Report: Trade talks between Celtics, Sixers heating up

WEEI

Gary Tanguay

Video > http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/Tim-Welsh-Nerlens-Noel-Jahlil-Okafor-in-play-in-possible-Boston-Celtics-Philadelphia-76ers-deal-for-No-3-pick

Of all the trade rumors involving the Celtics’ first-round pick — No. 3 overall — the idea of a deal with the Sixers has always seemed the most plausible.

The Celtics reportedly had strong interest in Jahlil Okafor earlier this year, and he remains a logical fit for what Danny Ainge might need.

Monday night, the scenario seemed to gain some momentum thanks to a report on CSNNE by NBA analyst Tim Welsh.

While Okafor would appear to be the logical target for the Celtics, center Nerlens Noel might also be in the mix if any deal was completed.

The Sixers have the No. 1 overall pick and are expected to pick LSU forward Ben Simmons, potentially leaving them with more of a need for a guard. That’s where their desire to secure Dunn would come in.
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CSN Philly

Former Providence head coach Tim Welsh reported on CSN’s Sports Tonight that the Philadelphia Sixers are pushing to complete a trade for Boston’s third pick before Thursday’s NBA Draft.

“Philly has told Kris Dunn’s camp and his agent they are trying to push the buttons to have this happen before the draft,” Welsh said. “They’ve been in Providence locked in to the city talking to everyone that’s ever encountered Kris Dunn. They are putting the full court press on the Celtics to acquire the third pick. It could go down in the next two days, so we’ll see. Boston has the upper hand in knowing what Philly wants.”

Welsh said the Celtics prefer Nerlens Noel to Jahlil Okafor in a trade package, which shouldn’t come as a surprise. Noel is simply a better player in the positionless NBA.

Noel has tremendous potential on defense as a rangy shot blocker and he’s an explosive leaper who would give the Celtics a serious lob threat.

Celtics Blog via CSNNE

I don’t think anyone is overly excited with the idea of giving up the 3rd pick for Nerlens Noel or Jahlil Okafor. Sure, both guys would improve the team in different areas but can’t we do better?

Kevin O’Connor floats a third team into the mix – the Chicago Bulls – with Boston’s target being Jimmy Butler. Maybe some combination of Noel/Okafor, Avery Bradley and additional 1st rounders moves the needle for Chicago. It certainly moves the needle for me.

112288

This is chess at the highest level in the NBA.  I do think the Celtics are in senior position move on this.  Philly is stuck in a poor position.  They need a point guard really bad, so if they draft Dunn who by all indication will be an All Star player, they are not drafting
Simmons or Ingram.  So that means one of these 2 players drops to the Celtics at #3.

ONLY TRADE FOR NERLENS NOEL ONLY, HE IS THE BEST ALL ROUND CENTER ESPECIALLY SHOT BLOCKING AND LOB PASSES TO DUNK. I WOULD SQUEEZE PHILLY'S BASKET BALLS!

If they draft one of those 2 and not Dunn,  or if Philly balks at a trade with the Celtics, the Celtics should draft Dunn at #3.

We then have a top top point guard that any other team would envy and we can package either Dunn or one of our other guards plus other talent  for another top position player like Butler and keep Dunn.

I only believe we should swap with Philly and maybe throw in a second rounder or late first rounder, nothing else.  This trade makes a whole lot of sense for both teams to do and costs us nothing.  We need a center, they need a guard and for both teams their desires did not match the years the position talent were available for each team in respective drafts.



112288

112288 wrote:This is chess at the highest level in the NBA.  I do think the Celtics are in senior position move on this.  Philly is stuck in a poor position.  They need a point guard really bad, so if they draft Dunn who by all indication will be an All Star player, they are not drafting
Simmons or Ingram.  So that means one of these 2 players drops to the Celtics at #3.

ONLY TRADE FOR NERLENS NOEL ONLY, HE IS THE BEST ALL ROUND CENTER ESPECIALLY SHOT BLOCKING AND LOB PASSES TO DUNK. I WOULD SQUEEZE PHILLY'S BASKET BALLS!

If they draft one of those 2 and not Dunn,  or if Philly balks at a trade with the Celtics, the Celtics should draft Dunn at #3.

We then have a top top point guard that any other team would envy and we can package either Dunn or one of our other guards plus other talent  for another top position player like Butler and keep Dunn.

I only believe we should swap with Philly and maybe throw in a second rounder or late first rounder, nothing else.  This trade makes a whole lot of sense for both teams to do and costs us nothing.  We need a center, they need a guard and for both teams their desires did not match the years the position talent were available for each team in respective drafts.



112288

I think Philly would trade Noel to Boston for the #3 pick.
Where I disagree with you is about who has leverage.
Philly is in no hurry to compete this season.
By drafting Simmons, he is a point forward who will have the ball in his hands a lot.
I think they need a SG as much as a PG.
Also, until Philly knows what they can expect from Embiid, I would think they will keep Noel and Okafor on the team, unless it's a really good offer from another team.

#3 and Jerebko for Noel might be realistic.
I wouldn't do it if I was Boston because I'm not very high on Noel, but I can see why some might prefer Noel.
You also have to keep in mind that Noel is a free agent next summer.
The #3 pick is locked into the rookie salary scale for 4-5 years.

TJ,

Any toss-in other then core players. Jerebko is a toss in. But Celtics do have an advantage as Dunn has been rated to be an All Star. Philly is not a destination place for free agents so picking up an elite PG in free agency would be a long shot for Philly. They would rather draft a PG and have them under control for a 3-4 year period at a cheap price.

112288

112288

112288 wrote:This is chess at the highest level in the NBA.  I do think the Celtics are in senior position move on this.  Philly is stuck in a poor position.  They need a point guard really bad, so if they draft Dunn who by all indication will be an All Star player, they are not drafting
Simmons or Ingram.  So that means one of these 2 players drops to the Celtics at #3.

ONLY TRADE FOR NERLENS NOEL ONLY, HE IS THE BEST ALL ROUND CENTER ESPECIALLY SHOT BLOCKING AND LOB PASSES TO DUNK. I WOULD SQUEEZE PHILLY'S BASKET BALLS!

If they draft one of those 2 and not Dunn,  or if Philly balks at a trade with the Celtics, the Celtics should draft Dunn at #3.

We then have a top top point guard that any other team would envy and we can package either Dunn or one of our other guards plus other talent  for another top position player like Butler and keep Dunn.

I only believe we should swap with Philly and maybe throw in a second rounder or late first rounder, nothing else.  This trade makes a whole lot of sense for both teams to do and costs us nothing.  We need a center, they need a guard and for both teams their desires did not match the years the position talent were available for each team in respective drafts.



112288

112288,

I agree.  This is chess and Danny is a Grandmaster.

Good things come to those who wait, it is said, and Danny was very patient NOT snapping at the bait allegedly dangled by Philly at the trade deadline last season. On the other hand, nobody has ever accused Trader Danny of being afraid of pulling the trigger when he can get what he wants.

Chicago is losing Pau Gasol and Noah.  They have NO center.  Okafur would fit them well.  However, if Okafur is the part of the deal that goes to Chicago, then Noel will probably stay in Philly.  We, on the other hand, might end up with Butler as part of the deal (we'd have to give up picks and players too, of course, but Butler in-bound might be what we get out of it all).

Danny's big-game hunting.  He did the small, babysteps up the ladder the last year or two with Jonas and Amir, picking up players who have value in trades (or whose 2nd year is not picked up) but now he's looking for players that move the needle.

The draft is in two days.  IF this deal, or any other, goes down involving the #3 pick it will go down between now and when we are on the clock on Thursday.  Whichever team is looking to trade for #3 will want to make sure we pick the player they want (or we trade the pick ahead of the draft and let them pick them themselves).  If Philly wants #3 so they can get Dunn they will want to make damn sure we don't take Brown or Hield or someone else instead.

The bubbling is beginning, the stew is almost ready...


bob


.

two days out now.

my gut tells me that Danny ends up with Cousins from the kings.

Divac has the chance to remake his team this year. he can get assets for Cousins and let Rondo walk as a free agent. taking the "bad attitudes" off the team

Joerger likes defensive minded players and had Koufas as his BU center at Memphis. So I think he'd be fine with Cauley-Stein and Koufas at center.

they need a PG, PF and defensive midned players.

Danny makes the deal. Deciding that The Celtics strong coaching and history along with finally playing for a winning team will get Cousins head where it needs to be.


the deal

#3, #23, #31, 2018 first round pick and M. Smart
for
Cousins and B. McLemore

Note that McLemore would have been the third best 3 point shooter on our roster last year , slighlty ahgead of Bradley.

Celtics off-season needs:

1) another go-to scorer- Cousins, check

2) better 3 point shooting- McLemore over Smart, check

3) More rebounding- Cousins, check

4) Danny rolling the dice- always.


Possible roster:

Starters:
Cousins
Amir
Crowder
Bradley
Thomas

rotation players:
Turner
Kelly O.
McLemore
Jerebko
Rozier

Deep bench:
Hunter
Mickey
Young
Maker- #16 pick?
A. Barber- #45 pick?

rest of the draft:

#35 pick is the best draft and stash Euro left on the board.

#51- Georgios Papangiannis 7-2 Euro draft and stash

#58- D. Hamilton or D. Finney-Smith to compete with young for a roster spot.

kdp59 wrote:two days out now.

my gut tells me that Danny ends up with Cousins from the kings.

Divac has the chance to remake his team this year. he can get assets for Cousins and let Rondo walk as a free agent. taking the "bad attitudes" off the team

Joerger likes defensive minded players and had Koufas as his BU center at Memphis. So I think he'd be fine with Cauley-Stein and Koufas at center.

they  need a PG, PF and defensive midned players.

Danny makes the deal. Deciding that The Celtics strong coaching and history along with finally playing for a winning team will get Cousins head where it needs to be.


the deal

#3, #23, #31, 2018 first round pick and M. Smart
for
Cousins and B. McLemore

Note that McLemore would have been the third best 3 point shooter on our roster last year , slighlty ahgead of Bradley.

Celtics off-season needs:

1) another go-to scorer- Cousins, check

2) better 3 point shooting- McLemore over Smart, check

3) More rebounding- Cousins, check

4) Danny rolling the dice- always.


Possible roster:

Starters:
Cousins
Amir
Crowder
Bradley
Thomas

rotation players:
Turner
Kelly O.
McLemore
Jerebko
Rozier

Deep bench:
Hunter
Mickey
Young
Maker- #16 pick?
A. Barber- #45 pick?

rest of the draft:

#35 pick is the best draft and stash Euro left on the board.

#51- Georgios Papangiannis 7-2 Euro draft and stash

#58- D. Hamilton or D. Finney-Smith to compete with young for a roster spot.

kdp,

I am assuming Sullinger would be let go by Boston to another team in your scenario.

If Boston made this trade before 7/1, Amir would have to be sent to Sacramento for salary matching purposes.

Also, what if Sacramento demanded the Brooklyn pick next year (trade picks with Boston) or Brooklyn's 2018 pick?
Would you make the trade with one of the future Brooklyn picks included?

kdp59 wrote:two days out now.

my gut tells me that Danny ends up with Cousins from the kings.

Divac has the chance to remake his team this year. he can get assets for Cousins and let Rondo walk as a free agent. taking the "bad attitudes" off the team

Joerger likes defensive minded players and had Koufas as his BU center at Memphis. So I think he'd be fine with Cauley-Stein and Koufas at center.

they  need a PG, PF and defensive midned players.

Danny makes the deal. Deciding that The Celtics strong coaching and history along with finally playing for a winning team will get Cousins head where it needs to be.


the deal

#3, #23, #31, 2018 first round pick and M. Smart
for
Cousins and B. McLemore

Note that McLemore would have been the third best 3 point shooter on our roster last year , slighlty ahgead of Bradley.

Celtics off-season needs:

1) another go-to scorer- Cousins, check

2) better 3 point shooting- McLemore over Smart, check

3) More rebounding- Cousins, check

4) Danny rolling the dice- always.


Possible roster:

Starters:
Cousins
Amir
Crowder
Bradley
Thomas

rotation players:
Turner
Kelly O.
McLemore
Jerebko
Rozier

Deep bench:
Hunter
Mickey
Young
Maker- #16 pick?
A. Barber- #45 pick?

rest of the draft:

#35 pick is the best draft and stash Euro left on the board.

#51- Georgios Papangiannis 7-2 Euro draft and stash

#58- D. Hamilton or D. Finney-Smith to compete with young for a roster spot.

kdp,


1.  I think it will take a lot more than that to get Cousins, even if the 2018 pick is Brooklyn's and not ours.  #23 and #31 will not impress them.

2.  They just fired George Karl because they wanted Boogie more than him.  Why would they hire a coach who was philosophically opposed to a player they fired a coach to make happy?

3.  Cousins and McLemore make a total of $19M.  Smart makes $3.4M.  The $ don't work.  McLemore for Smart works because they make about the same $.  Amir + Smart for Cousins + McLemore works.  This trade with James Young thrown in works too.  I don't know what other picks etc we'd have to give up here, but at least the $ work.


bob


.

tjmakz wrote:

kdp59 wrote:two days out now.

my gut tells me that Danny ends up with Cousins from the kings.

Divac has the chance to remake his team this year. he can get assets for Cousins and let Rondo walk as a free agent. taking the "bad attitudes" off the team

Joerger likes defensive minded players and had Koufas as his BU center at Memphis. So I think he'd be fine with Cauley-Stein and Koufas at center.

they  need a PG, PF and defensive midned players.

Danny makes the deal. Deciding that The Celtics strong coaching and history along with finally playing for a winning team will get Cousins head where it needs to be.


the deal

#3, #23, #31, 2018 first round pick and M. Smart
for
Cousins and B. McLemore

Note that McLemore would have been the third best 3 point shooter on our roster last year , slighlty ahgead of Bradley.

Celtics off-season needs:

1) another go-to scorer- Cousins, check

2) better 3 point shooting- McLemore over Smart, check

3) More rebounding- Cousins, check

4) Danny rolling the dice- always.


Possible roster:

Starters:
Cousins
Amir
Crowder
Bradley
Thomas

rotation players:
Turner
Kelly O.
McLemore
Jerebko
Rozier

Deep bench:
Hunter
Mickey
Young
Maker- #16 pick?
A. Barber- #45 pick?

rest of the draft:

#35 pick is the best draft and stash Euro left on the board.

#51- Georgios Papangiannis 7-2 Euro draft and stash

#58- D. Hamilton or D. Finney-Smith to compete with young for a roster spot.

kdp,

I am assuming Sullinger would be let go by Boston to another team in your scenario.

If Boston made this trade before 7/1, Amir would have to be sent to Sacramento for salary matching purposes.

Also, what if Sacramento demanded the Brooklyn pick next year (trade picks with Boston) or Brooklyn's 2018 pick?
Would you make the trade with one of the future Brooklyn picks included?

TJ,

Amir has a team option 2nd year for the same $.  So the deal doesn't have to happen before 7/1, Danny could just pick up Amir's contract (or promise Sacto he will).  Or not, and Sacto doesn't exercise that option and his $ falls off.  Either way, I don't see where timing is an issue other than Sacto would want to have control (or a commitment from Danny) over who that #3 pick will be to do this deal.

Here is another possibility:

Sully gets a sign-and-trade for roughly $10-11M, which might be about what he gets on the open market with the cap going to $94M and replaces Amir in the deal and McLemore is taken out.  This works, according to the ESPN Trade Machine.  I used Isaiah Thomas and Sully to replace Amir's $12M.  IT would not be included in the deal, I just simulated his inclusion so I could use his salary to check that it would fly.  It does.  If Sully gets a couple million less than $10-11M then James Young can be included.  He is in the last year of his contract, so it would be small short-term pain for Sacto.
 
Personally, I don't think Sacto will give up Cousins, but these are some ways to make the numbers work if they do.



bob


.

bob,

kdp has Amir on the roster and not in the trade.
The trade for Cousins couldn't happen before 7/1 without Amir's contract being included.
In order for Amir and Jerebko's contracts not to be guaranteed for next year, they would have to be waived by 7/2. Maybe a team wouldn't want to pay Amir $12m next season. This could be a factor in Boston trades after 6/30.
The sign and trade for Sullinger can't happen until next month, so that doesn't help with getting a trade done on draft day.

I agree that Cousins is probably not going anywhere this season.

KDP<

Getting Cousins is far better than getting either Noel or Okafor even if he costs considerably more, but if it comes to Noel for the number 3 pick I think that since Philly seems to REALLY want Dunn that Ainge does should not bend over backwards to make this trade.  In fact, he should WIN this possible trade.

Noel is very likely contribute much more for the Cs in the next two or three years than any particular draft pick who is not Ingram and Simmons.  Noel may even pay strong dividends for many years to come as he is still quite young and is very likely to still improve in all aspects of his game for about five more years.

If Philly thinks that Dunn is THE solution to their point guard position moving forward then he should be able to send Noel to Boston for the #3 pick, James Young and Hunter (or perhaps a second round pick or two).  Getting a top level (future All Star?) point guard now who is going to fit right into the 'ers time frame for rebuilding is certainly worth giving up an offensively challenged center who they are looking to remove from their over crowded front court. They obviously think that Noel is now their number 3 center behind Okafor and Embiid.

KDP<

Getting Cousins is far better than getting either Noel or Okafor even if he costs considerably more, but if it comes to Noel for the number 3 pick I think that since Philly seems to REALLY want Dunn that Ainge does should not bend over backwards to make this trade. In fact, he should WIN this possible trade.

Noel is very likely contribute much more for the Cs in the next two or three years than any particular draft pick who is not Ingram and Simmons. Noel may even pay strong dividends for many years to come as he is still quite young and is very likely to still improve in all aspects of his game for about five more years.

If Philly thinks that Dunn is THE solution to their point guard position moving forward then he should be able to send Noel to Boston for the #3 pick, James Young and perhaps a second round pick. Getting a top level (future All Star?) point guard now who is going to fit right into the 'ers time frame for rebuilding is certainly worth giving up an offensively challenged center who they are looking to remove from their over crowded front court.

yep that trade cannot become official until after the new cap year takes effect.

I am pretty sure this happens during the draft with teams making picks for other teams with a deal in place.

yes Sully and Zeller sign elsewhere.

I would send the Nets pick in 2018, but NOT next years.

Smart , #3, 23 & 31 and 2018 nets pick for Cousins and Mclemore........I think that is a very fair offer for both teams.

another way to look at it,. three possible lottery picks for Cousins and #23 & 31 for McLemore.

I already explained why it makes sense for the Kings, but to elaborate farther, they could draft Dunn (#3), Sabonis (#, Prince (#23) and Bentil (#31) along with Smart, Gay, WCS, Belinelli, Collison, Koufas and Casspi. Cap space to sign a top level FA if they can find one ( or trade for Joerger old friend Z. Randolph).

not a bd re-boot for Divac in year one of Joerger's regime.

as for Okafor or Noel.... I would be ok with Okafor for the #3 pick straight up (though i obviously feel cousins is a much better player).

Noel is a better fit than Okafor here perhaps, but he only has one year left on his deal and will be a RFA the next season. A possible one year rental is not enough for the #3 pick to me.

I like Okafor over Noel.

If Noel had more of a stretch game then he would definitely be my choice.

Okafor did pretty damn good as a rookie averaging 17.5 PPG and 7 Rebounds and 1.2 blocks There is a lot of upside there.

He has yet to prove that he can be a great defensive center (rim protection and rebounding) But he can flat out score the basketball. He is probably going to be 20/10 guy in a year or two.

I am not advocating that we trade the pick.

dboss

I love Okafor's offensive game, but here's two stats that are very disturbing about Okafor.
Out of 77 players that played center last year, he ranked dead last (77 out of 77) in Defensive Real Plus-Minus and Real Plus Minus.
I know Philly wasn't good, but they were worse when Okafor was on the court.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/9

KDP,

You are giving way too much for Cousins and especially a great pick in a deep draft next year / 2017.

Cousins brings problems not solutions to the Celtics. We can get a deal done with Philly I am sure, it is just who we get as our center, less the head aches and a lot lot of salary cap room.

112288

112288 wrote:KDP,

You are giving way too much for Cousins and especially a great pick in a deep draft next year / 2017.

Cousins brings problems not solutions to the Celtics.  We can get a deal done with Philly I am sure, it is just who we get as our center, less the head aches and a lot lot of salary cap room.

112288

I would note I said the 2018 first rounder not next seasons.

I understand many want no part of Cousins.

I just see him as the best possible player Danny may be able to get and IF he can I think he will try. Again i'ts just my gut here I have read nothing ANYWHERE that says the Kings are looking at moving Cousins now (perhaps that is the reason my radar is up).

for Divac to move Cousins he would need to get a LOT back, Smart ( a #6 pick) , a #3 pick (Dunn) and a possible lottery pick in 2018 I think could make him think about it.

KDP

OK missed that.

112288

Brian Geltzeiler: League sources tell hoopscritic.com that the Celtics’ target in trade talks with Philadelphia is Nerlens Noel. 3 hours ago – via Twitter hoopscritic



The hot stove rumor mill is starting to sizzle for the Boston Celtics. Former Providence head coach Tim Welsh reported on CSN’s Sports Tonight that the Philadelphia Sixers are pushing to complete a trade for Boston’s third pick before Thursday’s NBA Draft. “Philly has told Kris Dunn’s camp and his agent they are trying to push the buttons to have this happen before the draft,” Welsh said. “They’ve been in Providence locked in to the city talking to everyone that’s ever encountered Kris Dunn. They are putting the full court press on the Celtics to acquire the third pick. It could go down in the next two days, so we’ll see. Boston has the upper hand in knowing what Philly wants.” 10 hours ago – via Celtics Blog


bob
MY NOTE:  Noel would be good.  My beef with him is his lousy inside offense, his non-existent outside offense and his .600 career frito percentage. In other words, he can only play one side of the ball.


.

I still think the 6ers trading Okafor or Noel is unlikely until they know if they have anything at all in Embiid.

That considered, it would make sense if Dunn was their target with our #3 pick.

If that were the case, I'd much rather have Okafor than Noel.  Intriguing if there's any substance to it.

Shy of that, I like keeping the pick and taking Hield.

I agree with NYCelt that it's doubtful Philly trades Okafor or Noel right now.

But honestly, if I am Philly I make a trade with Boston for the #3 for Noel even though Embiid is still a big question mark.

If Philly has Dunn, Saric, Simmons and Okafor as 4 starters and almost $60m in cap space, that puts them in a great position.

I am doubtful Boston wants to give up the #3 for Noel.
He's not the star they are looking for.