Return of the Sixth: Gordon Hayward, Marcus Smart, and coming off the bench

https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/9/18/20862137/return-of-the-sixth-gordon-hayward-marcus-smart-and-coming-off-the-bench-boston-celtics



Return of the Sixth: Gordon Hayward, Marcus Smart, and coming off the bench




Both players have served as sixth men and one will have to do it again next season.




By wjsy and Jeff Clark  Sep 18, 2019, 8:00am EDT



Who makes the better sixth man: Marcus Smart or Gordon Hayward?

Jeff Clark: The good news is there is no bad choice here. Both guys are versatile winners with the right mindset and attitude. Each has proven that they can swallow their pride and both have the ability to come in and make a difference with the second unit - in particular running the offense.

So for me it boils down to preference and fit. In an ideal world I like to have Gordon Hayward starting and Marcus Smart coming off the bench. With Horford no longer on the team, I feel like Hayward might be necessary to run some of the first unit offense. In addition, with Kanter starting, there’s a potential need to put a lot of long, switchable bodies on the floor to help defend the paint without sacrificing the perimeter too much.

Bill Sy: I tend to agree with you. I think Hayward is going to get a ton of run at the 4, because he’s good at operating around the free throw line. But like a good starting pitcher, I’d want to establish my curveball early and Smart is the ultimate curveball. He’ll be able to take off some of the defensive pressure off of Kemba and cover opposing point guards and just set a general tone on both sides of the ball. If we learned anything from Team USA, it’s that Smart just makes things happen.

Jeff Clark: The elephant in the room is the report that last year younger players were giving the side-eye to Hayward’s starting role despite his continued struggles. Theoretically, that shouldn’t be a problem this year since Brown and Tatum are both starting and Rozier is gone. However, Stevens can’t be seen as forcing Hayward into a starting role if he doesn’t deserve it with his play. Gordon has been working hard on amping up his aggression this offseason. It would benefit everyone if he could hit the ground running this year.


Bill Sy: There’s nothing more I want to see than Hayward going back to Old G (are we allowed to used old Kyrie nicknames?), but the starting lineup could use someone that doesn’t need to have the ball to be effective. It’s also been reported that Hayward has been at Waltham working out all summer with rookies while Team Shamrock is in China for the World Cup. Do you think his contract status at all plays in to how Stevens uses him next year?

Jeff Clark: I hope his play dictates how Stevens uses him. He’ll have a year to make his case for a longer term deal. If that doesn’t pan out, he can always pick up his player option for $34M.

I guess for me it boils down to Hayward’s higher upside. Smart is pretty much a known (very valuable) quantity at this point. Hayward has boom or bust potential. If everything is clicking, he’s got a chance to be the 2nd or 3rd star on this team. If not, then he can shift to the bench and once again be a very well paid utility guy that occasionally drops 30 points on the Timberwolves.

Bill Sy: I’ve thought a lot about Hayward during the off-season and what the roster construction was like for him in Utah and how that’s affected the expectations game in Boston. The Jazz ran a lot of motion offense around him, but he was such a big part of its engine. With the Celtics, he’s played next to Kyrie Irving and now next season, with Kemba Walker not to mention Al Horford, Jaylen Brown, and Jayson Tatum. With so much talent around him, I’m not sure he’ll ever need to be a “superstar” again.

Jeff Clark: Oh, I’ve already lowered my expectations. Barring a change of scenery, I don’t see him getting back to his Utah days. However, I think he could be a Chris Bosh in Miami or Kevin Love in Cleveland level 3rd star. (And yes, I understand that we don’t have a LeBron James in our equation.)

Bill Sy: As long as Marcus Smart doesn’t become Mario Chalmers, I’m all for it.



bob
MY NOTE:  I posted this but I believe this is a false argument.  Why does one have to come off the bench?

Lineup 0 off the bench:  Kemba, Smart, Hayward, Tatum, Kanter.  Bench:  Brown/Romeo, Williams/Poirier, Wanamaker/Edwards.  A strong starting 5, inexperienced bench.

Lineup 2 off the bench:  Kemba, Brown, Tatum, Kanter, Theis(?).  Bench:  Smart/Edwards/Wanamaker, Poirier/Williams, Hayward

I believe Brad will create starting lineups that matchup with our opponents, that has been his habit for years now and trying to make believe he won't do that again this year is not very realistic.  After that the question becomes, what does the bench look like after the matchup?  We have a lot of youth or limited NBA experience.  Poirier has a few years of pro play behind him, but he's an NBA rookie.  At the minimum we are carrying 3 rookies (Edwards, Romeo and GWill).  RWill has potential but he only played a grand total of 283 minutes last year.  Brad Wanamaker, an older player but just entering his 2nd NBA season, played 343 minutes last year.  Think about that.  4 of our first 5 players off the bench, so we're talking about if we are 10-deep, assuming Smart and Hayward both start, have a combined NBA experience of 626 minutes.  Jaylen has plenty, he's the veteran of this group, but Poirier, Williams, Wanamaker and Edwards only have 626 NBA minutes between them all.  What makes sense to me is having TWO of our top 6 players (Kemba, Brown, Smart, Hayward, Tatum, Kanter) coming off the bench, probably still playing 25+mpg, to stabilize the bench and promoting a bench player depending upon matchups (Theis or Poirier or Williams or even GWill if he shows he can do it) to the starting 5 so they can be surrounded by veterans.  You can hide a weak player among 4 good players but 1 good player cannot elevate 4 marginal ones.  Smart (or Brown) and Hayward off the bench can elevate the 3 younger bench players. It will be a very frustrating season if our starters do a great job but, as soon as they sit down, their bench obliterates all the good they produced because our bench are a herd of deers (attribution to Charles Barkley and his description of 'rookies')


.

Looking at lineups in the traditional sense, I think the core starting lineup is going to end up Walker, Smart, Brown, Tatum and Kanter with Hayward in the 6th man/first wing off the bench role. Adjustments for various opponents to develop as the season progresses.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's not long before Edwards and R Williams figure prominently in a rotation/high minutes reserve situation.

NYCelt wrote:Looking at lineups in the traditional sense, I think the core starting lineup is going to end up Walker, Smart, Brown, Tatum and Kanter with Hayward in the 6th man/first wing off the bench role. Adjustments for various opponents to develop as the season progresses.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's not long before Edwards and R Williams figure prominently in a rotation/high minutes reserve situation.

I agree here and have been saying that both Smart and Brown can play UP on defense. By that I mean that the Lineup of Katner, Brown, Tatum Smart and Walker will not be a real defensive liability against most NBA starting lineups.

Hayward's ability to run the offense with the second team is just as much a reason to use this rotation to me as well. He WILL be the main point man then and would actually see better stats in this role ( not to mention just as many minutes as he would as a starter)