cold weather/ NBA break dreaming.......

Jimmy Butler for a max RFA deal (starts at $15.8M) sign and trade offering a re-signed Crowder and a first round pick in 2016 & 2018.

Asik for $12M (UFA)

what a defense!


Asik
Zeller
Christian Wood- UNLV ( Clippers pick)
Sully
Kelly
Butler
Wallace
Justin Anderson- Virginia ( our pick at #16)
Bradley
Smart
Turner
Young
Pressey

add
Tyrone Wallace and Dakari Johnson as early second round picks and call it a day!

sam wrote:kdp,

Do you believe the Bulls would fail to give up Butler?  And, by the way, the salaries don't work.  The Celtics would have to ante up an additional $500,000 in salary to make it work according to Trade Machine.

Sam

Sam,

TPE. Danny has tons.

bob


.

I did say "dream"

I was talking about a sign and trade in the off-season, as Butler will be a RFA then. We will be UNDER the cap and can take Butlers deal back while sending picks, lesser $$ assets back. The ESPN trade machine won't work for future deals.

Bulls have pretty much said they'll pay Butler the max as a RFA, however.

of course that WILL put them well into tax territory also....so.....I guess perhaps a sign and trade is possible (if improbable).

some defensive team though, huh?

Butler
Bradley
Smart
Asik

heck you could even  play Kelly O with that group all day long and still be the best defensive team in the NBA.

kdp,

The more we all discuss the future of the Celtics, the more I realize how much the acquisition of a strong defensive center will influence the ongoing value of guys like Olynyk (and maybe even Sully) to the team.

But the four players you mention could represent a very nice defensive nucleus.

Sam

kdp59 wrote:Jimmy Butler for a max RFA deal (starts at $15.8M) sign and trade offering a re-signed Crowder and a first round pick in 2016 & 2018.

Asik for $12M (UFA)

what a defense!


Asik
Zeller
Christian Wood- UNLV ( Clippers pick)
Sully
Kelly
Butler
Wallace
Justin Anderson- Virginia ( our pick at #16)
Bradley
Smart
Turner
Young
Pressey

add
Tyrone Wallace and Dakari Johnson as early second round picks and call it a day!

kdp,

The more I read your posts the more I think you really get it.  You did say "dream" after all, so I won't hold your feet to the fire until we make all these moves.  It's fun, after all, to say 'what if' once in a while.  It looks to me like you've been watching more than your share of NCAA games too.  I think you're also the first to point out that Crowder may now have some minor trade value.  I think he's done enough with us to warrant it, so he could be helpful in that way.

I'll take your winter break dream, sounds good to me.

If I may, the only part I'll change is Asik.  I don't think he's that sensational, he's just hanging around at a time when bigs are scarce.  He's kind of akin to the ugly girl (or guy) who gets picked up at closing time in a bar.  I do think you're on the money with Dakari Johnson.  In my opinion, selecting Johnson makes Asik totally unneeded; spend the FA money elsewhere.  Johnson gets overlooked because of Cauley-Stein and Towns, but all three are likely to be quality players in the NBA.  Personally, I agree with those that think Johnson has a fighting shot at being the next Shaq-type player to enter the league.  

Two possible draft scenarios I see for us; taking a big and a guard, or taking two bigs.  This is the draft where we stand a decent shot at long-term player acquisition and genuine long-term improvement.  No short window construction, I hope.  Maybe make that three draft scenarios; the third being just take any player(s) you can from Kentucky or Duke (Ok all; that was said just for fun...or was it?).

Regards

oh don't woory NYcelt..the NEXT time I come up with some fantasy off-season deals you'll probably be sure i've lost my mind completely.

Seriously, I see Butler and Reggie Jackson (Okl) as RFA options for Danny to possibly go after. Though Jackson has seemed to go into a FUNK since everyone got healthy at OKC the second half of this season.

Butler would be a STEAL for sure, but with the Bulls saying they will match ANY offer including a max one, it would take some draft picks to pry him away for sure (and maybe not even then).


anyway, I keep thinking about that $30M in cap space Danny MAY have to use this off-season.


ohhhhh the possabilities!!!

NYCelt wrote:

kdp59 wrote:Jimmy Butler for a max RFA deal (starts at $15.8M) sign and trade offering a re-signed Crowder and a first round pick in 2016 & 2018.

Asik for $12M (UFA)

what a defense!


Asik
Zeller
Christian Wood- UNLV ( Clippers pick)
Sully
Kelly
Butler
Wallace
Justin Anderson- Virginia ( our pick at #16)
Bradley
Smart
Turner
Young
Pressey

add
Tyrone Wallace and Dakari Johnson as early second round picks and call it a day!

kdp,

The more I read your posts the more I think you really get it.  You did say "dream" after all, so I won't hold your feet to the fire until we make all these moves.  It's fun, after all, to say 'what if' once in a while.  It looks to me like you've been watching more than your share of NCAA games too.  I think you're also the first to point out that Crowder may now have some minor trade value.  I think he's done enough with us to warrant it, so he could be helpful in that way.

I'll take your winter break dream, sounds good to me.

If I may, the only part I'll change is Asik.  I don't think he's that sensational, he's just hanging around at a time when bigs are scarce.  He's kind of akin to the ugly girl (or guy) who gets picked up at closing time in a bar.  I do think you're on the money with Dakari Johnson.  In my opinion, selecting Johnson makes Asik totally unneeded; spend the FA money elsewhere.  Johnson gets overlooked because of Cauley-Stein and Towns, but all three are likely to be quality players in the NBA.  Personally, I agree with those that think Johnson has a fighting shot at being the next Shaq-type player to enter the league.  

Two possible draft scenarios I see for us; taking a big and a guard, or taking two bigs.  This is the draft where we stand a decent shot at long-term player acquisition and genuine long-term improvement.  No short window construction, I hope.  Maybe make that three draft scenarios; the third being just take any player(s) you can from Kentucky or Duke (Ok all; that was said just for fun...or was it?).

Regards

Nycelt,

I agree with you 100% about kdp's NCAA knowledge and draft projection track record.  Last year he gave us his own  running updates on picks and where they were likely to go.  I was so impressed with it I did a post-mortem to reality-check myself,  which I posted, that compared his final draft projection against draftexpress.com, mynbadraft.net, nbadraft.com and CBS Sports; all the major draft boards.  I gave everybody a +/-2 margin of error (i.e. due to draft day trades and other factors, if the player was selected within 2 picks up or down of where they predicted he would be I gave them credit for being right).  KDP beat them all.  You were the first and biggest supporter of Marcus Smart last year.  I know you watch a lot of NCAA too.  I'm looking forward to you and kdp's collaborations this year, I really am.  They will be invaluable to people like me who don't follow college sports.


bob



.

well thanks Bob, but like I said last year I don't really watch much college ball.

I just scour the net for what others say near to draft time and combine their rankings/guess/etc. into some type consensus.

I wish I could say I know a lot about players but they really are only names for me.

But I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night!

kdp59 wrote:well thanks Bob, but like I said last year I don't really watch much college ball.

I just scour the net for what others say near to draft time and combine their rankings/guess/etc.  into some type consensus.

I wish I could say I know a lot about players but they really are only names for me.

But I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night!

Kdp,

Whatever/however you did it, you did it, you beat them.  There is value in averaging polls, it minimizes the impact of outliers and improves accuracy.

I stayed in a bungalow about .5km from the beach last night.  Didn't do a damn thing for my brain, but I am going swimming this morning.  Unfortunately I have to leave for Bangkok later today (ergo the early swim) and on Thursday afternoon fly back to SFO.  Turn out the lights, the party's over...

The good news is that in a few days I'll be able to get some eyeballs on actual Celtics games!  I am QUITE excited about that!


bob


.

kdp

I think your deciding your picks by the mock drafts, we would be lucky to get Dakari Johnson in the first round, no way he lasts until the 2nd round.

cow

yes Cowens,

right now though I have Dakari Johnson at #31.

very early though for sure.

which reminds me I need to get that combined rankings updated soon.

kdp

Have you seen Justin Anderson play? never heard of him until today, other than a 6'11" reach, I wonder what qualities/attributes he has that you would want him over other wings? Never heard of Christian Wood, he seems like a shot blocker, also never saw him play....at 220 does he have frame to gain weight? we don't need another JuJuan Johnson.

cow

cowens/oldschool wrote:kdp

Have you seen Justin Anderson play? never heard of him until today, other than a 6'11" reach, I wonder what qualities/attributes he has that you would want him over other wings? Never heard of Christian Wood, he seems like a shot blocker, also never saw him play....at 220 does he have frame to gain weight? we don't need another JuJuan Johnson.

cow

Cow,

6'11", 220#, 7'2" wingspan.  Will have 2 years at UNLV.  Projected by draftexpress.Com to go # 18. Read his draftexpress.Com profile. He's a project on offense and defense.

Porzingis is listed at 7'0", 220#, with an unmeasured but OBVIOUSLY much longer wingspan but those numbers haven't changed since last May and I'm sure he has.  Several years experience playing pro ball in a tough Spanish league which has several NBA players in it.   Older, more physically mature and experienced competition than the Mountain West Conference UNLV is in.  Now projected to go #8.

If you're going PF why go for the admitted project when you could have one that is the same age, 19, and is already taller, longer, more polished offensively, has been already tested against pro players?  Because of his weight?  They are the same weight at the same age and Porzingis has a bigger frame to add weight to. The biggest downside to Porzingis is that it will take 3-4 years for him to put on weight, but that would be true with Wood too, and the potential for cultural displacement. He might get homesick and want to go back to Europe. Other than that...

I say, if we don't make the playoffs, either go for a center or go for Porzingis.   If we make the playoffs Porzingis will already be gone by the time we pick as will every other center of assured quality.  Assuming we re-sign Crowder, we don't need another SF, so a point guard would be my preference.


bob



.

bob

I've read on Porzingis too, but with his skill set and girth he is more a PF, he would take a beating from guys like Perk, Howard and Hibbert, Danny already goofed on KO, passing on Gobert and JJ Johnson and Melo, we don't need another frail big getting abused in the paint. Wish we could luck into Downs or Okafor, but so does everyone else....but maybe Porzingis is Dirk lite on offense and a taller Bobby Jones on defense.

If we miss out on the top 2 centers and Porzingis is there maybe we gamble, take him and get lucky that the other GM'S aren't that bright and we can get Dakari Johnson, who I like better than Cauley-Stein, with the Clippers pick as the mocks have him in later rounds. If we got those 2 bigs we would be set. I wonder about Porzingis, as hes not enough of a load to do all that dirty work it takes to anchor a defense, but what do I know?

If I have to take only one choice of Porzingis or Johnson, I take Johnson as hes a natural 5, built to dish it out and take it and we already have Sully to man the 4 who I really like.

cow

cowens/oldschool wrote:bob

I've read on Porzingis too, but with his skill set and girth he is more a PF, he would take a beating from guys like Perk, Howard and Hibbert, Danny already goofed on KO, passing on Gobert and JJ Johnson and Melo, we don't need another frail big getting abused in the paint. Wish we could luck into Downs or Okafor, but so does everyone else....but maybe Porzingis is Dirk lite on offense and a taller Bobby Jones on defense.

If we miss out on the top 2 centers and Porzingis is there maybe we gamble, take him and get lucky that the other GM'S aren't that bright and we can get Dakari Johnson, who I like better than Cauley-Stein, with the Clippers pick as the mocks have him in later rounds. If we got those 2 bigs we would be set. I wonder about Porzingis, as hes not enough of a load to do all that dirty work it takes to anchor a defense, but what do I know?

If I have to take only one choice of Porzingis or Johnson, I take Johnson as hes a natural 5, built to dish it out and take it and we already have Sully to man the 4 who I really like.

cow

Cow,

Draftexpress has Gobert listed as 7'2", 238# (That's the same weight KO came into the league at but 2" taller), while basketball-reference.Com has him listed at 220# (Porzingis' weight). If KO was underweight to play 5 why would Rudy the toothpick, who had more frame to spread those same pounds over, have been a safer, better choice? Sure, NOW he's looking like he can handle the punishment, but that's 20/20 hindsight.

The flip side of this argument is "if Rudy can play center in the NBA @ 7'2", 220# why wouldn't/couldn't Porzingis @ 7'1", 220#?" He has a ton more skills, could play PF if needed (Sully injured?) where as Rudy cannot.


bob


.

Bob,

One possible way Danny could have his cake (playoffs) and eat it (lottery pick) too would be to fork over one or two of his stash of draft picks to move up in the draft.  He's no stranger to moving up.  Somehow, I'm getting the feeling that, between the draft, free agency, and the trade market, all hell is going to break loose around the league this summer (if it doesn't start this week).

Sam

Sam

bobheckler wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:bob

I've read on Porzingis too, but with his skill set and girth he is more a PF, he would take a beating from guys like Perk, Howard and Hibbert, Danny already goofed on KO, passing on Gobert and JJ Johnson and Melo, we don't need another frail big getting abused in the paint. Wish we could luck into Downs or Okafor, but so does everyone else....but maybe Porzingis is Dirk lite on offense and a taller Bobby Jones on defense.

If we miss out on the top 2 centers and Porzingis is there maybe we gamble, take him and get lucky that the other GM'S aren't that bright and we can get Dakari Johnson, who I like better than Cauley-Stein, with the Clippers pick as the mocks have him in later rounds. If we got those 2 bigs we would be set. I wonder about Porzingis, as hes not enough of a load to do all that dirty work it takes to anchor a defense, but what do I know?

If I have to take only one choice of Porzingis or Johnson, I take Johnson as hes a natural 5, built to dish it out and take it and we already have Sully to man the 4 who I really like.

cow

Cow,

Draftexpress has Gobert listed as 7'2", 238# (That's the same weight KO came into the league at but 2" taller), while basketball-reference.Com has him listed at 220# (Porzingis' weight).    If KO was underweight to play 5 why would Rudy the toothpick, who had more frame to spread those same pounds over, have been a safer, better choice?  Sure, NOW he's looking like he can handle the punishment, but that's 20/20 hindsight.

The flip side of this argument is "if Rudy can play center in the NBA @ 7'2", 220# why wouldn't/couldn't Porzingis @ 7'1", 220#?"  He has a ton more skills, could play PF if needed (Sully injured?) where as Rudy cannot.


bob


.

because as good as he may be on film, whos he going against, you sure its better competition? whos the best center there? how can anyone tell when they don't play many minutes over there. Is he the next Bargani or that big Chinese kid whos out of the league?....you sure he can do the dirty work? his stats don't show whether he can rebound?

bob I saw the video on draft express, he had 13 points and 6 rebounds on guys that are 6'9" and 205, its not like he went against Okafor or the Kentucky frontline. I don't see the European League as better competition and even Draft Express has him listed as a PF.

We need a center.

I just used draft picks based on where players are ranked now and where I thought we would pick (16 & 24 or so)

so YES I have us IN THE PLAYOFFS!

Wood and Anderson are ranked as being around then. Porzingis will be long gone by those picks.