Celtics focused on being patiently aggressive

Celtics focused on being patiently aggressive
By Jeff Clark  @celticsblog on Feb 9, 2015, 7:06a 59
http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/2/9/8003957/celtics-focused-on-being-patiently-aggressive



David Butler II-USA TODAY Sports
Or is it aggressively patient? Or patient until they can be aggressive? Or something like that.


Our friends at CLNS Radio interviewed many folks surrounding the Celtics and published a well done, well rounded article on the state of the team from various perspectives.  Worth the click and read.

Fan Morale for the Boston Celtics Is High ...And It Should Be

Some big highlights were the quotes from team president Rich Gotham and Co-Owner Wyc Grousbeck.

Gotham made the obvious parallels to the last rebuilding process.

"We're in a much cleaner place right now than we were [in 2003-2007] with regards to the assets we have under our control," Gotham acknowledged. "We don't have bad contracts so we don't have to take back players that we don't want unless it is advantageous for us to do it. We've got more draft picks than we've ever had at one point of time and we've got more cap space than we've ever had. So we're in a good position to make moves."

While he stopped short of promising "fireworks" this summer, you can tell that Wyc is itching to get better soon ...while forcing himself to stay patient with the process.

"We have up to as much as 23 draft selections in the coming years," said co-owner, Wyc Grousbeck.  "We have a good group of young players and people.  And we may have enough cap space for two max free agents this summer…We just need to identify the key guys and be patient through it all."

There's no clear path forward because there are just too many variables outside the team's control.  Where will we pick? Which free agents will be available?  What impact players will be put on the trade block (now or in the summer)?

Still, the team has the flexibility to read and react to whatever comes up, regardless of the timeframe.  For example, everyone assumes that the Celtics will be sellers in the next week.  That's probably true, but if they see value in a player or two that are available for the right price, I wouldn't rule out them making a "buy" decision either.

"We know we need more talent on the roster, there’s no question about that or denial. We are going to be aggressive in pursuing that this summer. We’ll be getting after that – if not sooner," Gotham concluded.

Fundamentally there's nothing new or Earth shattering here, but it is encouraging to hear that the team (from the owners on down) has the right attitude and commitment to the process.  It doesn't guarantee success, but they seem to be on the right track.



bob
MY NOTE:  Well, he certainly nailed it, nothing new or Earth-shaking here.  Gotham made a good point.  With the exception of Wallace's contract (which will be in its final year at the end of this season, and therefore more attractive as it winds down) we are in a better, cleaner place than 2007.  We had Pierce,  Big Al, the #5 pick and a bunch of decent spare parts (West, Gomes, Wally) to offer back then.  We'll have MUCH more going for us this summer and next.



.

Pierce was special though. He has a sunny, magnetic personality that brought KG into the Celtics orbit.

I know we've debated this here in other threads before, so maybe this is a re-hash, but I'm not buying what Gotham's selling; at least not all of it.  In terms of money owed out on bad contracts, yes, we're clearly better off.  In terms of perceived and real value of our talent both for trades and to retain, I don't think so.  The draft picks are a wild card since it's impossible to know what value other teams may attach to them, and several picks are dependent on variables beyond our control.  I don't think it's a valid comparison to look at '15 versus '07.  I don't see any way we're in better shape to improve substantially and quickly as we did in '07.  I think it's the type of statement you make to let fans know you're working when you need to sell seats, and fear impatience may hurt at the turnstiles or with corporate dollars for suites and advertising.

Paul was a pillar of our rebuilding process. We're are pretty much starting from square one now, but with a lot of Scrabble pieces.

NYCelt wrote:I know we've debated this here in other threads before, so maybe this is a re-hash, but I'm not buying what Gotham's selling; at least not all of it.  In terms of money owed out on bad contracts, yes, we're clearly better off.  In terms of perceived and real value of our talent both for trades and to retain, I don't think so.  The draft picks are a wild card since it's impossible to know what value other teams may attach to them, and several picks are dependent on variables beyond our control.  I don't think it's a valid comparison to look at '15 versus '07.  I don't see any way we're in better shape to improve substantially and quickly as we did in '07.  I think it's the type of statement you make to let fans know you're working when you need to sell seats, and fear impatience may hurt at the turnstiles or with corporate dollars for suites and advertising.

Nycelt,

We're better off on cap space to sign players on our own too. Danny also has a lot of salary relief to provide trading partners with TPEs.

Taking Pierce off the table, because the trades were made to keep him, you don't think the tradeable roster we have now is better than '07?  Sully is probably our best player but he's hardly so good as to be 'untouchable' (in fact, the rumors were he could have been had in the Kevin Love Sweepstakes).  You don't think the team we have today, from top to bottom including Sully, is better than the '07 one with Pierce being unavailable?

Many of the picks' value is nebulous, true, but each year brings them into sharper focus.  If teams aren't comfortable with where they will be today, as we approach the trade deadline, they will be at the end of the season when they become set and Danny's negotiations will begin in anticipation of draft day trades.  Draft day trades aren't 'impulse buys'.  They've been well-discussed, run past the owners and coaches, and have tentative approval.  They then wait to see if the player they want is still available when Danny picks.

Just as in '07, we need to develop players but if they don't develop as fast as we'd like for maximum trade value, that is what the picks are for, sweetener, and Danny has a lot  of sugar.


bob



.

What we had then (with Pierce) is probably better than what we have now.  The difference is Pierce.

What we had then (without Pierce in the equation) is not better than what we have now.  Not even close.

Sometime in the next couple of years, we may get that guy (or guys) that we can build around and then we will be in a much better position.  Draft, trade or free agent, who knows how we add those guys.

In a couple of years, we will still have a couple years worth of extra draft picks to work with and maybe some cap space as well.  After the trades for RA and KG, we did not have anything to build with except our own late round draft pick each year, no cap space and the MLE.

That is the biggest difference between then and now.

gyso

I certainly don't know if it's in the cards; but, if the Celtics were to draft Cauley-Stein, sign a max free agent floor general and a max free agent wing, and draft and/or trade for another wing and a power forward, I'd be willing to bet there would be more than a smattering of excitement on this board as next season approaches. And, for the first time with the Celtics, Brad would be operating from a position of strength rather than struggling to survive.

Obviously, there are no guarantees. But if Danny focuses on bringing in guys who have a reasonable chance of being able to work together well and complement one another, I might even get excited myself.

Sam

gyso wrote:What we had then (with Pierce) is probably better than what we have now.  The difference is Pierce.

What we had then (without Pierce in the equation) is not better than what we have now.  Not even close.

Sometime in the next couple of years, we may get that guy (or guys) that we can build around and then we will be in a much better position.  Draft, trade or free agent, who knows how we add those guys.

In a couple of years, we will still have a couple years worth of extra draft picks to work with and maybe some cap space as well.  After the trades for RA and KG, we did not have anything to build with except our own late round draft pick each year, no cap space and the MLE.

That is the biggest difference between then and now.

gyso

Gyso,

My point exactly. If you compare pieces available for trade, which would exclude Pierce from the '07 squad and NOBODY from this year's squad, Danny is in better shape now. Throw in on top of that the cap space he will have this summer and the TPEs and he is in a much stronger position now..


bob


.

gyso wrote:What we had then (with Pierce) is probably better than what we have now.  The difference is Pierce.

What we had then (without Pierce in the equation) is not better than what we have now.  Not even close.

Sometime in the next couple of years, we may get that guy (or guys) that we can build around and then we will be in a much better position.  Draft, trade or free agent, who knows how we add those guys.

In a couple of years, we will still have a couple years worth of extra draft picks to work with and maybe some cap space as well.  After the trades for RA and KG, we did not have anything to build with except our own late round draft pick each year, no cap space and the MLE.

That is the biggest difference between then and now.

gyso

Gyso,

My point exactly. If you compare pieces available for trade, which would exclude Pierce from the '07 squad and NOBODY from this year's squad, Danny is in better shape now. Throw in on top of that the cap space he will have this summer and the TPEs and he is in a much stronger position now..


bob


.

gyso wrote:What we had then (with Pierce) is probably better than what we have now.  The difference is Pierce.

What we had then (without Pierce in the equation) is not better than what we have now.  Not even close.

Sometime in the next couple of years, we may get that guy (or guys) that we can build around and then we will be in a much better position.  Draft, trade or free agent, who knows how we add those guys.

In a couple of years, we will still have a couple years worth of extra draft picks to work with and maybe some cap space as well.  After the trades for RA and KG, we did not have anything to build with except our own late round draft pick each year, no cap space and the MLE.

That is the biggest difference between then and now.

gyso

Gyso,

My point exactly.  If you compare pieces available for trade, which would exclude Pierce from the '07 squad and NOBODY from this year's squad, Danny is in better shape now.  Throw in on top of that the cap space he will have this summer and the TPEs and he is in a much stronger position now..


bob


.

Bob,

One of these days I'll learn to post thoughts only when I actually have time to explain or debate them fully.  Unfortunately today is not that day, but I do want to get back to you, so bear with the quick and rough way I'll put this together.

We're better now on money, yes.  Draft picks are hard to judge, but it doesn't look like we'll have a pick as high as #5.  I think it's a three-legged stool, subjective to my opinion, of course, but that third leg is the roster and its value on the market or to retain on the roster.  Here's how I look at it...

'07 starters (not by minutes played, due to injuries that year)

Pierce
Gomes
Jefferson
Rondo
West

'15 starters (current, which changes fast)

Turner
Sullinger
Bass
Smart
Bradley

SF – edge ’07, PF – ’15, C - ’07, PG – ’07, SG – even; 3.5 – ’07 to 1.5 – ‘15

’07 2nd unit

G. Green
Powe
Perkins
Telfair
T. Allen

’15 2nd unit (adjusted to include Olynyk)

Crowder
Olynyk
Zeller
Pressey
Thornton

SF – ’15, PF – ’07, C – ’07, PG – ’07, SG - ’07; 4 - ’07 to 1 - ‘15

I’ll go ten deep to avoid debating the merits of Wally Z vs. Tayshaun Prince.  We shouldn’t laugh that hard.

Head to head I make it 7.5 to 2.5 in favor of ’07.

I gave an edge to Crowder over Gerald Green and Sully over Gomes, but in ’07, I think Gomes skill set wasn’t all that far behind where Sully is today. Gomes was more mobile, but both are undersized PFs without the tools needed to play SF.  We all like Pressey, kind of like we all like a new puppy, but compared to even the perpetually disappointing Telfair?  No thanks.  He just isn’t going to bring that kind of value IMO.

This is a highly subjective look, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  There is no way, however, I rate our current lineup as strong as ’07.  We were able to deal our second best player, Jefferson, and keep our best, Pierce.  Who even are our two best players today?  Sully and Smart?  There’s a bruising comedown from ’07 in my view.

I think there were at least three players on the ’07 roster 2nd unit that had fair trade or future playing value (at that time); Perkins, Tony Allen and Powe.  I don’t think Zeller, Thornton and Olynyk are as valuable to us or a trading partner at this time.  Tony Allen left via free agency, but I think the price tag he was able to hang on himself helps prove his value; no player on our second unit is getting the equivalent of that value now in my estimation.

Ultimately I see the ’07 roster as better, ’15 money as better, and draft picks impossible to value.  We have more picks now, but what will probably turn out to be a higher one in ’07.  Even with better money, we could look at the upcoming free agent class, and look at just how many realistic targets versus over-priced options exist there.  I'm probably opening a Pandora's Box to a debate on that, but I don't think the FA route looks fantastic even with the funds we will have this year.

So again, I’ll beg your pardon, or anyone’s in other topics who get a quick answer from me due to time, but by my look at now versus ’07, influenced by the roster,  there is no way I see the overall picture as better today.

Of course, if we win the title next season, I'll be proven wrong.

Well, that was lunch.  Enjoyed spending it with you (it was turkey on whole wheat, mayo on the keyboard).  Hope the trip is going well; got to fly.

Regards