
Dec. 8 Cincinnati
Dec. 9 Cincinnati
Dec. 10 @ Philadelphia

Dec. 26 @ Philadelphia
Dec. 27 @ St. Louis
Dec. 28 @New York

Jan. 12 Syracuse @ St. Louis
Jan. 13 Philadelphia
Jan. 14 @ Philadelphia
Jan. 14 New York

Jan. 29 Philadelphia
Jan. 30 @ Cincinnati
Jan. 31 New York @ Providence
Feb. 1 New York @ Providence

Feb. 10 Detroit
Feb. 11 Philadelphia
Feb. 12 Los Anageles @ St. Louis

Mar. 7 Cincinnati @ Providence
Mar. 8 Syracuse
Mar. 9 Detroit @ Syracuse

Finally, how about this FIVE day period in 1959-60, when the Celtics averaged 125 points per game.

Jan. 1 Cincinnati @ Detroit
Jan. 2 @ Philadelphia
Jan. 3 @ Syracuse
Jan. 4 Syracuse
Jan. 5 Syracuse @ Porvidence

Now, THOSE are taxing schedules, especially when a team is playing at near warp speed.  And I couldn't care less that most of the opposing cities were in the east.  Travel took twice as long, was far more likely to involve transfers, was always taken commercially, and therefore had none of the luxuries enjoyed by today's players.  Even a lot of the short trips were taken by train or even by bus or car.

My advice for any of today's players or teams who feel they're disadvantaged by back-to-back games is to get over themselves and try harder.

Sam

Another perspective is that schedule and travel affect all teams in all eras , not just the C's, so like air conditioning, better sneakers and private planes, schedule and travel should have little effect on overall record. Everyone's affected more or less equally.
I think Swish nailed it. We need more talent, not a better schedule. Hawk