No One's Scared Of Ben Simmons

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/no-ones-scared-ben-simmons-140500792.html



No One's Scared Of Ben Simmons




 
Barry Petchesky, Deadspin
2 hours 16 minutes ago



Kyrie Irving caught fire to help the Celtics pull away from the 76ers for a 121-114 overtime win in a statement battle between two of the let’s say three best teams in the East. But it was his counterpoint who celebrated Christmas Day with a career high, even if it was a total accident and still sort of a bummer.

Yes, Ben Simmons’s 22-footer—a bailout turnaround jumper with the shot clock running down, but a midrange jumper nonetheless!—was the longest made shot of his NBA career.




It tops Simmons’s old career high of 20 feet, made against Miami in April, and easily beats his previous season high of 14 feet. He can shoot from distance, as we know. He just doesn’t, not in games. It’s a real weakness in an otherwise excellent game, and makes him and the Sixers that much more vulnerable just for the fact that everyone knows it’s a thing.

Simmons was good in the Christmas loss, scoring 11 points on 4-of-9 shooting, plus 14 boards and eight assists, though with four turnovers. But Philadephia’s offense ultimately runs through Joel Embiid and Jimmy Butler, and both men’s jobs are made that much harder by opponents knowing they don’t have to worry about Simmons’s jumper.

Consistently throughout the game, the Celtics pulled a defender off Simmons and double-teamed elsewhere, particularly on Butler in the pick-and-roll or Embiid in the post. Both men still got their points, but they also combined for 10 turnovers—six by Embiid, who as the game went on found himself with the ball less and less. He wasn’t happy about that.

“I felt like I could have done more,” Embiid said. “I didn’t get the ball. The ball didn’t find me in the fourth quarter and overtime, so, in those situations, I’ve got to show up, but I also have to be put in the right situations to be able to help this team. I felt like I wasn’t in the right situation. We lost. I put this heavily on me because I know I could have done more, and the more I was playing, all day they couldn’t guard me, and they were playing a lot of 1-on-1, double-teaming on the first dribbles, but I have to find a way to adjust through that and just be myself.”

This is potentially to be read as criticism of Brett Brown’s gameplan, but it’s also a function of the realities of the personnel on the court, and when a team finds itself playing basically 4-on-5 on offense because your opponent doesn’t fear your point guard’s shot, eventually you’re going to stop passing into that double-team down low.

I’m not sure what the Sixers do about this, beyond pushing Simmons to develop a three. He’s in just his second season, so it’s not impossible. But until then, there’s a clear blueprint for beating them, and it’s one that the East’s other best teams are well-equipped to follow.

Alternately, the Sixers might be soon getting back another guard who can’t shoot.



bob
MY NOTE:  Saying nobody is afraid of Ben Simmons because he can't shoot is like saying nobody was afraid of Magic Johnson because he wasn't a shooter neither.  When your point guard towers over everybody who guards him that is an advantage if the rest of the team is moving. 6'10" point guard with his court vision, ball handling skills and rebounding doesn't need to be a dead-eye shooter to be effective.



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bobheckler wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/no-ones-scared-ben-simmons-140500792.html



No One's Scared Of Ben Simmons




 
Barry Petchesky, Deadspin
2 hours 16 minutes ago



Kyrie Irving caught fire to help the Celtics pull away from the 76ers for a 121-114 overtime win in a statement battle between two of the let’s say three best teams in the East. But it was his counterpoint who celebrated Christmas Day with a career high, even if it was a total accident and still sort of a bummer.

Yes, Ben Simmons’s 22-footer—a bailout turnaround jumper with the shot clock running down, but a midrange jumper nonetheless!—was the longest made shot of his NBA career.




It tops Simmons’s old career high of 20 feet, made against Miami in April, and easily beats his previous season high of 14 feet. He can shoot from distance, as we know. He just doesn’t, not in games. It’s a real weakness in an otherwise excellent game, and makes him and the Sixers that much more vulnerable just for the fact that everyone knows it’s a thing.

Simmons was good in the Christmas loss, scoring 11 points on 4-of-9 shooting, plus 14 boards and eight assists, though with four turnovers. But Philadephia’s offense ultimately runs through Joel Embiid and Jimmy Butler, and both men’s jobs are made that much harder by opponents knowing they don’t have to worry about Simmons’s jumper.

Consistently throughout the game, the Celtics pulled a defender off Simmons and double-teamed elsewhere, particularly on Butler in the pick-and-roll or Embiid in the post. Both men still got their points, but they also combined for 10 turnovers—six by Embiid, who as the game went on found himself with the ball less and less. He wasn’t happy about that.

“I felt like I could have done more,” Embiid said. “I didn’t get the ball. The ball didn’t find me in the fourth quarter and overtime, so, in those situations, I’ve got to show up, but I also have to be put in the right situations to be able to help this team. I felt like I wasn’t in the right situation. We lost. I put this heavily on me because I know I could have done more, and the more I was playing, all day they couldn’t guard me, and they were playing a lot of 1-on-1, double-teaming on the first dribbles, but I have to find a way to adjust through that and just be myself.”

This is potentially to be read as criticism of Brett Brown’s gameplan, but it’s also a function of the realities of the personnel on the court, and when a team finds itself playing basically 4-on-5 on offense because your opponent doesn’t fear your point guard’s shot, eventually you’re going to stop passing into that double-team down low.

I’m not sure what the Sixers do about this, beyond pushing Simmons to develop a three. He’s in just his second season, so it’s not impossible. But until then, there’s a clear blueprint for beating them, and it’s one that the East’s other best teams are well-equipped to follow.

Alternately, the Sixers might be soon getting back another guard who can’t shoot.



bob
MY NOTE:  Saying nobody is afraid of Ben Simmons because he can't shoot is like saying nobody was afraid of Magic Johnson because he wasn't a shooter neither.  When your point guard towers over everybody who guards him that is an advantage if the rest of the team is moving.  6'10" point guard with his court vision, ball handling skills and rebounding doesn't need to be a dead-eye shooter to be effective.



.

Thank you bob for your objectivity.

swish

Bob,

You are quite correct with your thoughts of this guy being a high level player even if he cannot shoot from deep. Just imagine how good he would be if he had some real range?

I see him play on a regular basis living in DE, but I have been very much confused by his lack of improvement on his shooting. He is a big strong kid with tons of athletic ability, yet still cannot shoot from distance to the point that I have wondered if the 'ers have coached him well.

wideclyde wrote:Bob,

You are quite correct with your thoughts of this guy being a high level player even if he cannot shoot from deep.  Just imagine how good he would be if he had some real range?

I see him play on a regular basis living in DE, but I have been very much confused by his lack of improvement on his shooting.  He is a big strong kid with tons of athletic ability, yet still cannot shoot from distance to the point that I have wondered if the 'ers have coached him well.

  Perhaps he's one of the smarter ones that understands his current weaknesses and chooses to avoid throwing up 3 point bricks and thus creating needless tunrovers - in favor of having one of the top 15-20 EFG'S in the league to go along with his point guard talent as an assist producer and unpointguard like talent as a rebounder. He plays the point but his numbers are much more consistant with those of a front court player.

 swish

The Sixers are still flawed in much the same way as they were before. They still lack consistent perimeter shooting at 2 of the 5 positions with Embiid shooting sub-Smart and Simmons not shooting. Unlike Covington, Chandler doesn’t seem to get consistent opportunities. Offensively, he’s fine as a complementary player but isn’t the threat to hurt us as a consistent option. If they figure out how to get him more consistent scoring opportunities, this is one of the places they could improve their team’s capability. As it is now, trading Saric may have actually helped us as there isn’t a matchup where our wings will get outmuscled. The one playoff loss came from Saric getting easy scores and drawing fouls from Tatum and Brown. The Cs match up much better defensively with him not there, guarding Butler and Wilson instead of Covington and Saric. Simmons, Butler, and Embiid also seem to be trying to attack the same lanes. The lack of spacing and easier defends make cheating and switching on D much easier. With Baynes defensively on Embiid, Sixers would have much more difficulty. It would have been interesting if we would have needed personnel adjustments defending Simmons and Embiid. I’d have liked to see what Semi and Williams could have done against those 2.

I was relieved when we traded Covington and especially Saric. Philly lost two guys who could hurt the Celts and gained but one.

Ben Simmons is not the problem anymore than Rajon Rondo was the problem.  They just need to be surrounded by certain types of players, specifically, shooters.

Philly gave up Robert Covington, an excellent 3pt catch-and-shooter (39% from 3 this year in Philly before being traded) and defender, and Dario Saric (35% from 3 career, but does many other things).  Both were very happy to move without the ball and pop out to the arc and shoot the ball when it came to them.  In exchange they got Jimmy Butler, a very much on-the-ball offensive player.  He wants the ball in his hands and, when he has the ball in his hands, that negates Ben Simmons' greatest asset.  It's the opposite of addition through subtraction, it's subtraction through adding a ball-hog.  Butler is taking 14.1fgas/game in Philly, 3.3 3pt fgas/game.  Before they left Philly (can't count what they are doing in Minny because Thibs has them running under a different system) Saric was taking 10.2fgas/game and 5.4 3pt fgas/game in 30mpg and Covington was taking 9.0fgas/game and 5.9 3pt fgas/game in 34mpg.

Player...........mpg...........fgas/game........3pt fgas/game
Butler---------32-----------14.1--------------3.3
Saric----------30-----------10.2--------------5.4
Covington----34------------9.0---------------5.9


So, Philly gave up 64 player minutes and replaced them with 32.  They gave up 20fgas/game and replaced them with 14.  They gave up 11.3 3pt fgas/game and replaced them with 3.3.  That leaves them with 32 minutes/game that have to be played by bench.  Which Philly bench player can play those kind of minutes and be effective?  Wilson Chandler but is he more effective than Covington or Saric?  Both those players, when they are hot, can win games for you.  Chandler?  We saw the Philly bench in our game the other day.  That is their weakness now.  They need a weak bench to take 6 more fgas/game and almost 8 3pt fgas/game just to fill the holes left by Covington and Saric.  How do you replace 8 3pt fgas/game with only 6 fgas? What this tells me is that the Philly offense is less 3pt-oriented. To some that's a good thing. In today's NBA it's all about the arc (yuck). Take away offense at the arc and you take away opportunities in the blocks. Just look at Detroit when they think they can just ride Andre Drummond like a horse. Their offense gets gummed up as defenses collapse. You have to hit your perimeter shots if you want to get good inside shots and Saric worked the boards well.

But, perhaps more importantly, is the change in how the offense has to work now that Ben Simmons doesn't have those two catch-and-shooters to feed off his penetrations.  Unfortunately I don't know what their offense was scoring, what their MOV was, when that trade happened but I seem to remember their offense was pretty good and their defense was pretty good too.  As of today they have the 6th best offense but the 23rd defense.  

We have the 12th offense and the 4th defense.  Our MOV +/- is 6.6.  That ties us with Toronto for 2nd.  Only Milwaukee is better, with 8.6 and we'll see what happens to that if Giannis twists an ankle.


bob


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So glad they moved Saric.

bobheckler wrote:
MY NOTE:  Saying nobody is afraid of Ben Simmons because he can't shoot is like saying nobody was afraid of Magic Johnson because he wasn't a shooter neither.  When your point guard towers over everybody who guards him that is an advantage if the rest of the team is moving.  6'10" point guard with his court vision, ball handling skills and rebounding doesn't need to be a dead-eye shooter to be effective.

.

Bob - Magic Johnson? You just compared Ben Simmons to Magic Johnson? Come on man. Ben isnt even on the same planet at Ervin.

Every time I have seen Ben Simmons in a big game, he disappears down the stretch. There is no day, this week or in any other week of any other year, any time ever that he will be a better player than Jayson Tatum or anyone else from last years NBA All Rookie Team

Not a bad player. Not a #1 pick.

Mr Kleen...what are your real feelings about Ben Simmons?

mrkleen09 wrote:

bobheckler wrote:
MY NOTE:  Saying nobody is afraid of Ben Simmons because he can't shoot is like saying nobody was afraid of Magic Johnson because he wasn't a shooter neither.  When your point guard towers over everybody who guards him that is an advantage if the rest of the team is moving.  6'10" point guard with his court vision, ball handling skills and rebounding doesn't need to be a dead-eye shooter to be effective.

.

Bob - Magic Johnson?  You just compared Ben Simmons to Magic Johnson?  Come on man.  Ben isnt even on the same planet at Ervin.

Every time I have seen Ben Simmons in a big game, he disappears down the stretch.  There is no day, this week or in any other week of any other year, any time ever that he will be a better player than Jayson Tatum or anyone else from last years NBA All Rookie Team

Not a bad player.  Not a #1 pick.

Is that an opinion or should I take it as a prediction "written in stone" ?

swish

swish wrote:

mrkleen09 wrote:

bobheckler wrote:
MY NOTE:  Saying nobody is afraid of Ben Simmons because he can't shoot is like saying nobody was afraid of Magic Johnson because he wasn't a shooter neither.  When your point guard towers over everybody who guards him that is an advantage if the rest of the team is moving.  6'10" point guard with his court vision, ball handling skills and rebounding doesn't need to be a dead-eye shooter to be effective.

.

Bob - Magic Johnson?  You just compared Ben Simmons to Magic Johnson?  Come on man.  Ben isnt even on the same planet at Ervin.

Every time I have seen Ben Simmons in a big game, he disappears down the stretch.  There is no day, this week or in any other week of any other year, any time ever that he will be a better player than Jayson Tatum or anyone else from last years NBA All Rookie Team

Not a bad player.  Not a #1 pick.

 Is that an opinion or should I take it as a prediction "written in stone" ?

  swish

Does it matter?

Ben Simmons couldn’t come close to Magic Johnson’s jock strap

I am not a Ben Simmons fan. Seems like a nice enough guy but the media wanted Philadelphia to have a contending team so badly, that they overhyped the kid

Maybe he will be late Jason KIDD and eventually learn to shoot but until then I can’t see him as a star

He sure doesn’t effect winning like Magic did at similar ages.

cowens/oldschool wrote:He sure doesn’t effect winning like Magic did at similar ages.

Cow,

He also doesn't have Kareem and Worthy. Embiid is awesome but is he pure money like a sky hook?


bob


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Ben Simmons limits the Sixers and kills their spacing. Sure he's a good player, but we continue to beat them with the help of his unwillingness to even try to shoot the ball from more than 10 feet. The Magic comparisons are ludicrous. Let's see this guy win something.

jrleftfoot wrote:Ben Simmons limits the Sixers and kills their spacing. Sure he's a good player, but we continue to beat them with the help of his unwillingness to even try to shoot the ball from more than 10 feet. The Magic comparisons are ludicrous. Let's see this guy win something.

I have to disagree with you jrleftfoot. While it's impossible to compare the two on the basis of a full career (that would be pure speculation in regards to Simmons final numbers) it is possible to view the similarites at age 22. I think that there numbers are remarkably similar.
Both listed as point guards - both 6'9" or 6'10"
For stat line comparison see below link.

http://bkref.com/tiny/xtfnQ

swish

bobheckler wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:He sure doesn’t effect winning like Magic did at similar ages.

Cow,

He also doesn't have Kareem and Worthy.  Embiid is awesome but is he pure money like a sky hook?


bob


.

Wrong again bob, Magic already won twice without Worthy....Worthy’s first year was 83.

Anyone who saw Magic play and I hated him, knows how much better he was than Simmons. Ridiculous comparison, Magic was so much more patient in the halfcourt than Simmons, if Kareem was covered he knew automatically where to go with the ball in an instant to someone else or just take it himself in a much better way than Simmons. His handle and vision were so much better than....really no comparison.

cowens/oldschool wrote:Anyone who saw Magic play and I hated him, knows how much better he was than Simmons. Ridiculous comparison, Magic was so much more patient in the halfcourt than Simmons, if Kareem was covered he knew automatically where to go with the ball in an instant to someone else or just take it himself in a much better way than Simmons. His handle and vision were so much better than....really no comparison.

All only an opinion as seen through your eye balls

swish

cowens/oldschool wrote:

bobheckler wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:He sure doesn’t effect winning like Magic did at similar ages.

Cow,

He also doesn't have Kareem and Worthy.  Embiid is awesome but is he pure money like a sky hook?


bob


.

Wrong again bob, Magic already won twice without Worthy....Worthy’s first year was 83.

But he did have 3 outstanding scorers worth him in Jabbar, Nixon and Wilkes.

swish

swish wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:

bobheckler wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:He sure doesn’t effect winning like Magic did at similar ages.

Cow,

He also doesn't have Kareem and Worthy.  Embiid is awesome but is he pure money like a sky hook?


bob


.

Wrong again bob, Magic already won twice without Worthy....Worthy’s first year was 83.

 But he did have 3 outstanding scorers worth him in Jabbar, Nixon and Wilkes.

 swish

Jabber at that stage wasn’t much of a banger or rebounder, Embid is 24, imagine how much better they would have been with a young Kareem playing with Magic?

swish wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:Anyone who saw Magic play and I hated him, knows how much better he was than Simmons. Ridiculous comparison, Magic was so much more patient in the halfcourt than Simmons, if Kareem was covered he knew automatically where to go with the ball in an instant to someone else or just take it himself in a much better way than Simmons. His handle and vision were so much better than....really no comparison.

  All only an opinion as seen through your eye balls

 swish

Backed by ultimate stats....winning

cowens/oldschool wrote:

swish wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:

bobheckler wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:He sure doesn’t effect winning like Magic did at similar ages.

Cow,

He also doesn't have Kareem and Worthy.  Embiid is awesome but is he pure money like a sky hook?


bob


.

Wrong again bob, Magic already won twice without Worthy....Worthy’s first year was 83.

 But he did have 3 outstanding scorers worth him in Jabbar, Nixon and Wilkes.

 swish

Jabber at that stage wasn’t much of a banger or rebounder, Embid is 24, imagine how much better they would have been with a young Kareem playing with Magic?

The Lakers of the 80's were all about offense - putting up the points was their big plus.

swish