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Position Battle: Johnson vs Lee
by bobheckler Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:20 pm
http://hardwoodhoudini.com/2015/08/16/position-battle-johnson-vs-lee/
Position Battle: Johnson vs Lee
by Joshua Bateman 1d ago
The two most significant additions to the Boston Celtics this off season also happen to play the same position. Both Amir Johnson and David Lee will have an opportunity to start for the Celtics but they have some work to do before they prove they should start over Jared Sullinger.
Sullinger has been one of the better players on the Celtics and his three point shooting is embraced by Brad Stevens’ system. Sullinger has worked on his conditioning and he is determined to maintain his role on the team.
Both Johnson and Lee are more experienced and have more polished games but they may not be quite as dynamic as Sullinger.
Chances are both of the new additions will have large roles on the team but there may not be enough minutes to please all three of the top PF on the team and a potential breakout rookie in Jordan Mickey.
Throw in Jonas Jerebko‘s phenomenal three point shooting and the potential from Perry Jones and it will be a very interesting battle to see who comes out on top between Johnson and Lee.
Offense
Both of these players will have the largest impact on the offensive end and they will have an impact in a similar way. They are similarly undersized at 6’9 but that is not a problem with how often the Celtics play small ball. Lee has a weight advantage, weighing in at 35 pounds heavier but that may work in the favor of Johnson given Sullinger’s weight.
Neither of them have been legitimate threats from beyond the arc but Johnson has slightly more progress in that area. In the first 7 years of his career Johnson never had more than 5 three point attempts but he has increased ever since and peaked with 46 attempts last year. The sample size is too small to trust but seeing him hit 19 of those 46 is a good sign.
Lee, on the other hand, has attempted over 5 three point attempts just once and he hit a grand total of 0 of those attempts. Given how late it is in his career and with no signs that he may be able to add the three point shot it may be a lost cause attempting to make Lee a three point threat.
However, Johnson’s hints at being able to hit a three may wind up hurting him. The Celtics may push Johnson to make the three point shot a more prominent aspect of his arsenal and that may hurt him in other areas. Even if the potential is there for Johnson he does his best work within the three point line.
The Celtics had a lot of efficient finishers last year but Johnson may be the best. In his career he has never finished shooting the ball worse than 54.5%, and that is with taking at least 5.3 shot attempts over his past 5 seasons.
The biggest problem with Johnson is his mid range game may be lacking. Last season Johnson finished a scorching 70% of his shots within three feet of the rim but was under 50% everywhere else and even under 40% between 10 and 16 feet. As crucial as adding the three point shot may be, Johnson is better off working on his mid range game as that is where the Celtics did most of their damage last year.
The mid range game has hurt Johnson throughout his career as he has shot under 40% in at least one mid range area in each year of his career.
David Lee is also oddly inconsistent in the mid range game. He also struggles in certain areas shooting around 30% both between 3 and 10 feet and between 16 feet and the three point line. The biggest difference, Lee shot the ball at a rate of 56% between 10 and 16 feet.
Lee has reached a point in his career where he knows exactly where his sweet spot is and that is something that Stevens could exploit. Having the ability to finish well at the rim as well as kill it in a mid range area will certainly get Lee minutes.
The Celtics have a lot good mid range shooters but Lee may be able to lead the pack, especially in that 10-16 feet range.
In terms of offensive finishing Lee and Johnson are pretty close. Johnson may get the slight edge because of that added potential with the three point shot but any edge he gains there may be lost in the turnover battle.
The Celtics depend on great ball movement and cannot afford to have players turning the ball over. Johnson has had a turnover percentage above 15% 7 different times in his career while Lee only eclipsed that point during the first two seasons of his career.
While Johnson may have more in his offensive arsenal, Lee is certainly a more trusted and reliable option. Johnson has more potential on the offensive end but he also has more to prove.
The Celtics will have a solid idea of what they will get out of Lee making Johnson’s potential the determining factor in this battle. Right now, the Celtics would be wise to go with the more reliable option but given there situation there is no doubting that Johnson will have an opportunity to surpass him.
Defense
Neither of these players have been known for their defensive prowess and they will be joining a team that, as a unit, may not be as good as their former teams. With Johnson, it’s hard to see him becoming a true factor on the defensive end. He has never averaged more than 1.6 blocks and more importantly, he has never averaged more than 7.5 rebounds. Johnson has been undersized but the Celtics need to get defensive production out of their small ball if they are going to keep using it.
Throw in that Johnson has peaked at 1 steal per game and he will certainly be a step backwards on the defensive end from Brandon Bass.
Lee, on the other hand, will be able to contribute in at least one area. Lee has 4 seasons with double digit rebounding and has collected at least 8.9 rebounds per game in each season except his first and his last.
The Celtics desperately need help rebounding and Lee should be one of the top rebounders on the team. Lee may not get enough minutes to break the double digit barrier once again but he has a good chance to be the top rebounding power forward on the team.
Other than rebounding, Lee is no upgrade over Johnson. He similarly does not block the ball and does not get steals but it should not be forgotten that he has been a main component of strong defensive teams. Lee may not do the work that elevates a team defensively but he, at the very least, allows them to excel if they have the necessary pieces.
The combo on Lee and Mickey could drastically change the face of the Celtics defense. Lee can bring some much needed rebounding and Mickey can bring the rim protection and if that is tied in with a great defensive back court the Celtics should be much improved this year.
Neither of these players were brought in for their defense but with how close they are on the offensive end, Lee’s ability to rebound the ball may win him the power forward battle.
bob
.
Position Battle: Johnson vs Lee
by Joshua Bateman 1d ago
The two most significant additions to the Boston Celtics this off season also happen to play the same position. Both Amir Johnson and David Lee will have an opportunity to start for the Celtics but they have some work to do before they prove they should start over Jared Sullinger.
Sullinger has been one of the better players on the Celtics and his three point shooting is embraced by Brad Stevens’ system. Sullinger has worked on his conditioning and he is determined to maintain his role on the team.
Both Johnson and Lee are more experienced and have more polished games but they may not be quite as dynamic as Sullinger.
Chances are both of the new additions will have large roles on the team but there may not be enough minutes to please all three of the top PF on the team and a potential breakout rookie in Jordan Mickey.
Throw in Jonas Jerebko‘s phenomenal three point shooting and the potential from Perry Jones and it will be a very interesting battle to see who comes out on top between Johnson and Lee.
Offense
Both of these players will have the largest impact on the offensive end and they will have an impact in a similar way. They are similarly undersized at 6’9 but that is not a problem with how often the Celtics play small ball. Lee has a weight advantage, weighing in at 35 pounds heavier but that may work in the favor of Johnson given Sullinger’s weight.
Neither of them have been legitimate threats from beyond the arc but Johnson has slightly more progress in that area. In the first 7 years of his career Johnson never had more than 5 three point attempts but he has increased ever since and peaked with 46 attempts last year. The sample size is too small to trust but seeing him hit 19 of those 46 is a good sign.
Lee, on the other hand, has attempted over 5 three point attempts just once and he hit a grand total of 0 of those attempts. Given how late it is in his career and with no signs that he may be able to add the three point shot it may be a lost cause attempting to make Lee a three point threat.
However, Johnson’s hints at being able to hit a three may wind up hurting him. The Celtics may push Johnson to make the three point shot a more prominent aspect of his arsenal and that may hurt him in other areas. Even if the potential is there for Johnson he does his best work within the three point line.
The Celtics had a lot of efficient finishers last year but Johnson may be the best. In his career he has never finished shooting the ball worse than 54.5%, and that is with taking at least 5.3 shot attempts over his past 5 seasons.
The biggest problem with Johnson is his mid range game may be lacking. Last season Johnson finished a scorching 70% of his shots within three feet of the rim but was under 50% everywhere else and even under 40% between 10 and 16 feet. As crucial as adding the three point shot may be, Johnson is better off working on his mid range game as that is where the Celtics did most of their damage last year.
The mid range game has hurt Johnson throughout his career as he has shot under 40% in at least one mid range area in each year of his career.
David Lee is also oddly inconsistent in the mid range game. He also struggles in certain areas shooting around 30% both between 3 and 10 feet and between 16 feet and the three point line. The biggest difference, Lee shot the ball at a rate of 56% between 10 and 16 feet.
Lee has reached a point in his career where he knows exactly where his sweet spot is and that is something that Stevens could exploit. Having the ability to finish well at the rim as well as kill it in a mid range area will certainly get Lee minutes.
The Celtics have a lot good mid range shooters but Lee may be able to lead the pack, especially in that 10-16 feet range.
In terms of offensive finishing Lee and Johnson are pretty close. Johnson may get the slight edge because of that added potential with the three point shot but any edge he gains there may be lost in the turnover battle.
The Celtics depend on great ball movement and cannot afford to have players turning the ball over. Johnson has had a turnover percentage above 15% 7 different times in his career while Lee only eclipsed that point during the first two seasons of his career.
While Johnson may have more in his offensive arsenal, Lee is certainly a more trusted and reliable option. Johnson has more potential on the offensive end but he also has more to prove.
The Celtics will have a solid idea of what they will get out of Lee making Johnson’s potential the determining factor in this battle. Right now, the Celtics would be wise to go with the more reliable option but given there situation there is no doubting that Johnson will have an opportunity to surpass him.
Defense
Neither of these players have been known for their defensive prowess and they will be joining a team that, as a unit, may not be as good as their former teams. With Johnson, it’s hard to see him becoming a true factor on the defensive end. He has never averaged more than 1.6 blocks and more importantly, he has never averaged more than 7.5 rebounds. Johnson has been undersized but the Celtics need to get defensive production out of their small ball if they are going to keep using it.
Throw in that Johnson has peaked at 1 steal per game and he will certainly be a step backwards on the defensive end from Brandon Bass.
Lee, on the other hand, will be able to contribute in at least one area. Lee has 4 seasons with double digit rebounding and has collected at least 8.9 rebounds per game in each season except his first and his last.
The Celtics desperately need help rebounding and Lee should be one of the top rebounders on the team. Lee may not get enough minutes to break the double digit barrier once again but he has a good chance to be the top rebounding power forward on the team.
Other than rebounding, Lee is no upgrade over Johnson. He similarly does not block the ball and does not get steals but it should not be forgotten that he has been a main component of strong defensive teams. Lee may not do the work that elevates a team defensively but he, at the very least, allows them to excel if they have the necessary pieces.
The combo on Lee and Mickey could drastically change the face of the Celtics defense. Lee can bring some much needed rebounding and Mickey can bring the rim protection and if that is tied in with a great defensive back court the Celtics should be much improved this year.
Neither of these players were brought in for their defense but with how close they are on the offensive end, Lee’s ability to rebound the ball may win him the power forward battle.
bob
.
bobheckler- Posts : 62620
Join date : 2009-10-28
Re: Position Battle: Johnson vs Lee
by Sam Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:58 pm
Personally, I think it's more likely that we'll see Lee and Johnson paired together than fighting for the same spot.
But the real news in this piece is unveiling of a new "armpit dunk" being perfected by David Lee (see picture).
Sam
But the real news in this piece is unveiling of a new "armpit dunk" being perfected by David Lee (see picture).
Sam
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Join date : 2009-10-10 -
Re: Position Battle: Johnson vs Lee
by dboss Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:04 pm
I expect to see Lee playing primarily as a BU center with maybe a few minutes at PF.
There are too many PF on this team so someone has to go.
waiting for a trade.
dboos
There are too many PF on this team so someone has to go.
waiting for a trade.
dboos
dboss- Posts : 19220
Join date : 2009-11-01
Re: Position Battle: Johnson vs Lee
by wide clyde Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:13 pm
There could certainly be a trade before the season starts that sees one or even two of our power forward type guys moved out, but if both Johnson and Lee are still on the team they will both help our rebounding and our defense this season. Yes, neither of them is a true center that most of us on Sam's Forum have been looking for but both of these guys are vets who know how to play the game.
Asking either of them to be the true center that the Cs need is unreasonable, in my opinion. And, the team is still going to have trouble defensively against the few big beasts that are still left in the league, but most teams do not have that guy like they almost all used to have.
Both Lee and Johnson are going to be better defenders than either Olynyk or Sullinger and may both outrebound each of our young guys as well (at least defensively).
I see Jerebko more as a small forward, and Mickey has yet to establish himself as an NBA contributor yet although he did look good in the summer leagues and may very well force himself into the mix for valuable playing time.
Asking either of them to be the true center that the Cs need is unreasonable, in my opinion. And, the team is still going to have trouble defensively against the few big beasts that are still left in the league, but most teams do not have that guy like they almost all used to have.
Both Lee and Johnson are going to be better defenders than either Olynyk or Sullinger and may both outrebound each of our young guys as well (at least defensively).
I see Jerebko more as a small forward, and Mickey has yet to establish himself as an NBA contributor yet although he did look good in the summer leagues and may very well force himself into the mix for valuable playing time.
wide clyde- Posts : 815
Join date : 2014-10-22
Re: Position Battle: Johnson vs Lee
by Outside Thu Aug 20, 2015 1:11 pm
Wow, it's not too often that Lee would be considered an upgrade on defense. Still, Lee's defense has improved over the past several seasons from glaring weakness to passable, so compared to Olynyk and Sullinger, he may indeed be an upgrade. Perhaps most important is that he's used to playing in a style at both ends of the floor similar to what Stevens seems to prefer. It will be interesting to see how he works out.wide clyde wrote:There could certainly be a trade before the season starts that sees one or even two of our power forward type guys moved out, but if both Johnson and Lee are still on the team they will both help our rebounding and our defense this season...
Both Lee and Johnson are going to be better defenders than either Olynyk or Sullinger and may both outrebound each of our young guys as well (at least defensively).
Outside- Posts : 3019
Join date : 2009-11-05
Re: Position Battle: Johnson vs Lee
by Sam Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:11 pm
Dboss, plus 1 on your expectations that Lee will see a fair amount of time at center. I've thought that since even before the rumor of a trade surfaced.
Whoever survives the big man rodeo, I bet we'll see Brad trying a lot of center/power forward combinations (although he'll probably refuse to call them that). He'll be looking to see which pairs best optimize both their collective offense and their collective defense.
Sam
Whoever survives the big man rodeo, I bet we'll see Brad trying a lot of center/power forward combinations (although he'll probably refuse to call them that). He'll be looking to see which pairs best optimize both their collective offense and their collective defense.
Sam
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Re: Position Battle: Johnson vs Lee
by dboss Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:19 pm
Outside wrote:Wow, it's not too often that Lee would be considered an upgrade on defense. Still, Lee's defense has improved over the past several seasons from glaring weakness to passable, so compared to Olynyk and Sullinger, he may indeed be an upgrade. Perhaps most important is that he's used to playing in a style at both ends of the floor similar to what Stevens seems to prefer. It will be interesting to see how he works out.wide clyde wrote:There could certainly be a trade before the season starts that sees one or even two of our power forward type guys moved out, but if both Johnson and Lee are still on the team they will both help our rebounding and our defense this season...
Both Lee and Johnson are going to be better defenders than either Olynyk or Sullinger and may both outrebound each of our young guys as well (at least defensively).
I do not consider a guy that cannot play defense an upgrade on defense. As a matter of fact the more I examine the additions of Johnson and lee the less I like it.
dboss
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