John Lucas:  Sullinger must give teams more reasons to trust him

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/2016/07/ex_coach_jared_sullinger_must_give_teams_more_reasons_to_trust_him




John Lucas:  Sullinger must give teams more reasons to trust him



Steve Bulpett


Monday, July 11, 2016




Credit: Matt Stone
Boston Celtics center Jared Sullinger and center Kelly Olynyk on the bench during the fourth quarter of Game 6 of the NBA basketball first-round playoff series against the Atlanta Hawks at the TD Garden on Thursday, April 28, 2016. Staff photo by Matt Stone




LAS VEGAS -- The Celtics will talk about what a tough decision it was to rescind Jared Sullinger’s qualifying offer, thus making him an unrestricted free agent. They will note how the addition of Al Horford created a frontcourt logjam that forced them to part ways with the 2012 first-round pick.

They will make it seem like it was an agonizing call that came down to the last minute. But, in fact, this decision was essentially made several months ago and presumed the Celts would certainly be able to upgrade their roster at that position.


The club didn’t extend Sullinger’s rookie contract prior to last season because they weren’t sure he would be able to maintain the conditioning gains made during a summer working with the great John Lucas in Houston. Sullinger had dropped weight, but, especially with the huge rise in the salary cap and free agent possibilities on the way, the Celtics weren’t interested in locking him up on a big number.

Lucas understands. After taking Sullinger into his program following a family intervention of sorts last year, he saw the then 23-year-old struggle with weight issues and other personal obstacles.

“I told him, ‘People don’t trust you, and you want to be trusted. You have to give them something to trust you. You have to give them a reason to trust you. You’ve almost got to let them know,’” said Lucas, who recently was hired by the Rockets as head of player development.

“I called him when the season ended, and he said, ‘Coach, I don’t know if I can do all that work again like that.’ And I said, ‘It’s the only way you’re going to make it.’”

Sullinger averaged 11.1 points to Horford’s 14.3 this past season and 7.7 rebounds to Horford’s 8.9 -- and Sullinger was that close in a full 8.6 fewer minutes per game. Horford’s shooting percentages and defense easily make him the better player, however. And the Celtics chose to give him a maximum contract of four years averaging more than $28 million per while rescinding the qualifying offer of some $4.4 million to Sullinger, who is six years younger.

Others in the league agreed with the Celtics’ assessment and were apparently unwilling to go long term at large dollars. Sullinger will get another season to prove himself worthy of such a commitment, having agreed to a one-year deal with Toronto reportedly in the $6 million range.

To get where he wants, Lucas believes he will have to commit to a different way of thinking.

“Jared still hasn’t figured out who he wants to be, and when he does, he’s going to take off,” Lucas said. “He’s still fighting anybody and everybody about who knows best. He’ll give in to a point, but he won’t... let... go. And if he’d ever just let go and accept what people are telling him, I think he can be great. I love his talent. I haven’t seen a lot of guys with his talent.

“He’s really highly talented. He’s got 3-point range. He played well. But I think the Celtics were concerned about his weight all year.”

With good reason -- though Lucas thinks there might be more to it than simply eating too much.

“He really worked and got himself down to about 282 last year when he left, but he began to put weight on when he went back up,” he said. “He worked had all summer.

“I really think he has some kind of food intolerance or some other thing. It’s not like he’s not conscious of it. I think he just has to investigate more what dictates his weight. I recommended to him that he go see a holistic doctor or some kind of doctor about what food allergies he might have. My daughter went to a food allergy doctor and cut out yeast and bread, and she dropped 40 pounds in like three months just by taking that out of her diet. I think Jared, as much as he ran and worked, he should have been around 210.

“When he’s in shape, his talent can take over. But he gets out of shape, and then he gets tired and his shot gets blocked.”

The rest of the NBA took note. The Celtics had mentioned Sullinger in trades numerous times, but there was no realistic interest. In the end, the Celts were more than ready to move on.

John Lucas still has hope for Sullinger. But he knows he has to confront issues of both body and mind before realizing his potential.

“I think there are more issues than just the weight,” said Lucas, whose own career was diminished by drug problems. “I think something’s going on, because he worked so much that he should have been ever further along than he was. Then when he stopped for a couple of days, his weight would go up. And he’s a guy who retains water.

“But I like Jared. I hope he deals with all these things, because the kid knows how to play.”




bob


.

if the season was 40 games a year and you only had to play 20 minutes a game, then hes your man.

unfortunately thats not the case

What blew me away was Lucas saying how Sully "got himself down to about 282 last year when he left, but he began to put weight on when he went back up,” he said. “He worked had all summer."

DOWN to 282.  Wow.


bob


.

"I think Jared, as much as he ran and worked, he should have been around 210."

Yeah, if you only weighed one of his legs.

John Lucas knows what he is talking about. He has fought demons for a long time and is probably quite able to spot such demons in other people.

Sullinger's demon is food, and until he can lick his problem he is going to fall out of the NBA. This shot in Toronto could be his last.

I do have an issue with Lucas, however. If he thought that Sullinger should have been at 210 pounds at the end of working with Lucas why did Lucas not catch on the severe eating problem that Sullinger had/has?

This eating issue needs to be addressed way before a conditioning program. The mental side of the eating is key to Sullinger making a longer NBA career.

Lucas wasn't being literal when he said Sully should have been 210 lbs. Sully's bones weigh that much.

Lucas of course knew about Sully's issue with food, just by taking one look at his fat ass. That doesn't mean Lucas could have magically cured Sully's food issue when Sully clearly doesn't want to admit that it's a huge problem.

“I really think he has some kind of food intolerance or some other thing. It’s not like he’s not conscious of it. I think he just has to investigate more what dictates his weight. I recommended to him that he go see a holistic doctor or some kind of doctor about what food allergies he might have. My daughter went to a food allergy doctor and cut out yeast and bread, and she dropped 40 pounds in like three months just by taking that out of her diet. I think Jared, as much as he ran and worked, he should have been around 210.

If Lucas thought it was a food intolerance, he should have made Sully see a doctor and check into it.

Last summer!

gyso wrote:“I really think he has some kind of food intolerance or some other thing. It’s not like he’s not conscious of it. I think he just has to investigate more what dictates his weight. I recommended to him that he go see a holistic doctor or some kind of doctor about what food allergies he might have. My daughter went to a food allergy doctor and cut out yeast and bread, and she dropped 40 pounds in like three months just by taking that out of her diet. I think Jared, as much as he ran and worked, he should have been around 210.

If Lucas thought it was a food intolerance, he should have made Sully see a doctor and check into it.  

Last summer!

Sully doesn't have a food intolerance.

It's obvious he can tolerate ANY food.

From Feb 2015

Interviewer:  I got a question myself to ask you.  What’s wrong with Sully?

Danny:  I have to tell it like is.  Jared is a fat fuck.  It is not me who gave him that name.  His dad Satch has been calling him that since he was a baby.    It is a horror story.  When he was 3 years old he would wait for the family to fall asleep at night and then make his way downstairs to the kitchen.  He would literally eat anything that was not nailed down.  All the groceries for the week GONE.  I’ve talked with him several times.  I told him you’re fat.  I told him “you’re below standards”  he promised to get in better shape this year but we had to cut his per diem in half because he won’t stop eating.

The stress fracture was not a basketball related injury.

Let me tell you what really happened.  Jared loves all you can eat buffets.  He told me “A good buffet can be a glorious smorgasbord once one locates the redemptive dish”

He was on one of his daily pigtrips and stopped in at a Boston area all you can eat place and he would not let any of the patrons get to the food.  Every time they reached for something he would block them out.  He would just slide over and put his butt between the person and the food.  Finally the manager of the restaurant had to call the police.  He starting crying and then jumping up and down yelling “But I want it…but I want it.”

Anyways that is how he got the stress fracture”

Interviewer:  interesting.

Rather than mock the man more about his weight let's hope he does what Lucas says and figures out what his food intolerance is. 

It is true that people can eat less calories and workout HARD and not lose the weight based on allergies and gluten sensitivities and things like that. Maybe 210 was a bit tongue in cheek. But clearly he feels Sully got to 280 and something strange involving his own body and his metabolism kept him from maybe being 250-265, which is where I always thought his playing weight should be. 

Sully sounds too stubborn to really investigate this issue with a holistic healer as suggested. Maybe if he cut gluten and alcohol out of his diet and dropped to that weight he could hit the free agency market and get a 4/70 deal like Turner. If he does not he probably gets another 'prove-it' deal, maybe 2/15 like Ezeli. Big difference. Figure it out Sully!

Ram wrote:Rather than mock the man more about his weight let's hope he does what Lucas says and figures out what his food intolerance is. 

It is true that people can eat less calories and workout HARD and not lose the weight based on allergies and gluten sensitivities and things like that. Maybe 210 was a bit tongue in cheek. But clearly he feels Sully got to 280 and something strange involving his own body and his metabolism kept him from maybe being 250-265, which is where I always thought his playing weight should be. 

Sully sounds too stubborn to really investigate this issue with a holistic healer as suggested. Maybe if he cut gluten and alcohol out of his diet and dropped to that weight he could hit the free agency market and get a 4/70 deal like Turner. If he does not he probably gets another 'prove-it' deal, maybe 2/15 like Ezeli. Big difference. Figure it out Sully!

Pretty amazing Turner is getting paid three times what Sullinger got.

The Raptors are getting an absolute bargain. Yeah, Sully is a little overweight, but his production for those dollars - that's a steal. Really, who cares about appearance, as long as the guy produces. I'm glad we got Horford, but given the money thrown around this summer, this was an excellent signing by Toronto. This is a case where Sully's appearance and the league perception that he too fat obscured the fact that the can get you 12 and 8 in 23 minutes. Those are are very good numbers. For all this talk about analytics dictating value, Sully was de-valued largely based on perception.

The Celtics know a little more about Sully than just "perception".

The Celtics, in desperate need of rebounding, and knowing much more about Sully than we outsiders do, decided not only to match Sully's contract, but to actively drop him and make him an unrestricted free agent.

You think Ainge and Stevens were simply fooled by "perception"?

arambone wrote:The Celtics know a little more about Sully than just "perception".

The Celtics, in desperate need of rebounding, and knowing much more about Sully than we outsiders do, decided not only to match Sully's contract, but to actively drop him and make him an unrestricted free agent.

You think Ainge and Stevens were simply fooled by "perception"?

I wasn't implying the Celtics should have kept him - I would much rather have Horford for reasons stated by others here and in the press. I was making the point that the Raptors got a bargain. Look at the salaries being handed out this summer. Sully is going to get you 12 and 8 in under 25 minutes. Other players with these numbers (and worse) are getting astronomical salaries - are they really worth astronomically more than Sullinger? I would say not. Certainly in terms of points per dollar, or rebounds per dollar, these players are not three and four times more valuable than Sully. Sully wasn't a great defender, but he did okay against some of the behemeth centers, so its not like he plays no defense. I know the game is not that simple, and there are other factors, like system fit, effort, clutchness. However, "intangibles" are difficult to quantify (and thus tricky to monetize). I terms of quantifiable production, I would say Sully's 12 and 8 in under 25 minutes for 6 million is a pretty damn good deal.

I don't think that Ainge was fooled by perception. If anything, Danny started, or at least fed, this perception. Why would he do this, since if anything it would drive down Sully's possible trade value? I don't know. Maybe he was trying to motivate Jared? Maybe he and Brad decided Sully wasn't a great fit for how they wanted to play, and wanted to get the fans and media on his side for the eventual separation? Maybe he was just making a simple true statement that Sully needed to lose weight, and it snow-balled in an unpredicted way? I don't know, and it's really beside the point. The point is not that we should have kept him, but rather that in today's NBA, 12 and 8 in under 25 minutes from a guy who seems to be a decent citizen, is good value.

Shamrock1000 wrote:

arambone wrote:The Celtics know a little more about Sully than just "perception".

The Celtics, in desperate need of rebounding, and knowing much more about Sully than we outsiders do, decided not only to match Sully's contract, but to actively drop him and make him an unrestricted free agent.

You think Ainge and Stevens were simply fooled by "perception"?

I wasn't implying the Celtics should have kept him - I would much rather have Horford for reasons stated by others here and in the press. I was making the point that the Raptors got a bargain. Look at the salaries being handed out this summer. Sully is going to get you 12 and 8 in under 25 minutes. Other players with these numbers (and worse) are getting astronomical salaries - are they really worth astronomically more than Sullinger? I would say not. Certainly in terms of points per dollar, or rebounds per dollar, these players are not three and four times more valuable than Sully. Sully wasn't a great defender, but he did okay against some of the behemeth centers, so its not like he plays no defense. I know the game is not that simple, and there are other factors, like system fit, effort, clutchness. However, "intangibles" are difficult to quantify (and thus tricky to monetize). I terms of quantifiable production, I would say Sully's 12 and 8 in under 25 minutes for 6 million is a pretty damn good deal.

I don't think that Ainge was fooled by perception. If anything, Danny started, or at least fed, this perception. Why would he do this, since if anything it would drive down Sully's possible trade value? I don't know. Maybe he was trying to motivate Jared? Maybe he and Brad decided Sully wasn't a great fit for how they wanted to play, and wanted to get the fans and media on his side for the eventual separation? Maybe he was just making a simple true statement that Sully needed to lose weight, and it snow-balled in an unpredicted way? I don't know, and it's really beside the point. The point is not that we should have kept him, but rather that in today's NBA, 12 and 8 in under 25 minutes from a guy who seems to be a decent citizen, is good value.

His haircut cost him money.

steve3344 wrote:

Shamrock1000 wrote:

arambone wrote:The Celtics know a little more about Sully than just "perception".

The Celtics, in desperate need of rebounding, and knowing much more about Sully than we outsiders do, decided not only to match Sully's contract, but to actively drop him and make him an unrestricted free agent.

You think Ainge and Stevens were simply fooled by "perception"?

I wasn't implying the Celtics should have kept him - I would much rather have Horford for reasons stated by others here and in the press. I was making the point that the Raptors got a bargain. Look at the salaries being handed out this summer. Sully is going to get you 12 and 8 in under 25 minutes. Other players with these numbers (and worse) are getting astronomical salaries - are they really worth astronomically more than Sullinger? I would say not. Certainly in terms of points per dollar, or rebounds per dollar, these players are not three and four times more valuable than Sully. Sully wasn't a great defender, but he did okay against some of the behemeth centers, so its not like he plays no defense. I know the game is not that simple, and there are other factors, like system fit, effort, clutchness. However, "intangibles" are difficult to quantify (and thus tricky to monetize). I terms of quantifiable production, I would say Sully's 12 and 8 in under 25 minutes for 6 million is a pretty damn good deal.

I don't think that Ainge was fooled by perception. If anything, Danny started, or at least fed, this perception. Why would he do this, since if anything it would drive down Sully's possible trade value? I don't know. Maybe he was trying to motivate Jared? Maybe he and Brad decided Sully wasn't a great fit for how they wanted to play, and wanted to get the fans and media on his side for the eventual separation? Maybe he was just making a simple true statement that Sully needed to lose weight, and it snow-balled in an unpredicted way? I don't know, and it's really beside the point. The point is not that we should have kept him, but rather that in today's NBA, 12 and 8 in under 25 minutes from a guy who seems to be a decent citizen, is good value.

His haircut cost him money.

As it should have. Marcus Smart should take note...

at least Smart isn't fat and he flys up and down the court

cowens/oldschool wrote:at least Smart isn't fat and he flys up and down the court

At some point Smart will need to live up to his potential too, or run the risk of becoming over-rated. Kid has gotta learn to shoot.

Shamrock wrote:I would say Sully's 12 and 8 in under 25 minutes for 6 million is a pretty damn good deal.

I would say so too, if Sully hadn't told Lucas that he doesn't have the energy to work that hard again.

Raptors may very well have only gotten fair value, or even less if Sully is a letdown and a distraction in the locker room.

In a contract year, Sully basically completely melted down at the end, like he wasn't sure if he could even keep his career going another year.

arambone wrote:

Shamrock wrote:I would say Sully's 12 and 8 in under 25 minutes for 6 million is a pretty damn good deal.

I would say so too, if Sully hadn't told Lucas that he doesn't have the energy to work that hard again.

Raptors may very well have only gotten fair value, or even less if Sully is a letdown and a distraction in the locker room.

In a contract year, Sully basically completely melted down at the end, like he wasn't sure if he could even keep his career going another year.

he showed nothing in the playoffs and thats being kind, he proved in the end after 4 years he cannot be trusted to do his job on the floor and its better to go in another direction and develop other options, the way the season ended its no guarantee he can put up another 12 and 8....hes a soft round guy with no hops who cannot play many minutes hard.

Yeah, he definitely played good/great for first 2/3rds of the season, then fell off a cliff.

cowens/oldschool wrote:

arambone wrote:

Shamrock wrote:I would say Sully's 12 and 8 in under 25 minutes for 6 million is a pretty damn good deal.

I would say so too, if Sully hadn't told Lucas that he doesn't have the energy to work that hard again.

Raptors may very well have only gotten fair value, or even less if Sully is a letdown and a distraction in the locker room.

In a contract year, Sully basically completely melted down at the end, like he wasn't sure if he could even keep his career going another year.

he showed nothing in the playoffs and thats being kind, he proved in the end after 4 years he cannot be trusted to do his job on the floor and its better to go in another direction and develop other options, the way the season ended its no guarantee he can put up another 12 and 8....hes a soft round guy with no hops who cannot play many minutes hard.

Sullinger's career averages are ~ 11 and 8 for 25 minutes. If I were judging Sully's ability, I would trust these numbers from a huge sample size more than his numbers from a single paly-off series. Drawing conclusions from a sub-set of the entire sample is called cherry picking - you can say anything you want depending on the subset you choose. Additionally, since his numbers have been pretty constant, that means he put up similar numbers after summers where he did not work with Lucas. Despite all the press about his work with Lucas, it didn't really affect his performance all that much. Hence, the logical conclusion is that even if he does not put in the same effort with Lucas this summer, one can still expect similar numbers. Does he wear out after 25 minutes? Maybe, I don't have the data to analyze this. Regardless, 6 million for 11 and 8 over those 25 minutes9with an ~ 17 PER) is bargain given the money thrown around this summer. As for Arambone's comments about Sully being a distraction, I have not ever heard he is any kind of problem in the locker room. And as for his 'meltdown' - that word seems like hyperbole. I'm not even a huge Sully fan. Honestly, I have no feeling one way or the other about his leaving. I'm just recognizing that the Raptors are getting decent production for relatively low dollars.