Post Game Thread, vs Raptors - Away, 12/5/22

[bobheckler]

The Raptors were feeling pretty good about themselves for a while.  At home, up 10, we're on a SEGABABA and we're without Al, Malcolm and of course RWill.  Quite understandable, and quite wrong.  This is a very, very different team than the one they used to own just a few years ago.  They're still a pain, though, because they run on everything.  

Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach
yesterday
Tatum: "We do a great job of not panicking, and we do a great job of responding more often than not."


Sean Grande @SeanGrandePBP
about 3 hours ago
Last year the Celtics started 2-5. This year, they've started 20-5. Boston's 5th loss last year came on November 1st. Their 20th win on January 10th.


Blake has really accepted and done well in his "play every 2 weeks" role.  13 and 8 and just solid veteran play.  We even get the occasional flying dunk from yesteryear from him.

Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach
yesterday
Blake: “I figure if I dunk once a game people will stop acting like it’s a miracle.”


Just to round out our bigs for this game we got great production out of Luke again.  11 points and 7 rebounds in 16 minutes for the Green Kornet with 6 of his 11 points coming in the 4th.  Sometimes I love being wrong.  He is really showing me he can play.  This is why Brad Stevens is an NBA GM and I'm sitting in a hotel room in Manila writing about what a pleasant surprise Brad's fair haired boy is.  It's remarkable that our #3 and #4 centers were able to do a good enough job that that position wasn't a clear liability.  I like Chris Boucher, he always plays well against us.  In the same number of minutes as Kornet he had 8 points and 9 rebounds.  Both had 3 offensive rebounds.  Luke Kornet played even, both overall and on a /minute basis, against a legit NBA back up big (Boucher is listed as a PF but nobody on Nick Nurse's team is listed as a C.  He's 6'9" with a 7'6" wingspan.  RWill is 6'8" with a 7'5" wingspan and he's our center).  Asked 2 months ago if I would rather have Boucher or Kornet for the first big off the bench behind Horford I would have sprained some fingers typing 'BOUCHER!!!' too quickly and hard.  Now?  I'm not so sure.  Boucher's getting $12.6M this year, $11.7M next and $10.8M the year after that.  Luke's getting $2.1M this year and $2.4M next.  Bang for the buck Luke's a steal.  

Tatum with a 31 and 12 double-double.  Some dumb turnovers early, where he intentionally drew a double team but then didn't pass out.  Nevertheless he straightened up and flew right in the 2nd half.  Just 11 at the half on 4-9 and 3 turnovers.  He missed his first shot of the 3rd to go to 4-10 and then went on a run to end the 3rd at 10-18, a 6-8 17 point 3rd.  And it was the 3rd that turned this game around.  Down 6 at the half our 35-18 3rd put us in the catbird's seat and it was Jayson Tatum who led it.


Jaylen with a 22 point, 8 rebound and 8 assist night.  This is the closest to a triple-double I think I've ever seen from him, the 8 assists being unusual.  As pointed out by Cowens on another thread his turnovers have been zero for the last two games.  Let's see what happens out west this week.

Chris Forsberg @ChrisForsberg_
yesterday
Second straight game without a turnover for Jaylen Brown (had one re-scored as block in final minute vs. Raptors). Totals since his last TO (4th Q vs. MIA): 92:27 floor time 76 PTS 11 AST


It was funny.  Blake Griffin took a shot to the chops trying to take a charge from either Siakam or Boucher (no whistle) and Marcus Smart took it personally.  After Blake got hit Smart went nuts with floor burns and steals.  His 3pt fg% is up to 34.6%, which is still below league average but isn't as bad as the beginning of the season.


Raptor fans can't complain about the refs.  They were getting every possible break from them and ended up with a 30-21 edge in ftas.  

What blows me away is that we took 90 fgas vs 85 for them.  Considering how they run on everything you'd think they'd get a lot of fgas.  Our turnovers were comparable, 13 for them vs 11 for us, 6 steals each.  

Speaking of running, they had 16 fast break points in the first half.  They ended up with 20.  GREAT halftime adjustment by Joe to put that fire out.  Once the Raptors stopped getting easy baskets things started going downhill for them fast.  I don't think they had any fast break points in the decisive turnaround 3rd quarter.  37 points in the 2nd, when they were running but only 18 in the 3rd when they weren't.

Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach
yesterday
Joe Mazzulla, what'd you say at halftime? "Nothing."

Sorry, Joe, but I don't believe this.  Man, and we thought Brad was humble to a fault.  Joe takes it to a whole other level.

We also only had 2 of our 11 turnovers in the 2nd half.  Cleaned up our act and cleaned up the score.

Only 19 assists on 39 fgm for them.  Who's their point guard?  Nobody, really.  Siakam had 7 and their guards (VanVleet and Trent Jr.) had 4 combined.  They're a team of long wings that love to run but half court sets need floor generalship and they don't really have one.  

20-5 and, with the b2bs we've been having, down our starting wtf you want to call Al.  We are seeing amazing resilience from this team and astonishing depth.  Brad took us from 'zero depth' last season to as deep as any team could ask for this season (he types from his hotel room in Manila).

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401468510





Bob


.

[dbrown4]

Great analysis, BobH. Spot on. Hope things are going well in Manila!

I can't add much, which you all know what that means from me.

Here's what I saw and what I'm seeing.

First off, I read the line two days ago then on game day. The first time, it read BOS(-1.5). I was a little offended by that given this was TOR and they are currently borderline making the playoffs/play-in in the standings. I was at least glad that the oddsmakers gave BOS the nod. Then I checked it yesterday on ESPN. TOR(-1.0)! OK, wazzupwitdat?? Then cooler heads prevailed and I realized it was a SEGABABA for us, Al's out, Malcolm's out, etc. OK, I can live with that. TOR can't be that good at .500. Keep in mind that I believed this team would go 8-0 on this trip. Almost no question. I'm still po'ed we lost to MIA in OT. Then, of course, I realized that the line has nothing to do with anything really. It's the number the oddsmakers come up with that maximizes the most money crossing the table. While Vegas initially sets the odds/lines, the betting public finishes the task with their money and its direction. Simple supply and demand.

OK, to the game. Well, TOR played like TOR(-1.0) for quite some time, maybe even better. Eventually leading by 10 at one point. So maybe everyone knew what the odds were talking about and showing. But there is something funny about our team and it's happened in just about every game we've played so far. There is a light switch somewhere. We don't know actually when it is turned on, but we see the results of it very quickly each time. But make no mistake. It does get turned on every game. And when it gets turned on, EVERYTHING changes. Last night, as BobH points out, it was the 3rd quarter. And, just like Boston's play selection, which I wrote down last night for a quarter at least, it's as random as a random number generator. That may be how we're going to win this whole thing. At some point, the opposing team says WTF, the legs tire and become like noodles and they can't catch their breath, our 3's start falling in rapid succession, and before you know it, your 10 point lead is now erased and you are down 15. It's like a cobra just sitting around watching its prey bumble around in the neighborhood until the cobra sees and decides the right moment to strike and end the life of its victim. And its over just like that. You're not getting another chance. You're not going to get the lead back. You may have a run, but it won't be anymore than that. You may even outscore us in the fourth quarter/win the quarter. But you still won't win the game. It's over. A couple of years ago, we couldn't and certainly didn't feel that way. Too much evidence to the contrary.

We didn't have to win that game last night. As a matter of fact, we probably should have lost it going in given the circumstances. The oddsmakers were right. But that's not what happened. And that's what makes this team extremely, highly dangerous to the rest of the league. Even if injuries return, and there will be some more over the course of the season, we're seeing some of the pure genius from CJ in his systematic removal of players for night's off in this stretch...It doesn't matter who's out. Oh we're effing winning. We're effing going to Amsterdam! (OK, a little Pulp Fiction modification, but you get the point!)

I like, I'm sorry, LOVE the Blake Griffin Show. He is priceless. And dang, he takes a charge better than Marcus and I believe by sight is more accurate than Marcus in getting those fouls called. And with that as pointed out above, that motivates Marcus. Clearly, a guy who needs no more motivation. The rest of the league really doesn't want to see that at all. Oh, and don't let me forget RWIII is in the wings and should literally be jumping out of his skin to get on the court and close the door on the lane for opposing offenses. I'm surprised he hasn't gotten out there on the court in his street clothes trying to get in the game, similar to Jimmy V looking for Derrick Wittenberg in 1983 vs. Houston. Or better yet him having to be restrained from going on the court when a fight breaks out. It's coming. And we all can't wait. Even a less than perfect, post-surgery, fully recovered RWIII is going to be devastating to opponents. "Well, that takes care of driving down the lane. Anybody else have any effing ideas how we can score and not lose our legs by mid-3rd quarter?! JESUS!!" That's what you will hear.

Luke Kornet...we're almost getting tired of saying his name and asking for forgiveness! He's doing great in his role, is really having fun out there and still no explanation for the Eagle's Wings!! Unless someone has heard anything. Ktron, what's that all about?!! Inquiring minds want to know!!

There's that word again to describe CJ. Humble. And in the other thread I wrote don't mistake humbleness for an implied lack of confidence or lack of boldness in action(s). Quite the opposite. Pray life filters over into every facet of your life. CJ is in my handful of people that have their faith doing all the talking for them. I'm spot on about this. Enjoy this about CJ. He is very rare. Watch CJ's post game youtube again and the fact that he thought he'd missed Mary, Joseph and Jesus at the Celtics game. He wasn't being funny or trying to be funny. He was as serious as a heart attack. The girl asking the questions had a nervous laugh and clarified. Very telling about this man's faith and how serious he is about it. Great to see in this day and age.

Well, like I said at the start, I didn't have much to add. Good point to stop for now!

db

P.S. Huge game on the horizon. Here we go. It is the equivalent of 80's Celtics vs. Lakers regular season games, IMHBAO. Clash of the Titans. This will be the ultimate test for this team up to this point of the season and could be a preview into the Finals.

[cowens/oldschool]

Hey guys I want to toot my own horn for a bit, after our last loss to the Heat, I had said I still see a lot of instances where Jaylen makes very good passes too and that his turnover issue can be corrected. Well he just had b2b games with zero turnovers. I would also say he is a lock for all NBA, especially with 3 teams; and even if oldschool only 2 teams, he would still be a lock IMHO.

What a treat it is to have 2 do it all all-NBA wings that are just reaching their prime. Kudos for BS for knowing better than us and knowing how to build around them. Kornet is grabbing/ripping rebounds in traffic now, something I thought he was incapable of doing. He has good hands, good enough to catch lobs and dunk, you can’t teach 7’2”. He protects the rim. We saw a glimpse of Kornet and Al together, I thought it looked great. We’re obviously winning, Joe obviously knows a lot more than me, guess he likes the other line ups better. I still think it could work though, Kornet could still play his game, clogging the lane and rebounding, and Al has the ability to stretch the floor.

Love the way we are using load management, obviously Al not playing in b2b; and Brogden getting the night off last night, with Smart getting the night off vs Nets. It’s a grueling schedule, great way to keep our guys fresh/healthy and force different combinations to play together. Raptors are a very good team, they are a mirror image of us, with fast long guys that can play multiple positions on both ends. Siakim, Anunoby, Barnes all very good players, they just don’t have a superstar, but they are a tough team and a very tough team at home. We took over the game in the 3rd with 2 J’s leading the way and Smart making some timely contributions too. Tatum went off for 17 points, was in one of his zones. Jaylen with some great bully ball, we took it to their best defenders. Love the pnr from the top of the key with Smart and either J leading to the J receiving the ball right at the rim. That play puts so much pressure on the defense and often gets us to the line. Great win shorthanded in a b2b against a strong team.

[dboss]

Thoughts

Luke Kornet has proven to be more than just a serviceable center.  There, I've said it.  One must always seek atonement for their incorrect observations.

3rd quarter 35-18 run by the Celtics was tantalizing.

Bob, hope you are enjoying your stay in Manila.  Last year JB recorded 2 triple doubles.  By the way, Marcus is now shooting 35.7% from deep.  His career high is 36.4%  (2018-19)

Blake 'Moth Ball' Griffin still has productive game in him.

Watched a post game interview with Kevin Durant following our win over the Nets.  He said the Celtics are really deep.  He sounded quite despondent.   He knows now for sure that the Celtics own the Nets.

Floppy head (Derrick White) is 2nd on the team in pace at 101.06  Who's first?   Sam Hauser at 101.07  The ball never sticks in their hands.

It took Jayson a while to find his game.  It is pretty cool that we have 2 elite level players.  Either can carry the team.

With the Celtics off to a 2-0 record on this extended road trip, anticipation can only grow to a fever level pitch as we wait for the return of Timelord.

[dbrown4]

dboss,

My fever temperature is currently at about 105 degrees!!

db

P.S. You are forgiven!! You don't even have to ask for it!

[dboss]

dboss,

My fever temperature is currently at about 105 degrees!!

db

P.S.  You are forgiven!!  You don't even have to ask for it!

db

I did not exactly ask to be forgiven.  I am voluntarily impeaching myself.

It is a very long season still ahead of us.  There are a few things about this team that is similar to last year's team

Guys are missing games due to injury or illness along with normal PTO days

We have another first year coach

New teammates have joined the group and the process of identifying and integrating their roles seems to be an annual protocol.

One deviation from all of this is the STATUS that the Boston Celtics carry with them and the widely help view that they are the top target in the NBA.  No one has any doubt that you cannot play down to the Celtics and expect to come away with a W.  Everybody knows how good they are and you can bet that the return of Timelord will up the ante and cause teams to fold their hands.

Scalabrine who by the way is still a PIA at times during his meaningless banter, talked about how Boston bends the opponents defense.   Every team can do that but what separates the Celtics from everyone else is their ability to bend the defense multiple times during one possession.

Our offense makes pretzels out of opposing defenses.

[bobheckler]

Dboss,

"Luke Kornet has proven to be more than just a serviceable center.  There, I've said it.  One must always seek atonement for their incorrect observations."


We're sharing the same pew, brother, we're sharing the same pew.


Bob


.

[bobheckler]

Ben Rohrbach @brohrbach
about 7 hours ago
The Celtics could lose every game from now until Jan.9 and still be right where they were when they went on a tear last season. And they get a paradigm-shifting defensive force back soon.


Bob


.

[dbrown4]

You're right dboss.  I should have said "if" you were asking for forgiveness...You were bravely getting out in front of the bus first!  Kind of like all those NCAA schools that get the initial "Gotcha" from headquarters and then the schools immediately impose their own sanctions before further investigation and punishment hoping to keep the damage to a minimum!

Regardless, UDAHMAN here always!!

Yeah, when Boston makes you switch 3-4 times in succession very quickly in a possession and you accompanied this with continued passing and ball movement, the result is either a wide-open practice 3 or a backdoor dunk/layup.  Sort of a modified Princeton Offense but now used by the superior team. I can live with those results.  In a league where big scoring has returned thanks to a rule change or two, defenses just aren't smart enough to keep up with who's on who and more times than not we see one of our guys wide open somewhere after about 10-12 seconds into the shot clock.  By "shortening" the shot clock, you create more possessions.  When you create more possessions and when you shoot 50/40/90, you easily get scores in the 130's+.  QED  (there's an easy Latin one for you, worcester!!)

However, Boston defense is smart enough.  I'd like to know how we are communicating our defensive switches and what we are saying to each other once we see the pick coming so we don't wind up with two of our guys on the same dude and thus one of their guys wide open somewhere.  I'm talking to my son tonight!!

db

[dboss]

db

It is not just 3-4 times switching per possession. It is 3-4 times per each bend in the defense.

In other word, the swishing brings balance to a defense that has been bent but then Boston can bend it again and again.

That is freakin special.

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