Warriors becoming human

by **steve3344** Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:30 am

Shocking GS home loss to Timberwolves tonight.

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/wolves-push-warriors--pursuit-of-73-to-the-brink-with-comeback-win-060842474.html

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/minnesota-timberwolves-golden-state-warriors-2016040509/

"Minnesota came back from as many as 18 down to control crunch time, breaking a streak of 114 wins for the Warriors in games where they'd led by at least 15 points at any point."

Now GS can't even match the Celtics all-time best NBA home record of 40-1 during the '85-'86 season. San Antonio can still break it and go 41-0 unless they decide to rest their players.

by **gyso** Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:19 am

Wolves push Warriors' pursuit of 73 to the brink with comeback win

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/wolves-push-warriors--pursuit-of-73-to-the-brink-with-comeback-win-060842474.html

(same link as Steve's above with the following text)

The Golden State Warriors have cruised through the bulk of this regular season, logging highlight-filled blowouts and breaking NBA records as a matter of course. Suddenly, with just over a week left to play before the playoffs, they look tired, prone to mistakes, and vulnerable on their home floor.

Their latest loss has also pushed their pursuit of a single-season record 73 wins to the brink. Coming four days after Friday's 109-106 loss to the Boston Celtics, Tuesday's 124-117 overtime loss to the lottery-bound Minnesota Timberwolves drops the Warriors to 69-9, forcing them to win all four of their remaining games if they hope to beat the 1995-96 Chicago Bulls' mark of 72 wins. Minnesota came back from as many as 18 down to control crunch time, breaking a streak of 114 wins for the Warriors in games where they'd led by at least 15 points at any point. After winning 54 straight at Oracle Arena, the Warriors have now dropped two of three at home.

While the two recent home losses represent something new for Golden State, their problems vs. Minnesota were in line with recent trends. The Warriors committed 24 turnovers (albeit with 35 assists) to give the Wolves regular transition opportunities on their way to 51.2 percent shooting on the night (including 8-of-17 from deep). The Wolves also attacked the basket for 36 free throws, 28 more than the Warriors. It's tempting to blame the officials for that disparity, but this was a reasonably well officiated game. The Warriors just stayed on the perimeter.

That's usually a sound strategy for a team with so many potent outside shooters, but the elite touch was not there for Stephen Curry and Klay Thompson, who combined to shoot 8-of-25 from deep. It was an especially rough shooting night for Curry, who went 4-of-14 on threes and did not make a field goal in the first half. He still finished with a solid 21 points and 15 assists, but he did not make the game-changing impact that could earn him a unanimous MVP award this spring. Golden State managed to shoot 50 percent from the field, but the offense was nowhere near its peak efficiency.

By contrast, the Wolves found optimal matchups and exploited them. Shabazz Muhammad was particularly impressive, scoring a career-high 35 points on 9-of-12 FG and 15-of-17 FT. Those numbers should give some idea of how he attacked the basket at every opportunity and forced Warriors defenders into sending him to the line.

(use link for video)

Andrew Wiggins was similarly efficient, scoring 32 on 11-of-19 FG and 8-of-9 FT. The Warriors saw Andre Iguodala return from an ankle injury that kept him out for 13 games, but he is clearly still working his way to full health and could only help the wing defense so much.

(use link for video)

Overtime brought new problems when Draymond Green fouled out with 2:33 remaining, robbing the Warriors of their only decent plan for defending Karl-Anthony Towns. The presumptive Rookie of the Year showed why he's considered a superstar-in-waiting, taking bigger players off the dribble and drawing contact from smaller defenders in the paint. More than anything, though, the Wolves seemed to have more energy and beat the Warriors to the spot throughout the fourth quarter and extra period.

Despite these problems, the loss was an understandable one for the Warriors. For one thing, the Wolves have looked much better than a 25-win team in recent weeks and have drawn more than a few comparisons to the 2008-09 Oklahoma City Thunder, a loaded young team that broke into the playoffs the following season. Minnesota likely saw this contest as an opportunity to get the best win of their season, whereas Golden State considered it a manageable matchup before another big game against the San Antonio Spurs on Thursday. Chicago suffered similar issues in April 1996, when they dropped two of their final four home games by a combined two points.

Unfortunately for the Warriors, making so many mistakes has put them in a tough spot to break the Bulls' record. The No. 1 seed is still a very likely finish — they need any combination of two wins and Spurs losses, with a chance to get both on Thursday — but this does not currently look like a team that can beat the 65-win Spurs and a desperate Grizzlies group twice each.

No one could fault the Warriors for going all out to reach the record, but it's now easy to see why Steve Kerr said they're not pushing for 73 wins at the expense of their other goals. The pursuit has clearly worn on them. Another loss would end their chance at history, but it could also come as something of a relief.

by **bobheckler** Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:09 am

Might be the best thing for them. Get the monkey off their back.

bob

.

by **cowens/oldschool** Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:15 am

Hey bob a team with a young dinosaur won, that team has pieces that are too young to KNOW how to win , they are just winning a raw talent, once they learn a system that gives them a winning identity we could see the rebirth of BIG MAN/WING oldschool hoops.

by **beat** Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:53 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:Hey bob a team with a young dinosaur won, that team has pieces that are too young to KNOW how to win , they are just winning a raw talent, once they learn a system that gives them a winning identity we could see the rebirth of BIG MAN/WING oldschool hoops.

I believe they have 52 losses with this "young" dinosaur too. It's only one game out of 82 which happens to be all that minny will be playing this year. That said I do like the kid. Told Marcus this the other day if I were starting a team and had to pick any player in the league he would be it. KG working with him sure has helped too.

beat

by **bobheckler** Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:07 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:Hey bob a team with a young dinosaur won, that team has pieces that are too young to KNOW how to win , they are just winning a raw talent, once they learn a system that gives them a winning identity we could see the rebirth of BIG MAN/WING oldschool hoops.

Cow,

Yeah, they won. So did we. Think either one of us could win 4-out-of-7 against them? Isn't that what it's all about? Isn't that how you know which is better, who can win when there are repeated opportunities by both teams to adjust to the other and not because one team was looking past the other at a record or at a tougher next opponent? The Warrior's next game is vs San Antonio. That's a likely WC Finals series. The Minnesota Timberpups are, to put it nicely, not.

Anybody can win on any given night. GSW's mental state is weak right now. They are fatigued, they haven't playing with the same intensity for weeks, especially on the defensive end. And yet, they are still in the running for the best record in the history of the NBA. They have to win the rest of their games, which will be very tough, but they can do it. How much more of a "proof of concept" do you need than being on the verge of making history the year after winning the Championship? Do you really want to look at a single game result and extrapolate from there? Do you really want to look at a team that has just won one more game than we did 3 years ago, when we only won 25? Minny now, with this massive upset, has 26 wins and 52 losses. How is losing 52 games in a single season proof of anything positive? Well, I suppose you could say 26 wins is better than the 16 games they won last year, but we went from 25 wins to 40 in a year. Will Minny, with that "young dinosaur" that you're mooning over, win 15 more games than the previous year like we did? They only have 4 games left, so the answer to that is "no". Maybe adding a monster big isn't the big deal (no pun intended) that you think it is because we saw a bigger improvement year-over-year than them and we didn't, and still don't, have that big. What took us from 25 all the way to 40? You've said it yourself, it was the addition of mighty midget Isaiah Thomas (an addition you wish Danny didn't make so we could suck worse and have a long shot at the dinosaur).

When we see an old school style team win the championship again then, maybe you have something. Then again, maybe that is just a 1-year fluke. Trying to inflate a single, regular season win into a trend is silly.

Philly beat NOP last night, without Okafur and with Noel coming off the bench for only 18 minutes. NOP started 7'2" Ajinca. Philly's biggest starter was 6'9" octogenarian Elton Brand, the rest were 2 SFs and 2 PGs. A small ball win by a team that has won only 10 games all season. You said that Minny hasn't learned how to win yet, Philly doesn't know how to even spell 'win'. Would you care to project that Philly win forward into some kind of a trend like you're trying to do with the Minny win?

Grasping at straws, Cow, grasping at straws.

bob

.

by **worcester** Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:47 pm

Obviously Elton Brand was the key to Philly's win, offsetting the "ers" small ball contingent handicap. In fact the only reason Philly hasn't surged to the Finals this year is they don't have enough 7 footers on board. Were Greg Oden healthy and playing alongside Okafor and Noel, well then you'd have something. The Philly Forest of tall trees. They'd be playing one big game of keepaway all night long.

by **swish** Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:58 pm

Cow

Representing Towns as an old school hoops player is miles from being accurate. As a center he's playing NEW SCHOOL BALL. Below link list the centers 6'10" or taller that have played at least 1700 minutes this year.

http://bkref.com/tiny/x2xMI

The percentage figures that are listed below for 2015-16, are for the percentage of the total shots taken, by the player at 16'-<3p range. Certainly not low post shots.

Player #1-.244 2-.263 3-.017 4-.191 5-.003 6-.152 7-.048 8-.283 9-.301 10-.073 11-.164 12-.229 13-.004 14-.041 15-.004 16-.000 17-.091 18-.067 19-.128. The fact is that Townes ( #8 ) has the 2nd ranked percentage of shots taken from the 16'<3p range. A 7'0" outside shooting center that shot .502 at that distance. Wow

swish

by **worcester** Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:19 pm

I don't know. DeMarcus Cousins looks pretty dang good to me from that group.
Totals Per 36 Minutes

G GS MP FG FGA 2P 2PA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 2P% 3P% eFG% FT% TS% MP PTS

Karl-Anthony Towns 7-0 78 78 2501 8.5 15.6 8.1 14.5 0.4 1.1 3.1 3.8 3.1 8.6 11.8 2.2 0.8 1.9 2.5 3.4 20.4 .542 .558 .342 .555 .815 .591 32.1 18.2

DeMarcus Cousins 6-11 64 64 2214 9.7 21.3 8.5 17.9 1.1 3.4 7.7 10.7 2.5 9.5 12.0 3.4 1.6 1.5 4.0 3.7 28.2 .454 .476 .338 .481 .721 .542 34.6 27.1

by **swish** Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:36 pm

worcester

Perhaps you missed the point that I was only comparing the percentage of shots taken from the 16'-3p range.

swish

by **swish** Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:58 pm

Wow to Town's .502 shooting % at the 16' - 3p range. The league average is .399 %.

swish

by **worcester** Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:34 pm

Yes Wow to Town!

by **k_j_88** Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:56 pm

Warriors *more* human?

I'd prefer not to make any assumptions about any decrease in their strength as a team. Let's consider these factors:

1. They are the reigning champions. Night in, night out, you're getting everyone's best shot.

2. People take winning for granted. What the Warriors are doing is so impressive that it hasn't been done in 2 decades. It's hard to win, but because they regularly make it look easy, so people take it for granted.

Gotta beat them in a 7-game series first. Until that happens, I'll withhold any judgment about this matter.

KJ

by **cowens/oldschool** Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:50 am

bobheckler wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:Hey bob a team with a young dinosaur won, that team has pieces that are too young to KNOW how to win , they are just winning a raw talent, once they learn a system that gives them a winning identity we could see the rebirth of BIG MAN/WING oldschool hoops.

Cow,

Yeah, they won. So did we. Think either one of us could win 4-out-of-7 against them? Isn't that what it's all about? Isn't that how you know which is better, who can win when there are repeated opportunities by both teams to adjust to the other and not because one team was looking past the other at a record or at a tougher next opponent? The Warrior's next game is vs San Antonio. That's a likely WC Finals series. The Minnesota Timberpups are, to put it nicely, not.

Anybody can win on any given night. GSW's mental state is weak right now. They are fatigued, they haven't playing with the same intensity for weeks, especially on the defensive end. And yet, they are still in the running for the best record in the history of the NBA. They have to win the rest of their games, which will be very tough, but they can do it. How much more of a "proof of concept" do you need than being on the verge of making history the year after winning the Championship? Do you really want to look at a single game result and extrapolate from there? Do you really want to look at a team that has just won one more game than we did 3 years ago, when we only won 25? Minny now, with this massive upset, has 26 wins and 52 losses. How is losing 52 games in a single season proof of anything positive? Well, I suppose you could say 26 wins is better than the 16 games they won last year, but we went from 25 wins to 40 in a year. Will Minny, with that "young dinosaur" that you're mooning over, win 15 more games than the previous year like we did? They only have 4 games left, so the answer to that is "no". Maybe adding a monster big isn't the big deal (no pun intended) that you think it is because we saw a bigger improvement year-over-year than them and we didn't, and still don't, have that big. What took us from 25 all the way to 40? You've said it yourself, it was the addition of mighty midget Isaiah Thomas (an addition you wish Danny didn't make so we could suck worse and have a long shot at the dinosaur).

When we see an old school style team win the championship again then, maybe you have something. Then again, maybe that is just a 1-year fluke. Trying to inflate a single, regular season win into a trend is silly.

Philly beat NOP last night, without Okafur and with Noel coming off the bench for only 18 minutes. NOP started 7'2" Ajinca. Philly's biggest starter was 6'9" octogenarian Elton Brand, the rest were 2 SFs and 2 PGs. A small ball win by a team that has won only 10 games all season. You said that Minny hasn't learned how to win yet, Philly doesn't know how to even spell 'win'. Would you care to project that Philly win forward into some kind of a trend like you're trying to do with the Minny win?

Grasping at straws, Cow, grasping at straws.

bob

.

grasping, what the fock am I grasping about bob? I am in agreement there is a new style of play going on, how many more times do you want me to say/type it? All I'm pointing out is the Wolves have some young good possibly great pieces to build on and that they are obviously not ready yet, Towns is what 20? Wiggins 21 or so and I like Levine too he's also got to be 20. They are babies learning the game, but if they can mature at the level they are talented, they could easily be very competitive in a few years because Wiggins may be the best 21 year old wing in the game and Towns may be the best center in this years draft and if he grows into full fledged franchise caliber big and is the next Shaq/Hakeem then they will win with a different style than say GS. Not every team that wins from now on has to have EXACT pieces like GS, there are different styles that have won recently, and that will continue, Cavs won with superstars at 3 and 2 carrying them, Spurs won as total team, sharing the ball a la Pop, GS has the Splash brothers. I understand they play at a fast pace and take and make a record amount of 3's.....not EVERY team is gonna win that way.

by **bobheckler** Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:58 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:
bobheckler wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:Hey bob a team with a young dinosaur won, that team has pieces that are too young to KNOW how to win , they are just winning a raw talent, once they learn a system that gives them a winning identity we could see the rebirth of BIG MAN/WING oldschool hoops.

Cow,

Yeah, they won. So did we. Think either one of us could win 4-out-of-7 against them? Isn't that what it's all about? Isn't that how you know which is better, who can win when there are repeated opportunities by both teams to adjust to the other and not because one team was looking past the other at a record or at a tougher next opponent? The Warrior's next game is vs San Antonio. That's a likely WC Finals series. The Minnesota Timberpups are, to put it nicely, not.

Anybody can win on any given night. GSW's mental state is weak right now. They are fatigued, they haven't playing with the same intensity for weeks, especially on the defensive end. And yet, they are still in the running for the best record in the history of the NBA. They have to win the rest of their games, which will be very tough, but they can do it. How much more of a "proof of concept" do you need than being on the verge of making history the year after winning the Championship? Do you really want to look at a single game result and extrapolate from there? Do you really want to look at a team that has just won one more game than we did 3 years ago, when we only won 25? Minny now, with this massive upset, has 26 wins and 52 losses. How is losing 52 games in a single season proof of anything positive? Well, I suppose you could say 26 wins is better than the 16 games they won last year, but we went from 25 wins to 40 in a year. Will Minny, with that "young dinosaur" that you're mooning over, win 15 more games than the previous year like we did? They only have 4 games left, so the answer to that is "no". Maybe adding a monster big isn't the big deal (no pun intended) that you think it is because we saw a bigger improvement year-over-year than them and we didn't, and still don't, have that big. What took us from 25 all the way to 40? You've said it yourself, it was the addition of mighty midget Isaiah Thomas (an addition you wish Danny didn't make so we could suck worse and have a long shot at the dinosaur).

When we see an old school style team win the championship again then, maybe you have something. Then again, maybe that is just a 1-year fluke. Trying to inflate a single, regular season win into a trend is silly.

Philly beat NOP last night, without Okafur and with Noel coming off the bench for only 18 minutes. NOP started 7'2" Ajinca. Philly's biggest starter was 6'9" octogenarian Elton Brand, the rest were 2 SFs and 2 PGs. A small ball win by a team that has won only 10 games all season. You said that Minny hasn't learned how to win yet, Philly doesn't know how to even spell 'win'. Would you care to project that Philly win forward into some kind of a trend like you're trying to do with the Minny win?

Grasping at straws, Cow, grasping at straws.

bob

.

grasping, what the fock am I grasping about bob? I am in agreement there is a new style of play going on, how many more times do you want me to say/type it? All I'm pointing out is the Wolves have some young good possibly great pieces to build on and that they are obviously not ready yet, Towns is what 20? Wiggins 21 or so and I like Levine too he's also got to be 20. They are babies learning the game, but if they can mature at the level they are talented, they could easily be very competitive in a few years because Wiggins may be the best 21 year old wing in the game and Towns may be the best center in this years draft and if he grows into full fledged franchise caliber big and is the next Shaq/Hakeem then they will win with a different style than say GS. Not every team that wins from now on has to have EXACT pieces like GS, there are different styles that have won recently, and that will continue, Cavs won with superstars at 3 and 2 carrying them, Spurs won as total team, sharing the ball a la Pop, GS has the Splash brothers. I understand they play at a fast pace and take and make a record amount of 3's.....not EVERY team is gonna win that way.

cow,

You keep saying that you realize there is a new style of play and yet you keep pointing out where your old school style is necessary, can and, in examples where the generally terrible Minnesota Timberwolves beat the new style, is evidence that old school ball is making a comeback.

ISN'T THIS WHAT STARTED THIS? "Hey bob a team with a young dinosaur won, that team has pieces that are too young to KNOW how to win , they are just winning a raw talent, once they learn a system that gives them a winning identity we could see the rebirth of BIG MAN/WING oldschool hoops." (BOLDS MINE).

Not EVERY team is gonna win the GSW way, true, but that's where the smart money is going and looking to trade new style players to bring in old style players, like you always propose, is what makes me keep coming back to this.

bob

.

by **rickdavisakaspike** Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:20 pm

What's happening in the NBA now is comparable to what happened in the late Fifties when Bill Russell entered the league. George Mikan was the prototypical dinosaur back then. None of the experts thought Russ would last one season because he couldn't do the dinosaur thing: lumber down the floor, set up in the post and take the shot, then lumber back on defense.

Russ changed the game to one that emphasized speed and quickness to go with team play and defense. Fast, athletic centers followed in his wake: Wilt, Unseld, Willis Reed, and more. Then, in the Eighties and Nineties, slow, lumbering centers, dinosaurs like Kareem, Moses and Shaq, made a comeback, while strategies changed to emphasize brilliant individual players.

Now that the game is changing back towards speed and quickness, teamwork and defense, the dinosaurs have become fairly useless. Nevertheless, fast, athletic centers such as Russ and Wilt will always dominate, no matter what the era. There just aren't any around these days. Perhaps Town will provide the exception that proves the rule.

by **swish** Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:51 pm

rickdavisakaspike wrote:
What's happening in the NBA now is comparable to what happened in the late Fifties when Bill Russell entered the league. George Mikan was the prototypical dinosaur back then. None of the experts thought Russ would last one season because he couldn't do the dinosaur thing: lumber down the floor, set up in the post and take the shot, then lumber back on defense.

Russ changed the game to one that emphasized speed and quickness to go with team play and defense. Fast, athletic centers followed in his wake: Wilt, Unseld, Willis Reed, and more. Then, in the Eighties and Nineties, slow, lumbering centers, dinosaurs like Kareem, Moses and Shaq, made a comeback, while strategies changed to emphasize brilliant individual players.

Now that the game is changing back towards speed and quickness, teamwork and defense, the dinosaurs have become fairly useless. Nevertheless, fast, athletic centers such as Russ and Wilt will always dominate, no matter what the era. There just aren't any around these days. Perhaps Town will provide the exception that proves the rule.

Rick
Here's the center competition Wilt faced during his rookie year in 1959-60. Height of 6'10" or taller that played at least 1700 minutes. Dukes, Jordan, and Russell averaged 213 lbs. See below link

http://bkref.com/tiny/gxopK

And here's the Centers he would be facing this year. This group averages 259 lbs. See below link

http://bkref.com/tiny/3EeDx

No feather weights in the class of 2015-16. The Dinosaurs really do exit.

swish

by **cowens/oldschool** Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:13 pm

bobheckler wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:
bobheckler wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:Hey bob a team with a young dinosaur won, that team has pieces that are too young to KNOW how to win , they are just winning a raw talent, once they learn a system that gives them a winning identity we could see the rebirth of BIG MAN/WING oldschool hoops.

Cow,

Yeah, they won. So did we. Think either one of us could win 4-out-of-7 against them? Isn't that what it's all about? Isn't that how you know which is better, who can win when there are repeated opportunities by both teams to adjust to the other and not because one team was looking past the other at a record or at a tougher next opponent? The Warrior's next game is vs San Antonio. That's a likely WC Finals series. The Minnesota Timberpups are, to put it nicely, not.

Anybody can win on any given night. GSW's mental state is weak right now. They are fatigued, they haven't playing with the same intensity for weeks, especially on the defensive end. And yet, they are still in the running for the best record in the history of the NBA. They have to win the rest of their games, which will be very tough, but they can do it. How much more of a "proof of concept" do you need than being on the verge of making history the year after winning the Championship? Do you really want to look at a single game result and extrapolate from there? Do you really want to look at a team that has just won one more game than we did 3 years ago, when we only won 25? Minny now, with this massive upset, has 26 wins and 52 losses. How is losing 52 games in a single season proof of anything positive? Well, I suppose you could say 26 wins is better than the 16 games they won last year, but we went from 25 wins to 40 in a year. Will Minny, with that "young dinosaur" that you're mooning over, win 15 more games than the previous year like we did? They only have 4 games left, so the answer to that is "no". Maybe adding a monster big isn't the big deal (no pun intended) that you think it is because we saw a bigger improvement year-over-year than them and we didn't, and still don't, have that big. What took us from 25 all the way to 40? You've said it yourself, it was the addition of mighty midget Isaiah Thomas (an addition you wish Danny didn't make so we could suck worse and have a long shot at the dinosaur).

When we see an old school style team win the championship again then, maybe you have something. Then again, maybe that is just a 1-year fluke. Trying to inflate a single, regular season win into a trend is silly.

Philly beat NOP last night, without Okafur and with Noel coming off the bench for only 18 minutes. NOP started 7'2" Ajinca. Philly's biggest starter was 6'9" octogenarian Elton Brand, the rest were 2 SFs and 2 PGs. A small ball win by a team that has won only 10 games all season. You said that Minny hasn't learned how to win yet, Philly doesn't know how to even spell 'win'. Would you care to project that Philly win forward into some kind of a trend like you're trying to do with the Minny win?

Grasping at straws, Cow, grasping at straws.

bob

.

grasping, what the fock am I grasping about bob? I am in agreement there is a new style of play going on, how many more times do you want me to say/type it? All I'm pointing out is the Wolves have some young good possibly great pieces to build on and that they are obviously not ready yet, Towns is what 20? Wiggins 21 or so and I like Levine too he's also got to be 20. They are babies learning the game, but if they can mature at the level they are talented, they could easily be very competitive in a few years because Wiggins may be the best 21 year old wing in the game and Towns may be the best center in this years draft and if he grows into full fledged franchise caliber big and is the next Shaq/Hakeem then they will win with a different style than say GS. Not every team that wins from now on has to have EXACT pieces like GS, there are different styles that have won recently, and that will continue, Cavs won with superstars at 3 and 2 carrying them, Spurs won as total team, sharing the ball a la Pop, GS has the Splash brothers. I understand they play at a fast pace and take and make a record amount of 3's.....not EVERY team is gonna win that way.

cow,

You keep saying that you realize there is a new style of play and yet you keep pointing out where your old school style is necessary, can and, in examples where the generally terrible Minnesota Timberwolves beat the new style, is evidence that old school ball is making a comeback.

ISN'T THIS WHAT STARTED THIS? "Hey bob a team with a young dinosaur won, that team has pieces that are too young to KNOW how to win , they are just winning a raw talent, once they learn a system that gives them a winning identity we could see the rebirth of BIG MAN/WING oldschool hoops." (BOLDS MINE).

Not EVERY team is gonna win the GSW way, true, but that's where the smart money is going and looking to trade new style players to bring in old style players, like you always propose, is what makes me keep coming back to this.

bob

.

elements of the oldschool STILL are necessary otherwise why are Bogut and Ezeli on the GS roster?......and I don't want to hear a bunch of crap and stats that they don't play.....if they didn't play and do the big man dirty work when match ups dictate they need it, they would be like Nash's Suns 10 years ago who could play well, but not win the ultimate prize.

by **cowens/oldschool** Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:21 pm

.....and the Timberwolves ARE not terrible because they are too old style, they are terrible because they are young, that team could improve dramatically as they grow and learn how to play and win. A few more good pieces and a coach like Stevens and that is suddenly a vert talented scary team in a few seasons.

by **dboss** Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:25 pm

I believe in the oldschool/new school

The perfect team will have the ability to create pace and also have shooters to spread the floor.

There is still a premium on having a dynamic low post presence particularly if he demands some double teaming. If the center can at the very least step out and make those elbow jumper that team would be very difficult to defend.

Everyone on this board agrees that we need a better center but that is primarily on the defensive side of the ball to provide rim protection and rebounding. I think that most every team in the NBA would have drafted Towns if they were able to. If GS had the # 1 pick this past year I would bet that they would have drafted Towns.

The center position has evolved but all good centers can play in the post. It is still all about fundamentals. Could a guy like Bill Walton play and be effective in todays pace and space game? You betcha.

The other things that has perhaps reduced the impact of the traditional low post center is the fact that guards even the PG are now the focal point of the offence. If you look at the top 20 scorers in the NBA there are only 2 centers and one PF among them.

I think the future great center will play inside out.

dboss

by **beat** Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:52 pm

Dboss just a though the shear size of SG's and SF's even some PG's somewhat negates the need for a "big" big at the 5

beat

by **swish** Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:36 pm

The "bigs" are bigger than ever but because of the 3 point shot a lot of the scoring focus has gone away from the center position, onto those players that excel at 3 point shooting. Much is made of the "Dinosaur" centers of the 50's-60's and the 80's but they pale in size compared to the "Dinosaur centers" of 2015-16. They still roam the low post.

swish

by **cowens/oldschool** Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:12 pm

dboss wrote:I believe in the oldschool/new school

The perfect team will have the ability to create pace and also have shooters to spread the floor.

There is still a premium on having a dynamic low post presence particularly if he demands some double teaming. If the center can at the very least step out and make those elbow jumper that team would be very difficult to defend.

Everyone on this board agrees that we need a better center but that is primarily on the defensive side of the ball to provide rim protection and rebounding. I think that most every team in the NBA would have drafted Towns if they were able to. If GS had the # 1 pick this past year I would bet that they would have drafted Towns.

The center position has evolved but all good centers can play in the post. It is still all about fundamentals. Could a guy like Bill Walton play and be effective in todays pace and space game? You betcha.

The other things that has perhaps reduced the impact of the traditional low post center is the fact that guards even the PG are now the focal point of the offence. If you look at the top 20 scorers in the NBA there are only 2 centers and one PF among them.

I think the future great center will play inside out.

dboss

agree with everything you said dboss, the top teams still have dinosaurs or the necessary dinosaurs to neutralize other dinosaurs. KO and Zeller have some offensive skills that should translate well in todays offensive game, but seeing how lacking they are on defense and rebounding, toughness, you can't win with a bunch of pussies jacking up 3's either.

Actually there are 2 teams that played fast in their era that were doing similar things and could have been considered the GS of their era and these teams might have been better because they had HoF center play. One was the 73-76 Celtics that were playing small ball and were the best uptempo team of their time before there was a 3 point line/shot, Draymond Green plays a little like Cowens and Silas, but wasn't anywhere near as good as Cowens. Cowens outran other 5's, was often the trailer open for 18-20 ft jumpers on the break, could post up and had enough ball handling and passing skills to run a high post offense and was a tenacious defender and rebounder. Curry, Thompson and Igoudala combined will not have as many all NBA berths or championship rings as the immortal John Havlicek.

Another team that spread the floor and had the best 3 point shooting of their time was the Hakeem/Clyde the Glide Rockets. They had possibly the greatest modern center ever in Olajuwon, who could do it all and was unstoppable in the post, is still the all time leader in blocked shots. They ran a great break, in the halfcourt played inside first, but spread you out and their 3 point shooting was contagious with too many shooters to spread the floor in Kenny the Jet, Cassel, Ellie, Horry> big shot Bob and Clyde Drexler, who was also a do it all wing that could play in any era both ends.

by **swish** Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:30 pm

cow

They might have been the cats meow of the 70's but I would doubt very much that they could compete with the present day Warriors. Huge difference in size (height and weight), shooting and ball handing skills. The size and skill level of the good old days is a far cry from the caliber of play that we have the good fortune to watch right now.

swish

by **cowens/oldschool** Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:39 pm

swish that might be true, but is it fair to compare them vs their own era and how good/dominant they were in that era or compare them match up to match up, regardless of era? Sam and I used to debate this....I still say best era in players and teams was 80's. My point in bringing up these teams was more to show there were teams that already played and won with smallball and 3 ball and both teams were fast and played uptempo too.

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