ESPN Lists Top Celtics Trade Targets And Most Tradeable Celtics

http://redsarmy.com/2016/01/13/should-the-celtics-pursue-rudy-gay-or-hassan-whiteside/



Should the Celtics pursue Rudy Gay or Hassan Whiteside?


Chuck - Red's Army


January 13, 2016








ESPN Insider has kicked off a new series examining trade targets for each of the 30 teams. They start with the Celtics and, well, prepare to be underwhelmed:

DeMarcus Cousins
If and when the Kings decide to move on from the Cousins era, Boston is a logical destination. Cousins has long been connected to Boston in the rumor mill and would give the Celtics the centerpiece talent that could bring their roster into focus. The Celtics have a strong organizational culture with which to surround Cousins, if Ainge and head coach Brad Stevens want to accept the challenge.

Rudy Gay
The Celtics have the role players and wing defenders that could help balance the Kings’ roster. Meanwhile, Gay would give the Celtics a legit No. 2 scorer and the ability to play big on the wing or team Gay with Jae Crowder in a versatile frontcourt.
Hassan Whiteside

Whiteside will be a free agent, and if his financial ambitions are beyond Miami’s limits, Boston makes sense as a trade partner. He could shore up the Celtics’ defensive rebounding and rim protection deficiencies, keeping the defensive rating elite while giving Stevens the flexibility to play offensive players around him.

No surprise that Cousins is option #1. I’m still unsure about this guy. He’s vastly talented but temperamental. But with the Celtics mired in a losing streak, I’m starting to believe they should roll the dice on cornerstone talent.

I’d pass on Rudy Gay because (at 29) I feel like his best years are behind him. Am I crazy to think Avery Bradley, albeit he lacks Gay’s size, would equal Gay’s scoring if you gave him 16-17 shots per night?

Whiteside is a punk. Just ask Kelly Olynyk (https://vine.co/v/OEEqj3aDiK3). Yes, he fills a giant void (shot blocking and rebounding) but scouts criticize his lack of team defense and passing. Something tells me he’ll be an even bigger prick once he gets paid.

Insider lists Smart, Olynyk and Thomas as the Celtics with the most trade value. And because his “versatility might have value on a team with such a need,” Evan Turner is the most likely to be traded.


bob
MY NOTE:  I've gone on record as agreeing with Chuck that I'd roll the dice with Cousins and trade for a cornerstone, franchise talent like him.  Rudy Gay will be 30 in August.  That is not old and, quite frankly, we need to get older.  We are TOO young right now.  So I'd be alright with trading for Gay, it would boil down to the price.  There is almost no price I would not be willing to pay for Cousins, he is just so much of an upgrade over anybody we have and anybody we are likely to get by trade or draft.  Whiteside is a talent, and he fills a need we have, but I see him as DeMarcus Cousins without all the talent and skills.  Same bad attitude but can't score like Boogie, pass like Boogie, or rebound like Boogie but he's going to want a comparable contract.  That's why Miami won't be able to keep him, the money.  The only thing he does better than Boogie, the only thing I am aware of, is block shots.  He's also a 60% frito shooter, so he's one of the modern crop of NBA centers who can't shoot from further than 8' away.  Boogie is a career 73% frito shooter, shooting 74.5% this year and, if you look at his clutch ft%, he has shot clutch fritos better than his season-average in 3 out of the last 4 years.  THAT is what we want and need, a player who plays better in the clutch than normal.  I know I'm beating a dead horse, opinions are pretty much locked in by now, I'm just pointing out that some of our 4th quarter execution problems would go away if we had another clutch performer.

On the other side, I'm open to trading Smart.  I love his defense but I'm becoming quite concerned his lack of a shooting touch makes that uncorrectable.  I would not give him away, but I could be convinced for the right talent in return. Thomas I would not trade, he does what he does as well as anybody and that's what we need.  Kelly is available, as is all but a very few players on this team.  I find it interesting and a bit amusing that the player that many people on this board would be less willing to part with, Jared Sullinger, is in less demand on the trade front than the player they'd be happy to trade away.


bob


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I'd roll the dice for Boogie in a canary's heartbeat.

No to Rudy Gay. Boston needs more efficient shooting, and Rudy is notoriously inefficient.

No to Hassan Whiteside. He puts up gaudy rebounding and shotblocking numbers, but he won't leave the paint to defend, making him vulnerable to any big who can hit a mid-range shot or better. He also goes for blocks at the expense of position. The net result is that, despite all the blocks and rebounds, Miami is better defensively when Whiteside sits compared to when he plays. He's fool's gold.

If Cousins isn't available, there have to be better options than Gay and Whiteside out there.

Hi,
I'd stay put and wait for summer sweepstakes. Maybe Danny can snatch KD, who knows.

AK

Cousins, Gay, Whiteside ......I say NO to all of them.

From what we have seen Boston needs to add a solid BU for Crowder and a solid backup for Bradley.  So we need a 2 and a 3 or if we are lucky a 2/3 would be nice.  And we need a rim protector who can also be respectable on offense.

Gay looks horrible whenever I watch the Kings.  You already know what I think about Cousins and as far as Whiteside is concerned he has little offense to give us.  

I think the Celtics need to pair down their 4 position and they should look to move a forward at the very least.  They need to add a shooter to the mix.

The Nets pick is too intriguing to part with before we know what it will be.  The other 2 first rounders this year and even the high 2nd round pick could be used now along with players to make a deal.  But the Nets pick is off limits.

dboss

To me, Cousins is a no-brainer to go after.
He is the best and most talented big man in the league and has an under market contract.
Boston needs a star or stars. They need a true #1. Cousins is that guy.
Boston is a mediocre team with decent young talent, but nobody that looks like a perennial all-star.
Sometimes you have to go all in, take a chance. Maybe even with a player who has a quirky or prickly personality, like Cousins has.
The Lakers tried that with Dwight and Nash.
It obviously didn't work, but it was the right risk to take at the time.

Rudy Gay won't move the needle much at all. Boston should pass on him.
What about Greg Monroe from Milwaukee?
What about Roy Hibbert just for rim protection for this year?
Hibbert for Lee and a high second round pick?

http://bkref.com/tiny/mzkJp                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Above link is a listing of all the centers and center forwards 6'9" or taller that have played at least 450 minutes this year. They are sorted by minutes played. Those players with at least 900 minutes played are more than likely in the starting rotation while those with  between 450 and 900 minutes would be the 6th, 7th and 8th players off the bench. Anyone on that list that you would like to see in a Celtic uniform ?

swish

http://bkref.com/tiny/yjOnp

Above is a list of forwards and forward guards

swish

thanks for that list swish, Basketball reference is one of my favorite places to get info from.

when I look at your list , my favorites for a CENTER upgrade would be:

1) Cousins- I know all the bad stuff, but IF he becomes available I would make a play for him. My best trade offer would be Lee, Sully (or Kelly) , Rozier, any NON Net first this year and a 2018 first round pick for Cousins and Collison.

2) Brook Lopez- He has had foot issues, but he not Walton when it comes to injuries either. Not sure the Nets would move him and probably NOT to Boston. But if they would , I offer them Lee, Zeller, one of our first this year (not theirs back ) and maybe a couple second round picks.

3) G. Dieng- Not near the player that either of the first two are, but a legit rim protector and young player. Again no reason for Minny to move him yet, but if they want to...........I'd be happy to send Sully and even give Minny back their heavily protected first rounder back in the deal (basically giving them 2 seconds back).

4) Hibbert- UFA after the year and slow, but hes also BIG. I think if Ainge wanted him he could have gotten him this off-season myself, since the Lakers gave up only a second round pick for him. But IF Mitch wants his draft pick back, I'd send Lee and a second rounder for Hibbert for the rest of the year. Stevens can see if there is any future there or not the rest of this season.

kdp59

Your welcome. I like your top 3 picks. I would even sweetened the pot for Lopez. His ability to shoot the Jump shot increases his value to spread the floor. Dieng caught my eye also. With the addition of Towns to the Minny roster Its possible that he could be available. As far as Hibbert,- . I would rather have a totem pole - A big one of course. And Cousins is a "no brainer ? " ( but very desirable)
swish

I would also take Cousins because his talents are undeniable. He would have a chance to play in a system that suits his abilities, he will help the team become a winning team and greatly accelerate the rebuild.

Lee, one of the many other forwards on the roster, a couple of number ones and a slew of number twos for Cousins (and maybe a Sacremento bench player to make salaries work) in a heart beat. I would very much consider using Jordan Mickey or Rozier and even the Nets pick in a trade for Cousins.

No to Hibbert. I haven't seen the Lakers much this year, but he strikes me as awful. Here are his per-game stats -- 25 minutes, 6.7 points, 5.9 rebounds, 42.7% FG, 1.6 blocks. The dude is 7-2 and his preferred shot is a 12-15 footer that more often than not clanks off the back rim.

I think the Celtics would be better off trading for a perimeter shooter or two rather than a center.

Outside,

I agree 100% that Hibbert should not become a member of the Celtics.  He may be big, but being big is not all that we need. We have a 7'2 neighbor
that the Cs do not need either.

Stevens is good enough to perhaps find a way to make this guy fit in somehow, but I hope that he (Stevens) never has to try.

why I put Hibbert on the list.

1) I simply send David Lee (who is firmly on the bench now) and one of our MANY second round picks to the Lakers for him.

2) Hibbert is a Free agent at the end of the year ( Like Lee).

3) Hibbert is 29YO now.

4) Hibbert is a LEGIT NBA center size wise and is a very good rim protector.

so sending the Lakers back the second round pick and Lee's matching salary for Hibbert (who reports are they are willing to move to a playoff team). makes a lot of sense to me , IF one of the other Centers I listed cannot be traded for.

If Hibbert comes here, there are two scenarios in my mind:

1) He doesn't fit in and plays sparingly (like Lee) the rest of the year and then signs somewhere else in the off-season. Costing Danny only one of the, I think FOUR second round picks he has in this coming draft.

2) Hibbert gives us the rim protection (at times) and more importantly the SIZE we WILL need come playoff time and Brad finds a way to fit him into his system. Then Danny can make a decision about re-signing him in the off-season or not.

almost a no lose situation to me, but again ONLY if one of the better options does not come into play.

Makez sense to me.

Hibbert for Lee makes sense because neither of them would be helping the team.  Lee doesn't play, for whatever reason, and Hibbert is the anti pace-and-space paragon.  If we were playing a team like Utah with the extra-long but puny Gobert, or Houston with the powerful and big Howard, or the Clippers with the powerful and big Jordan, then Hibbert might work because they are either too weak to move him off his spot and not able to out-quick even him (Gobert) or are a good matchup for (Howard and Jordan).  Neither of those last two will be using quickness against the lead-footed Hibbert.  Since we wouldn't be using Hibbert for offense it doesn't matter what Gobert or the others' defensive abilities are.  If they leave Hibbert to go after others he gets a dunk and that's all we'd need from him.  Against some of the newer, modern, more mobile centers we're seeing (e.g. Vucevic of Orlando, Monroe, Towns, Horford, Zaza) they'd run circles around Hibbert.  The first 3 of those would torment Hibbert from mid-range and then, if he ventured outside the dotted circle, blow past him like he was standing still, which he would be. Zaza, as we saw last night against Sully, will just flat-outwork Hibbert and beat him to the ball every time.

Back when I was living in the past and wanted a team that looked like the Championship teams of the past that I knew and that I knew worked, I wanted Hibbert.  After watching Champions and Championship Contenders GSW, Cleveland and Miami (when LeBron was there) for the past half dozen years or so I'm finally starting to wrap my mind around the fact that the league isn't like that anymore and my wishing it wasn't so won't change a thing.  Someday, once again, dinosaurs might walk the earth, sure, but for the foreseeable future it's going to look like Kristaps Porzingis, the Greek Freak and, maybe Ben Simmons; 7'+ tigers that can run like gazelles, can spread the floor with long-range bombs and can go over people rather than just through them like Sully tries to do.  If you're going to do that you have to be very, very good at it, like LaMarcus Aldridge, and Aldridge isn't playing center. I'm not willing to wait for the return of the age of dinosaurs for #18, especially since I have no idea when, or even if, it is coming back. Adapt or die.

Trading Hibbert for Lee is just rolling the ball down court like trading Wallace for Lee was.  I think a difference might be that Lee has more trade value than Hibbert, so packaging Hibbert in the off season on a sign-and-trade might be harder than with Lee.  Wallace had no hops left, just heart.  Lee can play but he isn't and an argument could be made that Brad is just going with youth and that it isn't about Lee.  Hibbert is playing, he's playing on a God-awful team, and he sucks.  There is no mystery about what you would be getting if you traded for him.


bob


.

Bob,

I am not a big Hibbert fan, but I guess I would see him in Boston if Lee and maybe a second round pick is all we have to give up for him.

Kind of like one bag of used practice balls for an old med kit type of trade. Their current performances are about equal. Their salaries are pretty much the same in both money and duration. Neither team is likely to benefit very much, and neither team is likely to resign either player for next year.

But, you also can never tell what a change-of-scenery trade can for any NBA player.

bob,

"I'm finally starting to wrap my mind around the fact that the league isn't like that anymore and my wishing it wasn't so won't change a thing. Someday, once again, dinosaurs might walk the earth,"
Bulls eye ! Keep up with the times or risk becoming obsolete.

swish

Neither Lee or Hibbert are of any long term value to the Celtics other than their value as expiring contracts in a trade this year. Would either of them help to bring a title to Boston this year ?

swish

swish wrote:Neither Lee or Hibbert are of any long term value to the Celtics other than their value as expiring contracts in a trade this year.  Would either of them help to bring a title to Boston this year ?

swish

Boston is most likely not winning a Championship this season with Lee, Hibbert or probably even LeBron.
Hibbert could provide more value to Boston because his talents are different than anyone else on the team.
I think the Lakers would move Hibbert for the #31 pick from Boston via Philly.
I would not help another team just to get a pick in the 50's.

tjmakz wrote:

swish wrote:Neither Lee or Hibbert are of any long term value to the Celtics other than their value as expiring contracts in a trade this year.  Would either of them help to bring a title to Boston this year ?

swish

Boston is most likely not winning a Championship this season with Lee, Hibbert or probably even LeBron.
Hibbert could provide more value to Boston because his talents are different than anyone else on the team.
I think the Lakers would move Hibbert for the #31 pick from Boston via Philly.
I would not help another team just to get a pick in the 50's.

I guess that I'm the only poster on this board that's not interested in seeing the Celtics changing their roster this year unless it has the possibility of impacting the future in a positive way. To me an extra handful of wins this year only means a lower draft pick. I'm all for looking ahead to the near future and the promise of a very successful rebuild. By the way, it should be interesting to watch the progress that your Lakers and the Celtics make as the makeover unfolds. Both are blessed with very desirable draft picks and tons of cap space. Long live the Celtics and the Lakers.

swish

Swish, that makes sense too. A trade should only take place that makes next year's team better.