Jayson Tatum ‘might be Carmelo (Anthony)’, says Western Conference executive (report)

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2019/03/jayson-tatum-might-be-carmelo-anthony-says-western-conference-executive-report.html



Jayson Tatum ‘might be Carmelo (Anthony)’, says Western Conference executive (report)



Today 8:38 PM





Boston Celtics forward Jayson Tatum (0) loses the ball in front of Oklahoma City Thunder guard Andre Roberson (21) and forward Carmelo Anthony, right, in the first quarter of an NBA basketball game in Oklahoma City, Friday, Nov. 3, 2017. (AP Photo/Sue Ogrocki)




By John Karalis | JKaralis@masslive.com



Jayson Tatum is one of a few up-and-coming NBA stars with tantalizing potential. He’s a second-year guy who, in a short time, has shown an ability to score in bunches and from all areas on the floor. He also has shown the ability to play pretty good defense.

He isn’t quite consistent yet, though. There are days where he feels absent on either end of the floor, or both. That’s part of being a 21-year-old second-year player in the NBA. The Boston Celtics situation hasn’t helped much in that regard, with guys going through a season-long struggle to find themselves and their roles on this team.


That might explain why, in an ESPN poll of NBA executives about four of the league’s most exciting second-year players, the opinions of Tatum vary so much.

Using a points scale, executives were asked which second-year stud they would pick. Tatum was third of the four sophomores, behind Ben Simmons of the Philadelphia 76ers and Donovan Mitchell of the Utah Jazz, and ahead of De’Aaron Fox of the Sacramento Kings.

While one lauded Tatum for being well-rounded and another noted how good he was at position lacking high-end talent, others were less than complimentary.

"Tatum might be Carmelo [Anthony]," one West executive said. "He needs the ball in his hands."

“Tatum is a complementary player,” an East executive said.

The comparison to Anthony is probably the product of Tatum’s propensity to isolate, hold the ball, and take mid-range shots. There is certainly some element of Anthony’s notorious slow-down game in Tatum.

However, Carmelo Anthony spent the bulk of his career with a usage rate (the percentage of plays he finished with a shot, assist, or turnover. This is essentially measure of how many times a player ends an offensive possession) somewhere around 30 percent or higher. Tatum’s is up to 22 this season, higher than last year’s but a lot lower than Anthony’s. In fact, only once in Anthony’s career did he have one lower than 22, and that’s this current season.


Anthony’s name was definitely used as a pejorative here, but it also serves as a warning for Tatum to keep evolving his game. Comparisons to Anthony right now are not pretty, and Tatum never wants to develop into a ball-stopping two-point specialist. Even if Anthony is a future Hall of Fame scorer, the style of play hasn’t helped his teams do much in the playoffs. As good as he was, Anthony never could lead his teams very far.

Tatum needs to continue to focus on drives and ball movement to evolve as a player. He can rely on his mid-range and craftiness as shots he can turn to when he absolutely needs to get a shot off in a clutch situation, but he needs to continue his development as a well-rounded scorer, defender, and eventually, play-maker to help his teammates score off the defensive attention he draws.



bob


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This one seems like a stretch. It is surprising how someone in such a high position could have such a poorly informed and superficial take.

Anthony is also a first ballot hall of famer when he is done. Could do a lot worse than that.

mrkleen09 wrote:Anthony is also a first ballot hall of famer when he is done.  Could do a lot worse than that.

Disagree, great scorer, never worked on game/body enough, same age as Chris Paul and Lebron, how come those guys are still main cogs and he’s out of the league?

I am not a big fan of Carmello, but to suggest being as good as him is a negative if foolish.  He is easily one of the 10 best players of his generation.

-Career 24 / 7
-10 seasons in top 20 in scoring in NBA
-10 time all star
-22nd All Time Scoring
-98% HOF Probability

cowens/oldschool wrote:

mrkleen09 wrote:Anthony is also a first ballot hall of famer when he is done.  Could do a lot worse than that.

Disagree, great scorer, never worked on game/body enough, same age as Chris Paul and Lebron, how come those guys are still main cogs and he’s out of the league?

The nba has changed a lot as we know over the last few years.
There’s not a big need for mid range scorers who don’t shoot 3 pointers.
Carmelo’s game doesn’t fit the current nba.
Carmelo, LeBron and Chris Paul all now struggle defensively because of their age.
Chris Paul is averaging a career low in shooting percentage and scoring and those numbers will probably continue to decrease due to his age.
As for Tatum, it is an interesting opinion from an nba executive. I wonder if many others feel the same way.
I don’t know about the Carmelo Anthony comparison but it does seem like the overall opinion about Tatum is less than it was a year ago. He went from untouchable and a potential superstar to one who has a lot of potential but has not improved over the last 12 months.

Tatum just turned 21 a few months ago.

I've never been a fan of 'Melo, too much of a conscience-less ME-baller for my taste, the Anti-Celtic, but to say he wasn't a good player in his day is unfair. Who did Carmelo ever play with that was good enough to take the strain off his shoulders? If Ray Allen never came to Boston he'd still have gone into the HOF but might be talked about now by GMs as if he's just a 2-dimensional cutout. It is amazing, given his career, Carmelo Anthony is now being used as a pejorative. "well, he's just another Carmelo Anthony" is now an insult and rundown. How fast and far the mighty fall...

In a way, it's a good thing, perhaps. Makes you focus on winning and less on individual stats.


bob



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I'll just say he's more like Bernard King and count our blessings. As Mr. Kleen says he's 21 and has his whole future ahead of him including what he becomes on the court.

I'm not sure where this comparison comes from, but it's off by a good margin.

First off, yes, Anthony is a future HOF member. The big knock on Carmelo, however, has always been his defense. Still, he's done more than enough, overall, that I believe there is no question; HOF for certain. Does HOF make you one of the greats of your era. I don't need to answer my own question there.

With Tatum, we also have to consider all the silly whining that he's sliding backwards into a should-have-been later pick. Who are these anonymous execs anyway?

For those that enjoy checking video comparisons, or better still those who are old enough and have a good memory, maybe go back to 2nd year Anthony on defense vs 2nd year Tatum. Tatum should be your winner in the D comparison.

Also, look at the surrounding cast, on offense, of both. Tatum is incredible for any 2nd year player, especially given his age. Regression from year 1? I'm not so sure. How about a different surrounding group on the floor for Tatum vs year 1? How about an altered approach, and not just for Tatum?

For those crying big, bloody tears that Tatum is somehow less than last year, I don't see any evidence of an erosion or setback in skills for Tatum. I do see a different offensive group, and altered play for all of last year's starters vs this year's group.

In a way, the article and source make me laugh. It is, after all, being reported through MassLive. Just another case of fan/media over-expectations leading to a full blown, pants-pissing, tantrum? I think so. After all, last year at this time sources were reporting Tatum was going to be inducted into the HOF before retirement, guaranteed. Hear that sound? It's just feet hitting the sidewalk after another bandwagon jumper touched down. Let's heap it on Tatum today. We can blame Rozier or Horford tomorrow. I think they loaded up on Stevens yesterday.

So, forget my rambling on and off the exact topic of the article. Compare Tatum to a future HOF member? OK. But Tatum may develop better on the D end. Not bad. I'll take that comparison.

EDIT: Went back and re-read my post. Really did ramble and vent. The uninformed critics must be getting to me this year. Letting it stand, though, so people know what I'm like when off the meds.

It’s okay Deano, I bring up certain things way too much many times too...

Even though Anthony was a good player, I most certainly hope that Tatum does not take on his ball hogging mentality or any of the other negatives that Anthony exhibited.

Tatum is a CELTIC and Celtics are not supposed to play selfish basketball. This thought is boldly written in green in the Boston athletic handbook. Let me search around to see if I can find exactly what page it is on.

If Tatum turns into Anthony, he will have to go from my perspective.

I can see this comparison although I really do not care about what Melo did or did not do

What may be of interest to Celtics fans is the numbers as it relates to isolation basketball on our team

Jason Tatum is not very good as an ISO player on this team even though his frequency of going ISO is second on the team to Kyrie Irving.

Kyrie goes ISO 13.7% of the time, Jason goes ISO 13.3% of the time.

Results:   Kyrie scores 45% of the time on ISO plays and Jason scores only 29.5%

Actual FG percentages are 44.9% for Irving and 32% for Tatum.

Tatum gets a pass for his poor decision making because coach Stevens chooses to overlook his bad play.  Bottom line...as good and as talented a player that he is, Jason does not give up the rock enough he continues to take bad shots and there is very little improvement to point to year over year.

https://stats.nba.com/players/isolation/?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=-1

Patience.

Dboss do you know Jaylen’s % when he goes iso?

Seems like Tatum has regressed a bit. Too eager on iso, but are teams defending him differently this year?


KJ

cowens/oldschool wrote:Dboss do you know Jaylen’s % when he goes iso?

See the link in my post above. he is worse than Jason. If I recall jaylen in shooting around 30% on ISO plays.

Check this out, the 3 best ISO players are Kyrie, AH and Marcus Smart

k_j_88 wrote:Seems like Tatum has regressed a bit. Too eager on iso, but are teams defending him differently this year?


KJ

I believe he is being defended better. He was bright, shiny and new last season. No one knew what to expect.

Now the other teams have had loads of video to help plan for his strengths and weaknesses. Now he has to adapt to the changes, but there are not many chances to practice during the long season.

Perhaps over the summer he will get a chance to see what the other teams are doing to him in games.

dboss wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:Dboss do you know Jaylen’s % when he goes iso?

See the link in my post above.  he is worse than Jason.  If I recall jaylen in shooting around 30% on ISO plays.

Check this out, the 3 best ISO players are Kyrie, AH and Marcus Smart

Really, Smart? I must be blind....

The so-called "Rookie Wall" hits because college players play maybe 45 games/season while NBA players play double that, and NBA players are bigger, heavier, faster and stronger than the college kids they played against the previous year.  Furthermore, in the case of the more talented rookies like Tatum, they are college one-and-doners because the NBA is drafting earlier and earlier. So not only were they only playing college players the previous year, the overwhelming percentage of whom have no shot at making an NBA roster, the year before that they were playing High School players, most of whom had no shot at making a Division 1 roster. So rookies' bodies are being asked to do something well beyond their experience.  Tatum hit the wall last year, but pushed through it and had a great playoffs.

The so-called "Sophomore Jinx" happens because they get scouted and they can't get away with all the stuff they pulled in their rookie year.  Tatum is dealing with this now.  The Sophomore Jinx is harder to push past because it's not just a case of sleeping more or taking games off for "load management".  It's about every time he steps on the court opposing coaches and players have a better idea of his preferences and limitations and they are overplaying him on his preferences and trying to channel him towards his limitations and that type of "wall" needs a summer of hard work to climb over.


bob


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BobH,

I forgot that there was a name for it, but the "Sophomore Jinx" was more or less what I was talking about.

Thanks for bring it to light.

gyso (AKA Gravity Man)

Bird and Pierce had no sophomore jinx, either did Jaylen....

Tatum needs to get stronger, a lot stronger, right now he’s good for a quarter or a half. He’s a talent, highly skilled, can look great, but a lot of players had a great rookie year, then slowly regressed and are journeymen now, trying to just stay in the league. Tatum has a lot to prove this playoff, is he a flash in the pan or can he step up in the playoffs like the real greats...???

What if we find out after the season is over that Tatum played most of the season with an injury? That is my guess as to why he has dropped off so significantly. He didn't seem to be intimidated in any way in his first season.

His drop off last season after a great start (it happened late December) was because of a injured pinkie. Once his pinkie was healed, he came back to form, although he never equaled his run as best 3-point shooter in the league.

This season, it could be his shoulder. Who knows? I'll bet the team management does. They ain't saying.

gyso

gyso wrote:What if we find out after the season is over that Tatum played most of the season with an injury?  That is my guess as to why he has dropped off so significantly.  He didn't seem to be intimidated in any way in his first season.

His drop off last season after a great start (it happened late December) was because of a injured pinkie.  Once his pinkie was healed, he came back to form, although he never equaled his run as best 3-point shooter in the league.

This season, it could be his shoulder.  Who knows?  I'll bet the team management does.  They ain't saying.

gyso

Good point I thought of that too, he missed a game with a bad shoulder, baffling seeing him play like this....one thing is for sure, he is strictly a 3, too many average 4’s can push him around too easily....