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cowens/oldschool wrote:Kelly has the strength to defend centers? really?

please get a pair of glasses or something, you must be blind, he can't defend PF or C.

That is the most unbelievable statement I have ever seen on this board.

KO has the strength to defend centers at an average or below average effectiveness.

He's neither dominant nor atrocious.

Your first mistake, Cowens, was putting so much confidence in your eye test, and failing to understand and factor in your confirmation bias.

You even think Dieng is somehow stronger than KO because he has longer arms, lol. That and a darker shade of skin, which I'm pretty sure colors some/much of the Olynyk hate.

112288 wrote:I'm pretty sure most of you guys would rather lose with a Perk than win with an Olynyk.

WHERE HAVE WE WON WITH KO????

WE LOST 4 STRAIGHT TO CLEVELAND!!!!!!

112288

and I didn't see Kelly do anything in the playoffs except yank on Kevin Loves arm. Sully coming back from an injury at 70% had way more playoff contributions/impact than Kelly.

That is a racist assumption.

Shame on you.

Dboss

kdp59 wrote:Kelly is more a poor mans Dirk , IMO.

as such if he reaches 70% of Dirks level, you play him at PF and need to have the Chandler type center next to him for maximum benefit.

I do think Amir can/will do some of those things.

but again, at best with those two we are talking about POOR MAN versions of Dirk and Chandler in their Championship season.

a Robin Lopez might have been a better choice, if I am correct.

Kelly is not a poor man's Dirk. He's a bankrupt Dirk.

rambone wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:Kelly has the strength to defend centers? really?

please get a pair of glasses or something, you must be blind, he can't defend PF or C.

That is the most unbelievable statement I have ever seen on this board.

KO has the strength to defend centers at an average or below average effectiveness.

He's neither dominant nor atrocious.

Your first mistake, Cowens, was putting so much confidence in your eye test, and failing to understand and factor in your confirmation bias.

You even think Dieng is somehow stronger than KO because he has longer arms, lol. That and a darker shade of skin, which I'm pretty sure colors some/much of the Olynyk hate.

I don't hate Kelly, now your getting racist, I never brought up Dieng ever, reread the posts. I think you owe the board an APOLOGY and out of respect to Sam, I will not rip into you.....

I loved Dave Cowens and Havlicek and Bird.....apologize you blankity-blank!!!!

I'm not accusing anybody of racism, but KO doesn't pass the "typical center" eye test. Namely a scowl like Perk or a bunch of tattoos like Birdman has.

When a goofy white Canadian nice guy, with long hair, gets dunked on or backed down and scored on, it fails the "eye test" a lot more than it would somebody else.

And the "eye test" is the only test KO actually fails, and it's all you can point to to support your argument that KO is a TERRIBLE defender.

I'm accusing you of unfounded racism, we got nothing against white players.

Look how far astray your little eye test has led you Cowens:

Opponent FG% within 8 feet of the hoop

Bogut 47.6%
Gobert 49.2%
Hibbert 51.1%

TZeller 54.9%
Olynyk 55.1%

Bosh 55.8%
ADavis 56.2
MGasol 56.3
Cousins 56.8
Garnett 56.8
Kantor 57.3

GDieng 60.7

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/oppshooting/?sort=Less%20Than%208%20ft.%20FG%20PCT&dir=-1&Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=C&DistanceRange=8ft%20Range

cowens/oldschool wrote:I'm accusing you of unfounded racism, we got nothing against white players.

so who am I racist against? You? My bringing up race was a clumsy, and regrettable way of pointing out how "Sunshine" Olynyk, Canadian nice guy, doesn't pass the "eye test" like Perk and most centers do with thier scowls.

I officially apologize.

You are obviously a stat geek, I still don't appreciate your racist comment and will do everyting in my power to ban you from the board.

rambone wrote:Look how far astray your little eye test has led you Cowens:

Opponent FG% within 8 feet of the hoop

Bogut 47.6%
Gobert 49.2%
Hibbert 51.1%

TZeller 54.9%
Olynyk 55.1%

Bosh 55.8%
ADavis 56.2
MGasol 56.3
Cousins 56.8
Garnett 56.8
Kantor 57.3

GDieng 60.7

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/oppshooting/?sort=Less%20Than%208%20ft.%20FG%20PCT&dir=-1&Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=C&DistanceRange=8ft%20Range

Now what's more important of these three factors:
- Eye test
- shots blocked
- opponent FG% within 8 feet of the basket?

Now that you know that KO actually does a mediocre job of defending centers, it should make perfect sense that the Celtics defense isn't worse with KO on the court than it is with him off the court. And given that our offense was 8 points better with KO on the court than off the court, it should be obvious that KO is a much better center than you previously thought, led astray as you were by your eye test and blocks statistics.

cowens/oldschool wrote:You are obviously a stat geek, I still don't appreciate your racist comment and will do everyting in my power to ban you from the board.

Or I could just quit. Then you won't experience the cognitive dissonance that occurs when your eye test is contradicted by stats.

Isn't that the real offense here?

Sam is no longer here, but we can still turn to him for guidance.

I started this forum for Celtics fans and their friends who desire a troll-free environment in which to engage in knowledgeable, congenial discussion and debate about the Celtics and basketball. We may even stray off-topic from time to time as appropriate. The only rigidity on this forum will be a no-nonsense enforcement of civil discussion.

https://samcelt.forumotion.net/t22-welcome-and-introduction-to-sam-s-free-celtics-forum

GUYS AS ONE OF THE ADMINISTRATORS I WILL HAVE TO ASK EVERYONE TO TAKE A DEEP BREATH AND TONE IT DOWN IN THE SPIRIT OF SAM.

THANK YOU!

112288

Passionate feelings are always welcomed.

Attacking one's character is not


Dboss

Accusing us of ganging up on KO because of his race is really beyond low and it is racist.....if it was up to me I would ban you.

I will never read or respond to any of your post's going forward.

Whatever your eye test is, it's not basketball related.

And all the stats back it up. Wins? Check. Team better with KO on the court than off? Check. Team leading plus minus? Check. Team leading Real Plus Minus? Check. Top 7 centers in steals per 100 possessions? Check. Middle of the pack Opponent FG% inside of 8 feet? Check. Top 3 center in 3 point shooting? Check. Good FT shooter? Check. Clutch shooter and performer in the 4th quarter of close games? Check.

Passes "eye test"? Denied.

Sorry guys. This thread has seen its better days. Now locked. I hope you all can agree to disagree and move on to a more productive discussion.

Once the heat blows over, hopefully you won't hold any grudges toward each other. Both of you bring a lot of basketball knowledge here.

Pete