OK THIS CHAPTER IS CLOSED.......WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?

Ok, this chapter on Celtic lure is closed and a new chapter will be written this summer. So how's it going to be written?

I think we all need a dose of reality and the fact is that we are old and not as mobile and we need to move on to new names and future legends. So where to begin?

Well for one thing everything starts and ends with Paul Pierce. Pierce is in a players option year of his contract at $20M +. If he is a true Celtic and wants to help the team he will work a side deal with management and become a fee agent, therefore freeing up a large amount of cap space so the Celtics can then go after some young and up and coming talent. He can then sign a career ending contract over X amount of years at a lower amount and end his career as a Celtic. This could also help Pierce in that a rebuilding can begin quickly with the Celtics and perhaps bring a Championship back to Boston.

This is a make or break from the Celtic Organization near term. If not and he picks up his contract, look for the Celtics to trade him come March for a younger talent/high draft choice and he ends his career with another team. A highly improbable move for the second highest scorer in Celtic history and so called legend.

Perkins, love his hard work but may not fit into next years plans due to his probable knee operation he will have to go through. If so this really signals a rebuilding process which may affect the next couple of players next in my discussion. Perkins comes cheap at $4.5M to shelve for a year and bring in another young center to develop. Powe was out until almost March of this year from his operation, so this could make sense.

Rasheed could also be another nice surprise if he retires, we clear $6.25M off our books and opens up more cap room.

Ray Allen, love the guy but we need young legs and talent and I think he would command too high of a salary to justify him returning and taking money away from younger talent.

KG. It is not out of the question that if the Celtic Organization tells KG that they will be rebuilding, will he want to hang on and go through the motions? Doubt that. Let's also face the fact that after this year he may have 2 good years left in his injured knee. So this opens up a possible trade to a team perhaps on the door to making it to the finals who need veteran leadership as well as great talent. Oklahoma, Chicago and a few others I'm not thinking about yet. But you get the idea. That could free up close to $20M as well.

Now you have to begin to build around Rondo. You signed him 5 years for big dollars, now you have to build around him and his strengths. He's the next Celtic Legend who probably will be a lifer with the Celtics. You build a team of speed and jumping ability to control both pane's of glass.

Big Baby is like looking at a glass of water. Is the glass half full or half empty? That's Baby. He's physically big and a bang'er with soft hands and a nice jump shot. However, he is undersized for his position, and has no vertical leaping ability
and unless he get proper position, cannot rebound around taller players.

To sum it up, it will be a summer of change in the City of Boston for our beloved Celtics!

112288

To me it is WAY too soon to even start thinking about such things.

The body is still warm so to speak. Need to let it lie for a bit, switch up my weeknight life (i.e. stop drinking on Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday and start running every day again) and start paying attention to the Red Sox (they are 1 GAME OUT) for a while.

Celtics will be just fine, and one way or another I will be a fan. For the near future, basketball is dead to me - I dont want to watch Sportscenter or hear ANY post game comments from Kobe or Phil Jackson - just want to enjoy this beautiful weekend in Boston and move on.

112288 wrote:

Well for one thing everything starts and ends with Paul Pierce. Pierce is in a players option year of his contract at $20M +. If he is a true Celtic and wants to help the team he will work a side deal with management and become a free agent, therefore freeing up a large amount of cap space so the Celtics can then go after some young and up and coming talent. He can then sign a career ending contract over X amount of years at a lower amount and end his career as a Celtic. This could also help Pierce in that a rebuilding can begin quickly with the Celtics and perhaps bring a Championship back to Boston.

112288

112288,

It doesn't work that way. If Pierce opts out and becomes a free agent, there is a thing called Free Agent Amount (aka cap hold) that prevents this very kind of end-around of the cap rules.

Read the second post in the thread:

Collective Bargaining Agreement Q and A

We have the draft coming up on the 24th, so we may see some roster movement soon. Deals can be made to move up or down in the draft now. We saw that in the year the Celtics traded for Ray Allen.

Players with expiring contracts become free agents on July 1. Then there is a trade moratorium in the first week or so of July so that the NBA bean-counters can compute the new salary cap numbers. Then free agents can be signed, beginning on July 8th.

For the Celtics, there doesn't seem to be enough time between Game 7 of the finals to the NBA draft. There is a lot of things not settled, like is Doc leaving? Is Danny leaving? There is a story about Danny leaving for the GM position with the Suns (I can't imagine that happening, but who knows?)

So, first on the agenda is the draft on Thursday. We pick 19th. Can we move up by trading?

Given the uncertainty with Perk and Sheed, we need a true big. Like you say, Glen Davis is not the answer as a starter. He is no longer BYC and his perceived value couldn't be higher, given his play recently. Maybe he gets packaged with pick 19 and we move up and get a true big.

IMO, we don't have to blow the whole thing up and start over. In the playoffs, we beat the 1st, 2nd and 5th seeded teams in the East and almost beat the top team in the West.

That being said, we do need to make some changes.

gyso

Gyso,

On Pierce. This was proposed in 3-4 different articles which appeared in Boston.com, ESPN Boston, Real GM and Hoops Hype. So I'm just going by what they were proposing. They appeared several months ago.

You are right about Doc. With Ainge it was discussed in Boston Herald that the stress may be affecting his heart and McHale may be brought in either as coach if they were rebuilding or GM.

112288

112288,

I find it hard to believe that all those places got it wrong, but then again, not really. They must get paid by the word, right or wrong. I would be interested to see what they said, if you could find one of the articles.

Did you read the referenced post that explains the situation with Pierce? I supported my argument with actual text from the Collective Bargaining Agreement. I stand by what I say to be the real truth of the situation.

I am trying to find a Roy Hobbs blog similar to the one he wrote last year. In the blog from last year, he broke down exactly what the Celtics' options were, player by player, rule by rule. His site doesn't seem to be available this morning, so I will look later.

If I find it, I promise to share.

gyso

Gyso,

Not trying to tell you are wrong, just did not want everyone to think I'm pulling my deductions out of thin air.

112288

Gyso,

ESPNBOSTON TODAY:

Rivers, Celtics face uncertain futures

Will Pierce cash out?
And then there's Pierce, who has the option to return at the not-too-shabby sum of $21.5 million or to terminate his contract and enter the free-agent bonanza.

Pierce also could opt out and re-sign with Boston at a number that's a little easier on the salary cap, while ensuring he finishes his career with the Celtics. Or he could stick with the $21.5 million option, then position himself for a final payday -- in Boston or elsewhere -- after next season.

Pierce seemed reluctant to even consider the team's cloudy future, but acknowledged the uncertainty of it all.

"I don't know what to think," Pierce said Thursday. "To be around a great group of guys, to build relationships … it's unfortunate, but players move on to other teams. It is what it is. I'm happy with the guys I was able to play with this year. I'd go to war with them any time.

"As far as next year, we'll go back to the drawing board and address some things, figure out how to get back over the top."

Chris Forsberg covers the Celtics for ESPNBoston.com. Follow him on Twitter.

112288

112288,

You may not have said that I was wrong, but you didn't say I was right either. Your reply was a little on the ambiguous side and I am trying to remove any lingering doubt.

I guess what I am trying to tell you that your conclusion is wrong about that one point, and I just did not want anyone to think that there is even a whisp of a chance that this can happen.

The article you offered up does not say that Pierce can opt out, wait for the Celtics to sign a free agent and then re-sign with the Celtics. Is this one of the 3-4 articles that you read several months ago?

If so, my analogy wouldn't have mentioned thin air. That would be rude. I would just say that you are trying to connect dots that are not there.

gyso

gyso, could the Red Sox sign Ray to one year at a reduced amount and turn around and trade him for a matching contract so that they'd gain a player, rather than nothing, in return for Ray? Or is there some moratorium on trading away players signed with Bird rights?

(I realize there could be issues of double-crossing Ray, etc. I'm just wondering whether it could happen legally.)

Sam

Gyso,

No this excerpt was in today's Boston Herald. Also don't try to read tea leaves into something. There was nothing subliminal in my response.

112288

112288,

If the article you directed to me just 6 minutes after you told me you were not trying to tell me I was wrong had nothing to do with our discussion about your statement that Pierce could opt out, wait for the Celtics to sign a free agent and then re-sign with the Celtics, then why did you post it at me?

gyso

Gyso, First off please reread my response. I said quote "Not trying to tell you are wrong, just did not want everyone to think I'm pulling my deductions out of thin air".

Second, stop trying to bait me. This is getting to be ridiculous and everyone is at the edge of the cliff after this loss.

112288

Sam,

We can sign-and-trade Ray to any contract amount allowed under the Bird rights exception. Of course, that would only happen with Ray's permission. That can happen any time this summer.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q78

Just after the trade deadline, many were upset that we couldn't get any value from his contract. I posted that this possibility (sign-and-trade) was still open as an option.

Sign-and-trades are usually used to boost a player's salary because Bird rights allow the old team to pay more for their own free agents than the new team. The new team may be saddled with having only the MLE to get a new player (us), so this gets around that limitation.

Ray won't be getting a raise, so the issue with him possibly being BYC doesn't enter into it.

Just as an example, we could sign him for 18 mil and trade him for Bosh, if Toronto wanted Ray and Ray wanted to go to Toronto.

That would make a lot of people happy, but I have an idea that Ray wouldn't be one of them.

It just dawned on me that this was a trick question. I don't think the Red Sox are bound by the NBA CBA!!

gyso

PS: I read elsewhere (sbnation) today that the Celtics core will remain intact and they will use the MLE and draft pick to give it a go one more time. That would be cool, IMO.

gyso,

Thanks. You answered my question with your Ray for Bosh example. I was just wondering whether there was some waiting period before they could trade Ray if they re-signed him. And I expect you're right that he would be unhappy unless maybe a third team were involved.

Sam

Interesting Article Celtic Hub

What you talkin bout Wyc?
By Brian Robb, CelticsHub.com @ June 15th, 2:08 pm Leave a reply »
You know it is going to be a good offseason of speculation once ownerships gets in on the act. That seems to be the case today as Wyc Grousbeck let a big 2010 proposition slip on WEEI’s Dale and Holley earlier this afternoon. Here is the full account of the declaration according to WEEI’s website (h/t: Celticsblog)

According to Celtics co-owner Wyc Grousbeck, they will have the financial flexibility to offer someone a full max contract next summer. Speaking with “Dale & Holley” Monday, Grousbeck did not give specifics, but he reiterated this fact by saying “there is a situation under which we could do that.” Several high-profile players who would command a max contract are currently set to become free agents in 2010, including LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, Amare Stoudemire, Dirk Nowitzki, and Chris Bosh.

Celtics Hub’s Take: I would have to echo Jeff Clark’s sentiments over at CB about this one. The situation is possible but only if Paul Pierce is willing to give up millions of dollars next year by opting out of his deal early at the end of this upcoming season. (He has an player option to opt out) After doing that he could take a massive paycut (think veteran’s minimum) that would free up enough money under the cap to offer a huge contract to someone in the loaded free agent class of 2010.

A move like this by Pierce would be a extremely generous goodwill gesture as well as a testament to his desire to bring more Championships to this town. Now could the C’s sign him to a veteran’s minimum for just that one year and the resign him after 2010 to another fat contract to reward him for his goodwill gesture? Perhaps….but the Celtics would likely be well over the cap at this point and would have to pay a fat luxury tax bill on top of the salary they give Pierce in all likelihood.

All that said, it does not even account for the fact the Celtics will need to pay up big to resign Rondo after this year since he will be a restricted free agent. Unlike Pierce, Rondo has not received his first big payday yet and likely will not be looking to take a hometown discount in order to further the Celtics’ championship chances. Rondo understandably will want to be paid and the Celtics will have to respect that which will further burden the team’s luxury tax situation if offering a max deal to someone during the offseason.

Final Verdict: In a perfect world, yes this situation is possible if Pierce opts out of his deal and all the team’s cards fall into place. Even if there is no validity to Wyc’s pronouncement, you have to be encouraged if you are a Celtics fans about the possibility of Paul taking a paycut next year to help the Celtics bring home another title to Beantown. Hell, if the Truth takes a paycut of about 18 million to help this team win a Championship, well I think the city of Boston will owe The Captain his own parade around Boston.

It may be a pipe dream for now, but it definitely is a fun one to fantasize about.

112288

I don't see Paul taking a paycut, but I do see Ray resigning for 10M.

gyso wrote:Sam,

We can sign-and-trade Ray to any contract amount allowed under the Bird rights exception. Of course, that would only happen with Ray's permission. That can happen any time this summer.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q78

Just after the trade deadline, many were upset that we couldn't get any value from his contract. I posted that this possibility (sign-and-trade) was still open as an option.

Sign-and-trades are usually used to boost a player's salary because Bird rights allow the old team to pay more for their own free agents than the new team. The new team may be saddled with having only the MLE to get a new player (us), so this gets around that limitation.

Ray won't be getting a raise, so the issue with him possibly being BYC doesn't enter into it.

Just as an example, we could sign him for 18 mil and trade him for Bosh, if Toronto wanted Ray and Ray wanted to go to Toronto.

That would make a lot of people happy, but I have an idea that Ray wouldn't be one of them.

It just dawned on me that this was a trick question. I don't think the Red Sox are bound by the NBA CBA!!

gyso

PS: I read elsewhere (sbnation) today that the Celtics core will remain intact and they will use the MLE and draft pick to give it a go one more time. That would be cool, IMO.

gyso,

Boston should re-sign Ray, use the MLE, use the draft pick and keep the team together for another run at the title.
I think they need to draft a big manfor long term, but if they are looking at Solomon Alibi, he will not help them much at all this year.
I am pretty sure Toronto would not want to pay Ray anywhere near $18m.

To all

The Celtics are at a crossroads because it does not seem likely that they can simply add a few pieces and go out next year with the current core playuers and win a championship.

Rondo, Perk and Baby are in place. The MCL injury to Perk should not prevent him from being ready at the start of the season.

The big three are courageous warriors but they may have fought their last battle together in game 7. There is really only one way to describe their performance both individually and collectively. It was inconsistent.

The first order of business is what to do with the 19th pick. With the potential retirement of Rasheed Wallace the need to get a young big would be my first preference if there is one available at 19 that can step in and help the team next season. My second option would be to secure an athletic wing player that can shoot, run, and defend.

Next the contracts for several Celtics will expire on July 1st. They include Ray Allen, Nate Robinson, Brian Scalabrine, Tony Allen, Marquis Daniels, Sheldon Williams, and Michael Finely. Also Paul Pierce could opt out of his contract, play the final year or negotiate an extension.

I want to share my thoughts of each of these players.

Ray Allen - I think there must have been a side agreement between the Celtics and Ray Allen. Ray wants to stay on this team and has more than enough good reasons. The medical care form his son is of utmost importance to him andn his family. The questions is how much is he worth and form how long. I heard some numbers flashed around in the $8-$10 million dollar range. Ray turns 35 in July and physically he was heathly this year but faced with having to play hard at both ends has taken its' toll. Against LA he was uop and down and other than the eye popping preformanc ein Game 2 Ray was simply not good enough to help us win, He averaged 14.6 points in the playoffs while shooting a horrible .367 from the field and .293 from behind the arc. Add in his meager rebounding and assists totals and you get the picture. Ok he had to guard Kobe Bryant but he had more help guarding Kobe than anyone else had guarding their man. His numbers woulod make me very hesitant to give him a big contract. I think something in the $7.5 milklion dollar range for 2 years would be the most I can see. However if Boiston somehow drafts a 2 guard that they belive can step in within a year and become a starter the offer to Ray could be closed to the MLE.

I would resign Scalabrine for the Veteran minimum.

I would resign TA for 2 years with a 10% raise.

I would let Daniels walk (if Doc comes back) he has no confidence in Daniels.

I would let nate Robinson walk.

I would offer Williams a vet minimum contract.

I would let Michael Finley walk or maybe groom him as an asisstant coach.

The two remaining players are PP and KG. It is quite posisble that KG could come back next year and actually play better than he did this year but make no mistake about it. His physical skills have deteriorated as he is no longer a reliable rebounder. Bigs need to rebound for Boston. The Celtics lost this series because neither Perkins or Garnett rebounded the ball well. There are two free agents that could help Boston into the future and I would make an attempt to move KG for Chris Bosh.

PP will porbably not opt out of his contract. He was also up and down in the series. He penchant for pounding the ball into the floor disrupted the Celtics offense. paul pierce has been a great player for boston but it may be time for him to go. I would make an attempt to trade him unless he was willing to sign an extension for a lot less money. PP RA and KG are not $20 million dollar players anymore.

In sum, what I have suggested here is that Boston blow the team up as soon as posible. This team needs to rebuild itself around the PG skill of Rajon Rondo. This team needs to be get younger and more athletic.

The Celtics will definitely need to land one of the top free agents to make this work and any of the big three are expendable. And also hit it out of the park with their 19th pick. Additional players need to be carefully selected from the pool of free agents and trades should be used to round out the team.

Lastly, if Doc bolts the Celtics need to find a coach that is a proven winner.

dboss

Good summation! Don't want to go into the twilight zone "Half Good but not good enough"! Let's take our medicine and reload.

112288

dboss, Agree on most, disagree on a few. Celts should resign Nate, drop Shelden, and sign Ray for $9M or less. Paul will most likely retire as a Celt, although he is not really compatible with Rondo's faster uptempo style of play. KG won't be traded, and next year he'll probably be healthier, though his rebounding was deficient too often. Of one thing I am certain, we need Danny to stay on as GM and be brilliant. Whatever Danny decides to do I'll trust.

Seems to be a lot of non information erroneous info posted here.

eg"All that said, it does not even account for the fact the Celtics will need to pay up big to resign Rondo after this year since he will be a restricted free agent. Unlike Pierce, Rondo has not received his first big payday yet and likely will not be looking to take a hometown discount in order to further the Celtics’ championship chances. Rondo understandably will want to be paid and the Celtics will have to respect that which will further burden the team’s luxury tax situation if offering a max deal to someone during the offseason." Gee, I thot Rondo signed a five year 55 million dollar contract at the beginning of this past season? What happened to that?

Just what are the parameters of PP opting out of his contract and signing a new one for the vet minimum? Aren't there rules in place to stop that kind of thing?

I was expecting this group of posters to know more than me, what happened? LOL

How about a new thread with only verified information on it? No wishes and hopes but facts?

We will know more about the direction Danny is intending with his draft. It will set the tone for the Summer of FA signings. With only six players under contract, this will be the biggest roster change in recent memory unless another blockbuster trade develops.

mulcogi,

I'd say that the article you mention was from July 15, 2009.

I'm just guessing, but the entire thing sounds about 1 year old. The first clue would be the part about Rondo. Yes, you are correct, Rondo did get his new 55 mil contract.

Seriously, who thinks Pierce would (or should) give up 20 mil to make a little more than 1 mil? That is what the vet minimum pays.

I know I don't.

gyso

gyso,
Thanx, I haven't been well the past few months and so more than one thing has slipped by me. I have been advocating resigning RA for 3 years at about 10million per. When PP's contract is up NEXT year, I would offer him the same, and a two year extension for KG at about the same. This allows them to have decent contracts as they move into their twilight years as role players, not big time starts. It is then incumbent upon Danny to fill the roster with competent players, something he has shown an ability to do, but perhaps not quite as well as the job he does drafting. Clearly this club will need help at all positions. The Big Three start next year or until there is a better fit, It may or may not happen next year, not a worry for me. Of course, I don't sign the checks. LOL I don't know why someone posted an article from last year but we all make mistakes. Clearly that info is not relevant to current conversations. Again, I think the draft will set the tone and will tell us much about Danny's mindset, barring a major trade. thanx again for clarifying and letting me know I'm not crazier than I am. LOL

Mulcogi,

I am sorry to hear that you haven't been well lately and I hope you are on the upswing.

I'm with you an Ray Allen. His minutes need to be limited in the regular season, though. I believe he led the Celtics in min/game, maybe someone will correct me if I am wrong. Those excessive minutes led directly to the issues he had in the finals, IMO.

I agree that the draft will set the tone. Will Danny go for a big or take the "best available athlete"?

We only have six players under contract after July 1, so there isn't much to work with there. Three of them are Pierce, KG and Rondo, who aren't going anywhere (I hope). One is Perk, who is damaged goods. One is Sheed, who may retire and the last is Glen Davis.

If Sheed is going to retire and is over 36 years old this coming year, I believe his contract is structured so that it gets added to the last year he played and comes off the books for this year and next. The entire "over 36" contract thing is a little confusing and I haven't totally gotten my head around it.

I could either read up on the rule in the CBA or watch it play out and learn it that way. I think I'll do the latter.

That leaves Glen Davis. He only makes 3.3 mil (only - LOL!!) Perhaps the Celtics can send him somewhere in order to move up in the draft, but that means trading a player with known NBA skills for a unproven player who may not pan out. That sounds like a bad business deal to me.

So, barring a major trade, what can be done? Not much.

There are a couple dozen or so teams (and their fans) that would be happy with what we have and what we can add via the draft, MLE and this and that. Count me among them.

gyso

Does anyone know what Perk's actual diagnosis and prognosis are?