Whose NBA career is better? Wilt Chamberlain vs. Bill Russell

by **gyso** Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:13 am

https://sports.yahoo.com/whose-nba-career-is-better-wilt-chamberlain-vs-bill-russell-162650954.html

Ben Rohrbach,Yahoo Sports•August 21, 2019

Victors are determined decisively on the court, but one great joy of fandom outside the lines has no clear winner. We love to weigh the merits of our favorite players against each other, and yet a taproom full of basketball fans can never unanimously agree on the GOAT. In this series, we attempt to settle scores of NBA undercard debates — or at least give you fodder for your next “Who is better?” argument.

THE MATCHUP: Wilt Chamberlain vs. Bill Russell

Prime numbers

Bill Russell won titles in his first and final seasons. Chamberlain led the league in both scoring and rebounding as a rookie and still was the NBA’s best board man entering retirement. Both made the All-Star team every year but one — Russell because his Olympic team commitment cost him the start of his rookie year and Chamberlain because a ruptured right patellar tendon cost him all but 12 games in 1969-70. Cutting their careers down to a specific prime almost seems disrespectful.

For his 14-year career, Chamberlain averaged 30.1 points (54.0 FG%, 51.1 FT%), 22.9 rebounds and 4.4 assists in 45.8 minutes per game. During that span, he led the league in scoring seven times (while leading the league in field-goal percentage nine times) and rebounding 11 times. His single-season highs were 50.4 points, 27.2 rebounds and 8.6 assists. (And, wildly, 48.5 minutes per game.) Chamberlain is, quite simply, the most dominant player statistically the game has ever seen.

Meanwhile, Russell averaged 15.1 points (44.0 FG%, 56.1 FT%), 22.5 rebounds and 4.3 assists in 42.3 minutes per game over his 13-year career. Stats don’t do him justice, especially since the league did not track blocks for the greatest defender in NBA history. Russell never averaged more than 18.2 points per game.

To give you an idea of Russell’s impact beyond statistics: Outside of his rookie season, when he received the seventh-most Most Valuable Player votes, he finished lower than fourth in MVP voting just once, in his second-to-last season, when as a player-coach he led the Celtics to the title. He won five MVPs, finishing second, third and fourth in the voting twice apiece. (In his 14 seasons, Chamberlain won four MVPs and finished outside the top four in the voting on five occasions.)

But we’re talking about stats here, and while we could argue whether Russell might have compiled greater individual numbers had he not played with a host of Hall of Famers, Chamberlain played with a cast of all-time greats, too. And any discussion always leads us to the same conclusion: The stats favor Chamberlain.

Advantage: Chamberlain

Career high

It depends on what you want out of Wilt if you are trying to determine his peak. From a statistical standpoint, he led the league in scoring and rebounding with 50.4 points and 25.7 boards while averaging 48.5 minutes over the course of a full 80-game season in 1961-62. That is the season he scored 100 points in a single game.

Still, both Chamberlain and Oscar Robertson, who averaged his triple-double that season, lost the MVP race to Russell by a wide margin, back when the players used to vote. That speaks to both the ludicrousness of the statistics at the time and the general opinion of Wilt, who attempted almost 30 percent of his team’s field-goal attempts that season (to Russell’s 6.3 percent) and was traded two years later.

It wasn’t until 1966-67 that Chamberlain dialed back his ball dominance for the betterment of the team. Sharing the wealth with three future Hall of Fame teammates, a 30-year-old Wilt averaged 7.8 assists to go with his 24.1 points (on career-high 68.3 percent shooting) and 24.2 rebounds per game. He was in the midst of a run on three straight MVPs, earning better than 75 percent of the vote.

Chamberlain led the Philadelphia 76ers to a league-best 68 wins that season, beating Russell’s Celtics in a five-game East finals set en route to his first title. In those playoffs, Chamberlain averaged a 22-29-9 on 57.9 percent shooting.

Of course, Russell already had nine rings by then. It’s hard to peg which of the four seasons in which Russell won regular-season MVP and a title was his best, but that ’62 season will do just fine. Again, the fact that he decisively won MVP in a season when Chamberlain and Robertson were at their statistical peaks says an awful lot.

The 1961-62 Celtics won 60 games in the regular season before taking a seven-game series against Chamberlain’s Warriors and a Los Angeles Lakers team stacked with Elgin Baylor and Jerry West at the top. Russell posted 30 points and an NBA-record 44 rebounds in Game 7 against the Lakers to win his fourth of eight straight titles.

Russell posted a career-high 18.9 points (on 45.7 percent shooting) at age 27 during that regular season, with 23.6 rebounds and 4.5 assists per game. As usual, he raised his game in the playoffs, averaging a 22-26-5 on 46/73 shooting splits. Really, though, you could pick any of Russell’s eight straight championship seasons as his peak, because he was so remarkably consistent — and consistently driven.

That’s the thing. When Chamberlain finally bought in to winning a ring, he submitted one of the great seasons in NBA history from the standpoint of individual statistics, team success and wall-to-wall domination. We can also debate whether that was because Russell struggled in his first year as player-coach or because his Celtics teammates had retired or faded by then, but I’m giving Wilt the slightest of edges when it comes to his absolute apex. It makes you wish he bought in all the time.

Advantage: Chamberlain

Clutch gene

Russell’s averages rose to 16.2 points, 24.9 rebounds and 4.7 assists in his 165 career playoff games. Chamberlain’s dropped to 22.5 points, 24.5 rebounds and 4.2 assists in his 160 career playoff games. But let’s dispense with the numbers for a minute and concentrate on Russell rising to the occasion as Chamberlain stumbled.

Russell famously finished his career 10-0 in Game 7s and 16-2 in close-out games. Chamberlain was 4-5 and 10-11, respectively. The two titans met eight times in the playoffs, and Russell won seven of those series, including four Game 7s by a grand total of nine points. You can probably guess who has 11 rings and who won two.
Those four Game 7s …

1962: Celtics 109, 76ers 107

Russell held Chamberlain to a season-low 22 points during a year in which Wilt averaged 50 points, while scoring 19 himself. Russell also deflected the inbounds pass intended for Chamberlain, expiring the clock after Sam Jones’ game-winner.

1965: Celtics 110, 76ers 109

Russell posted a 15-29-9 on a bad foot and was aided by John Havlicek’s steal.

1968: Celtics 100, 76ers 96

Russell held Chamberlain to 14 points and just two field-goal attempts in the second half. In the final seconds, Russell blocked the would-be game-tying shot and grabbed a rebound over Chamberlain to secure victory. Oh, and he coached the winning side, completing the first comeback from a 3-1 deficit in NBA history.

1969: Celtics 108, Lakers 106

Chamberlain was essentially benched for the final 5:19. After banging his knee and asking out of the game, the Lakers erased a sizable deficit, and coach Butch van Breda Kolff refused to let Wilt re-enter the game. Afterward, Russell reportedly said, “In a game like that, they would have to carry me out to get me off the floor,” contributing to a rift between the two legends that lasted nearly a quarter-century.

We could break this category down in further detail, but there are countless accounts from both media and players from that era, including from Wilt and his own teammates, that make clear how much more Russell simply wanted to win — a trait that translated to his success in the final moments of the biggest games.

The most damning of those accounts comes from Rick Barry, via Bill Simmons’ “Book of Basketball”: “When it comes down to the closing minutes of a tough game, an important game, he doesn’t want the ball, he doesn’t want any part of the pressure. It is at these times that greatness is determined, and Wilt doesn’t have it.”

Advantage: Russell

Hardware

• Chamberlain: Two-time champion (1972 Finals MVP); four-time Most Valuable Player; 13-time All-Star (1960 All-Star Game MVP); 10-time All-NBA selection (7x First Team, 3x Second Team); two-time All-Defensive First Team selection; 1960 Rookie of the Year; seven-time scoring champion; 11-time rebounding leader; 1968 assists leader; 1957 NCAA Tournament Most Outstanding Player

• Russell: Eleven-time champion; five-time Most Valuable Player; 12-time All-Star (1963 All-Star Game MVP); 11-time All-NBA selection (3x First Team, 8x Second Team); four-time rebounding leader; two-time NCAA champion (1955 NCAA Tournament Most Outstanding Player); 1956 Olympic gold medalist

Chamberlain was voted the First Team All-NBA center over Russell in seven of the 10 seasons during which their careers overlapped, but let me ask you this: Would you rather have 11 championship rings and five MVP trophies or two and four? There is not another player in NBA history who can compare hardware with Russell.

Advantage: Russell

For the culture

You may have noticed that Chamberlain won a Finals MVP, while Russell did not. That is because they did not institute the honor until 1969, when the NBA awarded it to Wilt’s teammate, Jerry West, during a losing effort to Russell’s Celtics in his final season. Instead, they named the freaking award after Russell 36 years later.

Russell is widely considered the greatest winner in the history of team sports. That is an untouchable legacy on its own, and it may not be his best. Russell was as great a champion for civil rights, famously turning down an invitation to stand onstage alongside Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. for his “I Have a Dream” speech, sitting front row so as not to distract from organizers of the March of Washington. From Muhammad Ali to Colin Kaepernick, Russell continues advocating for social justice, to say nothing of his lifelong charitable commitment to mentorship. For all of this, Russell was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by Barack Obama in 2011.

As The Undefeated’s Justin Tinsley detailed, Chamberlain’s activism came in quieter forms, although he too attended Dr. King’s funeral in 1968. Amid criticism from prominent members of the black community, Chamberlain campaigned for Richard Nixon that same year, when he believed that the Republican presidential candidate was the best path toward equality, a stance he later came to regret.

Chamberlain’s lasting off-court legacy more likely links him to his claim in a 1991 biography that he had bedded roughly 20,000 women — a back-of-the-envelope calculation that equals out to roughly 10 women a week over a 40-year period.

That, too, he came to regret, just as he lamented his Game 7 losses to Russell in one of the final interviews of his life. He would have turned 83 today. It is a shame we could not see the ambassador he could have become over the past 20 years.

Advantage: Russell

THE DAGGER: Bill Russell is better.

My comment: It is a slow summer. Here is something many of us will enjoy.

by **dboss** Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:24 am

Way before Russell ended his amazing 13 year career it was clearly established in the minds of Celtics fans that Bill Russell had bested Wilt and everyone else.

The historical record pretty much speaks for itself but for Celtics fans the understanding of his rivalry with the Big Dipper was realized in watching the games that were played. The feeling that we had as fans for Bill Russell can never be captured in any historical account.

by **dbrown4** Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:52 am

They were clearly two Titans who had completely different mindsets on what was that was going to make them #1. Russell figured it out way earlier in his life and career. Wilt took considerably longer and when he did figure it out, it was almost too late. At least what really mattered. Me vs. Team. Great read...thanks gyso!

db

by **RosalieTCeltics** Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:03 pm

The one thing Chamberlain did not have was the killer instinct. Many times I watched him give up when he was getting beat by Russelll. In an ECF he refused to go back into a game, knowing he was beat, on his own floor.
I know I have said many times that I believe Russell was the greatest, so I will continue with that thought.’ If you want to go with stats, of course there will be those who never watched them play against each other and would go with Chamberlain. Not me. And my guy has 11 rings to probe it

by **bobc33** Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:12 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:The one thing Chamberlain did not have was the killer instinct. Many times I watched him give up when he was getting beat by Russelll. In an ECF he refused to go back into a game, knowing he was beat, on his own floor.
I know I have said many times that I believe Russell was the greatest, so I will continue with that thought.’ If you want to go with stats, of course there will be those who never watched them play against each other and would go with Chamberlain. Not me. And my guy has 11 rings to probe it

Rosalie I agree with you. However, your pal Draper has already declared Bill Russell is “his guy.” affraid

by **jrleftfoot** Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:57 pm

I still see them flashing across the tv screen in black and white. Watched a lot of the 69 series in the University of Maryland student union.

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:27 pm

I’ve read Bill Simmons big book, best most complete journey thru the game by far that I’ve ever read. It’s also very opinionated, but I agree with almost all his takes. He covers a ton on Wilt, Russ, Bird, everything. He did the most thorough research you could do by a writer who did not see them play, but diligently detailed every pundit/writer and players/coaches quotes and stats on how Wilt would always come up small at the most crucial time of the game that separates the greats from the not quite so greats. And he quoted everybody, great read....

So on a personal note my youngest son Johnny, who some of you met at the NYC playoff party, then the last one with Sam, has left for college, also going to Purdue, where his older brother graduated from 2 years ago. It’s tough, didn’t realize how much joy he brought me daily, letting me play Dad, so this board is great for me to get my mind off how much I miss my boys. This whole empty nest process that I just got to and am at now is really a lot tougher than I thought, was so much fun watching Celtic games with them....

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:30 pm

jrleftfoot wrote:I still see them flashing across the tv screen in black and white. Watched a lot of the 69 series in the University of Maryland student union.

I hear ya, I remember that series vividly....that team was so gritty, Siegfried, Emmett Bryant, Hondo were all equally amazing. Still remember Russel getting so many big rebounds and playing great defense, the way he jumped stood out on that screen.

by **jrleftfoot** Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:37 pm

Russ had to go out with a win!

by **jrleftfoot** Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:47 pm

I feel you, cow. My daughters live all the way across the country. My oldest just turned 50, though, so that nest has been empty for a while. I get out to the left coast to see them a couple times a year. Modern technology helps in that respect.

by **mrkleen09** Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:31 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:I’ve read Bill Simmons big book, best most complete journey thru the game by far that I’ve ever read. It’s also very opinionated, but I agree with almost all his takes. He covers a ton on Wilt, Russ, Bird, everything. He did the most thorough research you could do by a writer who did not see them play, but diligently detailed every pundit/writer and players/coaches quotes and stats on how Wilt would always come up small at the most crucial time of the game that separates the greats from the not quite so greats. And he quoted everybody, great read....

So on a personal note my youngest son Johnny, who some of you met at the NYC playoff party, then the last one with Sam, has left for college, also going to Purdue, where his older brother graduated from 2 years ago. It’s tough, didn’t realize how much joy he brought me daily, letting me play Dad, so this board is great for me to get my mind off how much I miss my boys. This whole empty nest process that I just got to and am at now is really a lot tougher than I thought, was so much fun watching Celtic games with them....

All your hard work in paying off and your kids are realizing a great dream. I know it must be hard, but WELL DONE DAD.

We are here for you Cow, anytime you need us. Smile

by **RosalieTCeltics** Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:58 am

Cow....I know where you are coming from. My daughter was and is the most independent woman. She went to college in Boston, lived at home, then went off to Ireland for a semester. When she came back, she was a different girl. Graduated, moved out almost immediately and never looked back. I tried to convince her to live off of us for the time she was going for her masters.....ha ha, she had the taste by then and kept going. She is still in the City, but is so busy, we get to see her once in a while.
Then my son moved out, moved to Washington DC for a couple of years, then moved back home. He is gone now, but lives close enough to have dinner with Mom and Dad once in a while; when I was sick, he was the rock that held things together. When he moved, I missed him a ton. No one to watch bball with or argue over games!! It is hard to get used to, but time marches on, they grow up, become the fine adults you hoped they would be. I bet your son misses you as much as you miss him! You will get used to it the new norm replaces the old. The one thing you can look back on and say "gee, I did a pretty good job raising these kids" and feel good..
In the meantime, you have us, all or most, in the same boat. Chin up my friend, this too shall pass.

by **worcester** Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:52 am

Russ was severely hobbled that last season, but in the playoffs he reigned supreme. What an indominatable spirit.

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:57 am

jrleftfoot wrote:I feel you, cow. My daughters live all the way across the country. My oldest just turned 50, though, so that nest has been empty for a while. I get out to the left coast to see them a couple times a year. Modern technology helps in that respect.

Thanks jr, fatherhood was obviously a great experience that transformed my life....

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:05 am

mrkleen09 wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:I’ve read Bill Simmons big book, best most complete journey thru the game by far that I’ve ever read. It’s also very opinionated, but I agree with almost all his takes. He covers a ton on Wilt, Russ, Bird, everything. He did the most thorough research you could do by a writer who did not see them play, but diligently detailed every pundit/writer and players/coaches quotes and stats on how Wilt would always come up small at the most crucial time of the game that separates the greats from the not quite so greats. And he quoted everybody, great read....

So on a personal note my youngest son Johnny, who some of you met at the NYC playoff party, then the last one with Sam, has left for college, also going to Purdue, where his older brother graduated from 2 years ago. It’s tough, didn’t realize how much joy he brought me daily, letting me play Dad, so this board is great for me to get my mind off how much I miss my boys. This whole empty nest process that I just got to and am at now is really a lot tougher than I thought, was so much fun watching Celtic games with them....

All your hard work in paying off and your kids are realizing a great dream. I know it must be hard, but WELL DONE DAD.

We are here for you Cow, anytime you need us.

Thanks kleen, got a real kick out of seeing you and Owen on my TV screen, even told my kids about it. Enjoy all the great work and pleasures of fatherhood. On another note, don’t know if I ever thanked you for recommending Professor Thoms for the site of that first NYC playoff party which my kids begged me to attend and I couldn’t say no. They got to meet Sam and a host of others and we had a great time, and Sam did not disappoint as he was as gracious as you can imagine....Give Owen a hug for me!!

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:08 am

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Cow....I know where you are coming from. My daughter was and is the most independent woman. She went to college in Boston, lived at home, then went off to Ireland for a semester. When she came back, she was a different girl. Graduated, moved out almost immediately and never looked back. I tried to convince her to live off of us for the time she was going for her masters.....ha ha, she had the taste by then and kept going. She is still in the City, but is so busy, we get to see her once in a while.
Then my son moved out, moved to Washington DC for a couple of years, then moved back home. He is gone now, but lives close enough to have dinner with Mom and Dad once in a while; when I was sick, he was the rock that held things together. When he moved, I missed him a ton. No one to watch bball with or argue over games!! It is hard to get used to, but time marches on, they grow up, become the fine adults you hoped they would be. I bet your son misses you as much as you miss him! You will get used to it the new norm replaces the old. The one thing you can look back on and say "gee, I did a pretty good job raising these kids" and feel good..
In the meantime, you have us, all or most, in the same boat. Chin up my friend, this too shall pass.

Thanks for your kind words Rosie, right now its tough, wifey and I feel a big void is missing, guess time will only help. Blessed to have such great kids, was an amazing ride....

by **mrkleen09** Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:21 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:
mrkleen09 wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:I’ve read Bill Simmons big book, best most complete journey thru the game by far that I’ve ever read. It’s also very opinionated, but I agree with almost all his takes. He covers a ton on Wilt, Russ, Bird, everything. He did the most thorough research you could do by a writer who did not see them play, but diligently detailed every pundit/writer and players/coaches quotes and stats on how Wilt would always come up small at the most crucial time of the game that separates the greats from the not quite so greats. And he quoted everybody, great read....

So on a personal note my youngest son Johnny, who some of you met at the NYC playoff party, then the last one with Sam, has left for college, also going to Purdue, where his older brother graduated from 2 years ago. It’s tough, didn’t realize how much joy he brought me daily, letting me play Dad, so this board is great for me to get my mind off how much I miss my boys. This whole empty nest process that I just got to and am at now is really a lot tougher than I thought, was so much fun watching Celtic games with them....

All your hard work in paying off and your kids are realizing a great dream. I know it must be hard, but WELL DONE DAD.

We are here for you Cow, anytime you need us.
Thanks kleen, got a real kick out of seeing you and Owen on my TV screen, even told my kids about it. Enjoy all the great work and pleasures of fatherhood. On another note, don’t know if I ever thanked you for recommending Professor Thoms for the site of that first NYC playoff party which my kids begged me to attend and I couldn’t say no. They got to meet Sam and a host of others and we had a great time, and Sam did not disappoint as he was as gracious as you can imagine....Give Owen a hug for me!!

Will do Cow. Made it to the Hall of Fame last weekend and the kid spent 3 hours there, which is a lot for a 5 year old. He loved it.

Whose NBA career is better? Wilt Chamberlain vs. Bill Russell Img_7610

Whose NBA career is better? Wilt Chamberlain vs. Bill Russell Img_7611

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:27 am

Kleen that’s awesome!!!!

by **NYCelt** Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:45 pm

Cow, jr, Kleen, Rosalie, +

First off, what a great shot of Owen on the Court of Dreams!

Also, I appreciate those of you who share your family and parenting experiences here. We've seen so many families grow and heard their stories on this forum over the years. You've all reminded me of the importance of cherishing each day, and you're such great examples to follow.

As my son starts his sophomore year of high school, I'm trying to make sure to savor the moments. I've even just agreed to return to coaching baseball, which will keep me on the road and in the dugout with him as we travel to tournaments around the East Coast the next couple of years. No doubt I'll be looking back here for inspiration and reminders on how to be the best parent I can, as it gets closer to time to hand over that tuition. Not that I think parenting, or handing over funds, stops there!

And back to Owen... MrKleen... He's going to be going out on dates and shooting over you in father-son games in what will seem like the next heartbeat. I'm already that far. It goes as fast as everyone here has said.

Regards

by **mrkleen09** Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:56 pm

by **RosalieTCeltics** Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:57 pm

Kleen....he gets more and more handsome with every picture. Treasure every moment. I think I have taken my son to the HOF five times over the years and the baseball HOF was the trip he remembers all the time. So. the thoughts are there. My daughter danced for 17 years and I never missed a night, and I am reminded of that by her periodically. At 48, she decided to go back to tap class and her Dad insisted on buying her new tap shoes.

You are making memories, some for you, alot for Owen. Believe me that will not be the last trip you take to the HOF, he is so darn smart and seems to be in love with basketball. I love seeing these pictures of him I remember when he was born!!!! Keep up the good work.

NYCelt, someday your son will look back and admire all that you have done for him. And you will want to bring them all back

by **mrkleen09** Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:10 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Kleen....he gets more and more handsome with every picture. Treasure every moment. I think I have taken my son to the HOF five times over the years and the baseball HOF was the trip he remembers all the time. So. the thoughts are there. My daughter danced for 17 years and I never missed a night, and I am reminded of that by her periodically. At 48, she decided to go back to tap class and her Dad insisted on buying her new tap shoes.

You are making memories, some for you, alot for Owen. Believe me that will not be the last trip you take to the HOF, he is so darn smart and seems to be in love with basketball. I love seeing these pictures of him I remember when he was born!!!! Keep up the good work.

NYCelt, someday your son will look back and admire all that you have done for him. And you will want to bring them all back

Thank you so much for your kind words Rosalie - hope we can see you at a board meet up in the near future.

by **wideclyde** Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:05 am

This topic has been such a great debate for almost 60 years! Not too many other sports related debates can claim the same number of years that I can think of.

Being a Cs fan since slightly before the debate started, I still have it, and will never change my mind-Russell over Chamberlain.

by **worcester** Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:55 am

One stat that tells a lot about Wilt is 5000+, the number of women he said he slept with.
If a guy is secure emotionally, he does not have to go on and on proving himself in that way. To paraphrase the words of longshoreman philosopher Eric Hoffer, "you can never get enough of what you don't really want to make you happy."

by **swish** Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:34 am

The winner will always be Russell - as long as the decission is based on the number of championship rings.

swish

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