Who would trade Marcus?

Since we are muddled in mediocre play, I am going to use this opportunity to over react. I love Marcus' heart and effort, but I'm afraid he is a poorer shooter than even Rondo. In theory it's possible to improve shooting, but Marcus has a long way to go. The kid ain't a natural. Should we consider moving him before everyone figures out his shooting is a fatal flaw, or do we hope he can improve and appreciate his defense and leadership? His value may not increase...

I would not be inclined to trade him despite his shooting woos.

dboss

Keep him.

How can you pre-determine without knowing what Danny would be getting in return ?

swish

Good defender, has shown he can shoot OK, can get himself to the rim, decent distributor as well. Just needs to stay healthy and on the floor.

Smart will probably be a key part of our guard rotation for a long time. Never say never, but it would have to be a deal that brings us another young building-block type player in return; preferably a forward.

Smart is a big physical guard and the Celtics need what he brings to the table.

He just needs to work on his mechanics. He is a keeper because he would be hard to replace. Besides, forwards need to be moved at present.

Dboss

dboss wrote:Smart is a big physical guard and the Celtics need what he brings to the table.

He just needs to work on his mechanics. He is a keeper because he would be hard to replace.  Besides, forwards need to be moved at present.

Dboss

dboss,

I agree, on all points, especially the one about having to work on his mechanics. Other than that, he pretty much has a lot going for him: size, strength, instincts, grit and ganas by the gallon. He just needs to stop being cringeworthy when he shoots.


bob


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Who would trade Marcus? I don't think Beat would. My impression is that he likes the kid.

Smart, Payton, Schroder comparison.

http://bkref.com/tiny/H3FHU

Smarts offensive struggles are obvious but one stat caught my eye in the above charts and that is Smarts very low 2 point field goal attempts per game. A check of field goal attempts at the rim yielded the following figures for the 3 players.

2014-15 seasons.

Schroder - Total minutes played - 2289 - field goal attempts at the rim - 452 - That's a shot every 5.1 minutes.
Payton - Total minutes played - 3488 - field goal attempts at the rim - 468 - That's a shot every 7.5 minutes.
Smart - Total minutes played - 2221 - field goal attempts at the rim - 133 - That's a shot every 16.7 minutes.

Not very good at getting to the rim.

swish

swish wrote:Smart, Payton, Schroder comparison.

http://bkref.com/tiny/H3FHU

Smarts offensive struggles are obvious but one stat caught my eye in the above charts and that is Smarts very low 2 point field goal attempts per game. A check of field goal attempts at the rim yielded the following figures for the 3 players.

    2014-15 seasons.

 Schroder - Total minutes played - 2289 - field goal attempts at the rim - 452 - That's a shot every 5.1 minutes.
 Payton    - Total minutes played - 3488 - field goal attempts at the rim - 468 - That's a shot every 7.5 minutes.
 Smart     - Total minutes played - 2221 - field goal attempts at the rim - 133 - That's a shot every 16.7 minutes.

Not very good at getting to the rim.

  swish

swish,

Not necessarily. He might not take a lot of 2pt fgas because Brad's system is telling him to space the floor by staying out at the arc. Put him in another system and that number might go much higher.


bob


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If he is going to just stand out on the perimeter you may as well put a shooter out there since his point guard skills as an assist man are nothing to brag about. I don't see much in his offensive game to get excited about right now. Of course he won't be 22 until March so we will have to wait to see if he can make some big time improvements in his shooting.

swish

swish wrote:If he is going to just stand out on the perimeter you may as well put a shooter out there since his point guard skills as an assist man are nothing to brag about. I don't see much in his offensive game to get excited about right now. Of course he won't be 22 until March so we will have to wait to see if he can make some big time improvements in his shooting.

swish

swish,

I agree. Not only is his offensive game much to get excited about, it's not good and I agree with you about putting a shooter out there instead. I was just pointing out that Smart's 2 pt fgas/game might be the result of Brad's system and not a failing of his. I think his shooting problems go far beyond "needs practice and time". I hope I'm wrong, of course.


bob


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bob

I'm not so sure about the system being the culprit because Thomas, under this system this year, has taken 175 shots at the rim in 1206 minutes for an average of a shot every 6.9 minutes.

swish

swish wrote:bob

I'm not so sure about the system being the culprit because Thomas, under this system this year, has taken 175 shots at the rim in 1206 minutes for an average of a shot every 6.9 minutes.

swish

swish,

That's his job. His job is to have the ball in his hands and to penetrate and shoot or dish. Smart's job is to play defense and catch-and-shoot.


bob


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Swish

Those stats are revealing.

Smart will drive to the rim occasionally but not as much as you would expect from your PG.

Part of the problem is that he is not really that quick. Taking his man off the dribble is not one of his strong points. I think that if he can improve his jump shooting it may open up more opportunities for him to drive the ball to shoot or to pass.

dboss

So at this point in time he can't catch and shoot and he doesn't take the ball to the rim (create his own shot ). Now that's what I call offensively challenged. Here's hoping that he can get his act together in the next year or so.
swish

dboss

Like you say, it would appear that quickness may be an issue with his role at point guard. I also wonder if his handle is of point guard quality. Time to sit back and watch to see what Smart can do to shape his future.

swish

no one is off limits on this team, IMO.

of course it depends in the player coming back.

Think of Smart as a smaller version of Dennis Rodman. He didn't score a lot either but he sure helped the Bulls a few times and was a very big intangible. I'd keep him.

db

Smart is a very good role player. He, like many of this season's Celtics, can perform their role but they can't do those other things necessary for a winning team. We need a pass first point guard who can hit his shot. That's not Smart. We need a lights out defender, that is Smart. His role his important but getting a defender not quite as good who can score would be an upgrade. Danny needs to upgrade the roster where he can and add star quality players who can lead the team to #18. The right deal comes along Smart is gone. But his value will continue to increase once he gets past his rookie contract. Lot's of upside with him like many others on this roster. Unfortunately, that upside is not up far enough to lend hope to #18 without at least a couple of key additions. Within two years this will be a serious championship contender with at least one if not two new, star caliber players. And then there is the draft and all those picks.

Referenced tonight's game. That is why he is a keeper.

Dboss

Outside wrote:Who would trade Marcus? I don't think Beat would. My impression is that he likes the kid.

Anyones tradeable for the right price............but he just seems to make things happen.

Seen a lot of kids with talent but they needed a fork in the ars to get it going.
Smart walks on the court with two forks already in his, I can't believe there is a guard in the league that relishes coming up court and seeing this bulldog digging in on D.

beat

At this point in time it could be that Marcus should be viewed as a strictly defensive talent and utilized in the same fashion that Red did with K C Jones in his 1st few years in the league; as a non shooting backup to Cousy.

Jones's stats below.

  http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/joneskc01.html

  swish

beat wrote:

Outside wrote:Who would trade Marcus? I don't think Beat would. My impression is that he likes the kid.

Anyones tradeable for the right price............but he just seems to make things happen.

Seen a lot of kids with talent but they needed a fork in the ars to get it going.
Smart walks on the court with two forks already in his, I can't believe there is a guard in the league that relishes coming up court and seeing this bulldog digging in on D.

beat

LOL beat -- I meant YOUR Marcus, not Marcus Smart. But maybe you'd trade your own kid for the right price?

Outside wrote:

beat wrote:

Outside wrote:Who would trade Marcus? I don't think Beat would. My impression is that he likes the kid.

Anyones tradeable for the right price............but he just seems to make things happen.

Seen a lot of kids with talent but they needed a fork in the ars to get it going.
Smart walks on the court with two forks already in his, I can't believe there is a guard in the league that relishes coming up court and seeing this bulldog digging in on D.

beat

LOL beat -- I meant YOUR Marcus, not Marcus Smart. But maybe you'd trade your own kid for the right price?

Guess that went right over my head.............lots of things do

beat