Post Game Thread game # 4- Celtics Tie Series Beat LA 96-89 6/10/2010

[dboss]

This was absolutely the best game of the entire playoffs with respect to the level of intensity, passion, grit and determination displayed by the entire Boston Celtics team. The energy was simply overwhelming as LA could not come close to matching the effort displayed by the Celtics.

Make no doubt about it, this was the 2nd must win game of the series where Boston simply could ill afford to lose.

The biggest concern for the Lakers is the health of center Andrew Bynum who was a non factor in 12 minutes of play. Without his length and size in the post rebounding, scoring and most importantly blocking shots, the Lakers could be faced with the prospect of relying on Paul Gasol to do all of the dirty work in the pits. Gasol has proven to be a tremendous player, skilled in every area of the game but even his abilities will be tested if he is forced to play against the Celtics front line including Davis and Wallace.

It was a big gamble for Phil Jackson to play Bynun because game 4 was not as important to LA as it was to Boston.

Last night the Zen master was outcoached by Doc Rivers who surprised even me with his down to the wire deviation in the rotations that were on the floor together. It was sheer genius!

Once again the Celtics are just unpredictable. You just never know who will lead them to victory. Last night it was Big Baby Davis and his new sidekick Nat Robinson who put on a display of intense basketball that stunned the Lakers and propelled Boston to the game # 4 victory.

The Celtics continue to miss wide open shots and layup opportunities yet as we have concluded, this game is all about the defense. Defense won this game and defense will win the series for one team or the other.

The pattern however is clear and I might add indicative of what I expected to see as the series matured. The Lakers scoring is now in an undeniable downward spiral (102, 94, 91, 89) as Boston has systematically played better team defense against LA and have force LA into playing a rough and tumble game that does not suit their skill level. The Lakers are no chumps and they can play physical however that is not the way they have won all year.

That my friend is the signature of the Boston Celtics imposing their will on the Lakers, making them have to compete physically, slowly wearing them down, taking them to task.

The Celtics effort last night was a defensive team effort but they have yet to play a great offensive game where everything is clicking.
I have to commend both teams for the way they have handled themselves.

Bravo Celtics!

dboss

[Sam]

This is also an opportunity for me to commend the board for the way people have handled themselves to date in this "war." Yes, there have been the inevitable little spats, but it's been pretty smooth sailing compared with certain other message boards which shall go nameless.

Nice observation on the downward spiral of the Lakers' scores, dboss. I hadn't seen anyone else mention that fact. It does seem as though the Lakers' offense is struggling against the Celtics' defense a lot of the time, which would seem to make the effectiveness of the Lakers' DEFENSE a key pivotal aspect of the series.

And because defense requires more exertion than offense, the fatigue factor could become crucial. Ironically, the foul situations have given a lot of guys unexpected rests—but not necessarily at the times their coaches would have preferred.

Here's hoping the injuries on both sides mend as well as possible for Game 5.

Sam

[dboss]

Sam

Before the series I felt that Boston would impose their will on the lakers and do it by playing superior defense. The Celtic's struggles in this sereis are well documented but I also realize that they are capable of going off in game 5 becasue they are getting great looks (KG missed 4 straight wide open jumpers at the foul line circle last night) The Lakers cannot stop Boston from scoring and when Boston pushes and shares the basketball good things will happen...eventually.

Until the offense can carry more of the load or until the offense is a balance between the defense, the defense must show up every game.

The lakers simply do not have enough energy guys. Kobe can score but is still shooting poorly from the field, Odom has been a no show, the lakers bench have had a few good moments but not outstanding. Gasol has been great but without Bynum he becomes a ping ball target in the post and I fully expect the Celtics big man rotation to make his life miserable. Doc has outcoached Phil.

In sum the series may be tied 2-2 but Boston is clearly getting better as the sereis moves along. Game 5 should be a fun game to watch.

dboss

[tjmakz]

I wouldn't read anything into the decrease of points in the last two games as anything meaningful. It's purely stat cherry picking.
Against Phoenix LA averaged 126 points in the first two games at home and only 107.5 in the next two at Phoenix. That's a decrease of 18.5 ppg.
If anything, it shows that LA scores more at home, which is a good thing with possibly two more home games.

[tjmakz]

I guess you could say Boston is getting better because they have won 1 in a row. That is the 4th time we could have changed that statement this series.

[bobheckler]

I wouldn't read anything into the decrease of points in the last two games as anything meaningful. It's purely stat cherry picking.
Against Phoenix LA averaged 126 points in the first two games at home and only 107.5 in the next two at Phoenix. That's a decrease of 18.5 ppg.
If anything, it shows that LA scores more at home, which is a good thing with possibly two more home games.

TJ,

LA scored 102 in game 1 against the Celts but only 94 in game 2. So, while they have scored more at home, even game 2 in LA was a drop from game 1 in LA.

In fact, the 94 points they scored in game 2 in LA is the fewest points they've scored at home throughout the playoffs to-date. Just because their scoring in games 3 & 4 was even worse than that does not mean they're going to bounce back up to 102+ just because they're in LA.

Furthermore, comparing a team that has as good a road record and as good a defense as the Celtics against a no-defense team Cinderella team like the Suns is not a valid comparison. The Suns played a zone because they couldn't matchup.

bob

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[dboss]

If I was a laker fan (which I could never be) I would be very concerend that the so-called high powered offense was stumbling. i would be very concerend that our center was playing on a bum knee and most likely will end up on the bench before this series is over. I would be concerned that the great kobe bryant has a shooting percentage hovering around .40

The lakers are too dependent on Kobe and gasol. The lakers have no idea who will beat them. it could be any one of 6 different players for Boston.

Even the so-called zen master cannot scheme for that unknown.

This is the defining difference between the 2 teams. boston can d UP and the lakers cannot play that way over an entire series, it is simply not in their DNA.

TJ you have got to be feeling a little quezzy at this point.

dboss

[tjmakz]

Bob,

It is purely stat cherry picking.
Why did Boston give up 71 points to Orlando in game 3 and 113 in game 5?

How do you explain that LA's FG% in game 4 was HIGHER then in game 3, which was HIGHER then in game 2?

[bobheckler]

Once again, we've put ourselves in a position to win two-in-a-row. Now we just have to do it.

1. Pierce came out hot. After all the talk between Pierce about how Artest isn't slowing him down and Artest saying "Really? Well then I guess I'll have to start playing defense", Pierce got the job done.

2. Obviously, the stars of the game is the Celtic bench. Davis, Robinson and TA. They not only outplayed the Lakers bench badly, they held their own and even increased the lead against the Laker starters.

3. What a picture. Glen Davis stomping towards mid-court, baying at the moon and drooling like a St. Bernard guarding a stack of hamburgers, with mini-me Nate Robinson riding him like a jockey and howling right along with him. Too funny, just too freakin' funny.

4. TA was getting a lot of love from JVG. Really pointed out how well TA is guarding Kobe. I posted a link to an article in ESPN LA that talks about him too. When he's healthy and his head is screwed on straight he's a helluva defender.

5. Ray Allen put millions of dollars in his pocket after game 2. They're coming right back out again.

6. Odom looked smooth on offense. He was also completely manhandled by Davis on defense. Davis has got to be 60 pounds heavier than Odom and he was just blowing past him off the dribble. Like a man possessed (which would explain the excessive salivation), Davis was ripping rebounds away from Bryant and Odom and putting them back up and in. LA not only needs Odom to play well offensively, they need him to play well defensively.

7. We got the "good" Nate yesterday.

8. Sheed got a T for screaming and running around. 5'9" Nate Robinson got a T for "taunting" 6'10" Lamar Odom's stomach. Compare that to McHale's clotheslining of Rambis and Dave Cowen's running across the court to two-hand shiver Mike Newlin into the 4th row. These refs are confused about what real trouble is.

9. Man. Does Doc have Huevos Grandes or what? Pulling Rondo, Pierce and Garnett back to the bench and letting the subs continue to battle the Lakers starters. To those three's credit, not one of them bitched about getting pulled back. No superstar syndrome with them. And the bench made Doc look like a genius.

10. The series is hinging on Bynum's knee. He has three days to rest it, but then it's a minimum of 2 games in 3 days or 3 games in 4 days. That's a lot of pounding, especially considering that it didn't like having only two days off between Tuesday and Thursday.

Pivotal game coming up. Pivotal. So sayeth the Master of the Obvious.

bob

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[tjmakz]

Some people seem to have quite an imagination here.
Whichever team scores the most points wins.
Was Chicago too reliant on MJ and Pippen?
Why didn't you make these statements after game 3?
When it comes down to crunch time in this series, which it hasn't been yet, I am happy that LA has the two best players on the court.

[dboss]

TJ

you better hope that it does not come down to crunch time. The Celtics have the lakers playing just the way they want to.

The celtics don't have a Kobe Bryant to wet nurse their dreams they are a team where anyone can beat you.

I picked Boston in 6 and I'm sticking by that prediction. If crunch time is involved that makes it all the more exciting.

You may think that this is an evenly matched sereis but it is not. The lakers do not have the ability to play any better against Boston than they have. The Celtics have taken their best shot and are only 60-70% at capacity.

LA is in big trouble.

dboss (love to talk smack) lol

[tjmakz]

Why are Boston's big 4 shooting pretty horribly this series?
Could it be the Lakers defense?
Do they just need more practice?
Are they nervous? Missing lay ups and wide open shots?
I know KG can drain them in pre-game.

I say LA implements a hack-a rondo.
He does not look like he is mentally ready for the big show.
The Lakers are in his head.

[bobc33]

Shrek Davis had a warning for the youngsters regarding bodily fluids.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-nbafinals-celtics

Davis made it a three-possession game—Boston’s biggest lead to that
point
— when he dove to the floor to gather a loose ball, then followed the
play to
the other end and scored on a putback, drawing a foul in the process. He
stomped
away in exultation, letting loose a primal scream and a bit of drool,
while
Robinson jumped on his back.
“Let me tell you something right quick,” he said. “When you’re in the
moment, you’re in the moment. If I slobber, snot, spit, please excuse
me. Kids,
don’t do that. Have manners and things like that.”

[LACELTFAN]

Shrek Davis had a warning for the youngsters regarding bodily fluids.

[“Let me tell you something right quick,” he said. “When you’re in the
moment, you’re in the moment. If I slobber, snot, spit, please excuse
me. Kids,
don’t do that. Have manners and things like that.”

...and things like that.... Gotta love it.
That picture of baby reminds me of the wonderful Dicken's classic...."Great Expectorations..."

[Sam]

In each game of the series, the Celtics starters have played fewer minutes than the Lakers starters. But the differences were small, ranging from a collective three to nine minutes—until Game 4. For all intents and purposes, Odom was the de facto starter as Bynum played only 12 minutes and Odom 39. If Odom's minutes are substituted for Bynum's, the Lakers "starters" played a collective 39 minutes more than the Celtics starters. In other words, in Game 4, the four Lakers starters other than Bynum/Odom played exactly the same number of minutes (an average of 40 apiece) as the five Celtics starters did (an average of 32 apiece).

This is fairly graphic evidence of what Bynum means to the Lakers, how important the Celtics bench can be, and the care Doc is taking (with a little help from his friends in zebra suits) not to overtax his starters even in a "must" game like that one.

And, by the way, I noticed someone challenging the fact that the Celtics are still improving. Well, aside from the fact that they've been increasingly stingy in allowing points as the series has progressed...aside from the fact that Glen Davis is becoming increasingly consistent as a banger...aside from the fact that Tony Allen has also achieved more consistency in his defensive stopper role...aside from the fact that Rasheed Wallace (back permitting) is playing his best defense of the year (especially on Pau)...Bob Ryan said something interesting. "The Celtics have finally found a backup point guard." I don't expect a lot of improvement from the starters, as they and we know what they're capable of. They just have to play up to their potential more consistently on the court.

Sam

[cowens/oldschool]

and were not gonna miss so many lay ups and good looks in game 5,when was the last time Rondo missed so many lay ups?never and it won't happen again.

[tjmakz]

Why didn't anyone address the fact that LA's FG% is getting HIGHER?
Gotta love when people use stats to support an argument but have no comment when their stat twisting is exposed.

[Sam]

TJ,

Which "stat-twisting" did you expose?

Since when did field goal percentage win a series when the team in question doesn't also keep elevating (or at least maintaining) their number of field goal attempts? (Oh, and, by the way, the number of field goal attempts for the Celtics is increasing game by game.)

Lakers' yoyo field goal attempts:

Game 1 76
Game 2 71
Game 3 76
Game 4 71

Celtics' escalating field goal attempts:

Game 1 67
Game 2 71
Game 3 73
Game 4 83

Glad you brought up field goals.

And please tell me again exactly which "stat twisting" you debunked. If you research a stat because of some hypothesis you've developed, based on observation or reason or suspicion, and if that stat happens to support your hypothesis, you're in pretty good shape. If you just hunt around for stats that look good but don't have a basic underpinning of observation or reason or suspicion, you're operating from a position of weakness.

I quoted a stat on playing time because it seemed to me, based on observation, that (in somewhat of a turnaround for them at this point of the season) the Celtics seem to be the team whose starters are fresher at the end of games. So I looked it up. And the stat for Game 4 supports the conclusions I mentioned. So I posted it. Please tell me how that twists anything.

On the other hand, the stat you quoted isn't even true. In Game 1, the Lakers shot .487. They've never come close to that figure again. In Game 4, they shot .451. Please point out to me the improvement. Perhaps you're pointing to the huge "improvement" between Game 3 and Game 4 (way up from .447 to .451). Any time you try to make a big deal out of a change that doesn't exist if you round the data off, you're in trouble.

I believe you have a point in that the vast majority of basketball statistics are employed incorrectly, very often because they're quoted in a vacuum and lack the proper context. And, if you were to say that this series won't come down to who wins the statistics battle but who displays more heart, I'd back you 100%. But, if you're going to wade into the water, make sure you know what dangers lie beneath the surface.

Sam

[bobheckler]

Why didn't anyone address the fact that LA's FG% is getting HIGHER?
Gotta love when people use stats to support an argument but have no comment when their stat twisting is exposed.

TJ,

LA's fg% has increased starting in game 2. In game 1, LA's fg% was 48.7%. Then it dropped to 40.8% in game 2, 44.7% and lastly 45.1%. Their fga have been up and down too. 76 in games 1 & 3 (the games they won), only 71 in games 2 & 4 (the games they lost). Considering the Lakers lost the last game even with their second highest fg% (but tied for the lowest number of fga), one might surmise that fga is more important to the Lakers winning than fg%. Optimally you'd like to have both, more fga and a higher fg% like in game 1, but if forced to choose between the two, fg% appears to have less impact than fga.

Their assist totals have dropped and stayed down. 18 in games 1 & 2, 13 in games 3 & 4. More ME-ball, than B-ball. Neither number, to me, is particularly impressive when put in the context of the Lakers fgm. 18 assists on 37 fgm in game 1 (49%), 18 assists on 29 fgm in game 2 (62%), 13 assists on 34 fgm in game 3 (38%) and 13 assists off 32 fgm in game 4 (41%). Compare this to the Celtics (games 1-4): 66%, 78%, 63% and 41%. I attribute the low assist-fgm ratio in game 4 for the Celtics due to the minutes played by Nate Robinson, who created his own shots, and Baby who was taking Odom off the dribble. Over the course of the season and playoffs, though, our numbers are more like game 2s. Higher assist-fgm ratios mean better team offense.

As with LA, Boston's fga was a difference maker. When the Celts had 80+ fga (84 in game 2 and 83 in game) they won and when they got less (67 in game 1 and 73 in game 3) they lost while their fg% has been within a few % points of each other. Once again, I'd say that fga is a more material stat than fg%, including for the Celtics.

Lies, damn lies and statistics is what Mark Twain said, and he's right. Just because something is true, doesn't mean it's material. The Lakers fg% has in fact risen the last 3 games in a row, but they lost two of those three games. What that tells me is that there are other, more material, factors to consider.

bob

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[jeb]

the lakers are in his head...HA! OOOHHHH scary Lakers.

[bobheckler]

oops. Redundancy of effort. I didn't realize Sam was doing the same thing I was until I sent my post and read his just ahead of mine.

bob

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[dboss]

Certainly nice to arguments supported by facts

dboss

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