Do Boston Celtics need to acquire rebounding help? Brad Stevens doesn't shoot down idea

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/01/do_boston_celtics_need_to_acqu.html



Do Boston Celtics need to acquire rebounding help? Brad Stevens doesn't shoot down idea




Toronto Raptors center Jonas Valanciunas (17) hangs from the rim as Boston Celtics forward Amir Johnson (90) stands nearby during the second half of an NBA basketball game Tuesday, Jan. 10, 2017, in Toronto. (Nathan Denette/The Canadian Press via AP)


Jay King | mjking@masslive.com By Jay King | mjking@masslive.com




on January 12, 2017 at 11:15 AM



BOSTON -- One cool thing about Isaiah Thomas' ridiculous offensive boom has been his habit of lifting the Boston Celtics out of unentertaining games. The All-Star did it again Wednesday night against the Washington Wizards. The Celtics looked like they might buckle on the second night of a back-to-back until suddenly Thomas took over again. He channeled Larry Bird, unleashed a wrist-watch celebration, high-fived Floyd Mayweather and removed Boston from any peril. The game flipped from boring to must-watch television in an instant, and the Celtics survived.

But Thomas' outbursts have also hidden some of his team's flaws. Before he scored 20 fourth-quarter points, the Celtics defense got roasted. Part of the struggles could be blamed on the team's rebounding, which has lived in a land of suck this season. Boston surrendered a total of 16 offensive boards, including six in the third quarter, when it didn't really matter that the Wizards normally failed to score on their initial field goal attempts. Thanks to nine second-chance points, they carried a lead into the fourth quarter anyway.

For the season, the Celtics rank dead last in defensive rebound rate and 29th in overall rebound rate. Considering they don't have much size or interior physicality, it seemed worth asking head coach Brad Stevens how much the current roster can improve in those categories -- or whether the Celtics require a personnel upgrade to shore up the rebounding problems. Before beating the Wizards, 117-108, Stevens didn't exactly bat away the query.

"It's a good question," the coach said. "From my standpoint, from my seat, I look at, how can we block out a little bit better, how can we pursue the ball a little bit better. How can we rotate guys a little bit better to have better matchups, whatever the case may be. Do we need to switch more, even though we're switching a lot? Because that keeps the ball in front of you and let's you block out at the very least. But I've said it all year, we're not going to win many rebounding battles. If we can manage it, then we have a chance to win. And nights like (Tuesday night's loss to the Toronto Raptors), those are just exponentially more difficult to overcome because of the level of guard play that (the Raptors have)."

A look across the league reveals some possible low-cost upgrades, as Brian Robb explored for Boston.com last month. One potential option, Andrew Bogut, would certainly help clear the glass. His current defensive rebound rate, 36.7 percent, would lead the NBA if he qualified for the leaderboard. But the Celtics are in a weird position: they don't want to take on any long-term salary, but also must weigh the pros and cons of acquiring a short-term rental. Would Bogut's rebounding help for the rest of this season be worth whatever the price would be, when there's a high, high probability he wouldn't push Boston over the top anyway? Adding a few wins and maybe an extra playoff series victory could have value this summer when the Celtics target free agents, but their primary focus should remain on the future for now.

In the present, the rebounding woes seem likely to continue.

"Our first shot defense, even as I go throughout the year now, and I've really started to break down where we are defensively (Boston's defensive efficiency ranks 20th), and why we are there and everything else, our first shots that we're allowing, I feel pretty good about," Stevens said. "We have to shore up the rebounding somehow."



bob
MY NOTE:  At this point it's pretty obvious we do, isn't it?  It wasn't so glaring when AB was playing but now it is ridiculous.  Kelly has upped his rebounding rate over the past 5 games, from 4.1 to 5.0 in roughly the same number of minutes, but that's not enough to offset the loss of our top rebounder.  On the other hand, over the last 5 games, Smart has dropped from 3.8 rebs/gm to 3.2 despite playing 2.5 more minutes/game.  We said we needed a shooter, and then Gerald Green woke up.  We said we needed a rim protector, and then Horford started to get that done.  Now we need a board monster.


.

The rebounding thread..again.

Of course we need better rebounding and while positioning and rotation are helpful our front line are basically not great players rebounding the ball.

That is the biggest area of need for this team in my opinion.

dboss

Well Yaaaaaaa!

We are at the bottom of the NBA pack in that department. 21 st in OF rebounding and 26th in DF rebounding and 29th in Total rebounds per game.

But rebounding where?   A center...a PF...they do not grow on trees unless you give a ton away for a good player.

112288

as I check out the rebounds per 36 min currently, here a couple possible options I came up with.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2017_per_minute.html


my #1 would be Ken Faried-Den.
I had read reports( on the web) that Denver is looking to move him and his overall minutes are down. While only a 6-8 PF, his reb/36 is at 13.4 and his Blocks /36 are 1.5. His defense would seem to fit right in and he would be an upgrade over Amir in almost every category. He does have two more under contract in the $12-13M range, so we'd buying long term here but he is only 27YO now. We could Send Amir's expiring contract to match the salary's, but they'd want a first of some type also. IF Ainge and Stevens think he is a good fit, I would be willing to send them the Nets pick in 2018 ( not next year) if they held out for that. Though I would prefer to send them Amir and one of our other future first round picks and maybe some seconds. This is the type of deal that screams getting a third team involved.

#2- Bogut-Dal- 32YO and on an expiring contract. Dallas will likely be willing to dump him for some type of future asset, so Amir and a future first ( non- Nets) should get this one done. his per 36min are 13.9-reb and 1.5 Blocks. BUT he hasn't played near 30 min per game for years now. I am also not sure he would fit into Stevens game. But he has the SIZE that many seem to want here.

and since I am talking sheer size:

#3- B. Majanovic-Det- 7-3, 290 # he has more size than almost anyone. and while his per 36 numbers are 17.4 on rebounds and 2.3 on blocks , he is a end of bench type both at SA last year and this year. Detroit signed him to a 3 year dealat $7M per last off season (for some reason). I guess Ainge could take a flyer on him for Zellers expiring and maybe a second round pick ( if Detroit wants to dump his last two years of his deal). Since Zeller plays very little anyway now (even against Toronto when we needed size it seemed), I guess I could see it. Maybe he'd be helpful in those few games we play teams with size, but I doubt he'll ever be more than he is now.

#4- G. Monroe- Mil- Playing more recently for them now, so perhaps the early trade rumors are off now. his per 36 are 11.8 rebounds and 0.8 blocks. So he doesn't help much for blocks (or overall defense to be honest). Good low post scorer and has some beef for sure though. Is he an upgrade over Amir overall? has a player option at $17.9M for next season that he would be a fool to walk away from right now. That means Ainge would be tying his hand somewhat for cap flexibility for another year. We'd have to send Amir and another player from here or somewhere to match his $17M salary this year. Earlier in the off-season, I'd say Milwaukee would be happy with Amir and a second, but I'm not sure now.

KDP

I like the Ken Faried-Den. option and yes I did read about Den moving him. He is tough and he can also score. Not a bad all around player to have on your team. As much of the hype behind the signing of Johnson, he has only showed flashes of brilliance while with the Celtics.

Monroe is interesting in that he gives you offense but not a dominate defender.

Bogut is probably the best short tern deal Danny can make without giving away much in return. I would watch that play out.

112288

you know Faried is not a guy I thought much about coming here before I looked at his rebounding numbers.

his biggest two downsides are he IS undersized for a PF ( Like Milsap) and he has ZERO outside shot ( that won't make Brad happy).

but after I posted this, I thought about Faried, Crowder, Smart and Bradley all in the lineup at the same time and I found myself smiling at the havoc they could create for other teams.

here is a click bait story from the beginning of the season involving a Denver and Boston trade.

http://en.yibada.com/articles/165603/20161007/nba-trade-rumors-kenneth-faried-still-available-celtics-possible-destination.htm


guts of the story is Faried and Galinari to Boston for Brown, Kelly, Amir , Jerebko and possibly a draft pick.

a 4 for 2 trade?

I doubt it and I don;t really like Gallo anyway

now another player Denver has been reportedly talking about moving is W. Barton.

Faried and Barton kills two birds for us in rebounding and scoring off the bench.

I wonder is something like Amir, Jerebko (both expiring) swapping first picks next season ( we lose Bkn's pick but still get a likely top 10 pick from Denver) and a future first could make it happen?

if so would it be worth it?

Faried would be an interesting option.  Smaller PF but with a long wing-span he can board and defend.  He was a player I had hoped we could draft.  I'm not certain what we have that Denver would want in return. Like us, they could use a shooter, so we can't help them there.  I'd stop short of this year's Nets pick.  If we did somehow land Faried, I would be looking for a big center in the 2nd round.

kdp and 112288,

I wouldn't give up either Nets pick for anybody less than an all-star.  This year's is the current odds on favorite for the #1 pick in the draft and I don't see the Nyets getting much better next year with nothing but OUR draft pick and the promise to free agents of not sucking swamp water next year to improve themselves with.

So, offering the potential #1 pick in the draft for Faried is a non-starter, for me.  His offense is strictly clean up.  Here's his shot chart this year.  He has hit exactly one shot from outside the paint.  One.  http://vorped.com/1-nba/2016-2017/player/1319/kenneth-faried/shotchart/

I wouldn't give much for Bogut.  Not a first, unless it was crap.  I know that the 2nd rounder Dallas paid to get him was a GSW fire sale so they could clear space for Durant, but I still wouldn't give much for a 32 year old player that barely scores (3.0ppg in 23mpg).  DEFINITELY on the downside.

I watched the GSW-DET game last night, for a bit.  That Marjanovic is BIG!!  Holy Crap!  He's the only other player in the league besides Ilyasova that looks like he should have bolts coming out of the side of his neck and he looks TWICE Ilyasova's size.  HOWEVER, he has only played a total of 124 minutes season-to-date.  That's nothing.  It's easy to extrapolate to some unreal rebounds/minute number when he doesn't play.  The man he's behind, Aron Baynes, has played 583 minutes and is only averaging 3.9rpg and 4.0ppg in 15mpg.  I watched Marjanovic last night, I was fascinated by his size.  He got an offensive rebound, it just came to him over the top of everybody and he put it in without jumping at all.  Nice size, sure, but can he jump?  At all?  He's 7'3, 290# and looks every pound.  How does 6'10", 260# Aron Baynes justify 4x the minutes, and more, with worse rebounding and scoring? Zeller for Marjanovic, straight up, would work (after 1/15/17). Marjonavic makes $7M/year per the trade machine, but $5.6M per Hoopshype.

Monroe, I say no.  For Amir, sure, but any of our higher quality young players (e.g. Bradley, Smart, Brown) I say no.  He is 80% offense, 20% defense.  He is averaging .8 blocks/36mpg this year.  KELLY OLYNYK IS AVERAGING .8 BLOCKS/36MPG THIS YEAR.  Speaking of Kelly Olynyk, Greg Monroe has taken a grand total of 9 3pt fgas in 6+ seasons.  He has taken 1 3pt fga this year.  That's it.  Horford would have no choice but to play outside since there would be a traffic jam in the paint with Monroe because Monroe DOESN'T shoot from deep.  That does not fit in with Brad's system of SPACE and pace. For what it's worth, Monroe for Amir and Young works, per the ESPN Trade Machine.


bob


.

Bob,

I think that you might be the only other person on our forum who tries to include James Young EVERY time you write about a potential trade by the Cs.

Once, I mentioned trying to get back a bag of practice balls for him, but Ainge still has not been able to move this guy who may have been one of his worst overall draft picks. Melo has been pretty much acknowledged as a terrible pick, and Young was picked six or seven spots higher so he could easily be Ainge's all time worst pick at this point.

Although we usually try to have an agenda for our Friday morning breakfast Cs meeting, Young seems to slip into our conversation every single week, and it is never about how much he is helping the team. He got killed again this morning for being injured.

Bob,

I agree with you on the Nets pick this year as it will likely be top 3. We can get another high quality future player there.

but did my idea of Faried and Barton both for Amir, Jerebko (replace Rozier and Green if you chose here) and swapping that Nets pick with Denvers probable top 10 pick do anything for you?

I think Fab Melo firmly holds down the crown as being the worst ever Ainge draft pick.

Young is a quality NBA player compared to him.

I AM ON RECORD THAT I OPPOSE ANY USE OF THE NETS #1 PICK THIS YEAR IN ANY TRADE REGARDLESS OF WHO IT IS!

Faried remind me of a Leon Powe. If not for injuries to his knee he was great despite his lack of height even at center. So Faried at center and stretching the defense out with Hordford playing PF on offense.............interesting.

112288

There are 3 areas where Boston needs to improve.  Rebounding is issue #1. Issue #2 Is about shot selection.   The Celts move the ball well because perimeter passing options are easy to complete.  #3 is a defensive issue.  The Pick and roll defensive schemes suck.

Rebounding which at this point is mostly related to our frontline, will not improve without upgrades as well as changing some defensive schemes  That begins and ends with our pick and role defense.  Our bigs barely come up to shut down the ball handler coming off the pick.  They have to come all the way up and do it fast.   Then when the shot is taken they are looking at the glass and ignoring their block out assignments.  Our rebounding is pathetic Those are clearly coaching issues as well as average frontline talent.

The Celtics still take too many BAD 3 point shots at the expense of any meaningful low post offense.  This insane, just keep shooting threes, mentality has been embraced and encouraged by Brad Stevens.  

Post offense is a must. Pick and Roll defense and rebounding and coaching still has a long way to go before achieving a measure of technical proficiency.

I think those are fixable deficiencies.  

Dboss