Extend Gordon Hayward

I understand that Hayward has not panned out on the court as everyone (including himself) had hoped, but most of his sub-max level player performer on a max salary has been due to unfortunate injuries.

Agreeing with most board members that this player is not worthy of his current salary moving forward, it is not time to eliminate him from the team.

The Cs have huge cap issues, but still need good solid veteran players to mix into the rotation to help Tatum, Brown, Smart, etc for the next few years. I think that Hayward is clearly still able to play NBA level basketball, and I also like how he fits in with this group of players. When he is on the floor, the team usually plays at a higher level where just getting a cheaper veteran may not help the team as much.

So, to get to his salary and an extension while looking forward. I would suggest that the Cs ask him to renegotiate the last year of his current contract while adding two or three years to his contract. Perhaps offer him a four year deal for $80 M. In my opinion, this amount helps the Cs immediately and compensates Hayward rather well as he gets further along towards the end of his career.

it would be a good scenario for both teams. However is Hayward worth $20M per year?

I would argue if Hayward had been signed to another team we would all agree it was perhaps the worst Max deal signing in the recent NBA.

a player HAS to be available, especially a player with a Max salary. Many of us laugh at how many games Embiid misses, well see which of the two have played more games in recent years?

with all that said, I would be fine with the deal you propose. I see no reason that Hayward will take $34M off the table however next year. I mean he does have 4 children to take care of now after all....LOL.

kdp,

Yes, I know that the Haywards now have four children and that money could be very tight in their house. The Haywards will likely never have a problem at the end of any month to have bread or milk issues.

However, I have to report that in our house, we raised five kids on a school teacher's salary that never was quite near $20 M per year.

kdp,

On a more serious basketball note, if Hayward likes playing where he is, he may decide to check his potential future pay checks and be very happy with $20 M per year for the next 4 years.

wideclyde wrote:I understand that Hayward has not panned out on the court as everyone (including himself) had hoped, but most of his sub-max level player performer on a max salary has been due to unfortunate injuries.

Agreeing with most board members that this player is not worthy of his current salary moving forward, it is not time to eliminate him from the team.

The Cs have huge cap issues, but still need good solid veteran players to mix into the rotation to help Tatum, Brown, Smart, etc for the next few years.  I think that Hayward is clearly still able to play NBA level basketball, and I also like how he fits in with this group of players.  When he is on the floor, the team usually plays at a higher level where just getting a cheaper veteran may not help the team as much.

So, to get to his salary and an extension while looking forward.  I would suggest that the Cs ask him to renegotiate the last year of his current contract while adding two or three years to his contract.  Perhaps offer him a four year deal for $80 M.  In my opinion, this amount helps the Cs immediately and compensates Hayward rather well as he gets further along towards the end of his career.

What may be good for the Celtics may not be good for Hayward.  There is no way Hayward will walk away from a $34 million pay day.  He would be pretty dumb to do that.  The biggest risk for him is a combination of injury and diminished skills because he will be 31 after his current 4 year deal ends.  If he is able to produce at a rate comparable to what he did this year he can go into free agency and still command a 3 year $60 million deal.  

The Celtics went into a hole on their investment 5 minutes into his first game in green.  Their ROI is still in the negative column.  This year he missed 33 games including the playoff.  I would think Boston should be very weary of his health prospects for 4 more years.  The only way they should consider a new contract for him is if it would make it easier to trade.  If he opts in they could still trade him during the season because an expiring contract like his would be a big plus for a team looking to free up cap space.

There are so many ways this thing could go so we can only speculate.  I would trade GH in either case and use his value to secure a player that we need going forward.  

I think a trade with the Pacers should really be pursued.  I like Sabonis or Oladipo.  I do not like Miles Turner because he does not rebound well enough.

Clyde,

5 kids? You get a medal or something for that. I'm still trying to figure how to handle 1!

The Hayward situation will be among the more intriguing mysteries coming up. No doubt he's considered damaged goods, but as you point out he is still a wing with an above average game. He may just be content to play the current deal out. If he can show something close to what he was, he might get himself one more decent deal here or elsewhere. Not max, but sizeable.

In order to trade him in the final year of the deal, I think Boston would have to add some sweetener. A first-rounder at least.

Regards

I agree with NYCelt that Hayward has little trade value on the open market.

But hey, IF the Pacers want to give us Sabonis for him, I would be just fine with that one!!


I do hope both the Celtics and Hayward can salvage the deal he signed and tha'ts he's willing to stay for a contract more in line with his value now. Time will tell.

My wish here is that he opts in and renegotiates this contract. Either that or ask for them to try and trade him to Indy. I believe he likes playing with this team, and, and I repeat AND, if he can get healthy, things will work to the Celtics advantage if he renegotiates. I know many, many people would love to see him gone. Even I as as staunch Hayward supporter, was frustrated those last two games. I wanted so much more from him than he was able to give. Now we hear that he really should have not even been on the court, so that makes it even worse.

If it were not for bad luck, Hayward would have no luck at all. It is truly sad what has happened to him since coming to Boston. I am sure there are many times he wishes he never left Utah. He truly is a unique player who plays the game with his head and skills. It is sad that so many seem to have so much hate for him Read Facebook before games, there are people there who have no idea what they are talking about, saying he is a bum. What fools

Even if GH were to walk, that 34 million would NOT be available to sign other players, correct?

I'm not sure extending Gordon would be a great move for either Boston or GH. Brown and Tatum are emerging as regular all stars. Marcus Smart isn't going anywhere. Romeo was technically a lottery pick. We have 3 1st round draft picks, and we know how Danny loves wings. Gordon is still highly skilled, but given our logjam at the wing, we will not get a good return on those skills. I suppose its possible he could sign for something cheap enough to make it worthwhile, but that would be bad for him. He is still a good player - he deserves dollars and minutes.

Best case is if we were to trade Gordon to another team who has a similarly skilled but redundant player. That seems sort of unlikely. All in all, since we would not get his money if he walks, having him here next year is not such a bad thing. He will be expensive and won't get the role he deserves, but no doubt he makes the team better.

I love Gordon even though I was sorely disappointed with him in the playoffs. Him for Sabonis? Hell yes, but it's unlikely Indy would do that. safer play bc would br Gordy for $80M on a renegotiated 4 year deal, if he would take it. One thing is for s uh re. If he is healthy next bc season, he will be playing his as off to sign a last big contract somewhere. He may just bet on himself and not renegotiate. If he stays for less money, he could be a big plus for us. With a center we would be contenders.

RosalieTCeltics wrote:My wish here is that he opts in and renegotiates this contract.  Either that or ask for them to try and trade him to Indy. I believe he likes playing with this team, and, and I repeat AND, if he can get healthy, things will work to the Celtics advantage if he renegotiates.  I know many, many people would love to see him gone. Even I as as staunch Hayward supporter, was frustrated those last two games. I wanted so much more from him than he was able to give.  Now we hear that he really should have not even been on the court, so that makes it even worse.

If it were not for bad luck, Hayward would have no luck at all.  It is truly sad what has happened to him since coming to Boston.  I am sure there are many times he wishes he never  left Utah.  He truly is a unique player who plays the game with his head and skills.  It is sad that so many seem to have so much hate for him  Read Facebook before games, there are people there who have no idea what they are talking about, saying he is a bum.  What fools

I'm not sure why anyone would hate him. The guys been nothing but a model citizen anywhere he's been. I didn't think he was worth the contract he got, but I do understand why Ainge signed him at the time. The drafting and quick development of Tatum ( in no small part due to Haywards' injury) made the signing a bad one for the team ( in hindsight ).

Many now see the Kemba signing that way I would add. One always needs to be careful when signing anyone to a max deal, as that effects what you can do in the future cap wise for the duration of those deals.

it may surprise you that I would like to see Hayward stay here. But at a contract that is more in line with his current value. I see him as filling that 6th man role off the bench and running the second team as a PERFECT role for him now. I do wonder if nagging injuries may follow him the rest of his career , though I certainly hope not.

I see no reason for Hayward NOT to pick up his option next season. Tatum's next contract will kick in the season after next (much like Browns new deal didn't start until this coming season, even though he signed the extension this year). I also see no way anyone will trade for Hayward after he picks up his option, unless there is a team he agrees to sign an extension with and in that case he can just sign with them once his contract is done and he;s a free agent the next season.

I really do not think GH is satisfied being the 3rd or 4th option on this team.  This is clearly not the same team that it was when he signed here as a free agent.  GH still has enough skills be be a #2 option on another team.  That could be an incentive to leave.

He did miss some games because of his foot (ankle) injury.  But he still played in 52 out of 72 regular season games.  I just do not see him falling off the wagon yet.  At the same time any team should be concerned about  signing him up for anything more than a 2 year deal.  

His value this year translated into 17.5 PPG on a very efficient 13.5 shot attempts.  He shot 50% from the field and 38.3% from deep and 85.5% from the line.  But his value goes way beyond his shooting efficiency.  He also averaged 6.7 rebounds and 4.1 assist.  The only SF in the entire NBA with comparable across the board numbers was Kris Middleton.

https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/season/2020/seasontype/2/position/small-forward/table/offensive/sort/fieldGoalPct/dir/desc

What this comes down to is the availability factor.  The Celtics know more about the foot injury than anyone.  Danny is the one who has to make the decision about extending his tenure as well as how much it is worth.  GH has the final say because he could opt out and go to free agency immediately, or opt in or opt out and resign with more years or opt out and sign new deal with another team.

Know this, based on his numbers the Celtics are a much better team with him than without him.  He is producing the same level of numbers as the #2 on the Bucks.  That is pretty good.

We really need to consider all sides and not lock ourselves into a narrow space of thinking. If GH is as smart as I think that he is he will happily opt in for $34,000,000 because everything after that is circumstantial.

Bob


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I can only HOPE that the Pacers would be willing to trade Turner and Oladipo for Hayward and Kanter!!

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2020/10/gordon-hayward-contract-why-his-34-million-option-is-a-fake-number-why-covid-could-make-him-opt-out.html



Gordon Hayward contract: Why his $34 million option is a fake number & why COVID could make him opt-out



Updated 10:39 AM; Today 7:00 AM


By John Karalis | JKaralis@masslive.com



Everything you’ve heard about Boston Celtics wing Gordon Hayward’s opt-out is wrong.

Alright, not everything, but it’s not actually what it seems.

You have heard that he has a $34.2 million player option that he’s weighing this offseason. That’s a lot of money, but it’s also, basically, a made up number. It’s not really what he’s going to get if he opts in.

Here’s why.

The league and the players split Basketball Related Income, or BRI. That includes television money, tickets, and anything else directly related to the game. The league puts out an estimate of what that is going to be before the season, sets a salary cap based on that number, and we all get to enjoy basketball.


Players divvy up their half of that pie. So while we hear specific numbers about how much a player makes, the amount of money that actually shows up in their bank accounts is actually a percentage of their portion of BRI, based on their contract.

“The salary cap is really just sort of a construct,” explained Ryan Bernadoni on the Locked On Celtics podcast (embedded below). Bernadoni is a salary cap expert and former Celtics blogger. “(If a) player is gonna make $5 million, they don’t actually get $5 million, necessarily. What they get is $5 million divided by all of the salaries paid in the season. It gives you a percentage, right? That’s .07% of total salaries times half of revenue. And that’s what you get.”


So essentially, the player salary that you see reported isn’t the exact real number. It’s the basis of a formula to show how big a slice the player gets. The bigger the salary, the bigger the slice. The final number is usually pretty close to the published salaries, but it’s not always exact.

To ensure that the split is correct, both players and owners pay into an escrow system. That pool of money is then used to even things out if one side ends up getting too much.

“They take 10% of every player’s check and they put it (aside)” Bernadoni explained. “That 10% is enough where under normal circumstances, you can adjust it up or down and give them the right amount of money for the year.”

These are not normal circumstances. Players normally get some or all of that money back, but in May, the league began withholding 25% of players' checks because of the league’s COVID-19 hiatus. The league’s revenues took a big hit, and that additional withholding is probably money the players probably won’t see.


This brings us to Gordon Hayward.

The league and players union haven’t negotiated a new post-COVID deal yet, but whatever system they put together is likely to have another abnormally large escrow withholding. If the league can’t get fans into seats, or if they can only seat a reduced capacity crowd, the money flowing into the league won’t be enough to cover the salaries we see. The new negotiated escrow number could be as high as 25-30% to make sure the split is even.

Hayward is looking at a roll of the dice here.

By opting into $34.2 million, he’s ensuring that large number will give him a significant piece of whatever the players split of BRI is, but if the league keeps the entire 25-30% escrow payment, Hayward could lose out on more than $10 million of what he was expecting.

However, if he opts out and signs long-term, he can take the one year escrow hit on a lower number and hope things go back to normal. As his contract progresses, the escrow situation goes back to normal and he would end up keeping more of his money after this season.

“If you’re Gordon Hayward...I can think, well, I could bypass this year, I can opt out and re-sign for a longer term at lower dollars,” Bernadoni said. “The possible advantage is, if you’re gonna lose 30% of your salary in one year, it’s better to lose 30% of 20 million than 30% of 34 million.”

The longer-term deal with the Celtics would guarantee him a few years at, maybe, a bigger number than he’d probably get on the open market, but would help the Celtics significantly by keeping them under the luxury tax line this year. They would be in a position to reward him a little because, ultimately, he’d be saving them a lot in the long-run. He’d not only save them tax dollars this year, but he’d help stave off the much more punitive repeater tax for another few years.

If Hayward thinks he can go earn another monster deal that will outdo whatever the team is offering, then he’ll probably opt in and deal with it. No one is crying for an athlete trying to decide how many millions of dollars he’s going to make and how to structure it. In the real world, this isn’t a problem at all.

But in the world of NBA basketball and your favorite team trying to compete for a championship and build around two young stars like Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown under this salary cap structure, there is a lot for Hayward and the Celtics to consider. The league’s new financial reality has turned a perceived no-brainer into a shell game.

“As this sort of funny money we’re talking about here, it’s not the best year to be making the most money you’ll ever make in your career.” Bernadoni said. “So maybe you push some money around and, and it’s not going to make up the whole difference, probably. But if you want to stay in Boston, if you know you like it here, you don’t want to risk getting traded to the Magic or the Kings or whatever, then there are also financial considerations related to COVID that come into play.”


Bob


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