I don't get it (Davis traded for Charlotte's DJ Augustin)

by **sinus007** Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:43 pm

Hi,
just found this
Any comments?
Thank you very much,
AK

[gyso edit: revised title and merged bobh's thread to this one]

by **NYCelt** Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:14 pm

AK,

I really don't know what to make of that one, or who else would need to be included to make the numbers work.

My initial thought was simply that I'd love to have Augustin in the mix as part of a second unit. That would allow Daniels to stay on the wing. However giving up Davis is problematic because although he's been less than stellar, 'Sheed has been hot and cold and we need someone behind him.

Then again Williams could emerge from the doghouse...

I kind of like the idea at first glance, but can't quite get my head around it.

It does go with my thinking that it's not someone like Ray who might go, it's a bench adjustment we're looking at.

Regards

by **Sam** Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:38 pm

Sinus,

Maybe I'm blind, but I don't see any link in your original post. Would you please be willing to repeat it?

Thanks

Sam

by **Jerry Tarkanian** Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:03 pm

The link is 'this' in green, Sam.

These young'ns are getting very high tech on us.....lol

Tark

by **gyso** Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:05 pm

Sam wrote:Sinus,

Maybe I'm blind, but I don't see any link in your original post. Would you please be willing to repeat it?

Thanks

Sam

Sam,

He has a trick. Look for the green word (this) in his post.

He taught me this last week. I make my links bold if I do it this way.

gyso

by **bobheckler** Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:42 pm

This is a trade rumor in the Charlotte paper talking about a possible Davis for DJ Augustin trade.

http://blogs.charlotte.com/inside_the_nba/2010/02/bobcats-near-trade-deadline.html

This rumor is also being talked about by ESPN.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13010/celtics-bobcats-in-trade-talks

They're saying that another player would have to be thrown into this deal for Boston to make the $ work.

bob

by **jeb** Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:48 pm

I would do this and fast.

BBD can kiss every inch of my ass. His immaturity has COST us this year and we need a back up point guard.

Shelden given the chance can adapt and give good minutes in Glen's role.

Do it and do it now.

by **Sam** Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:54 pm

Thanks guys. I should have looked more closely.

The more we hear, the more it seems that Danny could indeed wind up turning over as much as one-third of the Celtics roster. At least it seems apparent that he's out there looking at possibilities.

As I've said many times, one should not judge a player in a vacuum but within the context of the likely team chemistry if it included him.

With Augustin, I see a greatly speeded-up bench attack featuring Tony and Daniels finishing at the wings or one of them finishing and Eddie as the trailer perimeter threat. The big question in my mind would be how to compensate for the fact that opponents would be llkely to post up Augustin a lot—and with success unless there's at least one "big" to back him up.

In that respect, if Davis left, the rumors are that the Celts might trade an expiring contract for someone like 37-year-old Kurt Thomas. Would a "big" rotation of Sheed, Thomas and Williams represent adequate defensive bailouts for Augustin?

Of course, there's also the obvious fact that Augustin would constitute a more-than-adequate backup for Rondo in case of injury, foul problems, possible end-of-game anti-"hack-a-Rondo" strategy, etc.

And the Celtics may just be wondering when and if Glen will be more than worth the concerns he presents.

Interesting.

Sam

by **jeb** Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:54 pm

In the bonbcats link they mention wallace too. If we could get an athletic big who would listen I'd say hurl the ringer on that too.

by **bobheckler** Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:07 pm

jeb65 wrote:In the bonbcats link they mention wallace too. If we could get an athletic big who would listen I'd say hurl the ringer on that too.

jeb,

Yeah, Rasheed Wallace, not Gerald.

Gawd, can you imagine if we got Gerald Wallace and Augustin for Davis and Rasheed Wallace? We'd be small but sooo athletic.

A pure pipedream, of course.

bob

by **sinus007** Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:10 pm

Hi,
Sam, sorry. Hope now it's better.
Tark, thanks for the compliment.
My only reservation about the trade is that BBD's been playing with gusto no matter what and has been very active on offensive rebounding.
Now, if it comes through I wonder who else will be involved?

AK

by **bobheckler** Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:16 pm

I started a thread titled "Trade Rumor du jour" that addressed this. I hadn't read this thread first.

Sam/moderators, if you want to delete my thread in favor of this one, that's ok with me.

bob

by **gyso** Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:56 pm

I used RealGM trade checker:

http://www.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/3/

Glen Davis and Shelden Williams straight up for D.J. Augustin.

Glen is BYC, so the reason this trade works is because Shelden is a vet minimum contract player. Vet min. contracts can be ignored going out with a BYC and must count going the other way. I think the reason for this is that the league wants to keep old guys employed.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q72
_______________________________________________
From Boston to Charlotte:

1/2(GD sal: 3,000,000) + (SW sal: 825,497) =

1,500,000 + 825,497 = 2,325,497

DJA makes 2,374,680

Those numbers are within 100k, let alone 125% this way.
_______________________________________________
From Charlotte to Boston:

(GD sal: 3,000,000) + (SW sal: -0- ) =

3,000,000 + 0 = 3,000,000

DJA makes 2,374,680

We'll take the lower number, multiply by 1.25 (125%) and add 100,000:

(2,374,680 x 1.25) + 100,000 =

2,968,250 + 100,000 = 3,068,350

3,000,000 is within 100,000 of 2,968,250 so it works this way as well.
_______________________________________________

Now you say that giving Glen and Sheldon is too much for DJ. You would have a point, a good one. So now what do we do?

We sign a free agent chosen by Charlotte to a vet minimum contract, bundle him with Glen and it is a done deal. We have a open roster spot to use for this (otherwise, with Hudson under contract we can't do this) and end up with an open spot after the transaction.

Now would you do this trade:

Glen Davis and (????) for DJ Augustin?

I hope this was helpfull,

gyso

by **gyso** Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:57 pm

bobheckler wrote:I started a thread titled "Trade Rumor du jour" that addressed this. I hadn't read this thread first.

Sam/moderators, if you want to delete my thread in favor of this one, that's ok with me.

bob

Bob,

I can merge your thread into this one if you would like. Say the word!!!

gyso

by **gyso** Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:18 pm

gyso wrote:
bobheckler wrote:I started a thread titled "Trade Rumor du jour" that addressed this. I hadn't read this thread first.

Sam/moderators, if you want to delete my thread in favor of this one, that's ok with me.

bob

Bob,

I can merge your thread into this one if you would like. Say the word!!!

gyso

Bob,

I have to go, so I just merged them. This is the result. I will tweak the title of this one to include DJ's name.

gyso

by **NYCelt** Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:39 pm

Upon further review (in my mind anyway), as long as we keep Williams to take Davis' minutes, package someone else and do it.

A second unit featuring 'Sheed, Williams, Daniels, House and Augustin might have potential. I'm not sure that's all-world defense, but the rebounding would be adequate and they might keep the scoreboard humming.

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:47 pm

NYCelt wrote:Upon further review (in my mind anyway), as long as we keep Williams to take Davis' minutes, package someone else and do it.

A second unit featuring 'Sheed, Williams, Daniels, House and Augustin might have potential. I'm not sure that's all-world defense, but the rebounding would be adequate and they might keep the scoreboard humming.

can anybody explain why SW has been the forgotten man?early in season we were winning with him getting minutes doing the dirty work....now everyone complains were getting outrebounded.

by **Sam** Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:22 pm

Cow,

It's almost pure conjecture. But the only thing I can come up with is that, with key bench players either missing or called upon to be starters for much of the season, the bench has been in particular disarray. Sheldon's penchant for "fumblitis" might be acceptable under some circumstances (as perhaps Perk's is); but perhaps not when trying to right a sinking ship. And perhaps it's even more true when the other big man isn't grabbing many rebounds; this unit needs to retain every board it gets its mitts on.

That's as close as I can come to something that might make some sense; and it's a sheer guess. Otherwise, I'm stumped.

Sam

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:33 pm

Sam
If Sheed has another 1 rebound game in 20 minutes,I'd bench him for SW,lets give Baby and SW a shot.....I'd do Perk and SW too.

by **Sam** Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:52 pm

Cow,

Do you mean you'd bench both Sheed and Perk in favor of Sherwin Williams?

We can all sit around and gripe about Sheed, or they can bench him and lose their investment (and his defense which can sometimes be pretty darned good on a man-to-man basis). Or we could try to think about possible avenues to seeing a more productive Sheed.

As you know, I place a lot of importance in the overall execution of the team as a catalyst for affecting the attitude of the team. I'm hoping that they will begin to click as a united team once they get more than one or two practices and games under their belts. And my personal bet is that one player who might be particularly reinvigorated (I like that word Tark used) if that happens could be Sheed.

He strikes me as an old dog who came with certain expectations of the team that have not at all been fulfilled. He also strikes me as the kind of guy who would not kill himself to buck the trend but would sort of coast along with it. ("If this is the best they can come up with, I'll put in my time but nothing more.") I don't like that attitude, but that's the impression I receive.

If there's any truth in what I've said, the only real chance to reinvigorate Sheed would be if the Celtics can now get some momentum going and he buys into it as a frontrunner. I could see him putting out to augment positive momentum (especially if it involves more manageable minutes for him) much more than I can see him making a major effort to reverse negative momentum.

Sam

by **dboss** Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:55 pm

The Celtics have to be very careful about making any trades. For example if Ray Allen is traded it could easily blow up in their face.

The David for Augustin rumor is a thumbs down in my opinion. DJ is a young and inexperience PG. He only averages 5.8 PPG and shoots below 36% from the field. He plays 17.5 MPG and gets 2.8 assist. What could he possibly bring to the table to make Boston a better team? On the other hand Davis has started to resemble the Davis we all loved last year during the playoffs.

Given the on-going problems that this team has had rebounding the basketball, trading Davis for a questionable PG is not something that I would like to see.

Some have suggested that SW could step in and replace Davis. I don't think so. Davis is clearly a better player than Shelden and has more versatility in his game. Davis already knows how to play with this team while Williams has not figured it out yet.

by **Sam** Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:18 am

Dboss,

Augustin is subject to a lot of pros and cons. However, in terms of assists, he hands them off at the rate of 4.6 every 36 minutes (according to Basketball Reference), which would place him second on the Boston Celtics right now (well behind Rondo).

I don't pretend to know much about the player combinations he's working with in Charlotte, but I'd be willing to bet he'd have much better collaborators in Boston.

This doesn't mean he'd necessarily be a good addition, but i don't believe his assist figures would be a serious deterrent.

Sam

by **cowens/oldschool** Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:31 am

Sam wrote:Cow,

Do you mean you'd bench both Sheed and Perk in favor of Sherwin Williams?

We can all sit around and gripe about Sheed, or they can bench him and lose their investment (and his defense which can sometimes be pretty darned good on a man-to-man basis). Or we could try to think about possible avenues to seeing a more productive Sheed.

As you know, I place a lot of importance in the overall execution of the team as a catalyst for affecting the attitude of the team. I'm hoping that they will begin to click as a united team once they get more than one or two practices and games under their belts. And my personal bet is that one player who might be particularly reinvigorated (I like that word Tark used) if that happens could be Sheed.

He strikes me as an old dog who came with certain expectations of the team that have not at all been fulfilled. He also strikes me as the kind of guy who would not kill himself to buck the trend but would sort of coast along with it. ("If this is the best they can come up with, I'll put in my time but nothing more.") I don't like that attitude, but that's the impression I receive.

If there's any truth in what I've said, the only real chance to reinvigorate Sheed would be if the Celtics can now get some momentum going and he buys into it as a frontrunner. I could see him putting out to augment positive momentum (especially if it involves more manageable minutes for him) much more than I can see him making a major effort to reverse negative momentum.

Sam

no I'm saying I would also play Perk and SW together,they did play together for a few stretches and looked great shutting down the inside.I know I've been gloomy lately,but I hope your right and ship can gain momentum,would love to see this team start kickin some ass again.

by **Jerry Tarkanian** Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:37 am

Augustin was a defensive liability with Texas and has aged Larry Brown 10 years in his inability to stop ANYONE in Charlotte.

Don't like the move, even though I feel Davis has off court and maturity issues that diminish his value.

Tark

by **cowens/oldschool** Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:40 am

dboss wrote:The Celtics have to be very careful about making any trades. For example if Ray Allen is traded it could easily blow up in their face.

The David for Augustin rumor is a thumbs down in my opinion. DJ is a young and inexperience PG. He only averages 5.8 PPG and shoots below 36% from the field. He plays 17.5 MPG and gets 2.8 assist. What could he possibly bring to the table to make Boston a better team? On the other hand Davis has started to resemble the Davis we all loved last year during the playoffs.

Given the on-going problems that this team has had rebounding the basketball, trading Davis for a questionable PG is not something that I would like to see.

Some have suggested that SW could step in and replace Davis. I don't think so. Davis is clearly a better player than Shelden and has more versatility in his game. Davis already knows how to play with this team while Williams has not figured it out yet.

Baby might be more well rounded than Paul Silas,doesn't mean hes a better player.We were winning early with team healthy and SW playing,contributing his strengths.Losses aren't all on Baby,but if Augustin can add more speed and uptempo,a point to push the pace,more uptempo and keeping Rondo fresher and even playing them together.....could help,we don't get enough easy baskets.

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