Jayson Tatum, Luka Doncic show difference between star & superstar in back-to-back games

by **bobheckler** Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:21 pm

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2020/08/jayson-tatum-luka-doncic-show-difference-between-star-superstar-in-back-to-back-games-john-karalis.html

Jayson Tatum, Luka Doncic show difference between star & superstar in back-to-back games

Updated 10:11 AM; Today 10:11 AM

Jayson Tatum, Luka Doncic show difference between star & superstar in back-to-back games W322BOMY5RDTPNUJJR5PMC6KWE

Dallas Mavericks guard Luka Doncic, center, drives between Boston Celtics forward Jayson Tatum (0) and guard Brad Wanamaker, right, during the second half of an NBA basketball game in Boston, Monday, Nov. 11, 2019. The Celtics defeated the Mavericks 116-106. (AP Photo/Charles Krupa)AP

By John Karalis | JKaralis@masslive.com

On Sunday, we saw the difference between a star player, and a superstar.

Jayson Tatum scored 7 points during a decisive 12-0 run to end the third quarter of the Boston Celtics closeout win over the Philadelphia 76ers. 16 of his 28 points came during a 10-and-a-half minute stretch beginning with about two minutes left in the third quarter that turned the game to Boston’s favor.

He hit big shots. Back-breakers. Contested 3-pointers. The types of shots where the other team just shrugs and says “nothing you can do about that.”

Add in his 15 rebounds and two blocked shots and Tatum put together the type of game you want to see from a star player. He put together the type of game that gets a guy onto an All-NBA team. That’s a guy who gets MVP votes.

Then Luka Doncic took the floor and showed what a superstar looks like.

The Dallas Mavericks game against the Los Angeles Clippers immediately followed the Celtics-Sixers game, and all Doncic did was put up a 43 point, 17 rebound, 13 assist performance while hitting the game-winning, buzzer-beating 3 with his team down by 2.

Doncic, playing on a sprained ankle that nearly kept him out of the game, didn’t just make tough shots, he manipulated the game. Where Tatum reads defenses to make passes to set up teammates, Doncic puppeteered the Clippers into going where he wanted in order to create assists.

“He reads those situations well,” said Mavs head coach Rick Carlisle. “He’s such a smart player. He sees things before other people see them. That’s one of the reasons he’s so special. He’s got the skill set, the strength and size but it’s also the way he computes the game. He sees the game in 6G, not 5G. It’s another level beyond what most people see.”

There is an inherent ease to Doncic’s game. You could see it immediately when he walked into the league. He feels things that Tatum is still learning.

If Tatum is the piano prodigy who picks up lessons quickly, Doncic is the wunderkind who sits at the keyboard and teaches himself to play by ear.

And this is not to say that Tatum can’t or won’t take more steps forward into superstardom himself. The things he does on the floor are amazing. He has learned a lot over his three years in the league and what we’re seeing right now is the culmination of applying those lessons to his game and an incredible amount of work towards improving.

But Doncic has it. He’s Will Hunting solving theorems that other geniuses have to work to figure out. His existence doesn’t minimize the genius of others in the room. It highlights how inexplicably naturally the game comes to him.

Tatum has a lot of growth left in him, and we may see a day where Tatum and Doncic are taking turns burying each other in an NBA Finals series. There might be a day where they fight each other for an MVP trophy.

But on Sunday, in back-to-back games, the difference was pretty clear. Tatum might get there someday, but Doncic already plays the game at another level.

Jayson Tatum is a star player, but Luka Doncic is a superstar.

bob
MY NOTE: I'm not ready to draw the line on Tatum's ceiling but, I have to admit, Luka is pretty freaking amazing and I doubt Tatum will ever have as complete a game as him because I believe point guards are born, not trained and Luka is a born point guard.

.

by **dboss** Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:15 pm

Luka is the more complete player offensive player because of his point guard skills. Yes he had an amazing game the other night. He still has flaws in his game on offense though. I guess if Tatum put up 31 shots like Luka did he would easily go for +40

I think Tatum is clearly the better shooter at this point in his career. Luka is the better distributor. However numbers can be deceiving, Tatum has a 3.3 A/TO ratio and Luka is at 1.9 through the 4 playoff games.

And Jayson is the better defender.

Luka shot only 31.6% from deep this year while Tatum shot 40.3% and Tatum is better from the line.

So I do not see a real distinction in allstar vs superstar between the two players. They both have a ways to go. We too often want to look at 2 players so we can say this guy is better than that guy. But we often do not ask better at what?

by **bobc33** Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:27 pm

Jason is one of the best players in the league at a young age. Whether he is in the top 3, the top 10, the top 20 to me is immaterial. He should be a great player for another decade and hopefully we sign him to a max contract for max years. I am tickled pink he is a Celtic.

Luka is a transcendent talent. Who knows how far he can progress from his already ridiculous feel for the game. If he continues to improve from where he is now and wins championships he’ll be one of the all time greats. At this point I simply enjoy watching him play more than any other non Celtic.

My hope is the two of them have long healthy careers with championships galore for both of them, and in the year 2032 we look back and say how blessed we were to watch Jason win 6 rings and Luka 5.

by **jrleftfoot** Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:13 pm

dboss wrote:Luka is the more complete player offensive player because of his point guard skills. Yes he had an amazing game the other night. He still has flaws in his game on offense though. I guess if Tatum put up 31 shots like Luka did he would easily go for +40

I think Tatum is clearly the better shooter at this point in his career. Luka is the better distributor. However numbers can be deceiving, Tatum has a 3.3 A/TO ratio and Luka is at 1.9 through the 4 playoff games.

And Jayson is the better defender.

Luka shot only 31.6% from deep this year while Tatum shot 40.3% and Tatum is better from the line.

So I do not see a real distinction in allstar vs superstar between the two players. They both have a ways to go. We too often want to look at 2 players so we can say this guy is better than that guy. But we often do not ask better at what?

+1......I have a feeling that Jayson's body type will hold up better than Luka and he doesn't have to dominate the ball to score . All your points are , imo, well taken.

by **dboss** Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:48 pm

foot

I do think that Bob33 makes a strong case about transcendent talent. That however is really about his offensive impact and his value in making his teammates better. He is superior to Jayson in that area. Luka has tremendous feel for the game as it relates to 4 guys on the court with him. Jayson at times has tunnel vision and playing at the point is not a natural position for him.

Everybody is in awe of Luka and well they should be. He is only 21 years old and is having his way with the best out there.

Tatum is as well and he is doing it at both ends.

I think that Luka plays the game on offense like Lebron James. Tatum reminds me of Kevin Durant.

by **swish** Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:09 pm

dboss wrote:foot

I do think that Bob33 makes a strong case about transcendent talent. That however is really about his offensive impact and his value in making his teammates better. He is superior to Jayson in that area. Luka has tremendous feel for the game as it relates to 4 guys on the court with him. Jayson at times has tunnel vision and playing at the point is not a natural position for him.

Everybody is in awe of Luka and well they should be. He is only 21 years old and is having his way with the best out there.

Tatum is as well and he is doing it at both ends.

I think that Luka plays the game on offense like Lebron James. Tatum reminds me of Kevin Durant.

dboss

I like your LAST LINE COMPARISON - with James being the offensive triple threat and Durant just failing to measure up to James in the assist category. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out over the next 10 years or so for Doncic and Tatum .

swish

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:29 pm

Tatum is more active and faster than Durant, he’s more like Kobe the way he uses footwork to create separation, a 6’9” version of Kobe. Luka is like Jason Kidd and Larry Bird combined and should be first team all NBA this year. Luka just had a transcendent game, Tatum might have one coming up soon.

by **Ktron** Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:02 pm

dboss wrote:Luka is the more complete player offensive player because of his point guard skills. Yes he had an amazing game the other night. He still has flaws in his game on offense though. I guess if Tatum put up 31 shots like Luka did he would easily go for +40

I think Tatum is clearly the better shooter at this point in his career. Luka is the better distributor. However numbers can be deceiving, Tatum has a 3.3 A/TO ratio and Luka is at 1.9 through the 4 playoff games.

And Jayson is the better defender.

Luka shot only 31.6% from deep this year while Tatum shot 40.3% and Tatum is better from the line.

So I do not see a real distinction in allstar vs superstar between the two players. They both have a ways to go. We too often want to look at 2 players so we can say this guy is better than that guy. But we often do not ask better at what?

Great points

by **dboss** Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:33 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:Tatum is more active and faster than Durant, he’s more like Kobe the way he uses footwork to create separation, a 6’9” version of Kobe. Luka is like Jason Kidd and Larry Bird combined and should be first team all NBA this year. Luka just had a transcendent game, Tatum might have one coming up soon.

Cow I do not see those comparisons. Bird was a great shooter. Luka is not. Luka is a point forward like Lebron. JASON kidd is too small for a comparison with Luka and he is not close to Luka in terms of his ability to score. Players that are triple double threats are very different in the way they put up those numbers.

It will be very interesting to watch Luka's development to see if his skills are title worthy.

by **RosalieTCeltics** Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:20 pm

Luka is a special talent, there is no doubt about it. But, I think Jason is just hitting the tip of the iceberg in his growth as a shooter and defender. He has proven that he is a lot smarter than this time last year. He is still growing, his body has yet to fully mature. One thing about Jason, he stays on the floor with 3 fouls and seems he begins to play smarter and smarter.

I think they are both special, but I am sticking with JT, we have yet to really see his best.

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:51 pm

dboss wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:Tatum is more active and faster than Durant, he’s more like Kobe the way he uses footwork to create separation, a 6’9” version of Kobe. Luka is like Jason Kidd and Larry Bird combined and should be first team all NBA this year. Luka just had a transcendent game, Tatum might have one coming up soon.
Cow I do not see those comparisons. Bird was a great shooter. Luka is not. Luka is a point forward like Lebron. JASON kidd is too small for a comparison with Luka and he is not close to Luka in terms of his ability to score. Players that are triple double threats are very different in the way they put up those numbers.

It will be very interesting to watch Luka's development to see if his skills are title worthy.

Good calls dboss, on Kidd they have similar vision and passing instincts, your right Luka much better scorer. Luka actually has more guard and ball handling skills than Bird, I’m amazed how well he battles and rebounds, that is Bird like, 9 rpg for a not great leaping wing is phenomenal, that’s instinct and toughness. Luka has amazing clever finishing and passing ability close to the basket, Bird had those traits too.

by **cowens/oldschool** Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:26 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Luka is a special talent, there is no doubt about it. But, I think Jason is just hitting the tip of the iceberg in his growth as a shooter and defender. He has proven that he is a lot smarter than this time last year. He is still growing, his body has yet to fully mature. One thing about Jason, he stays on the floor with 3 fouls and seems he begins to play smarter and smarter.

I think they are both special, but I am sticking with JT, we have yet to really see his best.

Jayson has his own unique stride and glide, not as dynamic a running form as Jaylen, but he can dart in and out quicker on angles of attacking on drives and end to end. That one righty finger roll finish on the left side past Embid was breathtaking, very very few players can make that kind of play past Embid. Tatum and Jaylen are both blurs when they turn on the jets, to have 2 young wings that can attack the rim like that. Jaylen also had a completely breathtaking move, a finish right over and through both Giannis and Lopez right at the rim on the right side that very very few could make over 2 7 foot shot blockers!! Gonna be great to see how much further upside both J’s have, some credit should be given that both are such dynamic and still improving impact defenders....

by **dboss** Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:59 am

Luka has 2 things to work on on offense. Improve 3 point shooting, cut down on turnovers (partly due to decision making) He is already close to being unguardable one on one.

On defense he still has a long way to go.

Net Rating for Luka this year was one of the poorer defenders on a team that is not a good defensive team. His Net Rating was 5.3 (116.7 on offense and 111.4 on defense)

Jayson Tatum had a Net Rating of 10.7 (114.2 on offense and 103.5 on defense) His Net rating was the best on the team (not including Tacko who has played very little)

Luka is not as good as Tatum except in creating shots for his teammates (stop there) Aside from Tatum being a better shooter Tatum has developed into one heck of a defender and he plays multiple positions on both sides of the ball.

I think both of them will be top 10 players in a few years.

by **cowens/oldschool** Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:05 pm

I think both are in the top 10 right now, Luka should be first team all NBA this year. Tatum really came on as an all NBA type the last month of the season. He averaged 29 ppg and 47% from 3. I see future NBA defensive recognition for Jaylen and Jayson.

by **swish** Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:11 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:I think both are in the top 10 right now, Luka should be first team all NBA this year. Tatum really came on as an all NBA type the last month of the season. He averaged 29 ppg and 47% from 3. I see future NBA defensive recognition for Jaylen and Jayson.

I agree that both are exceptional young talents and both should have long outstanding careers. Doncic seems to have some very special talents that only a few others have. Only 20 years old and already (based on 36 minutes per game) a 30 point per game scorer with an outstanding talent for getting his baskets without assist help from his teammates - as only .171 % of his field goals were assisted on - and yet he still found time to log 8-10 assists and rebounds per 36 minutes a game. Yes its only for 2 years and there's many games to go but those are numbers reserved for Lebron James. It will be interesting to see if Tatum and Doncic will continue to round out there games to the point where both are worthy of comparisons to Lebron.

swish

https://stathead.com/tiny/qpd3I

swish

by **cowens/oldschool** Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:33 am

Just wanted to add when I mentioned Jason Kidd, it’s also because of the load Luka takes which is huge for any player and shockingly huge for such a young player. Jason Kidd was a workhorse, carried such a huge load night after night, and got a huge share of triple doubles in his time. Living in Jersey saw a lot of Kidd in his heyday and went to a ton of Nets games at the Meadowlands for free because my son went to basketball camps that were sponsered by the Nets organization. Great stat by dboss on the net rating, while Luka is 2 points higher on offense, Tatum is 8 points better on defense, which overall is huge. Glad defense has still been tracked and included in this era of 3’s. Luka is more a big highly skilled point in the body of a strong wing, while he doesn’t have the pure athleticism of some of the great wings in the past, either did Larry Bird and he always took the best athletes, wings, PF’s to school, didn’t matter, he was that good.

So while I love the net rating stat, from my eye test, I still see Luka doing more and having a bigger impact with more responsibility which is why I think he is first team all NBA this year. He does so much and everything for that team, Tatum has so much scary talent, unstoppable now when he gets in his zone, can score in so many variety of ways, a 6’9” better shooting version of Kobe. That’s lethal, he and Jaylen are
pure attack both ends do it all wings. They are a joy to watch and having both is such a great advantage to have over all the other teams, except the best teams in the L, which are also stacked at that position. They are still growing obviously and have many great years ahead of them, gonna be great to see us vs Mavs for many more years....

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Jayson Tatum, Luka Doncic show difference between star & superstar in back-to-back games

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