Kanter, Poirier Should Give Boston Big Boost on Boards

https://www.nba.com/celtics/news/sidebar/misc-071919-kanter-poirier-should-give-boston-big-boost-boards?sf216011668=1&fbclid=IwAR3qMvfOpguiubJJY6VxiF-yt3Q9LFH2rfIvYZEi5LK2QyTosLd2VQGGins









Kanter, Poirier Should Give Boston Big Boost on Boards



By Taylor C. Snow |  @taylorcsnow
Celtics.com
July 19, 2019




BOSTON – Rebounding has generally been an area of difficulty for the Boston Celtics over the last several seasons. The 2019-20 C’s aim to change that trend and, thanks to the team’s recent additions of Enes Kanter and Vincent Poirier, there is plenty of reason to believe that they will.

In signing the pair of centers earlier this week, the Celtics gained two rebounding machines. Kanter cleans the glass as well as any player in the NBA, while Poirier was the Euroleague’s top rebound-collector this past season. Together, they could make the Celtics a force to be reckoned with on the boards this coming season.

Many Celtics fans may already be aware of Kanter’s tremendous rebounding skills based on his past success against Boston.

“He has destroyed us on the glass,” head coach Brad Stevens reminded those in attendance at Wednesday’s introductory press conference for both Kanter and newly-signed point guard Kemba Walker.

In 20 career matchups against the C’s, Kanter has averaged 12.9 points and 8.7 rebounds per game while seeing 23.2 minutes of action. That includes 12.1 RPG over the past two seasons, during which he faced the C’s nine times. (His rebounding average per 36 minutes over that span was 18.6!)

Specifically, Kanter has excelled on the offensive glass. He has finished among the top three in offensive rebounding percentage during each of the past five seasons, while twice owning the No. 1 rate in the league (2015-16, 2017-18). That’s good news for a Celtics franchise that hasn’t seen a player finish among the top three in that department in more than 40 years.

To further prove how much of an impact the 6-foot-11, 250-pound center has had on his teams’ offensive rebounding numbers, we’ve laid out a few remarkable stats.

First, there was his impact on the Oklahoma City Thunder. Before acquiring Kanter during the 2014-15 season, OKC had ranked in the bottom half of the league in offensive rebounding for five consecutive campaigns. Things changed drastically once they acquired Kanter, however, as he helped OKC lead the NBA in that department during each of his three seasons there.

Kanter’s next stop was in New York, where he helped the 2017-18 Knicks achieve the No. 5 offensive rebounding ranking in the league. They maintained that No. 5 ranking through Jan. 8 of last season, which was when the Knicks started reducing Kanter’s role before eventually waiving him the following month. From that point until the end of the season, New York dropped all the way from fifth to 27th in offensive rebounding.

Portland then picked up Kanter during the 2019 All-Star break and they, too, were impacted by his rebounding skills. The Trail Blazers rose from seventh to second in offensive rebounding after acquiring the Turkish big man. He would later help fill the void of starting center Jusuf Nurkic, who suffered a season-ending leg injury in late March, and wound up playing a major role in guiding Portland to the Western Conference Finals.


Vincent Poirier grabs a rebound during 2017 NBA Summer League.
Garrett Ellwood/NBAE

Now, Kanter will take his glass-cleaning talents to Boston, where he will be joined by another dominant rebounder in Poirier. Standing at 7-foot-1 with a reach of nearly nine-and-a-half feet, Poirier provides a massive interior presence with a skill set of which Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge admires.

“He’s an active, athletic player,” Ainge said Wednesday. “He’s just another big body for us, with some things that we need to fine-tune. In our frontcourt, I think that he’s going to have a chance.”

During Euroleague play last season, Poirier averaged 11.9 points and a league-leading 8.3 rebounds per game, while shooting 62.1 percent from the field. Like Kanter, the 25-year-old, French big man is also a strong offensive rebounder, having tallied 5.23 offensive boards per 40 minutes while playing for the Spanish squad Baskonia.

Kanter and Poirier will share the frontcourt with a few other promising rebounders in Daniel Theis, Grant Williams and Robert Williams. Altogether, that group should greatly increase Boston’s odds in becoming a top-notch performer on the boards.



bob
MY NOTE: I cannot remember the last time I felt like we had a killer rebounder. Now we might have 2, or even 3 if Williams gets minutes and applies himself to it. KG never averaged 10 rpg for a season the whole time he was in Boston. Same with Perk. You probably have to go back to the Bird era for that. Last year we had our wings crashing the boards a lot with Horford and Baynes boxing their guys out. Al Horford, as versatile as he was/is, wasn't a great rebounder. This year I wouldn't be surprised if we go back to the old school style of play where bigs rebounded and outletted to guards and the wings just ran. Works for me. Run, baby, run.



.

We have sucked at rebounding for a long time.What a welcome change.We just got bigger and stronger. Good luck Yiannis and Embiid.

No mention of Robert Williams

I’m thrilled we will/should be a better rebounding team this year. Al was a pussy cat in the paint, he was basically out of position as a center....

I'm very happy and excited about our new bigs. Been wanting something like this for a long time, since the Dave Cowens era actually. If Brad can get all the newbies to mesh with our core, we could surprise a lot of people this year.

Berlin-T

before we all start giving Poirier a key part in the rotation.....there is this from Wiki

In July 2016, he participated in the NBA Summer League with Orlando Magic. In his first match, he finished with 6 points, 5 rebounds and 1 assist in 15 minutes. In five matches (including a tenure), he averaged 4.2 points, 4.4 rebounds, 0.6 assists and 0.4 blocks in 11.5 minutes per game


for comparison Tacko Fall averages this year in summer league ( or d-league play as I call it). were
12.6 Min
7.2 pts
4.0 reb
1.4 blocks

Rob Williams numbers?
19.6 Min
9.0 pts
9.8 Reb
2.0 assist
1.8 blocks

maybe replace Poirier with Rob Williams for all the talk of rebounding help, based on Summer league play.

now to be fair Poirer played in 2017, so he has had three years to improve. But truth be told, he's a 25YO pro player who never got an NBA deal before and is playing for VET MINIMUM.

I think maybe we all temper our expections, at least until we see the man play some games against real NBA players.

I do have real hope that Rob W. will be a surprise for us this year, he looked in great hsape in summer league and I think he may be able to play along WITH Kanter in big lineups with his ability to move on defense (if he can learn his assignments of course).

kdp59 wrote:before we all start giving Poirier  a key part in the rotation.....there is this from Wiki

In July 2016, he participated in the NBA Summer League with Orlando Magic. In his first match, he finished with 6 points, 5 rebounds and 1 assist in 15 minutes. In five matches (including a tenure), he averaged 4.2 points, 4.4 rebounds, 0.6 assists and 0.4 blocks in 11.5 minutes per game


for comparison Tacko Fall averages this year in summer league ( or d-league play as I call it). were
12.6 Min
7.2 pts
4.0 reb
1.4 blocks

Rob Williams numbers?
19.6 Min
9.0 pts
9.8 Reb
2.0 assist
1.8 blocks

maybe replace Poirier with Rob Williams for all the talk of rebounding help, based on Summer league play.

now to be fair Poirer played in 2017, so he has had three years to improve. But truth be told, he's a 25YO pro player who never got an NBA deal before and is playing for VET MINIMUM.

I think maybe we all temper our expections, at least until we see the man play some games against real NBA players.

I do have real hope that Rob W. will be a surprise for us this year, he looked in great hsape in summer league and I think he may be able to play along WITH Kanter in big lineups with his ability to  move on defense (if he can learn his assignments of course).

kdp,

You are wise to advise caution.  The truth is that we don't know how good Poirier will be in the NBA.  However, let me point out that Theis was a 25 year old NBA rookie who came in on a vet's minimum contract too, and he's turned out just fine.

I would expect to see Poirier, because of his greater height and weight, to be backing up Kanter more directly than Williams.  I'm not discounting Williams, I just saying that body-wise Poirier is more like Kanter than Williams, and so is his game.  

Should be fun to watch.  It has been a LONG time since we've had low-post players like this.  It will be interesting to see if they still can have a place in today's NBA.  On a personal level, I hope they do.  I love watching a good Mastodon Mamba and today's "if you run at me I'll yell and fall down" perimeter game feels somewhat sterile and effete to me.

You know, having mentioned "The Mastodon Mamba" I just remembered Sully.  There was another low-post rebounder we had that I forgot about.  Too bad he was a little short for 5 and had to take his game out to the perimeter (and then fell in love with it).  Kanter is Sully except right-sized.


bob


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Too bad Sully ate himself out of the league....

cowens/oldschool wrote:Too bad Sully ate himself out of the league....

Cow,

Every time a member of a club/league leaves that opens up an opportunity for another to take their place. In 2006, Pluto was demoted from being considered a planet to being just a "dwarf planet".

Go Sully!


bob


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And I still worry about the Celts being his 4th team in 4 years - his salary drop from 18 mil to 5 mil - despite excellent recent years in rebounding and EFG%.

swish

swish wrote:And I still worry about the Celts being his 4th team in 4 years  - his salary drop from 18 mil to 5 mil - despite excellent recent years in rebounding and EFG%.

  swish

I’m rooting for him, he’s not the perfect player, but who is...????

No question he’s gotten flip* by a lot of franchises recently, and I’ve seen him go on scoring and rebounding sprees and we’ve all been flip* over in life....it happens. For all the people that have been flip* over in life at some point, I am rooting for Kantor!!!

cowens/oldschool wrote:

swish wrote:And I still worry about the Celts being his 4th team in 4 years  - his salary drop from 18 mil to 5 mil - despite excellent recent years in rebounding and EFG%.

  swish

I’m rooting for him, he’s not the perfect player, but who is...????

No question he’s gotten flip* by a lot of franchises recently, and I’ve seen him go on scoring and rebounding sprees and we’ve all been flip* over in life....it happens. For all the people that have been flip* over in life at some point, I am rooting for Kantor!!!

I'm rooting for him also - but with trepidation.

swish

dboss wrote:No mention of Robert Williams

Maybe a bit of an oversight by the author.

My guess is that R Williams probably gets minutes after Kanter, then Theis 3rd.

Poirier and Fall, if they keep him, probably go G-League to see if they can (respectively) adapt to and learn the NBA/pro-level game.

NYCelt wrote:

dboss wrote:No mention of Robert Williams

Maybe a bit of an oversight by the author.

My guess is that R Williams probably gets minutes after Kanter, then Theis 3rd.

Poirier and Fall, if they keep him, probably go G-League to see if they can (respectively) adapt to and learn the NBA/pro-level game.

NY,

Skill set aside, I doubt Poirier goes to Maine. I'd bet that Danny promised him real NBA time to get him to sign. Did Theis spend any time in Maine? That is the precedent to consider when discussing V-Po.

V-Po is a 6 or 7 year pro. OJT for him. He may push Rob Williams to 3rd stringer or to Maine, not the other way around.

As far as to why Rob Williams wasn't mentioned, it was because the article's theme was about recent additions. It states that in the very first line. Williams is not a recent addition.

gyso

Poirier to the G League ? You got to be kidding.

gyso wrote:

NYCelt wrote:

dboss wrote:No mention of Robert Williams

Maybe a bit of an oversight by the author.

My guess is that R Williams probably gets minutes after Kanter, then Theis 3rd.

Poirier and Fall, if they keep him, probably go G-League to see if they can (respectively) adapt to and learn the NBA/pro-level game.

NY,

Skill set aside, I doubt Poirier goes to Maine.  I'd bet that Danny promised him real NBA time to get him to sign.  Did Theis spend any time in Maine?  That is the precedent to consider when discussing V-Po.

V-Po is a 6 or 7 year pro.  OJT for him.  He may push Rob Williams to 3rd stringer or to Maine, not the other way around.

As far as to why Rob Williams wasn't mentioned, it was because the article's theme was about recent additions.  It states that in the very first line.  Williams is not a recent addition.

gyso

                            He did mention Robert Williams, if only briefly.

Last paragraph.

If Poirier goes to Maine it will only be to get his game rhythm back after an injury.  Considering he went on record as saying he isn't going to come to the NBA to sit on a bench it would be crazy for him to be demoted.  Will it take him a while to get used to the NBA game?  Absolutely, just like it took Theis a while, but he will get it and it won't be in Bangor, Maine.

One of the good things I have noticed about veteran Euro players coming to the NBA is that they don't have an expectation coming out of the gate of playing 30+mpg, like players do here.  They play 20mpg over there and they don't complain about it.  Last year Poirier played 21mpg.  He played 24.6mpg 2 years ago and that was his high water mark, he played under 20mpg the other 3 years he has been pro.  If he plays 20mpg this year I don't doubt he'll be quite happy with that.  20mpg is what we call "a rotation player", which is what he will be, while in Europe he was a starter with the same minutes. My guess, and I hate making them, is that he'll play closer to 15mpg this year. That's what Theis played his first year and he was a big shot in Europe too (2X German League Champion and League MVP). A few minutes less than he played in Germany, but not too many less.

Forget about Maine for Poirier, though, other than for rehab. Danny didn't compete to sign Poirier because he's expecting him to be a project.


bob



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Bob,

The Maineiac in me has to correct you. Portland is where the Red Claws play, not Bangor.

Other than that, good post.

gyso

yes Bob agree about Theis as a possible comp for Poirier.

Theis has averaged 14.9 and 13.8 Min/H in his two years here.

I would also note another big man Ainge brought over from overseas who was also 25YO at the time. He had size as well and we had a bigger need for a Center to step into the void.

his name as we all remember was Vitor Faverani...one of our all times greats!!

I'm really not making fun of the players from overseas, but we do need to know that if someone is already 25YO and never got a sniff from the NBA before, there is probably a reason for that. Especially how the NBA scouts overseas players now.

Perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised, but my money will be on Rob W. being the guy who gets the minutes.

If Kantor can put in 30 plus minutes per game and basically the same numbers that he has over the last 4 years - and doesn't have issues that may be viewed as detrimental to the team - then all this speculation about the backups is quite irrelevant.

swish

swish wrote:If Kantor can put in 30 plus minutes per game and basically the same numbers that he has over the last 4 years - and doesn't have issues that may be viewed as detrimental to the team - then all this speculation about the backups is quite irrelevant.

  swish

In what way is our speculation not relevant?  What else do we have to do during the off season?

You speculate that he'll play 30 minutes, he's accomplished that (more or less) for just one season (2014-15).  Do you think that 30 minutes for next season is realistic?  His minutes in the last four seasons has been more like 25 minutes per game (or less).

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kanteen01.html

That still leaves about 23 minutes per game for the bench to play.  Almost half of a game.  That's plenty to generate speculation.

Just saying.

gyso wrote:

swish wrote:If Kantor can put in 30 plus minutes per game and basically the same numbers that he has over the last 4 years - and doesn't have issues that may be viewed as detrimental to the team - then all this speculation about the backups is quite irrelevant.

  swish

In what way is our speculation not relevant?  What else do we have to do during the off season?  

You speculate that he'll play 30 minutes, he's accomplished that (more or less) for just one season (2014-15).  Do you think that 30 minutes for next season is realistic?  His minutes in the last four seasons has been more like 25 minutes per game (or less).

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kanteen01.html

That still leaves about 23 minutes per game for the bench to play.  Almost half of a game.  That's plenty to generate speculation.

Just saying.

Good questions gyso.

* Nothing wrong with speculating - but in this case we are speculating about a 26 year old rookie ( Poirier ) and 2 players , Theis 13.8 and Williams 8.8 minutes per game last year. Pretty much a wishing game, don't you think?

* Rather short minutes for Kanter for sure - but in these last 3 years he's had to share floor time with several centers and power forwards who played at least 17 minutes per game. Portland-Nurkic,Collins,,, OKC-Adams,Sabonis,Ilyasova,Gibson,,,Knicks-Porzingis,O'Quinn,Beasley,Knox,Vonlegh,Jordan,Robinson. I would hope that Kanter proves worthy of significantly more minutes per game this year, against this years roster as it now stands.

swish

Swish,

V-Po is not a typical rookie.  He has been playing professional ball against men for 6 years or more.  Many wonder how this will translate to the NBA.  Some have already made their minds up about him before actually seeing him play, good or bad.  

Theis had a decrease in minutes from his 14.9 min/game rookie year.  Due to our lack of players at the PF, he may have to play more minutes this next season.  I believe that he had some injuries that affected his playing time last season.  

The Timelord is a second year player who showed some intriguing abilities last season.  He only played sparingly last year, but as a late 1st rounder, I do not find that surprising.  Many thought that he should have been drafted earlier and we were lucky for him to fall to us.  I expect that his minutes will increase this next season.

No one is playing a wishing game here.  They are just wondering (and speculating) how the two recent additions will add to the two returning players based on the info given.  The original article suggested that our poor history of rebounding will likely improve.  Some here agree.  Others urge caution in our expectations.

This is exactly what this board is for.  Speculation is the name of our game.

gyso

I’m all about speculating and I’ll even make a prediction....