Celtics made a trade offer to San Antonio

k_j_88 wrote:

fierce wrote:mrkleen09

I really, really, want to beat GSW.

Kevin Durant really destroyed the NBA Finals when he chose GSW instead of the Celtics back in 2016.

As currently constructed, this Celts team is good enough to reach the Finals next year.
But even with Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum, and Horford, it will not be enough.
If you guys watched the NBA Finals the last 2 years, it's not that the Cavs are bad, GSW is that good!

The Cavs needed Kyrie to score 40 points just to win one game in the 2017 NBA Finals.

This year the Cavs couldn't even win one game.
Lebron score 50 points and the Cavs still lose?

Only way we beat GSW is if we match or better their star power.

Patience is a virtue, and patience is something that will serve the Celtics well.

We don't need to make any major upgrades. And if we are going to make a move, it had better been for a legitimate, game-changing big. If we have Hayward, Tatum, and Brown, all relatively young, then we don't need another wing. Why trade one wing for another? It doesn't make sense. If we went after Kawhi, we'd have to give up one of our max contract players anyway. Kawhi makes $20M, $8M more than Brown and Tatum combined. Honestly, I'd rather roll with the guys we've got who are already better than Kawhi was when he came into the league.

Why should we risk our cap flexibility and young talent for someone we don't know is healthy or not? The gap between the Warriors and Celtics is not as big as you're making it out to be. Have some faith in this team.


KJ

Can’t argue that. The only point I want to stress is this theory I keep hearing about Brown and Tatum already being better than Kawhi when he came into the league. Though that may be true, it doesn’t mean much.
I’m hoping that they will but It certainly Doesn’t mean that either will END UP better than Kawhi.

Ditto kj

And I want Gordon to be whole and Kyrie to be in love with the Celtics, but as in everything thing else, there are no guarantees until the season starts and we see.
Same with Jaylen and Jason, another year under their belt, another year of maturity.

I would put my eggs in that basket anyday. They will not lose and have everything to gain.

Right now Kawhi is an injury prone head case, has Spurs organization ever had a problem with their star player before?

My thoughts exactly Cow. And he has the chance to make $208 million with them, spoiled player!

My thoughts exactly Cow.  And he has the chance to make $208 million with them, spoiled player!

Ktronic1 wrote:

k_j_88 wrote:

fierce wrote:mrkleen09

I really, really, want to beat GSW.

Kevin Durant really destroyed the NBA Finals when he chose GSW instead of the Celtics back in 2016.

As currently constructed, this Celts team is good enough to reach the Finals next year.
But even with Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum, and Horford, it will not be enough.
If you guys watched the NBA Finals the last 2 years, it's not that the Cavs are bad, GSW is that good!

The Cavs needed Kyrie to score 40 points just to win one game in the 2017 NBA Finals.

This year the Cavs couldn't even win one game.
Lebron score 50 points and the Cavs still lose?

Only way we beat GSW is if we match or better their star power.

Patience is a virtue, and patience is something that will serve the Celtics well.

We don't need to make any major upgrades. And if we are going to make a move, it had better been for a legitimate, game-changing big. If we have Hayward, Tatum, and Brown, all relatively young, then we don't need another wing. Why trade one wing for another? It doesn't make sense. If we went after Kawhi, we'd have to give up one of our max contract players anyway. Kawhi makes $20M, $8M more than Brown and Tatum combined. Honestly, I'd rather roll with the guys we've got who are already better than Kawhi was when he came into the league.

Why should we risk our cap flexibility and young talent for someone we don't know is healthy or not? The gap between the Warriors and Celtics is not as big as you're making it out to be. Have some faith in this team.


KJ

Can’t argue that. The only point I want to stress is this theory I keep hearing about Brown and Tatum already being better than Kawhi when he came into the league. Though that may be true, it doesn’t mean much.
I’m hoping that they will but It certainly Doesn’t mean that either will END UP better than Kawhi.

I have no doubt that they will be two of the best wings in the league in the foreseeable future. Tatum was taking over games as a rookie. Jaylen improved tremendously between year 1 and 2. I love Kawhi's game but these two we've got are for real. I think they will be better than he is. How many teams in the league have two young wings better than ours? None.


KJ

fierce wrote:

k_j_88 wrote:

fierce wrote:What's more interesting right now is the Lebron to the Celtics rumors.

There's no doubt only way Lebron makes it back to the Finals if he joins the Celtics.

If Lebron stays in Cleveland or goes to another eastern team, no way he's going to beat the Celtics next season.

Whether we like Lebron or not, we have to be ready to accept Lebron becoming a Celtic.

Why should we have to accept something so unlikely? Shit, we don't need Lebron, we just need to be healthy. We came pretty close to reaching the Finals against James having probably the best season of his career while being down 2 All-Stars. Plus, there are plenty of other teams he could end up on. He may even stay in Cleveland.

But as for this trade, Ainge is stupid (if this rumor is true). Why the hell would you even make this type of trade for a player that's obviously not healthy? For all we know, Kawhi may never be the same player he was before. And if you look at his stats, both Tatum and Brown are further ahead than he was. I suspect both of them will become better players than Kawhi in the foreseeable future.


KJ


KJ

The Spurs are willing to give Kawhi the super max.

That's an indication of health not being an issue.

Reason why Kawhi is available is because he doesn't want to play for the Spurs anymore.

The Spurs are not stupid also.
They wouldn't be offering the super max if Kawhi is not healthy.

I read an article that stated that Leonard does not qualify for the supermax salary because he did not make one of the all NBA teams, and was not an MVP because he did not play much last season.

He wants to go to LAL is what we are hearing now but I do not think LA has the assets to make a deal that the Spurs would be comfortable with. LAL would have to get the Spurs to take back Deng and his obnoxious $36 million dollar contract.

Life has almost no guarantees, but seeing how well both J’s carried us through the recent playoff run and knowing how much talent and ability they have and how much they can grow next year and the years after, imagine them at 23 and 24 or 26 and 27....I don’t know how you could trade either....??? A lot of times the best move is no move.

KJ I can’t think of one team that has better wings than us period....

k_j_88 wrote:

Ktronic1 wrote:

k_j_88 wrote:

fierce wrote:mrkleen09

I really, really, want to beat GSW.

Kevin Durant really destroyed the NBA Finals when he chose GSW instead of the Celtics back in 2016.

As currently constructed, this Celts team is good enough to reach the Finals next year.
But even with Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum, and Horford, it will not be enough.
If you guys watched the NBA Finals the last 2 years, it's not that the Cavs are bad, GSW is that good!

The Cavs needed Kyrie to score 40 points just to win one game in the 2017 NBA Finals.

This year the Cavs couldn't even win one game.
Lebron score 50 points and the Cavs still lose?

Only way we beat GSW is if we match or better their star power.

Patience is a virtue, and patience is something that will serve the Celtics well.

We don't need to make any major upgrades. And if we are going to make a move, it had better been for a legitimate, game-changing big. If we have Hayward, Tatum, and Brown, all relatively young, then we don't need another wing. Why trade one wing for another? It doesn't make sense. If we went after Kawhi, we'd have to give up one of our max contract players anyway. Kawhi makes $20M, $8M more than Brown and Tatum combined. Honestly, I'd rather roll with the guys we've got who are already better than Kawhi was when he came into the league.

Why should we risk our cap flexibility and young talent for someone we don't know is healthy or not? The gap between the Warriors and Celtics is not as big as you're making it out to be. Have some faith in this team.


KJ

Can’t argue that. The only point I want to stress is this theory I keep hearing about Brown and Tatum already being better than Kawhi when he came into the league. Though that may be true, it doesn’t mean much.
I’m hoping that they will but It certainly Doesn’t mean that either will END UP better than Kawhi.

I have no doubt that they will be two of the best wings in the league in the foreseeable future. Tatum was taking over games as a rookie. Jaylen improved tremendously between year 1 and 2. I love Kawhi's game but these two we've got are for real. I think they will be better than he is. How many teams in the league have two young wings better than ours? None.


KJ

KJ I agree with you about this. Although we know that projecting how good a player will be is difficult, after watching this dual both averaged 18 PPG during a grueling playoff run, it would be difficult to justify trading either one of them to acquire Leonard. Throw in other assets like first round picks and a deal for Leonard looks lopsided.

These two eggs were certainly Golden.

cowens/oldschool wrote:KJ I can’t think of one team that has better wings than us period....

Exactly. We are built right now to beat Golden State but no one seems to believe it yet.


KJ

cowens/oldschool wrote:KJ I can’t think of one team that has better wings than us period....

Victoria's Secret's angels.

k_j_88 wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:KJ I can’t think of one team that has better wings than us period....

Exactly. We are built right now to beat Golden State but no one seems to believe it yet.


KJ

maybe but until we do it, its just talk.

I think we may find out next season, if we can.

k_j_88 wrote:

Ktronic1 wrote:

k_j_88 wrote:

fierce wrote:mrkleen09

I really, really, want to beat GSW.

Kevin Durant really destroyed the NBA Finals when he chose GSW instead of the Celtics back in 2016.

As currently constructed, this Celts team is good enough to reach the Finals next year.
But even with Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum, and Horford, it will not be enough.
If you guys watched the NBA Finals the last 2 years, it's not that the Cavs are bad, GSW is that good!

The Cavs needed Kyrie to score 40 points just to win one game in the 2017 NBA Finals.

This year the Cavs couldn't even win one game.
Lebron score 50 points and the Cavs still lose?

Only way we beat GSW is if we match or better their star power.

Patience is a virtue, and patience is something that will serve the Celtics well.

We don't need to make any major upgrades. And if we are going to make a move, it had better been for a legitimate, game-changing big. If we have Hayward, Tatum, and Brown, all relatively young, then we don't need another wing. Why trade one wing for another? It doesn't make sense. If we went after Kawhi, we'd have to give up one of our max contract players anyway. Kawhi makes $20M, $8M more than Brown and Tatum combined. Honestly, I'd rather roll with the guys we've got who are already better than Kawhi was when he came into the league.

Why should we risk our cap flexibility and young talent for someone we don't know is healthy or not? The gap between the Warriors and Celtics is not as big as you're making it out to be. Have some faith in this team.


KJ

Can’t argue that. The only point I want to stress is this theory I keep hearing about Brown and Tatum already being better than Kawhi when he came into the league. Though that may be true, it doesn’t mean much.
I’m hoping that they will but It certainly Doesn’t mean that either will END UP better than Kawhi.

I have no doubt that they will be two of the best wings in the league in the foreseeable future. Tatum was taking over games as a rookie. Jaylen improved tremendously between year 1 and 2. I love Kawhi's game but these two we've got are for real. I think they will be better than he is. How many teams in the league have two young wings better than ours? None.


KJ

I hope so. But None of us know what they’re ceiling will end up being.

As Brown and Tatum continue to develop and we have more evidence of how good they may be we must consider how they compare to a guy like Leonard in terms of value.

It is interesting to note that Leonard became an elite scorer in year 5 of his career.  He has been an excellent defender and rebounder but a very average assist guy.  

His rebounding numbers are however on the decline 7.2, 6.8, 5.8, 4.7.  His injury history shows me a flashing yellow light at the very least meaning proceed with caution.  He turns 27 this month.

While no one can guarantee that either Brown or Tatum will be as productive in 3 to 4 years I would not bet against it.  There is no doubt in my mind that Boston is all set at the wing position for the foreseeable future and at their current rookie level salaries, their individual value is significantly higher than Leonard.  

Reports are that Leonard wants out of SA because his was not happy with the way his treatment was handled.  If he remained injured throughout the year and really could not help then you have to have questions about his health moving forward.  If you are trading for him you have to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is healthy and can return to his 2016-17 production level.  If he is healthy you have to ask yourself why he did not play?  He is under contract and is obligated to play.  Otherwise the issue of character comes into view.

The best thing about Leonard is that he wants to go to LA.  That really makes my argument moot in terms of trading for him but it should still serve as a strong argument against trading either one of them.  For example, moving Brown to move up in the draft.  

There are no players in this draft that I would trade Brown or Tatum for.  No one!

Leonard wanting to go the Lakers mitigates some of San Antonio's negotiating ability. Teams will be wary of making a trade for a player who may not commit.

Let's all just think for a second: if the Celtics trade for Leonard at the cost of giving up a young star and Leonard doesn't re-up in Boston, we'll look incredibly foolish.


KJ

If Kawhi goes to the Lakers for a package, Spurs want nothing to do with Lonzo Ball. Or his father. Not surprised.

https://www.lakersnation.com/nba-trade-rumors-spurs-zero-interest-lonzo-ball-lakers-offer-kawhi-leonard-trade/2018/06/17/

steve3344 wrote:If Kawhi goes to the Lakers for a package, Spurs want nothing to do with Lonzo Ball. Or his father. Not surprised.  

https://www.lakersnation.com/nba-trade-rumors-spurs-zero-interest-lonzo-ball-lakers-offer-kawhi-leonard-trade/2018/06/17/

I am not surprised. I imagine Magic and the Lakers are stuck with Lonzo, his father and the drama until Lonzo's rookie deal is over.

There is no team that will take Lonzo, IMO. This will be considered Magic's first bone-headed decision as GM. I'm sure there will be more.

gyso