Post Game Thread - vs Raptors, Away 1/4/20

[bobheckler]

I would call this one of DBoss' "signature games".  I realize Toronto is starting off icy cold this season, they were 1-4 heading into last night's game, but they have pretty much the same talent and coach as last year (minus Gasol, plus Baynes).  We, on the other hand, are down our starting back court (Kemba and Smart) as well as our new veteran back up point guard (JeT) and no Gordon.  In other words, compared to the team they played in the playoffs last year we were severely depleted in ballhandlers and facilitators.  We ended up winning by 12, but the game wasn't that close in the 2nd half.

Gary Washburn @GwashburnGlobe
yesterday
Kyle Lowry: "Right now we have no swag to us. Right now there's nothing to us. Teams are looking at us like. 'all right, let's go eat.' That's not a good feeling." #Raptors

Despite being down all those floor generals we still had 19 assists on 41fgm.  Not that great, but not as bad as I would have expected.

Tatum was flowing last night.  Not only was he shooting well but he got himself fouled and went 13-13 from the line.  2 blocks.  Might be the best game of the season for him so far.

Brown with an off night, if 19 points on 7-16 can be called "off" in this splendid year of his.  4 turnovers, though.  I realize he's trying to do more on that front with the loss of Gordon but that is perhaps the last area of his game that still really needs work.  He's averaging 3.1apg and 2.9TOpg.  He has a nostril, maybe two, above water.

Sean Grande @SeanGrandePBP
about 6 hours ago
Trouble 0-7 doing work.. NBA - Most Field Goals 1. BROWN, BOS 86 2. TATUM, BOS 77 3. Beal, Was 73 4. Sexton, Cle 70 5. Curry, GSW 69 NBA - Most Points 1. Curry, GSW 224 2. BROWN, BOS 215 3. Beal, Was 214 4. TATUM, BOS 210 5. Young, Atl 200

Didn't hurt Curry he went off for 62 points on Sunday.  Take that crazy game out of the mix, or just cut it in half, and Brown rules. I'm just saying...


Tremont Waters got the start since that's a Brad strategy:  when he knows a little used player will get significant minutes due to injuries/illnesses he likes to start them so that weak link is surrounded and supported by our strongest links.  Waters did ok, not great.  A HORRIBLE shooting night, 1-8, but when I see players like Waters what I look for isn't shooting.  Does he move the ball, does he find open men and is he preyed upon on defense?  I didn't see where Tremont Waters was beat up on defense.  A bit surprising, I guess, but the back-to-the-basket-post'em-up game in the NBA is almost extinct.  I'm not sure Lowry or FVV would even know how to do that.  5 assists and 4 turnovers but I didn't see any turnovers as being particularly egregious.  I wasn't yelling "get him outta there!".

Our bench, which was 29th out of 30 last year in scoring, scored 60 points last night and that's why, with all due respect to Jayson Tatum, the Game Ball in my opinion belongs to P-Rabbit.  His first 20+ point NBA game.  32 minutes off the bench.  23 points on 8-13, 2-4 from 3, 8 assists and 3 turnovers.  I am really enjoying Payton Pritchard play.  That's a rookie?!  He's using veteran moves it takes players years to develop.  He is completely, totally fearless and NOT in awe.

Marc D'Amico @celtics
yesterday
Grant Williams says of Payton Pritchard not getting to play in a Summer League before his rookie season, "Payton doesn't need anything. He's a vet."


Jared Weiss @JaredWeissNBA
yesterday
Payton Pritchard is the king of unintentionally hilarious sentences in his answers: "Honestly, each and every night is going to be a different night."

Brian Robb @BrianTRobb
yesterday
Payton Pritchard's 23 points against the Raptors is the highest point total for any rookie in a game this season. Pretty impressive work for the No. 26 overall pick.


Sean Grande @SeanGrandePBP
yesterday
Celtics with 23 points and 8 assists in the first half of their rookie season... Larry Bird - November, 1979 Payton Pritchard - January, 2021 End of list.


Brian Robb @BrianTRobb
about 7 hours ago
Payton Pritchard and Jayson Tatum have a +24.0 net rating this season when the Celtics play them together. That's the 6th(!) highest rating in the NBA among duos that have played 100+ minutes.


Jay King @ByJayKing
yesterday
Brad Stevens said the Celtics are going to ask Payton Pritchard “to do a lot right now. Fair or unfair to him, he’s going to have to be consistent for us to have a chance to be a good team.”




Semi with his 2nd really good game in a row.  He's finally looking like he belongs.  12 points, 8 rebounds in 30 minutes.  

Grant Williams, for all the grief he gets on this board, with 14 points on 5-9, 3-4 from 3 and 5-5 from the line.  6 rebounds.  He also was tasked with trying to defend Pascal Siakam in the low post, a very difficult assignment because of his length.  I had the Toronto feed last night.  They were very complimentary about GWill's defense against "Spicy P" as they call Siakam.  Now some of that niceness is because they're Canadians but Canadians will still damn you with faint praise if they're not really into you (Americans are FAR more direct and pointed in their criticisms).  They were appreciating GWill's timely 3s and defensive effort last night against one of their key players.  Grant Williams flat-out balled last night.


Jay King @ByJayKing
yesterday
Grant Williams: “Honestly it just comes down to playing basketball. Sometimes I get in my own head in focusing too much on the role that I’m in."

And what a night for the other Williams kid!  (I know, I'm gushing a lot in this post, but this was an absolute Next Man Up and Do Your Job game and they did it).  11 points and 15 rebounds, 6 of them my beloved offensive rebounds.  That's half our team's 12 total.  The Time Lord arrived just in the nick of time.  What I liked most about his game last night is that he hit all 3 of his fritos.  I realize it is WAY too early to make a judgment on this but last year he averaged 64.7% from the line.  If he can get and keep his ft% up over 70% he isn't a candidate for Hack-a-Williams.

Tom Westerholm @Tom_NBA
yesterday
Per Cleaning the Glass, with Jayson Tatum and Rob Williams in the game (and no other bigs on the floor), the the Celtics have outscored opponents by 36.7 points per 100 possessions in 139 possessions.


Sean Grande @SeanGrandePBP
yesterday
Robert Williams had 15 rebounds in 20 minutes Monday night. The last Celtic to do that? Wayne Embry - February, 1967


Speaking to the decline of the big man in today's NBA we won this game, convincingly, with only 2 points from our starting bigs.  10 rebounds, but only 2 points from Theis.  They don't really have centers, they have Baynes and Boucher, but that's the league now.  Centers are anchors, they're not the boat.  Crazy.

We outrebounded them 56-37.  Game.  Aside from RWill we got solid rebounding from Tatum, Thompson, Semi and GWill who all got at least 6 rebounds each.

2nd game of a b2b, both on the road, and we won both.

Jared Weiss @JaredWeissNBA
yesterday
Brad Stevens: "I see these guys every day. So my data is not just game nights. I see how they work. I see what they do pre-practice. I see what they do during practice. Our evaluation as coaches is not based on just the 14 minutes somebody plays in the game. It's the whole work."


https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401267257




Bob


.

[Shamrock1000]

Man PP2.0 is crafty!! Reminds me a little bit of the original PP in that he has terrific body control combined with great timing. You can see how he might be in the air, holds his shot an instant longer than expected as the defender flies by, and then re-adjusts to hit the shot. A pet peeve of mine is that in the NBA lexicon, "athletic" means speed and jumping ability. What about coordination and body control? That to me is a type of athleticism - a type that ages much better than explosiveness.

[dbrown4]

I don't know about dboss or anyone on site for that matter, but I was not expecting any kind of game like what transpired last night vs. TOR or against any team in the league this early nor for quite some time.  Probably not even up to KW return plus one month, whenever that's going to be.  Especially with all the injuries once again.  But I should have known better. 

Again, it is critical not so much how Brad comes out of the gates Wednesday with the starting line up so much but how quickly the game transpires back to what we just saw.  For Brad and his actions, I don't see any other way for him to respond that he saw what he just saw than by changing the starting line up down to 1 Big.  I'd probably be more inclined to go with TT since he's the in your face Big.  Theis still can't seem to get the respect from the refs that TT has already gotten and earned.  Then you go 2nd Tier and have EB-P-Squared to just exhaust the competition by pulling the double team off J-Squares.  

But this is all in Brad's hands.  I literally can't wait for Wedensday's starters!  It's really going to say a lot about where Brad's mind is and how entrenched it is.  

db

[dboss]

Bob

Thanks for getting this one started.  This was a signature game on several levels.  The Celtics started off slow but the speed of the game changed when Semi and Peyton rotated into the lineup.  PP tied the game at 36 in the second after Boston had been down by double digits.

What I saw was a change in our rotations with respect to having Theis and Thompson in there together for extended minutes.  Scals mentioned it several times during the game.  The Celtics are more effective with a a more mobile unit.

Our much maligned bench played outstanding basketball at both ends.  Grant Williams who is no stranger to criticism from me had a great game at both ends of the court.  Do we still want to dump Semi?  Has something clicked for him because the last two games he is playing excellent basketball.  And how about  11 points and 15 rebounds from RW.  You can actually see his improvement YOY across the board.  We had a rare 4 players off the bench who scored in double figures.  Our rookie of the year, Peyton Pritchard, led all bench scoring with 23 points to go along with 8 assists.  

This team does not look like a .500 ball club but I do not want to get too giddy just yet.

Jayson Tatum dropped 40 last night while Jaylen only had 19 points.  It is somewhat amusing that a 19 point effort by JB is now looked upon as a below average game.  

We won this game mainly because our bench smoked their bench 60-29 and out rebounded them,  33-14.

The Raptors look like a shadow of their former selves while Boston looks like a team that has moved on from the GH departure and the injury situation with KW.

This early part of the season provides the Celtics with great opportunities to figure out which lineups maximize our defense and offensive efficiencies.  

Wednesday night the Heat will present a bigger challenge and Boston needs to be well prepared to play against a lot of zone defense.  One last observation.  Last night the Raptors tried to trap PP but they could not do it.  The draft gurus said he was not quick enough.  The draft gurus were dead wrong.  PP is destined to become our starting point guard one day.  He has a complete set of skills and I love his defense.  He gets into people.

[dboss]

db

Can't wait for the Heat game either.

The Heat are still in the laboratory as they are still trying to figure out what starting unit looks best.

The 4 everyday starters have been Bam, Butler, Herro and Robison but they cannot figure out who should be the 5th starter.  So far 5 different guys have started for them including Iggy (2)  Avery Bradley (1)  Meyer Leonard (1) Harkless (2) and old friend Kelly Olynyk (1).   Interestingly, Goran Dragic, has not started one game.  He has been coming off the bench while averaging 23 MPG.

Predicting matchups will be difficult.  One thing we learned from the bubble series against them is that they need to play a ton of zone defenses and they will mx them up to keep you confused.  They move the ball well and like to make cuts to the basket.  Their PNR offense can destroy you.  

The Celtics have to be prepared to attack their zone by moving the ball.  On defense we need to switch everything with special emphasis on a 3rd defender rotating over to prevent Bam from getting to the rim off PNR actions.  That is their bread and butter.  I think TT can provide a physical presence and we will need help defense from RW.  Overall, you have to play outstanding defense to stop them.  

I expect to see PP in the game early and often.

[dboss]

With MS nursing a sore thumb and Teague limited with the sprained ankle I look for PP to be inserted into the starting lineup. Waters needs to be ready to get us 10-15 BU minutes at the point.

Look for either Semi or Grant to also start for us. We have to stop playing from behind.

[dbrown4]

Yep, overloading the zones by moving the ball, not JaT iso half court shots running the clock down, will lead to open looks and spell trouble for MIA, busting the zones and forcing 1 on 1.

Won't be able to do that with TT and Theis on the floor at the same time. Should be a good one!

db

[cowens/oldschool]

I had thought if the 2 J’s did not have an efficient night every night, we would struggle. Well Jaylen had a slight off game for him now that he has turned into such an efficient 28 ppg scorer. Amazingly 4 bench players had breakout type games PP, Semi, the Williams brothers and some young guy Tatum was also pretty good. The teams defense really came together after the 1st quarter too and liking the direction this team appears to be heading.

Semi is running and finishing better, GWill appears to be adding more offensive moves, keep it up guys, both obviously play better playing off 2 J’s. PP is a stud, couldn’t believe the finish over Siakim. This kid does not appear overly quick or athletic, but has a great feel and vision, just knows how to play his game despite his limitations. RWill with the kind of defensive/rebounding game we’ve been waiting for, had a couple boards he had to multiple jump to coral the ball, Rodman like. If we can keep getting these kind of performances, 23 points for PP, 15 boards for RWill, efficient shooting and defense from Semi and GWill, from the bench, we will be a really dangerous team. With 2 J’s growing into their roles of 2 way superstars that can carry us and make the others better, let’s hope the bench can do more of this.

[dbrown4]

"This kid does not appear overly quick or athletic, but has a great feel and vision, just knows how to play his game despite his limitations."

Cowens/oldschool, If I didn't know any better and this was back in the early 80's, I would swear you just described the guard version of Larry Bird!

db

[cowens/oldschool]

"This kid does not appear overly quick or athletic, but has a great feel and vision, just knows how to play his game despite his limitations."

Cowens/oldschool, If I didn't know any better and this was back in the early 80's, I would swear you just described the guard version of Larry Bird!

db

Larry Bird/Eminem that’s nasty

[worcester]

How about this for a starting lineup even after Kemba returns?
PP or MS - 1
Jaylen - 2
Jayson - 3
Semi - 4
TT - 5 ....that's a very strong defensive unit. Very strong, With PP starting we'd also have solid scoring too.

How about this for our starting lineup next year?
PP or MS- 1
RL or AN -2 ---any chance either of those two could blossom into starting material?
Jaylen -3
Jayson -4
RWill - 5

With Kemba coming off the bench this year his minutes will be less, thus protecting his knee, and we will have an explosive 2nd unit. Pair him with
MS - 2
AN or Romeo if/when he gets healthy -3
GWill - 4
DT or RWill - 5 ...That's a decent second unit.

[worcester]

"This kid does not appear overly quick or athletic, but has a great feel and vision, just knows how to play his game despite his limitations."

Cowens/oldschool, If I didn't know any better and this was back in the early 80's, I would swear you just described the guard version of Larry Bird!

db

That could describe Luka too.

[dbrown4]

worcester,

Me rikey very much. Now that's a formidable, fear-invoking team with the top option.
Unfortunately, kinda puts Kemba in the GH zone. Big contract coming off the bench. But not my problem!

db

[bobheckler]

One point I forgot to make in my opening post is this:

The Time Lord played all 12 minutes of the 4th quarter and had 11 points, 12 rebounds in that 4th quarter.  Of his 6 offensive rebounds 5 of them were in the 4th.  

Those who are on the Game On! thread know that I try to copy-and-paste the stats at the end of each quarter (a tedious job since I'm not as technically proficient as GYSO and can't remember how to do screen copies).  The reason why I do that is precisely so I can be precise in my appraisals.  This is a MONSTER last quarter.


Bob

.

[worcester]

MONSTER!

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