BOOGIE'S A MONSTER AND LOVE CAN PLAY, BUT CELTICS SHOULD HOLD OUT FOR BEN SIMMONS

WEEI

With all due respect to DeMarcus Cousins (left) and Kevin Love (right), the real prize if you're the Celtics is Ben Simmons. (Getty Images)
Things you can't rush: open-heart surgery, braised veal shanks, growing an oak tree from an acorn.

Oh, and NBA rebuilds.

Danny Ainge knows this. The Celtics president has remarkably transformed the organization since Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett shared their last high-five in green during the 2013 playoffs. He stripped the roster of every tradeable asset outside of Avery Bradley, bid a bittersweet farewell to coach Doc Rivers, and began what looked to be a hopelessly arduous journey.

Yet here we stand, not even three years later, and Ainge already finds himself at a crossroads.

The Celtics as constituted do not threaten the Warriors or Cavs. Or even the Raptors for that matter. But they're moving in the right direction, with a tremendous young coach in Brad Stevens and even an All-Star in guard Isaiah Thomas.

What they need now is a superstar, and Ainge has the ammunition to go get him. The only problem is this: doing so could set the franchise back a decade.

That crossroads Ainge currently ponders actually marks the intersection of three paths. Down the first he'll find one of the most tantalizing talents in the NBA, Kings center DeMarcus Cousins, fresh off a 56-point outburst, not to mention his second straight All-Star berth.

Cousins is a game-changer, but he might also be a culture changer, and not for good. His list of transgressions is long and his temper is short. He perennially leads the NBA in technical fouls, and he has been suspended at least half a dozen times for everything from insubordination to confronting a rival broadcaster to hitting below the belt.

In short, he's a gamble with a capital 'G,' the kind of player who could give the Celtics the most formidable inside presence in the Eastern Conference but also tear apart a roster that's already straining to find minutes for veterans like David Lee, Tyler Zeller and Jonas Jerebko.

Acquiring Cousins almost certainly would require forfeiting the Nets' No. 1 pick in the upcoming draft, which very well could land in the top three, as well as other valuable picks down the road. If Ainge wants to roll that dice, he'd better use two hands and both legs.

So what leads down road No. 2? A player the Celtics have openly lusted after for a couple of years now, but without success, and one who represents a risk of a different nature.

Kevin Love would be a great fit in Stevens' offensive system, thanks to his ability to score on the block or at the 3-point line. The Celtics need floor spacers, and Love is a threat virtually anywhere.

He also wouldn't be hearing his name discussed at all if he were producing up to his Minnesota standards. Since arriving in Cleveland alongside LeBron James and Kyrie Irving, Love has struggled to find his place. Only two years removed from averaging over 26 points and 12 rebounds a game, the three-time All-Star has seen those numbers drop to 15.7 and 10.8 this year.

He's shooting a full-season career-worst .418 from the field, and when the Cavs called a team meeting to announce the firing of coach David Blatt on Sunday, ESPN reported that multiple Cleveland players assumed Love had been traded.

General manager David Griffin since has declared Love unavailable, but that hasn't stopped speculation from mounting that he could be dealt just months after signing a five-year, $113 million extension.

And the Celtics naturally keep materializing as a potential landing spot, with respected NBA writers Adrian Wojnarowski and Chris Mannix speculating that a package revolving around underrated forward Jae Crowder could entice the Cavs.

That's a tantalizing thought, even though Crowder represents a far better fit in Stevens' defensive system than Love, who's a liability on that end of the floor. Crowder probably won't ever be an All-Star, however, an honor Love already has attained three times at age 27. If the Celtics could acquire the big man while his value has dropped, and without surrendering any of New Jersey's picks, that's the kind of proposition that could make a man like Ainge go, "Hmmmm."

And why is it so important to retain Brooklyn's upcoming pick? Two words: Ben Simmons.

The 6-foot-10 LSU freshman has arrived even better than advertised in Baton Rouge, showcasing a fantastic all-around game and averaging nearly 20 points, 13 rebounds and five assists a game. He handles the ball, sees the floor and cleans the glass. His ceiling is insanely high, and he's the probable No. 1 overall pick in June.

Even if the Nets maintain their current pace and finish with the league's third-worst record, the Celtics would only own a 15.6 percent chance of claiming the top pick. Those are lousy odds, but nonetheless too high to ignore. Ainge intimated as much during a preseason interview.

"You really have to hang on to even the smallest of percentages of picks that could turn into a transcendent player," Ainge said.

Simmons is that player, and the fact that the Celtics could reach the playoffs as a top-four seed and still land him this summer makes keeping the pick paramount. Put it in a box and bury it alongside that acorn.

That's why the Celtics should say no on the insanely talented (and quite possibly insane) Cousins. It's why they should only consider Love if the price is right.

There's one prize, and he's 19 years old by way of Australia. Until the Celtics know for sure that Simmons is off the table, Ainge should stay patient and stay the course, because if there's one way to accelerate an NBA rebuild, it's by winning the lottery.

112288

112288,

Your points are pretty good, but I would trade the Nets pick in a quick second for Cousins if I had the chance.  I believe that many of his previous troubles have come from being in a terrible position for his entire NBA career, and just cannot believe that this guy would not love playing with Crowder, Smart and Thomas, etc and for Stevens.

Cousins would immediately become the star that the Cs need for a quicker shot at banner #18 than Simmons would be.  There are many guys on the Celtics current roster who can make very solid contributions to winning banner #18, but most will likely be gone when Simmons is ready to be such a similar star in the NBA.

Adding Cousins now (even without adding a second star until the summer) would very much make the Cs a very serious threat for the Cavs in the East this season. Simmons should not be expected to do such a thing before at least 2020, in my opinion just like Sacremento had no right asking Cousins to do the same for their franchise when they drafted him when he was 20 year old.

Getting Cousins for the last third of this season would also help the Cs find their second 'star' for next year by way of free agency next summer.  Drafting Simmons this summer is not going to help add any such 'second star' for next season, and Simmons is very much not likely to be a star next season for whatever team drafts him.

If the Kings would gamble on being able to get Simmons with the Nets pick, David Lee (for the financial aspect of all NBA trades), Sullinger and James Young I would personally escort/deliver these three guys to the west coast.  Perhaps another first rounder and even if Jordan Mickey had to be included, I would include him as well.

Simmons is still completely NBA untested in soooo many ways.  First, he may (although probably very unlikely) not even enter the draft this year.  Second, there is absolutely no way the Cs have any kind of guarantee that they will get the opportunity to draft him (The ping pong balls have not been kind to the Cs over the years as we all know).  Third, although he has great upside, he may never come close to scoring 24-26 points and getting 12+ rebounds like Cousins is doing and will likely do for a bunch more years.

Kevin Love is NOT the answer for the Cs and I really do not think that Ainge likes him as much as some writers have mentioned.  Olynyk is shooting threes better than Love, Sullinger is rebounding better than Love, Johnson plays much better defense than Love (Cripes, I may play better defense than Love and Love is also not a 'small ball' center for us) and whichever guys that do not get traded for him will lose minutes.

Wide,

If Cousins would take sedatives ....yes by all means.

112288

only include the pick in any trade, if it is top 3 protected.

after the top three players, we are getting a player of Smart's caliber or less, IMO from this draft.

so IF the Kings decide to listen to offers for Cousins....

Danny wants him..................

My trade idea of Lee, Sully and Rozier along with 2016 Dallas pick, 2016 T-wolves pick (really two seconds) and 2018 Celtics or Nets pick for Cousins and Collison is a good starting point.

to get it done however Danny WOULD have to include the Nets pick this coming year instead of Dallas or our own pick.

Top 3 protecting that pick, and sending them both Dallas and our own pick instead would do it for me.

right now my second best trade option would be for Horford IF he becomes available .

I am cool on Love now, though if he could be acquired for say Sully, Lee and either our own or the Dallas pick and maybe a second rounder.....it would be buying Low to me and would be worth it.

I don't like Gallinari at all here and I see Kelly as a better player who does the same things.

I very much think that the guy Cousins has been throughout most of his career that draws negative attention from his superlative on-court play can all be attributed to many things that were not under his control.

Yes, there is no question that this guy has to take some of the blame for his own hot headed actions, but if you check back into his career he has been very much subjected to many and varied frustrations that he had no control over.

First, because the Sacremento Kings have been such a mess for such a long time that this team allowed themselves and their fans to believe that at 20 years old Cousins could immediately be their team leader and franchise player.  How unreasonable are those expectations to be placed on a rookie who is only 20?  Of course, Larry Bird kind of succeeded in leading his team very early in his career, but how many Larry Birds are there?  If the Kings had any decent veteran talent and leadership on their team when Cousins was drafted, he would have had far less pressure that it probably was not fair to place on a very immature kid.

Second, how many head coaches have the Kings had since Cousins was drafted?  I think that the number is now at five and Cousins is still only 25.   Nice continuity by the Kings, and what toll did Cousins pay for such a mess?  They had one coach (Malone) who seemed to connect with Cousins and then they fired him soon after.  Karl came in late last year, and for some reason could not escape the concept that he (Karl) wanted Cousins traded even before signing his coaching contract.  All great stuff to throw onto a young kid who happens to be your team's best player from the second he was drafted.

Third, and certainly no surprise, is that the Kings have not won more than 29 games (they should win more this year, however if they continue to play well) for much longer than the time Cousins has been in town.  Not obtaining much talent to go with Cousins, changing head coaches over and over again, front office turmoil, etc, etc, etc only promotes more losing.  I am sure everyone on this forum remembers our Petino years and how frustrated we all were with his mess.   Well, is it unfair to say that Cousins could have been just as frustrated with the Kings mess?  Did you ever send a cuss word at your TV or towards one of the local writers during the Petino years?  I know that I did, but I did not get the technical fouls that Cousins got on the floor to help earn him part of his current reputation.

Sure Cousins came into the NBA not ready to handle what was thrown at him to include the overly high expectations, but he has never been accused of not working hard nor
accused of being a poor teammate to my limited knowledge. I would very much like to hear IT's thoughts on Cousins as a worker and as a teammate.

He has grown as a player and has matured as a young man.  I am sure that all of us grew up a lot between age 20 and age 25 (and, most of us did not have to deal with trying to be our NBA team's best player and leader during those years).  Just think what this guy could bring to a team that has some talent and player leadership, has a very stable and exceptional young head coach with a great staff, to a team that has already developed a 'team' concept and would not need to expect him to be the 'only' guy (savior?) on the team??

I say give up the Nets first pick this year, a second first round pick, two, three or four second round picks, Lee, Young, and Sullinger for Cousins and a filler guy and make a run at Cleveland in the East RIGHT NOW if Sacremento will trade this guy!  Nothing wrong with using a big pile of the many draft picks that Ainge has for the BEST center in the league as there is no way that all of these draft picks will even ever see a summer league practice session for the Celtics.

He is signed to a contract that is currently equal to what David Lee (even though Lee doesn't even play any more) makes right now, and is signed to that same very decent contract for two more full seasons. Even if he flops in Boston next year he will still be a player who will be easy to trade as he will have a more than reasonable expiring contract heading into 2017. He is still only 25 years old.  He has also had a very limited history of injuries.

Cousins could very easily become the KEY to getting another "star" player to join the Cs this summer during free agency.  Sure money talks to players, but a guy like Durant is going to get just about the same money from everyone he talks to, so let's consider the other factor when a top quality free agent signs somewhere--chance of winning.
Labron and Bosh went to Miami to win and so have other guys gone to different places to win.  I believe that "the winning" angle will be present in Boston for Durant and others much more if Cousins is here more than if Simmons is here next summer.

Banner #18 is much closer with Cousins in a Cs uniform than it will be with Simmons in a Cs uniform.

I'm for holding on to the present team as they are constantly improving and have established good chemistry. They are really coming on and it is too early to be breaking that up in IMO. The only exception I would make would be trading the Nets 1st round pick and whatever else in draft picks/players we would have to give up for Cousins, and I would only be in favor of that if Stevens is fully on board. After all, he's the one who would have to coach him.

Berlin-T

Our only chance for Simmons is with the Brooklyn pick.  Today, that would be the #3 pick, which isn't going to cut it.  Furthermore, Minny is only 2 games better than Brooklyn.  So a small winning streak by Brooklyn and we become #4 and the odds of getting the #1 drop.  The win streak is doable because Brooklyn has a game vs @ LAL, @ Minny and 2 with Philly.  Those are 4 winnable games.  Certainly, 3 of them are.  Minny has 1 vs LAL, the game at home vs Brooklyn and that's it.  No pure gimmes against Philly, everybody they play against is definitely better than them.

The odds of the worst team in the league getting the #1 pick is 1-out-of-4.  The odds of the #2 worst team getting #1 is 1-out-of-5.  The odds of the #3 worst team getting the #1 pick is 1-out-of-6.5.  The odds of the #4 worst team getting the #1 pick is 1-out-of-9.  That's just through 4 and we're not guaranteed #3 or #4.  Brooklyn could have the 3rd worst record in the league but the pingpong balls put us in 5th or 6th.  

I'm not that much of a gambling man.  I'll take the lower returns on the sure thing.  I'd give up the Brooklyn pick +++ for Cousins in a hummingbird's heartbeat.  We won't have to wait for Cousins to develop his game, learn the NBA or for the refs to learn him.  We won't have to wonder if his body can handle it.

Not going to happen, the only way we're going to get DeMarcus Cousins out of Sacto is by prying him out of Vlade Divac' cold dead fingers, but this hopefully explains my position on the pick.  I'd give it up for Blake Griffin, another name getting batted around, too.


bob


.

Hi,
I agree about "go for Cousins now" line.
No to Love. I don't think that Celtics have anyone else besides JC who Cavs would want and trading JC for Love would cripple the team and push it several years back.
There's, also, the 4th path. Do nothing trade wise, wait for whatever draft brings us and play in summer '16 free agent pool

AK

Is it at all possible that this board could reach a consensous on what the Celtics need to become a great team?

Golden State is the clear traget.  Their TEAM shoots ,426% from behind the arc.  The Celtics still basically suck from behind the arc as compared to The Target at .334%

The focus must be on adding better 3 point shooters.  Any player mentioned as a possible traget must either be a reliable three point shooter that can also defend his position or he must be a rim protector that will improve our interior defense.

If  we are not able to find those players through trade then we need to simply wait for the draft because there are a number of really good shooters coming out.  

dboss

dboss wrote:Is it at all possible that this board could reach a consensous on what the Celtics need to become a great team?

Golden State is the clear traget.  Their TEAM shoots ,426% from behind the arc.  The Celtics still basically suck from behind the arc as compared to The Target at .334%

The focus must be on adding better 3 point shooters.  Any player mentioned as a possible traget must either be a reliable three point shooter that can also defend his position or he must be a rim protector that will improve our interior defense.

If  we are not able to find those players through trade then we need to simply wait for the draft because there are a number of really good shooters coming out.  

dboss

agree wholeheartedly, we have just enough rim protection and rebounding with Amir and Sully, I would love to get a Festus Ezeli type to go at the really big line ups and that can be done by grabbing an AJ Hammonds type in the late first or second round....agree with dboss we need more shooters, if they are athletic and can run and defend, even better. Two players I would never trade are AB and Smart, both can cover either guard position and in this age you need defensive stoppers on the perimeter, more important to an elite defense to cover and stop the perimeter than having that oldschool intimadator at the rim. I am finally ACCEPTING that.

dboss wrote:Is it at all possible that this board could reach a consensous on what the Celtics need to become a great team?

Golden State is the clear traget.  Their TEAM shoots ,426% from behind the arc.  The Celtics still basically suck from behind the arc as compared to The Target at .334%

The focus must be on adding better 3 point shooters.  Any player mentioned as a possible traget must either be a reliable three point shooter that can also defend his position or he must be a rim protector that will improve our interior defense.

If  we are not able to find those players through trade then we need to simply wait for the draft because there are a number of really good shooters coming out.  

dboss

dboss,

I agree.  The game is moving to the perimeter.  We need shooters, damn good ones and not just one or two.  We are 7th in 3pt fgas/game but 25th in 3pt fg%.  NOT good.  Not everybody has to be a 3pt shooter, Bogut and Ezeli on GSW don't take them, but you have to have a lot of other players who do.  I don't care that Amir can't shoot 3s, he takes so few.  Turner, obviously, should not be taking 3s.  Sullinger, at 26.8%, should not be taking 3s.  Smart, at 23.8% should not be taking 3s.  There are parts of Sully's game I love, he appeals to some deep primal urge I have to pound the crap out of opponents, but if we do get a legit center then he has to either move out to the perimeter as a PF, where he sucks, or he has to turn into Tristan Thompson, who sucked as a starter but has been great off the bench as a rebounding fool, or the center has to be a Channing Frye "stretch 5" type of player that will spread the floor for Sully underneath.

GSW has two players that can score 30+ points in a game.  We have one, IT, and he's a high volume low efficiency scorer.  When your offensive explosiveness all hangs upon one player you have problems or are rebuilding or, like in our case, both.

I was out to dinner the other night and met a fellow Celtic fan.  He said we aren't going to win a championship until IT is the 4th best player on the team.  That might be a bit harsh but it does highlight our talent gap.  We are executing beautifully with what Brad has to work with.

It'd be nice to have a stork.  It'd be nice to have someone as the final line of defense on the baseline, inside the dotted line, but spreading the floor creates opportunities.

I still have hopes that RJ Hunter can be one of those players.  His shooting has, quite frankly, sucked this year but he's a rook and his head is probably exploding from all that he has to assimilate.  Rozier and Mickey play the role of penetrating drive-and-disher (right now we only have IT and Turner for that and, to a lesser degree, Kelly) and stork.  If Mickey was a few inches taller I think I'd be in love.

Players like Jordan and Howard are the last of a dying breed, the big centers who can only play in the paint.  


bob



.

bob and I have the same psychiatrist.....

They need perimeter shooters who are also perimeter defenders. The Warriors are first in three-point shooting (42.6%), but they are also first in opponent three-point shooting (31.1%). That's a remarkable combination.

Outside wrote:They need perimeter shooters who are also perimeter defenders. The Warriors are first in three-point shooting (42.6%), but they are also first in opponent three-point shooting (31.1%). That's a remarkable combination.

And how much that defensive % is because teams are behind and shooting a larger number of treys in an attempt to catch up? No way of knowing but perhaps a small factor.

beat

beat wrote:

Outside wrote:They need perimeter shooters who are also perimeter defenders. The Warriors are first in three-point shooting (42.6%), but they are also first in opponent three-point shooting (31.1%). That's a remarkable combination.

And how much that defensive % is because teams are behind  and shooting a larger number of treys in an attempt to catch up? No way of knowing but perhaps a small factor.

beat

they are solid defensively all over, Bogut and Ezeli can protect the rim, Igoudala, Barnes and Green are very good wing and midrange defenders. Everybody talks about their offense, you get in a 3 point war with them, with long rebounds plays right into their attacking pace system.

beat wrote:And how much that defensive % is because teams are behind and shooting a larger number of treys in an attempt to catch up? No way of knowing but perhaps a small factor.

Perhaps a factor, but I don't think a very significant one. The main thing is that they have a group of players -- Barnes, Green, Thompson, Iguodala, Livingston, Barbosa, Rush -- who have long arms and are interchangeable on defense, so they can switch everything on the perimeter. Even Curry works well with that group.

That ability to switch means they don't have to fight through screens, show hard and fall back, or any of that stuff. They just switch, which allows them to defend the three-point shooters much more effectively and while expending less energy. It is a carefully constructed roster that is highly versatile at both ends of the court, but especially defensively.